VN Ren'Py A Wife and Mother [v0.205b] [Lust & Passion]

[Yonamous]

So, in your mind, it is impossible to even have any sexual thoughts about, let's say, about your sister? Even if she could easily give a run for the money for a bunch of supermodels? Not even any erotic dreams?
As you said, you think that it's impossible. I'm not talking about anything even close to actual incest here. Did I understand you correctly?
I'm not picking a fight here. I'm just interested.

It's not common because of the Westermarck effect . Family members have a reverse imprinting on each other when they grow up with each other, you can't see them as sexual objects regardless of how attractive they are. If you're not a close family, or you never grew up with them, or left for a while and they matured, then this effect will be broken or gone. But otherwise the Westermarck effect is why incest insn't all that common. Something within our own bodies attempts to prevent it.

 

[Iggybousse]

This game is so good, I can't remember a renpy game I enjoyed reading so much.
It's actually telling a decent story. Only wish it was going a little faster, not much, just a bit.
It's becoming too slow I noticed at the end. Need to keep players hooked and not enough is happening after a very long read in my opinion.

But overall, I really enjoyed this one.

 

[Alice Bunny]

While your explanation is reasonable from a logical perspective (and I did wonder if the family connection was the case after doing my tests and noticing that the other lesbian routes were still viable, even if Ellie and Patricia were not) I think this is a case where logic is getting in the way of good gameplay. And while the concept of needing to be more filthy in order to cross the lines with family members makes sense logically, the logic in requiring male interactions does not. The message you're basically sending here is that Sophia needs to be a cock hungry slut who flirts with every male she comes into contact with in order to consider a relationship with one or two women who are in her family. That is not logical. Look at the post directly above your one where I did a bunch of tests, you literally have to choose almost every Filthy male interaction to scrape through for Ellie's crucial late game choices. At the very least if filthy points were required I think you should get enough from Patricia's various goading in order to at least unlock certain scenes, such as the gym shower one and the teasing at the park, but it's not. And it snowballs quickly.

The overall point is that perhaps I was mistaken, but you painted this game as being one with a lot of freedom and paths and options to pursue, but it's abundantly clear that's not the case. I did the tests, you basically only have three routes: Pure Good Wife, Complete Filthy Wife and Sam+Dylan Filthy. Lesbian would be a possible forth, but you cut two of the options out on that path, and if you want Ellie and/or Patricia you have to pretty much go down the Filthy Route. You may consider these limitations realism, but I play a game for fun, and to me it just makes it frustrating and the opposite of fun, because the game makes it look like there are viable options ahead of you but then it just trolls you and whips the carpet out from under you, and the whole thing snowballs so quickly because it denies you so many chances and choices that it makes those options impossible.

You could probably say that this game isn't for me, but the fact is that that it really was. It was head-and-shoulders my favourite VN on these forums for a long time because I loved the slow build up, how things played out, the characters, etc. but it was just in the last few updates that these steep restrictions frustrated me and then I went back and discovered content was just disappearing on certain paths.

To me this isn't just taste, it's poorly designed. I'm sorry, but it just is IMO. A good visual novel (or even a good RPG with romancable characters) doesn't put options in front of you and then deny them to you because you didn't pursue other characters. Like I said in an earlier post, this would be like if Dragon Age: Origins didn't let you culminate your romance with Leliana because you weren't trying to fuck Allister, Zevran and Morrigan too. The progression system here is bad because you have characters that are set up as potential romantic partners, and you can make all the right moves with them, but because you didn't do a bunch of things not even related to them directly you lose out on content and they become impossible to pursue. I don't recall playing any other VN's here that have this bizarre progression behind them. All the good ones reward you for making the right choices with the character you're pursuing and do so via interactions with that character, not with arbitrarily different ones. They don't cut you off and deny content because you didn't flirt with another character. In fact, some of them will penalize you for getting friendly with another character.

I mean, you yourself say "In the fitting room scene at day 13 you can get the lesbian point even if you don't have enough filthy points to answer Ellie on her underwear question, what just costs you an Ellie point and not a lesbian temptation point!" and that seems to miss the point. Yes, you can get the lesbian point. But what you cannot get are the three required Ellie points in order to unlock the seemingly key scene the next morning. So at this point it looks like Ellie is no longer an option if you miss that. It's also frustrating because it's so sudden that you hit the wall. Almost all the Ellie interactions up until then have no limitations and are just choices you can make that give you Ellie points. You can even rub lotion on her back and even butt and it doesn't cost a thing to do. So you have the odd Ellie moment for a while, coasting along fine, and handily reach 7 Ellie points with no barriers. And suddenly... BAMM!!! You're thrown this 21 Filthy requirement out of seemingly nowhere. For a scene where you don't even touch her. It's jarring as hell! It also seems to suggest that the content of the scene isn't as crucial as where it's placed in the game chronologically (i.e. the scene happens later, so therefore it is automatically more lewd?). I get that the scene is perhaps more suggestive in the banter than the pool scene, but it's not a whole 21 points vs. 0 more lewd.

