RPGM A Struggle with Sin [v0.6.1.1b] [Chyos]

[Yotetar]

I think Chyos made a pretty good point in the rescue being necessary, as that is the turning point of him and Emilys relationship.
Changeing that trigger moment can hardly be achieved with a simple change in the lines and seems unecesary complicated if you ask me.

Then we agree that it should've changed.zARRR you have work to do.

 

[Evangelion-01]

Then we agree that it should've changed.zARRR you have work to do.

We do? I thought we agreed to disagree... I am confused now

 

[zARRR]

We do? I thought we agreed to disagree... I am confused now

Shhhhh it’s all a Yotetar strategy to make you fall you on his side

 

[Yotetar]

Shhhhh it’s all a Yotetar strategy to make you fall you on his side

Shhhhh don't reveal my plans.

 

[Ottoeight]

Chyos, pal, don't change anything. Everything's fine to me.

Well, almost. We just need moar Frisha and Imawyn and Mira and Arianna and Penny and Sabrina and Verena and Athia and Melissa and Liandra. Just a few.

 

[Tehemai]

It doesn't bother me too much but I do think the level scaling of enemies is a bit nonsense in the way it's currently balanced. For example, I remember falling more and more behind mere goblins in speed even despite pumping dexterity. Without even equipping shields, which actually makes you lose even more speed depending on how much agi you have due to the way the % bonus works.

Leveling definitely makes you feel weaker until you exceed the given enemy's maximum. And for some reason, some enemies scale to rather absurd levels. Orc Brute? Max 10, that's okay. Plague fiends? 26. Goblin scout? Whopping 40. Those poor orc scouts stuck at 5. Goblin master race.

 

[Hedonax]

So you never encountered a situation when dialogues change based on story progression?
gues you are a bit to early in the game than.

Obviously dialogue can change, but why would I expect it to have IN THIS CASE? If Rick had previously said anything useful to establish him as a source of meaningful information, it might be different, but he's basically just chatted shit about everyone. If I had any reason to expect he'd be the source of information here, it'd be different, but, as I've said, there's no reason to think that.

People talk and kids are curious, obviously the elders must have told the kids a reason why Tia is different and why they should keep their distance or at least be careful around her.

People don't talk about serious matters much around children that are only a few years old, kids that age barely give a shit about anything, and people have almost no memories of those ages in the first place. No, that isn't obvious. You seem to have just made it up. I certainly haven't seen any explanation from anyone, and the only dialogue so far has been Rick saying he doesn't like her because she's big and strong.

Failing to follow the devs logic (which seems to be a personal issue since most guys got it on the first try) is not meta game or bad design.
I see this is an personal issue to you but really makeing any more obvious hints would make this a VN with combat elements... you are supposed to walk around and explore the changeing world.

Any time you make a decision in a game based on knowledge from outside the game is metagame and bad design for rpgs. You know, like noticing that a character has dialogue options, and so assuming they must be the person to talk to about something even though you have no in-narrative reason to think they'd be the source of that info. That isn't to say you won't think that, but there should be an in-narrative reason for you to talk to that person also.

Metagame aspects can be good in non-narrative contexts, like color coding in games to communicate where to go, or what you can interact with can be very useful.

If you like bad game design and nonsensical puzzles to progress them, that's a personal issue of yours.

 

[HentaiKami]

It doesn't bother me too much but I do think the level scaling of enemies is a bit nonsense in the way it's currently balanced. For example, I remember falling more and more behind mere goblins in speed even despite pumping dexterity. Without even equipping shields, which actually makes you lose even more speed depending on how much agi you have due to the way the % bonus works.

Leveling definitely makes you feel weaker until you exceed the given enemy's maximum. And for some reason, some enemies scale to rather absurd levels. Orc Brute? Max 10, that's okay. Plague fiends? 26. Goblin scout? Whopping 40. Those poor orc scouts stuck at 5. Goblin master race.

Eh, while there are discussions to have about level scaling and how it's bad in most cases, i don't really mind it personally in this one. Personally didn't really feel like getting weaker when leveling up, but that might also be because i tried to always upgrade my gear as soon as possible. Also different combat actions have different speeds, so there's also that.

While it is weird that goblins are way tougher than most orcs you encounter, it's done like that due to game balancing reasons in the story. If orcs were tougher than goblins, Chyos would have to change the story by switching orcs and goblins around and that would be bit hard considering the storyline. Also it's reasonable that you can't beat every enemy on every stat or their primary stat. You just have to try and build MC and waifus in a way, that they can beat enemies even if some of them are faster or stronger than they are.

But now days, after playing from the start so many times, i usually just skip parts of the grind by giving myself few extra stats with cheat book.

 

[XSelLint]

And for some reason, some enemies scale to rather absurd levels. Orc Brute? Max 10, that's okay. Plague fiends? 26. Goblin scout? Whopping 40. Those poor orc scouts stuck at 5. Goblin master race.

