A Thought About All The Games With DAZ3D Models For Their CGs

[casualwander]

I was actually exploring a game and deciding between a bunch of low poly assets or focus on making 3-4 high quality DAZ3D models and make a hacking world or something.

Thoughts or should I make my own thread?

 

[TacoHoleStory]

My characters reaction to you calling her creepy:

 

[Yorma86]

It's just that everyone wants to make a "game" as quickly as possible to farm patreon without even trying to understand the subject. As you point out, you can work through Blender, which will reduce the rendering time, but also the picture will not be as terrible as Daz.
I don't even look at these games anymore. Maybe there's a good story/gameplay, but that's the kind of visual I can't stand.

This is a big reason why I'm having doubts about making a game with DAZ, but my options are very limited, so I'm hoping that with effort the 3D art won't hinder the game experience for people. I'm a solo dev and I've spent a lot of time learning Renpy and Python to create a semi-sandbox game in a school environment with a lot of character stats for NPCs and the player which will influence story events and actions you can make. Needless to say, building the different systems, writing the game and implementing the different character attribute checks and actions takes a lot of time.

I like drawing and I'd like to think I'm pretty good, but between my work and social life I could churn out maybe max 1 finished quality picture per day if I really pushed my limits, but DAZ allows me to render multiple pictures in a day, though creating the characters and setting up the scene, posing and lighting still takes a ton of time.

 

[Vengel]

Making a thread for circlejerking, to feel validated by his peers ... much like Quarterback-Kyle when he bullied weeb boy. By opening a thread you're asking for others to join in ... duh. And having a different opinion doesn't equate to get the jimmies rustled. The world isn't black and white. That Republican mindset is a dumbed down version of the endless shades an opinion or argument can have. But hey, maybe you will learn that someday. I wish you the best.
Peace out.

HAHAHAHA
Did you just insert politics into this !?

Wow ... just ... WOW !

 

[megaplayboy10k]

hahahaha
ok

This is what a 3D character artist looks like:

You must be registered to see the links

The ones you listed - are shitty wanna be ARTists ... Period!

Also ... I'm see this argument > can't handle other people success
like we are all from the same third world country with no income
If you actually read carefully my posting history you would know part of the reason for me being here.
Outside of that I'm gonna give you second clue - open Nutaku ... one of the companies with games there > my workplace

Ask that "3d character artist" how long it takes them to create the models, stage a scene and do, oh, 5-10k renders, plus a couple hundred short animations. Also, what hardware they're working with and how much all that set them back. I tend to doubt that most "3d character artists" could do all the coding, dialogue AND art for a game in anything near the time frame that is commercially realistic/viable. If it takes more than an hour to do one of those renders, guess what, you're going to struggle to get out more than a few dozen renders per month.

 

[Fatalmasterpiece]

This reminds me of people complaining about rap and electronic music on music production forums. "But it requires no talent" yet the people complaining have released very little or no music of their own and have never toured. "It's not real music" yet people keep buying it by the millions. Just look at the poll results here on the OP.
The lesson is, if you don't like something, ignore it and let people continue doing what they like, even if you don't get it or understand the appeal. Meanwhile, focus on what you do like and try to make a positive impact on the community.

 

[Welwigo]

Yeah ... riiight.

Newsflash: Just because you prefer one thing over the other, that doesn't make you better than them.

I'm not saying that. Most of us in this thread aren't saying that. I realize I came in being condescending. I apologize. I was very annoyed when I made this thread originally.

What we're saying is that the quality of work is far below what it should be, simply because you have people who are far too inexperienced with the medium or have far too little time to devote to certain aspects of the work. That, and the fact that DAZ3D by itself is an inferior tool. You need other tools that the creators may not know about or don't have access to like Blender or Maya, Lightroom, and Photoshop in order to make up for the shortcomings of DAZ3D. DAZ3D can be a starting point, but too many people rely on it as a finished tool and product. It is a tool in toolbox, one of many that needs to be used to get a finalized piece of work.

I think it's just... a lot of people are afraid to ask for help. The most I see the devs who used DAZ do is ask for specific models or textures. Very few ask for lighting advice, very few ask for custom made models, very few ask for somebody to fix the rigging on the models. And the ones who want to make 2D games but end up going with 3D are afraid to ask for an artist. I work in both 2D and 3D. I know the shortcomings of each. I know how discouraging it can be to not get the results you want.

