VN Ren'Py A Wife and Mother [v0.201] [Lust & Passion]

[ddascft]

Ah so sadly at this point its almost guaranteed this game will be abandoned in the near future, we're now looking at 26+ years...

Dev's making a fortune. Makes sense for them to squeeze it out for as long as possible. As long as people keep paying they can work out the bare-minimum amount of work needed and spend the rest of the time pimping out their Jaguar. It's just maths.

 

[cloudstrife]

That's not true. I understand what you mean. But painter in particular is a bad example. There are many paintings in which one can prove that they have been painted over or changed many times. The "Mona Lisa" is an exceptional example. Loeonardo da Vinci changed the details again and again until the end of his life. Although I definitely don't want to see L&P compared to Leonardo!

Yeah and if you dig down deep enough you find out Mona Lisa had a beard lol

 

[cloudstrife]

You've nailed it. It's gonna be tough to articulate my thoughts better than this.

I'm quite surprised one of the main themes of this thread still revolves around the "development issues" and tips on how to ease the unbearable burden of the dev. I simply don't see any chance at this point that L&P somehow pinpoints and hires anyone, who would suit his tastes and criterias. He's satisfied with his workflow and cashflow, that's what matters.

You're absolutely correct mentioning so-called problems and the ways of solving them from the locals. How fun.
Now we'll have 0.130 with twice the quantity of renders, as it used to be planned previously. What a nightmare. Apparently, an update can't be longer than 100-150 renders. Or less. And we gonna have to go back to 720p image quality, preferably to 360p but that, perhaps, is slightly too much.

I vividly recall complaints and whinings here about low resolution of the images, that 720p was unacceptable and when he finally bumped up the quality without upscaling it later, what do I read? You, guys, gonna have to come to some decision. That's the tip of the iceberg.

He's been making AWAM for years now. Is he deliberately dragging the process aka "milking his patrons"? No, but there's no limit to perfection and that's the dark side of the Moon.
Guess, his motto is "Can't stop, won't stop!" once he starts working on each and every update and when it bloats to gigantic proportions, well, it's a side effect of his artistic nature.

I actually think that if L&P did hire someone to help him all it would really do is give him more opportunity to add even more images to each event, so wouldn't really speed up development. Doesn't bother me though, I just enjoy playing the game regardless of how long it takes

 

[Bane71]

Agree, I think L&P should just come clean on this point: they do not want to recruit help and have no intention of doing so. Like so many have said before, it's L&P's project and they have complete discretion over its development and content. Which is as it should be. It's the lame excuses - and by lame I don't mean to discredit the decision to not acquire help - which are contradicted by so many collaborative projects found here and throughout the start-up world. Just say it clearly and stop flailing about.

The fact of the matter is that it's not true! Why would he confirm someone's thoughts about him? He looked for help and continues to look, but he does it slowly and carefully, since it is difficult to trust distant, unfamiliar people.

Why would he cheat ?!

I'm sure if he refuses to search for an assistant, he will say about it publicly.

Probably these claims come from people who offered him cooperation, but were rejected. This is my guess.

 

[Bane71]

I actually think that if L&P did hire someone to help him all it would really do is give him more opportunity to add even more images to each event, so wouldn't really speed up development. Doesn't bother me though, I just enjoy playing the game regardless of how long it takes

Very often, hiring someone means buying a huge bunch of problems! Don't forget this.

 

[GingerSweetGirl]

I don't think L&P wants to build a team. This is his project and he wants to work alone. I made peace with that a long time ago. I think if he chose to he could build a team, which could proportionally raise revenue and could then justify a small studio. But that isn't his ambition. That's fine, but it comes with trade offs, namely in the form of long development cycles.

My fear is that over the next 12 months the growing complexity of the narrative, combined with his focus on both quantity and quality of renders, is going to result in development times steadily increasing. By 2022, two releases a year may be best case scenario. From there it's anyone's guess how patrons will respond. But I would hate to see the bottom fall out of his economic model and threaten the future of the game.

 

[RUSSIAN MAFIA]

Fuck thinking and guessing, everyone will get fucked, don't worry....

 

[hzjujk]

How about if Aiden takes sophia to an art college as her third assignment, as a nude model. That wouldn't have anything to do with the motorcycle suit that L&P is trying to mislead us with. That would also explain the many hours that the developer worked with light and colors on the pictures. We could look forward to breathtaking pictures of Sophia. And it would explain the remark "touching arms and shoulders" after the event which Sophia would surely be totally tense.

 

[trupervent10001]

How about if Aiden takes sophia to an art college as her third assignment, as a nude model. That wouldn't have anything to do with the motorcycle suit that L&P is trying to mislead us with. That would also explain the many hours that the developer worked with light and colors on the pictures. We could look forward to breathtaking pictures of Sophia. And it would explain the remark "touching arms and shoulders" after which Sophia would surely be totally tense.

L&P think he was just joking))) there will be more of everything

 

[Bane71]

I don't think L&P wants to build a team. This is his project and he wants to work alone. I made peace with that a long time ago. I think if he chose to he could build a team, which could proportionally raise revenue and could then justify a small studio. But that isn't his ambition. That's fine, but it comes with trade offs, namely in the form of long development cycles.

My fear is that over the next 12 months the growing complexity of the narrative, combined with his focus on both quantity and quality of renders, is going to result in development times steadily increasing. By 2022, two releases a year may be best case scenario. From there it's anyone's guess how patrons will respond. But I would hate to see the bottom fall out of his economic model and threaten the future of the game.

You and we can all think whatever we want. But this does not mean that our opinion is true!

It can be assumed that the L&P is deceiving us all, but we cannot speak in the affirmative about it, because it is wrong and dishonest.

