VN Ren'Py A Wife and Mother [P2 v0.225 + P1 v0.152] [Lust & Passion]

[GingerSweetGirl]

Just a few points that are a bit incorrect in your posts.

• L&P has never held polls for determining which character should have more content and which character should have less. If that were the case Dylan, Ellie would have events every single day and Liam, Logan and a few others like them would not even be shown.
• And in a previous message you mentioned them as prepubescent children which is an absolutely wrong term to use. Prepubescent refers to an age prior to puberty. Which is generally around the age 10-13.

Now coming to the game those boys are not of that age. This I can base off of the facts mentioned in the game and backed by another statement by L&P later when the outrage was shown. Both are consistent with each other. Thereby making it concrete.

Spoiler: Facts

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So the age of 15-16 is no cover up but the actual ages of the characters based on all the things mentioned in the game.

"I mean, you can call the characters in question of legitimate age all you want, but none of us would buy that they are supposed to depict actual adults"

Atleast I am not calling anyone of legitimate age or adult. Just want to get that clear.
However I would also like to mention that characters like
Dylan and Sam are also 16 ( maybe close to 17 but not 17 yet as per official ages stated by L&P )
Ellie and Julia are also 17 and hence not adults.

• Also an educational fact, since everyone over here keeps calling this pedophilia. It is wrong, this is not pedophilia. Here's the facts

Spoiler: Educational

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This last part is for educational purposes, since I learnt about it recently, I thought why not share the info.

Oh, this is my favorite topic to rant about because it's all such an unforced error. But I'll take it in a different direction because my feelings on the apostles are well known.

The whole issue around age in this game (and SOOOOOO many AVGs) is contrived and really frustrating to me. The mental gymnastics we have to do to make these ages work is just absurd. In this case I'm specifically talking about Sophia (I'll leave the kids out of it for now), because apparently it's just too much to be a desirable woman in her 40s. Instead, we have to cram everything into her life at the earliest possible moment in order for her to be as young as possible, but still old enough to be a MILF. It's both stupid and a little creepy.

This woman did the following:

• graduated high school at 17- ok, that's easy, I did that too.
• Went to college, and completed a biology Masters program in 5 years- These sort of programs do exist, but they're not extremely common and are very strenuous. But it's complicated by the following points.
• Immediately became a professor/lecturer- Wait, what? No college, not a university, not even a community college, is going to hire a professor straight out of a Master's program. You can barely even find adjunct professor positions. These are like the rarest of rare jobs in academia. The idea that a 22 year old woman, with no experience and (presumably) no publishing credits to her resume, would be hired to teach others is absurd.
• Met Liam and got pregnant at ~21- So Liam and Sophia dated, had lots of crazy sex (according to Sophia), and hurried up and got knocked up and married. She did this, all while perusing an INCREDIBLY challenging 5-year Master's program AND immediately getting a job lecturing/teaching in a college setting.
• Sophia gets pregnant again- Ok, so by the age of ~23, Sophia has completed a 5-year intensive program, become a professor (for lack of a better word), gotten married, and had two kids.

Is all of this possible? Yes. Does it pass the smell test? ABSOLUTELY NOT. And my real bitch about it is that it's all so unnecessary. It didn't need to be this contrived so that everyone is just old enough but also just vague enough so you can fit whatever kink you want into the game. It just feels amateurish to me, like "God, I really want to have a MILF, but damn, 40 is just too old, and I want her to fuck her kids...and I want to dance around their exact ages." Would it really have been so bad to do something like:

• Sophia graduated with a Masters degree at the age of 23
• Sophia conducted biological research and published her work at the age of 25
• By the time she was 26 she was an adjunct professor at a local community college, and was working on her next research paper
• Sophia and Liam were married when she turned 27 after she unexpectedly became pregnant with Ellie.
• Sophia became pregnant with Dylan when she was 29 and she left her job to be a stay-at-home mom.

