RPGM A Struggle with Sin [v0.6.1.1b] [Chyos]

[zARRR]

First the myth about the Golem is completly opposing your idea here.
The original Golem (there was only one) was created by a holy man imbueing holy earth with the holy power of god in order to protect those strong in their believe... thougfh the Golem killed it's master in the end.
The Golem required a long time potentially days to be completed and was still rushed, which caused it to go out of controll.
MC lacks any deeper understanding of magic and barely is able to use 2 spells of the dark attribut, so the opposite Element of what was used for the Golem.
Maybe you are mixing sources like diablo with your idea, but this could never work for the MC... at best Mira or Athia could arrange something like that if for example the monastery was besieged by Demons and they had the time to focus on that project while MC and the rest of the monks/nuns fight... but again I don't see this happening... afterall Magic is something evil in this universe.

But in the original medieval story the golem is simply put to eternal sleep by writing on his forehead (?) the word dead (מת).
And it is said that still to this day, he is hidden in an attic in one of the old house of Prague’s ghetto.

DeminPatyon I know what are we doing today, book some tickets for Czech Republic

 

[TheGrandMasterCory]

First the myth about the Golem is completly opposing your idea here.
The original Golem (there was only one) was created by a holy man imbueing holy earth with the holy power of god in order to protect those strong in their believe... thougfh the Golem killed it's master in the end.
The Golem required a long time potentially days to be completed and was still rushed, which caused it to go out of controll.
MC lacks any deeper understanding of magic and barely is able to use 2 spells of the dark attribut, so the opposite Element of what was used for the Golem.
Maybe you are mixing sources like diablo with your idea, but this could never work for the MC... at best Mira or Athia could arrange something like that if for example the monastery was besieged by Demons and they had the time to focus on that project while MC and the rest of the monks/nuns fight... but again I don't see this happening... afterall Magic is something evil in this universe.

I only mentioned the Golem as a reference to the origins of the idea of animating men of clay.

They were talking about creating men of clay and I was stating that this is closer to Golem making magic than it is to voodoo or necromancy.

Obviously, the entire Jewish mythos wouldn't be imported into this game.
And since this is Chyos story, the mechanics and lore behind how golems are created can be changed to suit the needs of this game.

In addition, you are too focused on the "holiness" or "darkness" of the magic in question. All of hat is irrelevant, here.

The discussion is only really about having the MC create an ally made of clay or other materials.

 

[TheGrandMasterCory]

No.

Yet another valuable and insightful contribution from the supposedly great Yotetar!

 

[Evangelion-01]

I only mentioned the Golem as a reference to the origins of the idea of animating men of clay.

They were talking about creating men of clay and I was stating that this is closer to Golem making magic than it is to voodoo or necromancy.

Obviously, the entire Jewish mythos wouldn't be imported into this game.
And since this is Chyos story, the mechanics and lore behind how golems are created can be changed to suit the needs of this game.

If that was your point you could have reffered to the terra cotta army of china... though the manifactureing required to create those includeing the time would make them unusable in battle as you'd need several workshops for even a single Golem... all in all this idea has become quiet overkill for a questionable skill... what's it's purpose again?
A battle companion?
Wait we'll get Bianca and Mira soon so the Party is already full...

In addition, you are too focused on the "holiness" or "darkness" of the magic in question. All of hat is irrelevant, here

How is the most important question irrelevant? every aspect of this game is explained in several sources of lore and each time more lore is revealed the Player can learn more about the game world itself... take the discussion with Isha leading to the creation of the tainted holy water... it's only a side note in a side Quest... but the impact it has on the the Players understanding of the world is more important than any main story lore we got so far.

 

[Yotetar]

My companions said the reasons why it didn't work, I respect their opinions and dont need to add anything to that topic.

But if they are wrong, I would tell them why it is not possible, instead of discarding those opinions as irrelevant, because it would mean I dont care and I dont respect them.

For those who opinion are irrelevant, is better to use small words so we can understand it better.

I encourage you to be better, and keep trying, so fruictfull ideas can be made by the consensus of everyone and be sent to Chyos.

Nothing more needs to be said.

An idea would be to use baits so we can catch some rare animals. After all, cheese work better with mice.