 

[abram1]

Stop being ridiculous, literally no one wants what you're suggesting; particularly about the renders. 500 renders for a 30 minutes update is a ton of renders, we would celebrate that amount of effort. The problem is that he did 800 for the same amount of gameplay. That's a backbreaking amount of work. I won't call them "redundant" because thats too dismissive of his efforts, but it's simply an unnecessary amount of work. He's killing himself and delaying the game while committing the crime of diminishing returns.

And this game was GORGEOUS in 720p, did your eyes bleed while looking at it? I was a patron when the decision was made to go to 1080. I sent emails and left comments that I didn't think it was worth the effort if it slowed development. The difference between the two is noticable, but it's minor. He's a great artist, I had no complaints at 720, so for the sake of consistency I wanted to be clear on this topic.

But to the point, yes it is exhausting to be so negative. I hate it. I've voiced my issues to death at this point, I can't keep doing it. I also want to like the next update and I want to give it an honest/fair chance. If I keep being negative I fear that I'll bias myself and never be able to enjoy it. I hope it blows me away and makes me think the wait was worth it.

Here we go again. But I'll take "ridiculous" as a compliment this time, thank you.
500 pictures = good, 800 = bad, 1000+ = very-very bad. 0.100 was the worst of them all, then (sorry, can't do anything with myself). You, guys, are fixating on this game too much, as I see it. Is there nothing else to do in the world?

720p - you've totally missed my standpoint. But that's ok, ain't gonna criticize.
Hate is a really strong word in the context of this VN. I'm teasing, sometimes trolling folks, no harm done. Go buy yourself your favorite ice cream, cheer up. It's only a forum about some stupid never ending VN. There is a bunch of much more interesting stuff out there.

Goog 'Fallacy of the single cause' example
If many have spoken about this, it is because L&P first mentioned this point among these objectives. (was that realistic ? I don't know)
There have been some great other ideas that have come up on this feed, and the artistic part is not the only area where action can be taken.


Goog straw man example.
As a reminder : 'The straw man fallacy involves misrepresenting an opponent’s position to make it easier to refute. Straw man arguments often oversimplify opposing views or disregard inconvenient points in favor of points that are easy to argue against.'

No one has offered versions with 100-150 renderings, nor to revert to 360p resolution.

People were worried about the rise in resolution, because we were starting to see release dates that were becoming more and more spaced out.

Artistically, L&P has an additive approach, if we were talking about economics, we would say a Ricardian thought: new possibilities are available to him, he seizes them. This is rather a good thing because I see too much the risks of some other approaches. However, there are also risks in the additive approach. One of the major ones is to fall behind.


Totally agree, I admire the tenacity of L&P. A lot of games are abandoned after a few releases, he sticks to his project, and he has all my respect for that.

PS Don't be mad at me for the first two points : it's for debate, your views are valid in part.

Thank you, Zigmund, I'll take notes.
I'm more than sure you've read this, focus on the last paragraph. It's a little bit more complex, than the frase, you've decided to highlight.
Next one. I think it's called exagerration, blowing out of proportions or hyperbole. That's used sometimes in literature, in books for different reasons. Go figure.

What's the percentage of respondents, having been voiced their minds on an increase of image quality? The miniscule vocal minority.
It would've been fantastic getting 4-5 updates per year, as of right now it's more than unlikely.

 

[trupervent10001]

L&P he really read this forum, since the topic of massage has been discussed for a long time, he even lol responded to this message, he even didn't care about anything else

 

[Old Dog]

I still don't think that we have seen the full contents of Aiden's bag and Aiden wanted Sophia to wear leathers for a laugh.
Ok I will leave you peeps and I am off to finish my render.

 

[Old Dog]

L&P he really read this forum, since the topic of massage has been discussed for a long time, he even lol responded to this message, he even didn't care about anything else

At a guess I would say that maybe the massage has more to do with Dylan than Aiden but this is a guess.

 

[GingerSweetGirl]

You and we can all think whatever we want. But this does not mean that our opinion is true!

It can be assumed that the L&P is deceiving us all, but we cannot speak in the affirmative about it, because it is wrong and dishonest.

I didn't accuse him of deceiving us?

 

[Bane71]

I didn't accuse him of deceiving us?

I suppose you did not blame him, but you said that you do not believe that he is looking for help.

He recently announced that he is in search, but it is difficult. He listed the reasons why it is not easy.
That is why I assume that if he gives up his attempts to find an assistant, he will declare this publicly. He has absolutely no reason to cheat.

 

[GingerSweetGirl]

I suppose you did not blame him, but you said that you do not believe that he is looking for help.

He recently announced that he is in search, but it is difficult. He listed the reasons why it is not easy.
That is why I assume that if he gives up his attempts to find an assistant, he will declare this publicly. He has absolutely no reason to cheat.

I see, I didn't mean it so literally. I'm sure he keeps his eye out for help. What I mean is that in his heart I don't think he's overly eager for the help. He'll take the help if he finds someone absolutely perfect, but otherwise I think he'd rather work alone. And thats ok, it just comes with a trade off.

 

[BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM]

No the question is why are you so adamant that he work with someone else? It's his project. If he wants to complete it all by himself that's his choice. He's not required to get another person just because you think he needs to.

Why can't I say what I think about a project I'm supporting?

 

[Френсис]

version 140 came out or is it not?

 

[Bane71]

I see, I didn't mean it so literally. I'm sure he keeps his eye out for help. What I mean is that in his heart I don't think he's overly eager for the help. He'll take the help if he finds someone absolutely perfect, but otherwise I think he'd rather work alone. And thats ok, it just comes with a trade off.

In this I agree with you 100%!