RPGM A Struggle with Sin [v0.6.1.1b] [Chyos]

[JennyTreibel]

How come enemies jump from Level 6 Imawyn to Level 20 Brigands in one quest? I was doing the Bandit questline and got smoked when I wanted to rescue Lyvia. Guess that's what I get for playing without a guide...

I assume it's because those Raven mooks were added much later, but I find the idea of a 14 Level jump between two quests insane. I'm only Level 10 and have no real idea how to gain these levels? The quest log even has quests that are level 30. Is doing quests enough to gain so many levels?

 

[Archaon11111]

I assume it's because those Raven mooks were added much later

That's what happened yeah

I'm only Level 10 and have no real idea how to gain these levels?

Best way pre brigand XP nerf is to farm the cultists under the temple or those plague bests in the swap. Remmeber to always have Tia with you and quick battle in the options settings on to make things faster.

 

[Evangelion-01]

How come enemies jump from Level 6 Imawyn to Level 20 Brigands in one quest? I was doing the Bandit questline and got smoked when I wanted to rescue Lyvia. Guess that's what I get for playing without a guide...

I assume it's because those Raven mooks were added much later, but I find the idea of a 14 Level jump between two quests insane. I'm only Level 10 and have no real idea how to gain these levels? The quest log even has quests that are level 30. Is doing quests enough to gain so many levels?

You can fight stronger enemies both in Rumah storyline dureing the defence and in Arianna Quest in the Secret Cult hideout.
Also EVERY Enemy can Upscale with MC Level till a certain max Level.
Brigands max Level is Level 35 for example.
You are warned to progress to fast for exactly that reason.

 

[JennyTreibel]

You can fight stronger enemies both in Rumah storyline dureing the defence and in Arianna Quest in the Secret Cult hideout.
Also EVERY Enemy can Upscale with MC Level till a certain max Level.
Brigands max Level is Level 35 for example.
You are warned to progress to fast for exactly that reason.

Well, I try to gain a few levels from those cultists. At best I could kill only one of those brigands at my current level.

I did not notice any warning beyond a heads up from Tia that a fight will be up ahead. I certainly did not expect enemy levels to downright triple. It wouldn't be so bad if these quests were completely unrelated, but they happen back to back. Not to mention, checking on the guards seemed urgent narratively.

I hope such difficulty spikes get revised once the game is finished because to me it feels a bit sloppy design-wise.

 

[Ottoeight]

How come enemies jump from Level 6 Imawyn to Level 20 Brigands in one quest? I was doing the Bandit questline and got smoked when I wanted to rescue Lyvia. Guess that's what I get for playing without a guide...
I assume it's because those Raven mooks were added much later, but I find the idea of a 14 Level jump between two quests insane.

Why? because for plot reasons you'd better complete the whole Emily's family saga (Emily + Frisha + Mira's first half - until she becomes a nun) before Emily's second kidnapping.

I'm only Level 10 and have no real idea how to gain these levels? The quest log even has quests that are level 30. Is doing quests enough to gain so many levels?

Quoting myself: "as ZaRRR said: best strategy is 'always be a hoarder'. Everyday".

 

[Ottoeight]

Well, I try to gain a few levels from those cultists. At best I could kill only one of those brigands at my current level.

I did not notice any warning beyond a heads up from Tia that a fight will be up ahead. I certainly did not expect enemy levels to downright triple. It wouldn't be so bad if these quests were completely unrelated, but they happen back to back. Not to mention, checking on the guards seemed urgent narratively.

I hope such difficulty spikes get revised once the game is finished because to me it feels a bit sloppy design-wise.

You can't blame the Author for being unprepared and rash. This is a classic RPG: you MUST raise points and collect and amass items. Collect/buy as much healing potions as you can.

If you're talking about killing cultists while saving Arianna, the best idea is: hide behind barrels and run. As fast as you can. Don't fight and break the walls with your pick.

You might check the walkthrough for the cultists' quest.

 

[zARRR]

Well, I try to gain a few levels from those cultists. At best I could kill only one of those brigands at my current level.

I did not notice any warning beyond a heads up from Tia that a fight will be up ahead. I certainly did not expect enemy levels to downright triple. It wouldn't be so bad if these quests were completely unrelated, but they happen back to back. Not to mention, checking on the guards seemed urgent narratively.

I hope such difficulty spikes get revised once the game is finished because to me it feels a bit sloppy design-wise.