Honestly I think that to overcome this problem we need to stop being so damn suspicious of eachother and stop being afraid of asking for help. Part of the reason this is so prevalent is because everybody wants to take the entire brunt of the workload by themselves, as Yorma is struggling with. In the Recruitment forums, there's always a huge number of threads with both 2D and 3D artists requests, but hardly anyone actually fulfills the requests. Some of that is people jumping in and trying to create a team before they even have an idea fully laid out, and some of it is people wanting to simply have a producer role, I realize.

 

[Vengel]

Ask that "3d character artist" how long it takes them to create the models, stage a scene and do, oh, 5-10k renders, plus a couple hundred short animations. Also, what hardware they're working with and how much all that set them back. I tend to doubt that most "3d character artists" could do all the coding, dialogue AND art for a game in anything near the time frame that is commercially realistic/viable. If it takes more than an hour to do one of those renders, guess what, you're going to struggle to get out more than a few dozen renders per month.

bullshit alert ... bullshit alert ... sorry ... nope ...
that argument is a blank at this point ... a lot of people are using it here!

first of all - every professional knows about MVP and/or SQ (scalable quality)
second of all - and that goes for all the "famous" adult game creators ... they all have the hardware for the job

nothing to guess here ... pretty easy to create variety with less resource if you have the talent.
sorry - talent is still the problem!
also - the dude that I pointed out - his main focus is "sketching" real life persons ... the real time consumer there is the proper eye to sculpt results. Nothing to do with high end hardware.
also ... nobody talk about coding here ... your just trying to stack non viable arguments that are outside of this conversation.

 

[Niv-Mizzet the Firemind]

If you're that bothered by it, why do you even bother with 3dcg games? What is the point of this thread? Just to rant?

Also, maybe I've read the thread wrong, but your solution to someone being bad/inexperienced in daz or whatever is to not release their game/renders? If they don't do that to get feedback, how will they get the experience you want them to display? I don't get your point.

 

[megaplayboy10k]

bullshit alert ... bullshit alert ... sorry ... nope ...
that argument is a blank at this point ... a lot of people are using it here!

first of all - every professional knows about MVP and/or SQ (scalable quality)
second of all - and that goes for all the "famous" adult game creators ... they all have the hardware for the job

nothing to guess here ... pretty easy to create variety with less resource if you have the talent.
sorry - talent is still the problem!
also - the dude that I pointed out - his main focus is "sketching" real life persons ... the real time consumer there is the proper eye to sculpt results. Nothing to do with high end hardware.
also ... nobody talk about coding here ... your just trying to stack non viable arguments that are outside of this conversation.

A couple points here:
1. That artist is doing portraits only, not scenes. There's no 2nd or 3rd or 4th characters, not even much in terms of background props or sets. Certainly no action being portrayed. How does that translate into capacity to meet the needs of a visual novel or game? Again, that artist, who looks to have created about 1 image per day for her DA page, would have to crank out a much higher volume of work. I'm a shitty 3d artist, but if you give me a whole day per render, I can take it from a D- to a C+ without much difficulty. But if you take that A+ renderer and tell them to work 10x faster, they'll drop to a B- average pretty quickly.
2. My argument about coding is that many devs are one man operations, so they're not just doing the art, they're doing the writing/plotting/dialogue and the coding too. All of those tasks--plus promoting your work and interacting with fans and patrons--take time. Higher quality renders take lots of time and slow the rate of production. It's true that there are variations in talent level out there, but that's not the only "cap" on quality. Time and resource constraints also are a factor.

My final point, if you look at 3d/DAZ graphics/art for these games in 2016(best and worst) and compare it to the output in 2020/2021, there's no contest, the quality at the top end has steadily improved. The best stuff from 2016 looks subpar compared to the work now, and in part that's due to the learning curve of more experienced devs and greater market competition.

 

[Yorma86]

Yes that's about how the vast majority of the game on Daz looks like, which causes a negative reaction.
You talk about lighting, when often you can meet developers who haven't even heard of Smoothing Modifier.