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

After all, cheese work better with mices.

Cheese works better with my belly, mice can fuck off to Death.

 

[Yotetar]

Cheese works better with my belly, mice can fuck off to Death.

cheese for you then.

 

[TheGrandMasterCory]

If that was your point you could have reffered to the terra cotta army of china...

Can't reference something you're not familiar with, can you?

though the manifactureing required to create those includeing the time would make them unusable in battle as you'd need several workshops for even a single Golem

Or just have the MC mold a man/figure out of clay and then use the magic he learned from Gwen & Sabrina to animate it.

Don't see the need for a fully-automated factory to build a single man of clay.

Many artists have been able to create such a thing without the need of all the resources you've mentioned.

You're argument is like saying that the building of the second story to Emily's house shouldn't have happened because the technological know-how and equipment wouldn't have been available to medieval townsmen.

I think you're forgetting this is a fantasy game, not a historically accurate rendition of the middle ages.

How is the most important question irrelevant? every aspect of this game is explained in several sources of lore and each time more lore is revealed the Player can learn more about the game world itself... take the discussion with Isha leading to the creation of the tainted holy water... it's only a side note in a side Quest... but the impact it has on the the Players understanding of the world is more important than any main story lore we got so far.

What "most important question" are you referring to? That isn't a rhetorical question. I genuinely want to know.

Because the reason why I said the "holiness" or "darkness" of the Golem origin is irrelevant here, is because the original discussion that was being had here was simply about creating and magically animating clay creatures.

So my original assertion, that this kind of magic is more akin to Jewish Golem magic rather than necromancy or voodoo, is still correct.

In addition, Chyos could ultimately decide in his own tale whether to make Golems holy or dark, thus making the "holiness" or "darkness" of the Golem's origins even more irrelevant.

 

[Evangelion-01]

Cheese works better with my belly, mice can fuck off to Death.

as long as you keep our socks on I don't mind I gues

 

[zARRR]

Cheese works better with my belly, mice can fuck off to Death.

How can cheese be a thing if there are no cows in the game tho?
Cows or no party
(It’s the milk discussion again isn’t it?)

 

[Yotetar]

We have a tavern with wine cellar, but not cheese? You see how barbaric and imcrompehensible is this?
You take wine with cheese if you dont want a full plate of food.
Unless Giron takes all the cheese from Lucius.

 

[Evangelion-01]

What "most important question" are you referring to? That isn't a rhetorical question. I genuinely want to know.

Because the reason why I said the "holiness" or "darkness" of the Golem origin is irrelevant here, is because the original discussion that was being had here was simply about creating and magically animating clay creatures.

So my original assertion, that this kind of magic is more akin to Jewish Golem magic rather than necromancy or voodoo, is still correct.

In addition, @Chyos could ultimately decide in his own tale whether to make Golems holy or dark, thus making the "holiness" or "darkness" of the Golem's origins even more irrelevant.

...Ok let's entertain you a bit more, I'll start from the end since it seems easier to go this way.

It is you that tries to bring in storylore by combining it with myth... I can't recall any discussions about Voodoo being done in the Posts I quoted as that stuff was discussed much earlier and ended with the same conclusion as before... to much effort for no apparent gain and several loopholes and story breaches... bringing up a dead horse to ride it again may fit the zombie Golems you have spoken of so far but it doesn't help with either the discussion nor makeing a point.

Or just have the MC mold a man/figure out of clay and then use the magic he learned from Gwen & Sabrina to animate it.

Don't see the need for a fully-automated factory to build a single man of clay.

Many artists have been able to create such a thing without the need of all the resources you've mentioned.

You're argument is like saying that the building of the second story to Emily's house shouldn't have happened because the technological know-how and equipment wouldn't have been available to medieval townsmen.

I think you're forgetting this is a fantasy game, not a historically accurate rendition of the middle ages.

I suspect you never worked with your hands in that pattern than... molding anything usuable requires knowledge of the material and skill... it's one thing to paint a stone wall with clay as mortar and something completly different useing clay to form an artistic body double.
And what skill does the MC have that would allow him to animate something inanimate?
Soul steal?... yeah that's not gonna fly far.