Chyos already stated that a “rework and balance update” it’s in his plans, in fact it’s already a possible update that patrons can choose in the polls.
Basically he will rework some animations, make balancing changes and other mechanical things, plus some additional content.

 

[Ottoeight]

Chyos already stated that a “rework and balance update” it’s in his plans, in fact it’s a possible update that patron can choose in the polls.
Basically he will rework some animations, balancing stats and other mechanical things, plus some additional content.

Well, but sometimes the quests should be a bit difficult. They can't be that easy. We've got the cheatbook, too.

 

[Evangelion-01]

Well, I try to gain a few levels from those cultists. At best I could kill only one of those brigands at my current level.

I did not notice any warning beyond a heads up from Tia that a fight will be up ahead. I certainly did not expect enemy levels to downright triple. It wouldn't be so bad if these quests were completely unrelated, but they happen back to back. Not to mention, checking on the guards seemed urgent narratively.

I hope such difficulty spikes get revised once the game is finished because to me it feels a bit sloppy design-wise.

Unlikely... considering the narrative you could have expected that the enemies that were able to kill the guards are strong.
There is a dead guard just at the entrance of the camp which is supposed to work as warning.
Also Brigands are 2nd strongest mob enemies in the game right now... only Bandits of Anyas story are stronger... I'll have to admit that for her Quest there is no such warning on difficult combat ahead though

 

[zARRR]

Well, but sometimes the quests should be a bit difficult. They can't be that easy. We've got the cheatbook, too.

Of course, it’s an rpg after all.
But as Chyos says in the beginning; it’s still a work in progress, and some things are expected to change or rework.
Still it’s admirable that he made quite the smooth game while other infamous rpg are kinda a buggy incomplete wasteland.
For the difficult spike, I think it’s understandable Anya’s update to be a late game one since for plot reason, but there is no actual warning, it’s the typical Open world evil enemy that one shots you, and you understand that the path you have taken, it’s a late game one.
And Eva beat me again on the point I was making for the brigands.
ASWS is more like old standard rpg, especially this difficult spike element, ut reminds me of old FFs (the good ones tho).

(I have no complaints on the brigands honestly, since I beat them at level 10 this time eheh (mostly luck).)

 

[JennyTreibel]

Why? because for plot reasons you'd better complete the whole Emily's family saga (Emily + Frisha + Mira's first half - until she becomes a nun) before Emily's second kidnapping.

Already did. Had sex with all

Unlikely... considering the narrative you could have expected that the enemies that were able to kill the guards are strong.
There is a dead guard just at the entrance of the camp which is supposed to work as warning.
Also Brigands are 2nd strongest mob enemies in the game right now... only Bandits of Anyas story are stronger... I'll have to admit that for her Quest there is no such warning on difficult combat ahead though

Narratively Imawyn is no slouch either, but she sits at level 6 while no name mooks are at least Level 19. And both fights are part of the same questline and happen back to back.

Imagine beating the Chieftain Son from Rumah and then Gurtak's men in the follow-up quest are 15 levels higher than him.

I don't mind Brigands being strong enemy types, I just think the level spike for that questline is a bit radical and should maybe be balanced in a full release.

 

[Yotetar]

Yotetar is clearly chaotic neutral at his purest form

I am honest, you know it, everyone knows it.

 

[Yotetar]

Already did. Had sex with all


Narratively Imawyn is no slouch either, but she sits at level 6 while no name mooks are at least Level 19. And both fights are part of the same questline and happen back to back.

Imagine beating the Chieftain Son from Rumah and then Gurtak's men in the follow-up quest are 15 levels higher than him.

I don't mind Brigands being strong enemy types, I just think the level spike for that questline is a bit radical and should maybe be balanced in a full release.

I dont think so. The questlog tells you the lvl required to do the quest. And the walkthrought tells you to equip some armor before facing brigands. An rpg in his pure form, is a "try and error". So no, it doesnt need to be refined.The questlog gives you an advice, that even if you keep going it doesnt end in game over.And the walkthrough tells you even more.
So grind it.it is a rpg, on rpg sometimes you need to grind.And it is not difficult to grind in this game when you have more quests to do than facing a brigand (with low lvl)

 

[Evangelion-01]

Chyos already stated that a “rework and balance update” it’s in his plans, in fact it’s already a possible update that patrons can choose in the polls.
Basically he will rework some animations, make balancing changes and other mechanical things, plus some additional content.