You are no better. Criticism is important. You don't need to jump and clap your hands near every "new" Daz product and call their games art that has flying objects in the center of the screen, no work with light, poses, composition, post-processing, uses the same assets, locations that don't even change, etc.


My favorite argument is "Appeal to accomplishment".
If you get your food ruined in a restaurant, I take it you won't have any questions because you're not a professional chef.

Okay, I just had to jump in here since I saw this.

1. What's smoothing modifier / turbo smooth / subdivision surface got to do with DAZ renders? Or do you expect everyone to export the DAZ scenes to Maya or Blender for rendering? I really did consider it, but the file sizes were terrible and something was always a bit off.

2. Criticism is important, I agree with you there. As long as it's constructive critique that can be used to improve the work or the next product.

3. Nobody said you need to be a professional developer to dish out critique (and you've still tried cooking before in a non-professional capacity, right?), but people were calling devs lazy and cash-grabbers pretty unfairly in my opinion. The point is that it's very easy to give harsh critique even when you have no little to no idea of the work involved. I don't know what your experience level is, but the attitude alone doesn't seem like that of an artist, because anyone who's worked their butts off know that everyone starts from the bottom.

That being said, those that start from the bottom are sometimes too eager and do not realize what their work is lacking, so they would need a lot of constructive criticism. Sadly, they're often the least open to it. It's the Dunning-Kruger effect that plagues both starting devs and people who feel like they have the right to shit on other people's work.

Tl;dr; let's just try to be cool and supportive to see the quality of games go up, yeah?

 

[LBW]

I agree with the OP, the 3DCG games follows pretty much the same storyline and character archetypes. You've played one game, you've basically played all of them. They're really boring.
The thing with DAZ is that it's really easy for pretty much everyone to venture into the 3D world having all that library of assets at your disposal, characters, clothing, genitals and so on. You don't have to learn sculpting, texturing, composition principles, lighting and so on, you simply stick a 3d penis into some 3d plasticky vagina, max the size of the boobs, raise the exposure just to barely distinguish the face of your characters and BUM! Voila... you're a 3d porn game developer. And obviously you need a patreon account to fund your awesome incest game (which btw, WILL get you banned on patreon). Now all you have to do is wait for those 3 patrons giving you $1/month so they'll delete their subscription the next day or month because you didn't give them enough content for that buck. And at some point they'll get all of your content for free here anyways.
BUT...Daz is a bit more complex than that, the sculpting in DAZ is way easier and faster thanks to all those morph sliders, then having to go through the process of learning, IF you ever manage to learn to sculpt your own characters in obviously more powerful software like ZBrush or Blender. Then it allows you to use your own texture maps that you can create from scratch. And it's so easy to fiddle through those sliders in order to give your characters a facial expression that basically make them feel alive. The iray engine is very powerful once you understand it. I know a lot of artists getting very good and believable results out of it. I do get good results most of the time (take this for example: [3D-DAZ] Daz3d Art - Show Us Your DazSkill | F95zone or this [3D-DAZ] Daz3d Art - Show Us Your DazSkill | F95zone ).
In the end if you know what you're doing (have the eye of an artist and a bit of experience), you can get believable results out of Daz and much easier than going through the steep learning curve of more complex software (that most of the time you may not need for certain purposes).

 

[Hildegardt]

I can see how the biggest critics in this thread might be a little harsh, but I can still see some legitimate points. I've seen too many copy/pasted poses and animations to be willing to defend every single dev. I just don't see how DAZ3D is the problem here. It's not like there's any more effort and talent involved in Honey Select screenshots or traced-over screenshots of porn clips. The only problem with DAZ3D I see is that the models are very stylized, so every game using it has the same style.

Being on a piracy forum I can't really complain, but I think it's sad how much (financial) support some legitimately bad art can get. The thing about porn is just that it speaks to our urges. Like, I don't need to look at shitty art or read a shitty book, but I absolutely need to satisfy my sexual needs. No matter what, people are going to fap to it as long as the MC gets to fuck his not-mom.
Think about how true art is supposed to evoke emotions and then think about how people react to games with certain tags. For some games it seems like I'm supposed to fap to the fantasies of a 15yo psychopath. It can be the most unimmersive shit and people will still be moved enough by it to spam a thread with their distaste for certain kinks or even be outraged. It's not that any game is inherently true art, when it gets the ntr tag on this forum. Devs are just trying to inject some value into their shitty games by trying to get out dicks hard. A game doesn't have to be good as long as I can reward myself for playing it with an orgasm.