In my telling of the story, Sophia would be ~45 at the start of AWAM if we assume that Ellie is 18. All it would have taken was for L&P to firmly establish an age and commit to the idea that older women can be sexually desirable. But instead he bent over backwards to make sure that Sophia was as young as possible (maybe 40) and leave everything as poorly defined as possible. That drives me nuts. In a game that is all about details, that wants to lean into the whole MILF fetish, the fact that he couldn't openly embrace that Sophia is closer to 50 than she is to 30 is both frustrating and insulting.

 

[Deleted member 3325933]

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L&P, my friend, what is the reason that we are not seeing progress? Please tell me, do we have reasons for serious concern or is everything okay, just need a little patience?

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Patience and trust for something very nice and special!

Sorry , he has burned all the patience and who the hell would trust him after 4 years of lying. If you do I have this bridge in New York I need to sell. Are you interested?

Alternate thought. Instead of the constant BS and chattering just take the time to produce the product.

If he were not self employed he would not be employed. At least not in a private business. He does remind me of a bureaucrat however. Somewhere near the DMV.

 

[VanDarkBalls]

When I hear about the age of character, I remind

In 1941, Renato was 13 years old and although the world was at war, nothing ever happened in this sleepy village in Sicily. Until the day he discovered something that would change his life forever... Malna, the beautiful young war widow who was the obsession of every man and the envy of every woman. Because of her, Renato will come to learn all of life's lessons and find himself in places he never could have imagined.

That is, in movies, even many people don't worry about age, and there are sex scenes between the characters, why the fuck should he even worry about the age of the characters in a fucking porn game?

 

[ancienregimele]

Oh, this is my favorite topic to rant about because it's all such an unforced error. But I'll take it in a different direction because my feelings on the apostles are well known.

The whole issue around age in this game (and SOOOOOO many AVGs) is contrived and really frustrating to me. The mental gymnastics we have to do to make these ages work is just absurd. In this case I'm specifically talking about Sophia (I'll leave the kids out of it for now), because apparently it's just too much to be a desirable woman in her 40s. Instead, we have to cram everything into her life at the earliest possible moment in order for her to be as young as possible, but still old enough to be a MILF. It's both stupid and a little creepy.

This woman did the following:

• graduated high school at 17- ok, that's easy, I did that too.
• Went to college, and completed a biology Masters program in 5 years- These sort of programs do exist, but they're not extremely common and are very strenuous. But it's complicated by the following points.
• Immediately became a professor/lecturer- Wait, what? No college, not a university, not even a community college, is going to hire a professor straight out of a Master's program. You can barely even find adjunct professor positions. These are like the rarest of rare jobs in academia. The idea that a 22 year old woman, with no experience and (presumably) no publishing credits to her resume, would be hired to teach others is absurd.
• Met Liam and got pregnant at ~21- So Liam and Sophia dated, had lots of crazy sex (according to Sophia), and hurried up and got knocked up and married. She did this, all while perusing an INCREDIBLY challenging 5-year Master's program AND immediately getting a job lecturing/teaching in a college setting.
• Sophia gets pregnant again- Ok, so by the age of ~23, Sophia has completed a 5-year intensive program, become a professor (for lack of a better word), gotten married, and had two kids.

Is all of this possible? Yes. Does it pass the smell test? ABSOLUTELY NOT. And my real bitch about it is that it's all so unnecessary. It didn't need to be this contrived so that everyone is just old enough but also just vague enough so you can fit whatever kink you want into the game. It just feels amateurish to me, like "God, I really want to have a MILF, but damn, 40 is just too old, and I want her to fuck her kids...and I want to dance around their exact ages." Would it really have been so bad to do something like:

• Sophia graduated with a Masters degree at the age of 23
• Sophia conducted biological research and published her work at the age of 25
• By the time she was 26 she was an adjunct professor at a local community college, and was working on her next research paper
• Sophia and Liam were married when she turned 27 after she unexpectedly became pregnant with Ellie.
• Sophia became pregnant with Dylan when she was 29 and she left her job to be a stay-at-home mom.