I'd assume that the rework will be around reduceing enemies Level while letting them keep their stats and skills, as we are still early game and the strongest mob enemies (not even military men) are already Level 55.
Reduce that by 30 Level (or maybe 50%-60% since it also needs to be applied for weaker enemies) without takeing away anything else will make it more believeable and allows for even stronger enemies to appear later in the game.
Like someone once said "Humans are a race of magnitude... we love high and raising numbers"

 

[Yotetar]

I'd assume that the rework will be around reduceing enemies Level while letting them keep their stats and skills, as we are still early game and the strongest mob enemies (not even military men) are already Level 55.
Reduce that by 30 Level (or maybe 50%-60% since it also needs to be applied for weaker enemies) without takeing away anything else will make it more believeable and allows for even stronger enemies to appear to appear.
Like someone once said "Humans are a race of magnitude... we love high and raising numbers"

What about the talents point you need to keep going? armor need points, roguery needs point, everything needs points.
No points, no party.

 

[Evangelion-01]

What about the talents point you need to keep going? armor need points, roguery needs point, everything needs points.
No points, no party.

That doesn't apply to enemies though... I am talking about mob enemies not Player groupe or even unique NPC Boss characters.

 

[JennyTreibel]

I dont think so. The questlog tells you the lvl required to do the quest. And the walkthrought tells you to equip some armor before facing brigands. An rpg in his pure form, is a "try and error". So no, it doesnt need to be refined.The questlog gives you an advice, that even if you keep going it doesnt end in game over.And the walkthrough tells you even more.
So grind it.it is a rpg, on rpg sometimes you need to grind.And it is not difficult to grind in this game when you have more quests to do than facing a brigand (with low lvl)

So, if enemy levels during the Rumah quests suddenly trippled, that would be fine and good design then? I don't know personally. To me it would feel like a very artificial increase of difficulty.

Anyway, it was just a suggestion on my part. I'm not going to lose sleep over this myself.

 

[Yotetar]

That doesn't apply to enemies though... I am talking about mob enemies not Player groupe or even unique NPC Boss characters.

If you reduce lvl, you reduce exp point, if you reduce lvl of enemies you directly reduce player lvl as well, so you reduce the talents points you get to spend. You know when he says balance means break saves gamesright? It means everyone has to start again.And less talent points makes you more difficult on overall.

So, if enemy levels during the Rumah quests suddenly trippled, that would be fine and good design then? I don't know personally. To me it would feel like a very artificial increase of difficulty.

Anyway, it was just a suggestion on my part. I'm not going to lose sleep over this myself.

If enemy levels during the Rumah quests suddenly trippled, that would be fine and good desigh because you didnt read the questlog part where it says: "lvl required"

 

[Evangelion-01]

So, if enemy levels during the Rumah quests suddenly trippled, that would be fine and good design then? I don't know personally. To me it would feel like a very artificial increase of difficulty.

Anyway, it was just a suggestion on my part. I'm not going to lose sleep over this myself.

It doesn't happen, like we said every enemy has a Level cap... that means a max but also a min Level... you just went for one of the strongest enemies currently in game.... would it make sence that they are weaker than an Orc stabber?

If you reduce lvl, you reduce exp point, if you reduce lvl of enemies you directly reduce player lvl as well, so you reduce the talents points you get to spend. You know when he says balance means break saves gamesright? It means everyone has to start again.And less talent points makes you more difficult on overall.

I neither said that the rebalance should affect the MC or his Party nor did I ever consider it... I am talking about changeing some numbers on the otherwise name and faceless enemies.
Enemy Levels are currently scaleing in order to display the dificulty they represent in the game... but those high numbers also limit the scaleing effects you can make in the future, normaly Level 99 is still max Level in RPGs. What Level would an actual Demon of war and torture have if a strong Human can already be Level 99?

 

[JennyTreibel]

If you reduce lvl, you reduce exp point, if you reduce lvl of enemies you directly reduce player lvl as well, so you reduce the talents points you get to spend. You know when he says balance means break saves gamesright? It means everyone has to start again.And less talent points makes you more difficult on overall.


If enemy levels during the Rumah quests suddenly trippled, that would be fine and good desigh because you didnt read the questlog part where it says: "lvl required"

Okay, if I go from a Level 10 Bandit to a Level 100 Bandit in the following quest, it would be okay, as long as I tell you in the quest log that enemies are now 90 levels higher? Well, I guess we just have to agree to disagree.