 

[megaplayboy10k]

Is there room for improvement by a lot of amateur game developers working without a net, so to speak? Sure.
Is some of the criticism from, uh, "Vengel", I guess, a bit ridiculous? They list TON as "overrated". I mean, it's a highly stylized version of DAZ created scenes, the story and dialogue are fleshed out, there's lots of action and many group scenes, and the dev meets deadlines like a motherfucker. Also, anyone who talks about various popular games being "overrated" without identifying a positive counter-example is pretty sus in my book. Who out there is doing it right, if NLT, e.g., is "doing it wrong"?

 

[Vengel]

A couple points here:
1. That artist is doing portraits only, not scenes. There's no 2nd or 3rd or 4th characters, not even much in terms of background props or sets. Certainly no action being portrayed. How does that translate into capacity to meet the needs of a visual novel or game? Again, that artist, who looks to have created about 1 image per day for her DA page, would have to crank out a much higher volume of work. I'm a shitty 3d artist, but if you give me a whole day per render, I can take it from a D- to a C+ without much difficulty. But if you take that A+ renderer and tell them to work 10x faster, they'll drop to a B- average pretty quickly.
2. My argument about coding is that many devs are one man operations, so they're not just doing the art, they're doing the writing/plotting/dialogue and the coding too. All of those tasks--plus promoting your work and interacting with fans and patrons--take time. Higher quality renders take lots of time and slow the rate of production. It's true that there are variations in talent level out there, but that's not the only "cap" on quality. Time and resource constraints also are a factor.

My final point, if you look at 3d/DAZ graphics/art for these games in 2016(best and worst) and compare it to the output in 2020/2021, there's no contest, the quality at the top end has steadily improved. The best stuff from 2016 looks subpar compared to the work now, and in part that's due to the learning curve of more experienced devs and greater market competition.

OMG ... and that is why that type of argument always ends with somebody explaining us how much time something takes.
2.56 renders per day equals 7.32 * 4.12 ... bla bla bla ...

DUDE! ... I gave a example for a talented 3D sculptor ... not a render GURU! That's the point ... and for that you need talent! His renders actually are not ever top tier! OK!? They are not! But what he can do WAY faster in terms of variety and uniqueness comes from trained talent!
All the games look the same and half the reason for that is - they are using the same assets because those over rated cunts are ex cement specialists - wanna be artists / current scammers

again with the coding ... nobody is saying something is easy and or avoidable in that regard!

And my final point is - whoever still renders all the scene in daz and not using composition and post process is a idiot. Hollywood is doing it ... but not your favorite "ARTistos". No sympathy for those in 21 century! Sorry ... That approach supposed to be producing a better visuals but it all ends up with the same mediocre crap ... even for porn game.

 

[megaplayboy10k]

OMG ... and that is why that type of argument always ends with somebody explaining us how much time something takes.
2.56 renders per day equals 7.32 * 4.12 ... bla bla bla ...

DUDE! ... I gave a example for a talented 3D sculptor ... not a render GURU! That's the point ... and for that you need talent! His renders actually are not ever top tier! OK!? They are not! But what he can do WAY faster in terms of variety and uniqueness comes from trained talent!
All the games look the same and half the reason for that is - they are using the same assets because those over rated cunts are ex cement specialists - wanna be artists / current scammers

again with the coding ... nobody is saying something is easy and or avoidable in that regard!

And my final point is - whoever still renders all the scene in daz and not using composition and post process is a idiot. Hollywood is doing it ... but not your favorite "ARTistos". No sympathy for those in 21 century! Sorry ... That approach supposed to be producing a better visuals but it all ends up with the same mediocre crap ... even for porn game.

So what devs are doing it right, in your view? Cite some examples.

 

[Vengel]

Is there room for improvement by a lot of amateur game developers working without a net, so to speak? Sure.
Is some of the criticism from, uh, "Vengel", I guess, a bit ridiculous? They list TON as "overrated". I mean, it's a highly stylized version of DAZ created scenes, the story and dialogue are fleshed out, there's lots of action and many group scenes, and the dev meets deadlines like a motherfucker. Also, anyone who talks about various popular games being "overrated" without identifying a positive counter-example is pretty sus in my book. Who out there is doing it right, if NLT, e.g., is "doing it wrong"?