In my telling of the story, Sophia would be ~45 at the start of AWAM if we assume that Ellie is 18. All it would have taken was for L&P to firmly establish an age and commit to the idea that older women can be sexually desirable. But instead he bent over backwards to make sure that Sophia was as young as possible (maybe 40) and leave everything as poorly defined as possible. That drives me nuts. In a game that is all about details, that wants to lean into the whole MILF fetish, the fact that he couldn't openly embrace that Sophia is closer to 50 than she is to 30 is both frustrating and insulting.

There's still a societal barrier at 40 & it's been perceived as the start of middle age in western cultures for a long time. I think, (don't definitely know), that L&P might have attracted fewer younger fans with a 40+ MC, even though this would have been more realistic. It's irrational & yes it's insulting but in RL it gets worse. When you turn 50, you become invisible!

 

[Bill_Buttlicker]

When I hear about the age of character, I remind

In 1941, Renato was 13 years old and although the world was at war, nothing ever happened in this sleepy village in Sicily. Until the day he discovered something that would change his life forever... Malna, the beautiful young war widow who was the obsession of every man and the envy of every woman. Because of her, Renato will come to learn all of life's lessons and find himself in places he never could have imagined.

That is, in movies, even many people don't worry about age, and there are sex scenes between the characters, why the fuck should he even worry about the age of the characters in a fucking porn game?


View attachment 1605130 View attachment 1605128 View attachment 1605129

What movie was this?

 

[VanDarkBalls]

What movie was this?

This is a world classic with Monica Bellucci

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[VanDarkBalls]

l'iniziazione, 1986 Take two
Roger (Fabrice Josso) is a 16-year-old who seeks to lose his virginity in this softcore erotic drama. His initial efforts are unsuccessful, but World War I breaks out and men are seen marching off to battle. Roger goes overboard when he is presented with several amorous opportunities. He soon impregnates the maid, his aunt, and his sister in quick succession. Roger desperately tries to marry off the women to other men to avoid a lurid scandal.

 

[DanThaMan]

l'iniziazione, 1986 Take two
Roger (Fabrice Josso) is a 16-year-old who seeks to lose his virginity in this softcore erotic drama. His initial efforts are unsuccessful, but World War I breaks out and men are seen marching off to battle. Roger goes overboard when he is presented with several amorous opportunities. He soon impregnates the maid, his aunt, and his sister in quick succession. Roger desperately tries to marry off the women to other men to avoid a lurid scandal.
View attachment 1605158 View attachment 1605157 View attachment 1605159

Have you ever seen Blue Lagoon? It has sex secenes between brother and sister and actually has a 15 year old girl in it and full nudity.. it definitely wouldn't be able to be released today lol

 

[VanDarkBalls]

Have you ever seen Blue Lagoon? It has sex secenes between brother and sister and actually has a 15 year old girl in it and full nudity.. it definitely wouldn't be able to be released today lol

I just don't understand the hypocritical reproaches against L&P

 

[GingerSweetGirl]

I get what you mean about Sophia's life. As for the job, Sophia has been said to be from a family with an academic background if I am right ( maybe someone could just check it for me ). So getting a job in the academic field should have been easy with her parents connections.

No no no, this is the definition of mental gymnastics. Parents in academia don't just snap their fingers, call in some favors, and get you a job. Is there corruption and nepotism in academia, sure, but now we're going to assume that it would be "easy" for her parents to get her a job as a professor? Absolutely not. If that were the case then no kid with parents who are professors would ever struggle to get a job.

Also, let's address the elephant in the room- a college educated woman with college educated parents getting pregnant in her early 20s. As educational attainment increases, the average age for a woman's first birth increases proportionally. The median age at the time of first birth for a woman with a master's degree is 30. There's additional research that I've read elsewhere that women coming from highly educated families will wait even longer- so a woman with a master's degree from uneducated parents may wait until 30; while a woman with a master's degree with parents who also have master's degrees may wait (on median) until she's 32.