My MC is lvl 74 I was surprised when I did Defend Rumah Quest and saw Umah was around lvl 70, and Dasan and Syfa were in LVL 30s

 

[Nighthumper123]

Joi play is extremely laggy do yo know any alternatives that I can use?

 

[Herokuyon]

Tia and Katherine dont have 3some in this update yet, right?

 

[Samsul Hidayat]

1. You almost certainly already talked to him about Tia by that point, and he had nothing useful to say except he doesn't like her, which suggests against him having any useful info.

Not liking someone doesn't mean you don't have any info on them whatsoever. If anything, some people might want to learn more about the person just to justify their dislike, to avoid them better, or as an ammo to slander them.

2. If you're trying to argue Rick would have more knowledge about her history, when he would have been all of a few years old at any time you weren't also in Arenfield is genuinely absurd. As I said, it makes far more sense to go to someone older in the community who would have already been a teenager or adult when Tia showed up.

Rick frequents the tavern so often he's bound to hear a thing or two about ongoing rumors. People's tongues can get pretty loose when they're drunk. Also, at that time Rick is MC's closest friend, and many adults don't really regard MC well, so no real reason to disclose any private info about Tia to him.

Why are you so stubborn like this?

 

[Tehemai]

Eh, while there are discussions to have about level scaling and how it's bad in most cases, i don't really mind it personally in this one. Personally didn't really feel like getting weaker when leveling up, but that might also be because i tried to always upgrade my gear as soon as possible. Also different combat actions have different speeds, so there's also that.

While it is weird that goblins are way tougher than most orcs you encounter, it's done like that due to game balancing reasons in the story. If orcs were tougher than goblins, Chyos would have to change the story by switching orcs and goblins around and that would be bit hard considering the storyline. Also it's reasonable that you can't beat every enemy on every stat or their primary stat. You just have to try and build MC and waifus in a way, that they can beat enemies even if some of them are faster or stronger than they are.

But now days, after playing from the start so many times, i usually just skip parts of the grind by giving myself few extra stats with cheat book.

Yea, as I said it's not a big deal to me either. But sugarcoating is not necessary, it's obviously not great design. I don't think it's really justified by balancing either. Dynamic scaling is always a risky venture but one thing we all know is that a level up should never feel like a level down. That's the classic trapping of the design. Oblivion fell for that too and got roasted for it.

Personally I think you should also absolutely be able to keep up with a mere goblin if you're focusing the stat and even sacrificing armor slots. It's still in the end of the day just a regular goblin, not an emerald powered hedgehog or a metal slime. But I suppose that's more opinion. Getting progressively slower though? Definitely not ideal. And it's not like it's the only stat, their damage and tankiness also go up.

As for the difference between orcs and goblins, I'm not really sure about that one either. It may have been implemented late, but the goblin quest is not remotely late game. I naturally got to it well before cultists on my playthrough. And they max at 20ish. And with tia taunt I was still able to farm them for absurd xp because of that level scaling. A single group of goblins quickly starts giving you more xp than saving all of rumah. It actually breaks the game balance if you fight too many. They even have an infinite spawn trigger.

TLDR, it doesn't bother me but level scaling right now is busted. I still think dev time management is an issue so I don't really mind if it doesn't get fixed for a while though. There are other issues, not a priority at least for me.

 

[Samsul Hidayat]

Yea, as I said it's not a big deal to me either. But sugarcoating is not necessary, it's obviously not great design. I don't think it's really justified by balancing either. Dynamic scaling is always a risky venture but one thing we all know is that a level up should never feel like a level down. That's the classic trapping of the design. Oblivion fell for that too and got roasted for it.

Personally I think you should also absolutely be able to keep up with a mere goblin if you're focusing the stat and even sacrificing armor slots. It's still in the end of the day just a regular goblin, not an emerald powered hedgehog or a metal slime. But I suppose that's more opinion. Getting progressively slower though? Definitely not ideal. And it's not like it's the only stat, their damage and tankiness also go up.

As for the difference between orcs and goblins, I'm not really sure about that one either. It may have been implemented late, but the goblin quest is not remotely late game. I naturally got to it well before cultists on my playthrough. And they max at 20ish. And with tia taunt I was still able to farm them for absurd xp because of that level scaling. A single group of goblins quickly starts giving you more xp than saving all of rumah. It actually breaks the game balance if you fight too many. They even have an infinite spawn trigger.

TLDR, it doesn't bother me but level scaling right now is busted. I still think dev time management is an issue so I don't really mind if it doesn't get fixed for a while though. There are other issues, not a priority at least for me.

Chyos said he'll rebalance the game in the next update. Don't know which version though.

 

[123Ins123]

Tia and Katherine dont have 3some in this update yet, right?

It seems not yet.

 

[Tehemai]

Chyos said he'll rebalance the game in the next update. Don't know which version though.