Anyway I'm rambling... and I'm probably wasting my time. It would probably take a lot of work for you to alter things at this stage, and you probably don't want to anyway. But that's how I feel about the game. There was a lot of potential here and I like the overall style and characters. But I just feel that the progression system isn't very good and is pretty counter-intuitive, and it gives players the illusion that some paths and characters are possible that simply aren't. If I was going to offer a solution it would be to either massively reduce the Filthy requirements in certain scenes or allow Lesbian Temptation and perhaps even character points to add to the overall required total (i.e. perhaps instead of needing 21 Filthy points you simply need 21 points overall that can pool from Filthy, Lesbian and Ellie).

Overall I just think it's a shame that a game with such promise it let down by a bad progression system like this.

yeah, that is how i see it too i wanted to just go for girls in one attempt but had to do all the stuff with the guys at the gym and everywhere else, really?

 

[bagodoughnuts]

Actualy bestiality is more common than incest in RL.BTW the dev must know it.Germany is well known for realy big bestiality community.Still incest is way more common than you want to believe.

I like both!

 

[armion82]

I really don't want to sound like an asshole but games like this should come with a warning. What i mean by that is there should be something telling you that you are about to speed 2-3+ hours clicking through images and texts and millions of fades to black and not even get a single kissing scene let alone anything remotely sexual.

I mean seriously props to the developer on the sheer amount of story, all the girls also look attractive as hell but Jesus Christ how is there nothing remotely sexual in this game with this much content?

I guess it ultimately doesn't matter either way because somehow the developer is earning 4k a month on it lol.

Again no hate here, i just wished there was some warning as i avoid comment sections for possible spoilers and now i regret that i have because i wished i read somewhere that i will be glued to the screen for about 3 hours with blue balls.

Then stay away from Something Unlimited.3+ years and 37 updates later MC can fuck 3 from 30+ girls
For A Wife and Mother you better try again around march next year.

 

[fauxplayer]

I really don't want to sound like an asshole but games like this should come with a warning. What i mean by that is there should be something telling you that you are about to speed 2-3+ hours clicking through images and texts and millions of fades to black and not even get a single kissing scene let alone anything remotely sexual.

There are 311 pages of posts commenting on the lack of sexual content. What more warning did you need?

 

[fauxplayer]

The message you're basically sending here is that Sophia needs to be a cock hungry slut who flirts with every male she comes into contact with in order to consider a relationship with one or two women who are in her family.

The overall point is that perhaps I was mistaken, but you painted this game as being one with a lot of freedom and paths and options to pursue, but it's abundantly clear that's not the case. I did the tests, you basically only have three routes: Pure Good Wife, Complete Filthy Wife and Sam+Dylan Filthy. Lesbian would be a possible forth, but you cut two of the options out on that path, and if you want Ellie and/or Patricia you have to pretty much go down the Filthy Route.

Thanks for the efforts on testing out those paths and variables! I agree with your premise that it woulda-coulda-shoulda been better if Sophia had a choice to get closer to Ellie and/or Patricia without needing to flirt with her son's high-school friend, etc. But you're doing some speculative extrapolation here to conclude that these paths are set on rails. It's quite possible that once Sophia builds up enough filthy points early on in the story, it will unlock the options to pursue Ellie and/or Patricia without her becoming a "cock hungry slut." It makes sense that Sophia needs to build up filthy points to make her relatives viable sexual partners. She'll get more comfortable flirting with guys and girls alike, being more of an exhibitionist, then even a tease. In other words, there's a lot of time left for Sophia to develop filthy points that make her sexually open and remove barriers without any actual sexual contact with other men (as the dev points out, more than half the filthy points in the whole game are already in play and we're, what 15-20% into it?). Like you, I will be disappointed if it continues to be this way indefinitely moving forward. If the only way for the player to eventually get scenes with Sophia and Ellie is to start fucking all the guys in the story first, that is poor design IMO as well, but it seems a leap to assume that's the case when the game is still just only getting started.