The point is that, in order for Sophia to give birth at 21 she would not only have to be incredibly busy in her life but would also shatter statistical trends that have existed for decades.

And yeah, maybe I'm overthinking it, but that isn't my fault. It's a glarring error that a creator would concoct such a story and not overthink it. Clearly L&P thought about this topic, he's clearly an educated person himself. But it's like he only half-assed the work enough to please his kink and didn't bother with all the rest. That lack of attention to detail matters though because it has created continuity issues that are glaring if you stop to think about them at all. And this is a game that wants to attract more than the typical audience only interested in a quick wank/jill.

You could even say that this is just another example of L&P's spotty organizational skills. He had an idea, but didn't really think it all the way through.

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[jamdan]

Sophia's educational background was overexposed. We never needed to know any of those things. Are they interesting? I guess so, but they aren't important in the grand scheme of things. This is a slice of life game, you don't need this level of background info for that style of game. If this were some fantasy type game or a game with an overarching plot, it'd be more relevant.

But continuing this thread of discussion. Sophia is a highly educated woman. Who also said she and Liam did lot's of sexual stuff in those days, obviously as they had 2 kids in a very short timespan.

So, to me, the big ? is how is a sexually expierenced, highly educated woman can be so...I'm not sure of a nice way to say it. But gulible and easily manipulated. I alluded to this in my review from a while ago. Sophia acts like a sheltered and naive person too often. While she is obviously, from her own background lore, is neither of those things.

This is another inconsistency. Mismatching a characters persona with a background that doesn't quite add up. This also bleeds into some of the routes, I assume a person from a wealthy (and thus, I assume, somewhat influential and powerful) family shouldn't be blackmailed so easily. Especailly from people in her own school.

 

[palmtrees89]

They definitely are older looking than "prepubescent" children.

Now, we accept all the other facts of the game and use it as argument, eg. Dylan is 16, Ellie is a virgin, San alejo is a hot place, Aiden's uncle is a powerful lawyer, Morello is a mafia boss, Sophia loves her children a lot etc. Everything mentioned in the game is used as a fact of the world the game is in.

Suddenly refusing one of the facts is just your personal choice.

These dialogues were written way back when he didn't even know how the people will react to the storyline. He wanted to show them a little younger than Dylan and Sam and he did that. If that makes them immediately below 11 yr old to you then that's just you bending things as you see fit.

But that doesn't change the facts of the game. They are not the age you say they are. I have proved the point. Unless you can prove it wrong there is no point in talking further about it.

As for your point about looking younger. Julia looks far far younger than a 17 yr old. Never seen you complain about that.

As for the other thing you said :-
"to create content only according to those results. I didn't even say that there was a poll on "which character should have more content"

View attachment 1605126

You have directly contradicted yourself or you didn't phrase your words right initially. You can't put the blame on me for misunderstanding.

As for the pedo thing, I did mention it is for educational purposes. I came across the differences recently so I thought why not share it while we are on the topic. I have mentioned that too in that previous message. You didn't read it.

You're a lost cause, buddy. You're trying so hard bending reality and things I said just to make it fitting for you, it's almost like you're in denial. If you can't process what I'm saying, it might be better not to reply at all.

By the way, above statement applies not only for the replies to my posts, as can be seen in your discussion with GingerSweetGirl aswell as your arguments with ViperDonkey before, and probably many others I can't think of right now. I'm gonna steal the term mental gymnastics from GingerSweetGirl as i find it to be a very fitting term here.

 

[nexer]

Oh, this is my favorite topic to rant about because it's all such an unforced error. But I'll take it in a different direction because my feelings on the apostles are well known.

The whole issue around age in this game (and SOOOOOO many AVGs) is contrived and really frustrating to me. The mental gymnastics we have to do to make these ages work is just absurd. In this case I'm specifically talking about Sophia (I'll leave the kids out of it for now), because apparently it's just too much to be a desirable woman in her 40s. Instead, we have to cram everything into her life at the earliest possible moment in order for her to be as young as possible, but still old enough to be a MILF. It's both stupid and a little creepy.