Yes TON is a perfect example of somebody that knows the tool and have no talent!
What else you need as a proof for that ...
And if that is a fleshed out dialogue ... you need to start reading RIGHT now! And stop watching nickelodeon

Time to burn your book I guess ...

 

[megaplayboy10k]

Yes TON is a perfect example of somebody that knows the tool and have no talent!
What else you need as a proof for that ...
And if that is a fleshed out dialogue ... you need to start reading RIGHT now! And stop watching nickelodeon

Time to burn your book I guess ...

Dude, again, cite actual examples of games that you feel "do it right", or take all the seats.

 

[anne O'nymous]

What else you need as a proof for that ...

Something else that an angry guy using this forum to vent his frustration ?

And if that is a fleshed out dialogue ... you need to start reading RIGHT now! And stop watching nickelodeon

But there's nothing to read in your comments. It's just your non argued opinion, when it's not pure bullshit.

Your whole position rely on the fact that indie guys making games on their free time, do not provide renders with the same level of quality than people who pass a full day on each render, and own $US 20K computers and software for their creations. Well, thanks captain obvious...

And you talk about talent, without being able to see it where it is. This simply because your sole definition of good renders limit to the photo realism of the image. There's effectively talented artists on the scene, peoples like Philly, HopesGaming or Nottravis, among others, who provide quality CGs in regard of the time and computing power they have.
But to see this, one need first to effectively know what he's talking about, and this clearly isn't your case. Else you wouldn't pretend that no one use post-prod, while naming a game like Being a Dik, that use (used ? haven't played it since a long time) post-prod, but to achieve an artistic look that don't please you, because none photo realistic.

Then, like anyone who have an opinion but no argument to back it up, you throw away each counter arguments as if they were just details. Like the fact that game authors have other things to do with their life, or don't have the money to buy the needed computers. This while becoming more and more angry, and by the way less and less coherent, the more you discover that people don't care about you fucking bullshit opinion.

 

[Vengel]

But there's nothing to read in your comments. It's just your non argued opinion, when it's not pure bullshit.

Your whole position rely on the fact that indie guys making games on their free time, do not provide renders with the same level of quality than people who pass a full day on each render, and own $US 20K computers and software for their creations. Well, thanks captain obvious...

And you talk about talent, without being able to see it where it is. This simply because your sole definition of good renders limit to the photo realism of the image. There's effectively talented artists on the scene, peoples like Philly, HopesGaming or Nottravis, among others, who provide quality CGs in regard of the time and computing power they have.
But to see this, one need first to effectively know what he's talking about, and this clearly isn't your case. Else you wouldn't pretend that no one use post-prod, while naming a game like Being a Dik, that use (used ? haven't played it since a long time) post-prod, but to achieve an artistic look that don't please you, because none photo realistic.

Then, like anyone who have an opinion but no argument to back it up, you throw away each counter arguments as if they were just details. Like the fact that game authors have other things to do with their life, or don't have the money to buy the needed computers. This while becoming more and more angry, and by the way less and less coherent, the more you discover that people don't care about you fucking bullshit opinion.

nothing to read but the cliches in your posts too ... but you know ... we still read them

presuming what my sole definition is the mother for a fuck-up ... i pointed out many times that in terms of style there are very few games here and on top of them is - the light of my life. Not very realistic looking and the author has a regular job.
Any other argument that i haven't cover in you copy/pasted opinion from 1000+ other discussion here?

Your opinion on BADIk tells me how much you are not in this conversation - that game actually wants to be realistic looking and fails because of that ...

already pointed out what is missing with a example of a good artists ... how many arguments do you need? 10 ... 1000 ?
or you just like to insert yourself everywhere ...

if this is angry ... i will be careful not to show real anger
also ... if the likes of you knew anything about art - they would have know that the example i gave for a artist (many on his level by the way. he is not some kind of top level dude) is very much leaning into 3d sketch art - not realistic one
And no - there is effectively NO artist among the one you just listed!