 

[lesbiaN7ncest]

Thanks for the efforts on testing out those paths and variables! I agree with your premise that it woulda-coulda-shoulda been better if Sophia had a choice to get closer to Ellie and/or Patricia without needing to flirt with her son's high-school friend, etc. But you're doing some speculative extrapolation here to conclude that these paths are set on rails. It's quite possible that once Sophia builds up enough filthy points early on in the story, it will unlock the options to pursue Ellie and/or Patricia without her becoming a "cock hungry slut." It makes sense that Sophia needs to build up filthy points to make her relatives viable sexual partners. She'll get more comfortable flirting with guys and girls alike, being more of an exhibitionist, then even a tease. In other words, there's a lot of time left for Sophia to develop filthy points that make her sexually open and remove barriers without any actual sexual contact with other men (as the dev points out, more than half the filthy points in the whole game are already in play and we're, what 15-20% into it?). Like you, I will be disappointed if it continues to be this way indefinitely moving forward. If the only way for the player to eventually get scenes with Sophia and Ellie is to start fucking all the guys in the story first, that is poor design IMO as well, but it seems a leap to assume that's the case when the game is still just only getting started.

While you could very well be correct, the speculation is based largely on three major factors:

1) How two major Ellie scenes are unattainable, the latter of which is presented like it's a major setup for her (in fact L&P basically said that it's what starts off the Ellie path proper). If you do get it through the Filthy path it's presented in this fashion because it strongly hints at future opportunities with her directly related to this event being able to trigger.
2) How few Patricia opportunities and points you get, and how so many of her scenes and chances for points are cut short unless you're on the Filthy path. She's not as bad as Ellie gets, but you miss out on more than half her points if you're trying a Lesbian path. And as I noted in my tests, ironically you have a better chance of trigger several of her scenes if you're ignoring her early stuff and focusing more on the boys.
3) How much the requirements snowball. When things don't even get remotely close to attainable so very, very fast it makes it seem like it's an uphill battle that you'll never be able to reach.

Overall, I still think it's bad design to have romantic options that if you pursue directly and intentionally you fail at attaining, but if you chase others it makes it easier. It's very bass-ackwards to me. Especially when you have stuff like Patricia events not triggering when you go for her, but triggering easier when you go for the boys.

 

[EnterpriseNL]

Is a CG in the making

 

[NeroZee]

There are 311 pages of posts commenting on the lack of sexual content. What more warning did you need?

I am guessing you missed the part where i said i purposefully avoided reading the comments for spoilers, which is what i do for every game until i play it through myself.

 

[CrysusPariah]

Anybody knwo when the Mac version of v0.055 will be available?

 

[fortuna95]

What? Really?

That's not true!!

 

[Deximay]

Just wanted to thank the dev for the well thought out story in this game rather than give in into the "gimme boobies" crowd, there's a whole lot of other games outta there to attend to those people, but to actually build something with the characters in the story rather than to have them be sex toys are rather refreshing, so, thanks, keep doing what you doing. That's it. Thanks.

 

[Goblin Baily: DILF]

I've reached day 11, how many more days are there?

 

[dima1986]

I've reached day 11, how many more days are there?

A lot of. It is necessary to distinguish between calendar and game day. In the game time jumps for a week, when the husband was on a business trip. Update 0.055 and 0.06 is on Day 14, this is the 7th game day. There are 30 game days in the game.

 

[Goblin Baily: DILF]

A lot of. It is necessary to distinguish between calendar and game day. In the game time jumps for a week, when the husband was on a business trip. Update 0.055 and 0.06 is on Day 14, this is the 7th game day. There are 30 game days in the game.

thanks

 

[♩♪♫ ŤЦ尺尺ØЛ ♫♪♩]

damn...after reading all these comments---it would seem my shota/lesbian orgies are on a downward spiral:FeelsBadMan: my plan was just hit on my "son" and his friends and other teenage boys but didn't touch adult men but touched a few teenage girls/my "daughter"/and my"sister" on the side....my "corruption" plan seems to be on "fission mailed" route:test2:

 

[Guygee]

Big fail for me would seem to be the MC's inability to be discreet and discriminating in choosing a single person to have an affair with - to get anywhere like that seems to require the "filthy with all" route. There should be no "points" system whatsoever imo, purely progress with each individual as per the MC's choice. And at her chosen speed, too.

 

[Guygee]

Big fail for me would seem to be the MC's inability to be discreet and discriminating in choosing a single person to have an affair with - to get anywhere like that seems to require the "filthy with all" route. There should be no "points" system whatsoever imo, purely progress with each individual as per the MC's choice. And at her chosen speed, too.

 

[Goblin Baily: DILF]

You're aproaching the corruption path the wrong way. I se it as what people do when they go to the sea,they first touch the wet sand on the shore to get used to the environment, then they dip their toes and sucessively start swimming. Only when they get used to swimming they start surfing, kiting, mothorbarding and doing other specialised things