This woman did the following:

• graduated high school at 17- ok, that's easy, I did that too.
• Went to college, and completed a biology Masters program in 5 years- These sort of programs do exist, but they're not extremely common and are very strenuous. But it's complicated by the following points.
• Immediately became a professor/lecturer- Wait, what? No college, not a university, not even a community college, is going to hire a professor straight out of a Master's program. You can barely even find adjunct professor positions. These are like the rarest of rare jobs in academia. The idea that a 22 year old woman, with no experience and (presumably) no publishing credits to her resume, would be hired to teach others is absurd.
• Met Liam and got pregnant at ~21- So Liam and Sophia dated, had lots of crazy sex (according to Sophia), and hurried up and got knocked up and married. She did this, all while perusing an INCREDIBLY challenging 5-year Master's program AND immediately getting a job lecturing/teaching in a college setting.
• Sophia gets pregnant again- Ok, so by the age of ~23, Sophia has completed a 5-year intensive program, become a professor (for lack of a better word), gotten married, and had two kids.

Is all of this possible? Yes. Does it pass the smell test? ABSOLUTELY NOT. And my real bitch about it is that it's all so unnecessary. It didn't need to be this contrived so that everyone is just old enough but also just vague enough so you can fit whatever kink you want into the game. It just feels amateurish to me, like "God, I really want to have a MILF, but damn, 40 is just too old, and I want her to fuck her kids...and I want to dance around their exact ages." Would it really have been so bad to do something like:

• Sophia graduated with a Masters degree at the age of 23
• Sophia conducted biological research and published her work at the age of 25
• By the time she was 26 she was an adjunct professor at a local community college, and was working on her next research paper
• Sophia and Liam were married when she turned 27 after she unexpectedly became pregnant with Ellie.
• Sophia became pregnant with Dylan when she was 29 and she left her job to be a stay-at-home mom.

In my telling of the story, Sophia would be ~45 at the start of AWAM if we assume that Ellie is 18. All it would have taken was for L&P to firmly establish an age and commit to the idea that older women can be sexually desirable. But instead he bent over backwards to make sure that Sophia was as young as possible (maybe 40) and leave everything as poorly defined as possible. That drives me nuts. In a game that is all about details, that wants to lean into the whole MILF fetish, the fact that he couldn't openly embrace that Sophia is closer to 50 than she is to 30 is both frustrating and insulting.

What an angry woman we have here . Love
Firstly, if you read a few stories on liberotica you'll find that 38 is a very common age. Something has to be.

Secondly a teaching career starts immediately after the master's degree. What this person does, teaches students, helps in specific activities, ... I guess it depends on the lack of staff/capabilities of that person. Let's imagine she didn't work at a very rich university. So we can leave it at that.

Now, barring exceptional genetic inheritance combined with lots of sport, 45-50 is an age of many transformations in people's lives.
Usually it's the face that hides age (treatments, make-up), but if we go down: skin on the abdomen, skin on the thighs ....
You can slow down the process with iron discipline, but
Big Question: does such a "self-disciplined" woman give in so easily to temptation?

 

[palmtrees89]

I will just say straight and simple.

I have proven my word with actual facts from the game and definitions. That is not "my opinion" that is fact from the game. Unless you can prove it wrong. You are the one in denial.

You directly contradicted yourself and have the audacity to say I am in denial. Then not providing anything of substance except for "I don't agree with you " against whatever I said and then say I am denial.
Goes to show who really is in a state Denial.

As for the point with Gingersweetgirl, I agree with her but there are slight discrepancies in our outlooks and I have admitted that in my message. Don't try to rope in people that in order to negate what I am saying.

You sure did prove alot today, but not much of it had anything to do with the game. You do you, buddy.