Yea, I heard about that but I wasn't sure what he's balancing. But despite everything, I actually don't think he needs to worry about it too much yet since the game is still seemingly early in development. I'm sure he'll need to do it again before long as more content gets implemented anyways.

But I suppose if he's doing that already, he should probably fix the current glaring scaling issues. Maybe tune regular enemy scaling a bit down (xp&stats), quest/boss xp up and put more sensible level caps.

 

[Evangelion-01]

People don't talk about serious matters much around children that are only a few years old, kids that age barely give a shit about anything, and people have almost no memories of those ages in the first place. No, that isn't obvious. You seem to have just made it up. I certainly haven't seen any explanation from anyone, and the only dialogue so far has been Rick saying he doesn't like her because she's big and strong.

If they didn't in your childhood that's one thing but in general Parents worry about their kids haveing a child with potentially the strength of an adult and a short temper has nearly a guarnatee for a broken bone every once and now (and Tia did prove she had that capacity).

Any time you make a decision in a game based on knowledge from outside the game is metagame and bad design for rpgs. You know, like noticing that a character has dialogue options, and so assuming they must be the person to talk to about something even though you have no in-narrative reason to think they'd be the source of that info.

Metagame aspects can be good in non-narrative contexts, like color coding in games to communicate where to go, or what you can interact with can be very useful.

If you like bad game design and nonsensical puzzles to progress them, that's a personal issue of yours.

So if you fail to get yourself into the game and would need to check back with the Walkthrough (which can be entirely avoided by useing logic, keeping track of the Questlog and dialogues of Characters) it's Metagame and bad design?
That's an entirely personal definition of this and hencefor a personal, but not a valid point.

Yea, as I said it's not a big deal to me either. But sugarcoating is not necessary, it's obviously not great design. I don't think it's really justified by balancing either. Dynamic scaling is always a risky venture but one thing we all know is that a level up should never feel like a level down. That's the classic trapping of the design. Oblivion fell for that too and got roasted for it.

Personally I think you should also absolutely be able to keep up with a mere goblin if you're focusing the stat and even sacrificing armor slots. It's still in the end of the day just a regular goblin, not an emerald powered hedgehog or a metal slime. But I suppose that's more opinion. Getting progressively slower though? Definitely not ideal. And it's not like it's the only stat, their damage and tankiness also go up.

As for the difference between orcs and goblins, I'm not really sure about that one either. It may have been implemented late, but the goblin quest is not remotely late game. I naturally got to it well before cultists on my playthrough. And they max at 20ish. And with tia taunt I was still able to farm them for absurd xp because of that level scaling. A single group of goblins quickly starts giving you more xp than saving all of rumah. It actually breaks the game balance if you fight too many. They even have an infinite spawn trigger.

TLDR, it doesn't bother me but level scaling right now is busted. I still think dev time management is an issue so I don't really mind if it doesn't get fixed for a while though. There are other issues, not a priority at least for me.

Here is a point to consider.
We don't really know much of these Goblins, they were bred by a Dark Elf with strong magical powers.
I think Chyos will adress the Level difference in the next Bianca Update when you return to the mine and find one of their breeding grounds as Chyos hinted so far... I could imagine that the Dark Elf placed some rituals/wards to strentghen the Goblins in that lair.
Also in order to Save Bianca and Gavina you either need silver arrows (from the Cultist Questline) or to be Gwen/Ishas apprentice (which requires to hunt swamp beasts, which have the same Level as Cultists)

 

[Nighthumper123]

Joiplay sucks is there any alternatives that I can use?

 

[zARRR]

Any time you make a decision in a game based on knowledge from outside the game is metagame and bad design for rpgs. You know, like noticing that a character has dialogue options, and so assuming they must be the person to talk to about something even though you have no in-narrative reason to think they'd be the source of that info.

Metagame aspects can be good in non-narrative contexts, like color coding in games to communicate where to go, or what you can interact with can be very useful.

If you like bad game design and nonsensical puzzles to progress them, that's a personal issue of yours.

Man did you just contradict yourself?
Wasnn’t metagame design bad in general lmao.

I am giving up on you explaining things tho, since you would call bad design half of the games that don’t follow your perspective on things.
The Sheika statues in Oot give me hints even if they have no in-narrative reason! That‘s bad design right there!
Some metal gear solid bosses require me to use external methods! Hell of a bad design!
Going down on a pipe by pressing “down“ in super Mario bros requires intuition? Bad design!
The entirety of Pathologic

And don’t get me started on the other things I have mentioned for Rick to have in game relevance<!

Yeah, and some people might want to fornicate with their dogs. Do you have a relevant point, or are you just butthurt I'm criticizing this game?

Why being rude?
He gave a point and you basically answered “However your mother”.

Joiplay sucks is there any alternatives that I can use?

Use the PC

 

[Ottoeight]

Guys, why are you still answering him?