 

[Yotetar]

Anyway it is curious that we have traps to catch mice and hares, but we dont use bait to attract them into the traps. You dont see a bright future in the real life with that.
We should add alfalfa to the crops.
And start developing fishtraps, we have a river.More plates, more money. There is profit to be made.

 

[Evangelion-01]

Anyway it is curious that we have traps to catch mice and hares, but we dont use bait to attract them into the traps. You dont see a bright future in the real life with that.
We should add alfalfa to the crops.
And start developing fishtraps, we have a river.More plates, more money. There is profit to be made.

Just remember... the MC used to be a drunkard and sloth... meaning he has no idea about either hunting nor fishing... it was Corven that tought MC how to create some simple traps on the getgo that are a bit more complicated than a lasso on a tree.
I mean we still have the lure that Markus had kept in his room in the old shack for a predator... but without knowing how to use it MC could easily end as the prey instead of the hunter... Corven might come in handy again down the road in that regard... but he can't fish... noone in Arenfield apparently can.

 

[Yotetar]

Just remember... the MC used to be a drunkard and sloth... meaning he has no idea about either hunting nor fishing... it was Corven that tought MC how to create some simple traps on the getgo that are a bit more complicated than a lasso on a tree.
I mean we still have the lure that Markus had kept in his room in the old shack for a predator... but without knowing how to use it MC could easily end as the prey instead of the hunter... Corven might come in handy again down the road in that regard... but he can't fish... noone in Arenfield apparently can.

That's why it doesnt make sense that an experienced hunter doesnt tell him to use bait to attract those hares in a trap. You know that in real life. Hares are extremely intelligent, they are preys, they had thousands of years of evolution in their genes, where they learned how to breath, how to move, how to listen, how to not be predated.Their ancestors, the Amphilagus tomidai walked on Siberia 14 millions ago, for the record. No bait no gain,usually.

And because Corven taught us how to make skillfull traps, we can use that wisdom to improvise some rough fishtraps. That's a way to see how MC evolves as a hunter, developing skills to use in his enviroment.

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

How can cheese be a thing if there are no cows in the game tho?
Cows or no party
(It’s the milk discussion again isn’t it?)

As far as i am concerned, plenty of two-legged cows in the game.

 

[Evangelion-01]

That's why it doesnt make sense that an experienced hunter doesnt tell him to use bait to attract those hares in a trap. You know that in real life. Hares are extremely intelligent, they are preys, they had thousands of years of evolution in their genes, where they learned how to breath, how to move, how to listen, how to not be predated.Their ancestors, the Amphilagus tomidai walked on Siberia 14 millions ago, for the record. No bait no gain,usually.

And because Corven taught us how to make skillfull traps, we can use that wisdom to improvise some rough fishtraps. That's a way to see how MC evolves as a hunter, developing skills to use in his enviroment.

well hunting and fishing are still 2 different occupations so I don't really see how he can grow into a fisher as hunter... and also there are several traps you place at animal crossings or at the entrance of their burrows that work without bait... pretty much obstruct their path and hope for atleast one to get tangled in the yarn loop he placed in that cage... I mean many of those traps break and it's not a 100% success rate with the traps... sure it can be improved but a trap with bait normally needs to be bigger than the prey and the constructions differs from those small traps Corven taught the MC about.
Wether the MC could figure this out himself or Corven actually helps him is the questions Chyos needs to decide on... for now Corven is to busy thinking about the Cult to teach MC becomeing a better hunter... but once they are dealt with he needs a new goal in live... unless he dies while takeing them down ofc

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

Also you people are a little too into realism, this is a Fantasy game remember?
Things don't need to be terribly realistic.

 

[Cat-in-the-Hat]

About the traps:

Spoiler

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People not even paying attention, tsk tsk tsk.

 

[Evangelion-01]

Also you people are a little too into realism, this is a Fantasy game remember?
Things don't need to be terribly realistic.

Nonono... this is all about details... Chyos has shown that he pays an incredible deal on those... if you want to be convincing to him you need to think about those small things and only once you found a solid path you can reach the light and make a suggestion.

I mean there are plenty piles of straw... yet there is not a single sex scenes in them