 

[nexer]

No no no, this is the definition of mental gymnastics. Parents in academia don't just snap their fingers, call in some favors, and get you a job. Is there corruption and nepotism in academia, sure, but now we're going to assume that it would be "easy" for her parents to get her a job as a professor? Absolutely not. If that were the case then no kid with parents who are professors would ever struggle to get a job.

Also, let's address the elephant in the room- a college educated woman with college educated parents getting pregnant in her early 20s. As educational attainment increases, the average age for a woman's first birth increases proportionally. The median age at the time of first birth for a woman with a master's degree is 30. There's additional research that I've read elsewhere that women coming from highly educated families will wait even longer- so a woman with a master's degree from uneducated parents may wait until 30; while a woman with a master's degree with parents who also have master's degrees may wait (on median) until she's 32.

The point is that, in order for Sophia to give birth at 21 she would not only have to be incredibly busy in her life but would also shatter statistical trends that have existed for decades.

And yeah, maybe I'm overthinking it, but that isn't my fault. It's a glarring error that a creator would concoct such a story and not overthink it. Clearly L&P thought about this topic, he's clearly an educated person himself. But it's like he only half-assed the work enough to please his kink and didn't bother with all the rest. That lack of attention to detail matters though because it has created continuity issues that are glaring if you stop to think about them at all. And this is a game that wants to attract more than the typical audience only interested in a quick wank/jill.

You could even say that this is just another example of L&P's spotty organizational skills. He had an idea, but didn't really think it all the way through.

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There may be different education systems and therefore differences. L&P applies the German reality to the American system, hence the difference.
As for children, I think you are using current statistics and applying them to a reality of 20 years ago. Wrong.
And the picture of the two in the article, Meghan and Harry, is definitely not correct. Harry was looking for a "politically" suitable wife, and Meghan ... a woman with too much ambition. Aside from "Suits," ....

 

[Alley_Cat]

Sophia's educational background was overexposed. We never needed to know any of those things. Are they interesting? I guess so, but they aren't important in the grand scheme of things. This is a slice of life game, you don't need this level of background info for that style of game. If this were some fantasy type game or a game with an overarching plot, it'd be more relevant.

But continuing this thread of discussion. Sophia is a highly educated woman. Who also said she and Liam did lot's of sexual stuff in those days, obviously as they had 2 kids in a very short timespan.

So, to me, the big ? is how is a sexually expierenced, highly educated woman can be so...I'm not sure of a nice way to say it. But gulible and easily manipulated. I alluded to this in my review from a while ago. Sophia acts like a sheltered and naive person too often. While she is obviously, from her own background lore, is neither of those things.

This is another inconsistency. Mismatching a characters persona with a background that doesn't quite add up. This also bleeds into some of the routes, I assume a person from a wealthy (and thus, I assume, somewhat influential and powerful) family shouldn't be blackmailed so easily. Especailly from people in her own school.

She only gets blackmailed easily because players choose it. I call Aiden a "two-bit tryhard" simply because his attempts at blackmail are so weak. There is no real consequence to refusing his demands, and Sophia is better connected enough that a member of the family can get Dylan into a better school two days after Aiden's demands are made.

And even if with Dylan at boarding school he gets discovered by Aiden and beaten up, what possible reason could Aiden assert that doesn't put him as the instigator?

 

[nexer]

This is a world classic with Monica Bellucci

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another one.

 

[RUSSIAN MAFIA]

Spoiler: For Sofia, we have arrived!

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[Bane71]

Developer: Lust & Passion

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Thank you for adding Subscribe star!

I have one more request and suggestion.
We can see that these images have been around for quite some time:

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Since these images were posted, the game has moved quite far forward.
In my opinion, it would be great to add a dozen or even a half new images from subsequent updates!
I think this is useful for those who visit the pages of this forum for the first time and get acquainted with the post containing these images.

 

[palmtrees89]

The whole conversation is about Myer boys and you say it isn't about the game.

Not like I didn't see it coming, but that's not what I meant.