VN Ren'Py A Wife and Mother [v0.215f] [Lust & Passion]

[deluges]

He's every bit of a professional with how he kept our interest for the game untainted so far. Except the update delaying part! He so need a partner or he'll break the fanbase.

...I agree, but he definitely needs more money to do so. Theoretically we'd like this person to treat making the game like a full-time job, but 5k between two people, and I'm sure the split wouldn't be 50/50, that wouldn't cut it, so I think his monetary goals make sense... though I'd never advocate L&P dropping out of college to make sex games... but to each their own!

 

[roro]

maybe it would be better to let L&P explain his attitude by himself rather than speculate instead of him. unless you are his mandated lawyer.

I'm not his lawyer nor his defender. no one is perfect, and those posts he wrote and then deleted were better not written in the first place. But in the first days of the last release he got so much hatred and negative feedback, most if not all of it from non patrons, and I guess it made a bad effect on him...
Anyway, I really love this game, thats why I'm paying for it, and that's the reason I'm writing here. There are many games that made me feel like I wasted my time playing them, but I never felt that it's my duty to throw shit on their dev's in their dedicated threads, mostly because I know that there are some people who really like these games. Everybody has their right to like whatever they like, but here there were people wishing loudly this game to be abandoned or this dev to lose all his patrons. Real haters that wished for l@p failure, before his long controversial post.
and no, I didn't like his answer to the haters...

 

[deluges]

I'm not his lawyer nor his defender. no one is perfect, and those posts he wrote and then deleted were better not written in the first place. But in the first days of the last release he got so much hatred and negative feedback, most if not all of it from non patrons, and I guess it made a bad effect on him...
Anyway, I really love this game, thats why I'm paying for it, and that's the reason I'm writing here. There are many games that made me feel like I wasted my time playing them, but I never felt that it's my duty to throw shit on their dev's in their dedicated threads, mostly because I know that there are some people who really like these games. Everybody has their right to like whatever they like, but here there were people wishing loudly this game to be abandoned or this dev to lose all his patrons. Real haters that wished for l@p failure, before his long controversial post.
and no, I didn't like his answer to the haters...

Having a dev who's active on here is a double-edged sword; they can be really helpful but they can also become frustrated or make changes to a game to appease the vocal minority, which really sucks. It'd be better if they just focused on what they did and answered to their Patreons and just let us fight amongst ourselves here, ha.

 

[XaGnard]

@deluges
Yes, but I have the feeling that most hate comments are from non-supporters. And I think that's unfair. If a sponsor is dissatisfied, he can deal with the developer and then decide what to do next ...
I like AWAM. The story is not new, but completely different in structure than in similar games. It becomes difficult for the developer to tell every decision in the game in a separate branch of the story and then not to lose himself, but to return to the main path. And then also the expectations of the possible players to anticipate or implement ....

I think most of his critics don't hate his work. At least I'd like to see what happens next.

It's just a pity that his story doesn't really go on, because he strangles it with more and more side stories and trivialities. The last update was just one more example of this. Instead of taking the opportunity and continiue the story with the two female masurians (he took a lot of effort to introduce some day before), he came up with even more characters (five more guys this time). There wasn't really any development this time either. Rather the daughter has got her third love interrest which will lead to even more delay in the future.

Tragic, however, was his preview image of the school at night, because almost everybody thought about how the school story would go on. Finally a progress in something and a real reaction of the MC. But no, Now we have the third guy in school who kind of forced himself on her. All in a setting that doesn't seem realistic at all.

Well, if it's one thing the author needs, it's constructive criticism. It is important in a project to seriously reflect on the progress and to make adjustments if necessary. Why not just drop one or two of the side stories? Does she really Need to have two side jobs at once? Does there really have to be so many LI in the story of the MC?

I really hope the author makes the story a little flatter. Gladly with the same depth of detail, but better concentrated on the essential.

 

[deluges]

I think most of his critics don't hate his work. At least I'd like to see what happens next.

It's just a pity that his story doesn't really go on, because he strangles it with more and more side stories and trivialities. The last update was just one more example of this. Instead of taking the opportunity and continiue the story with the two female masurians (he took a lot of effort to introduce some day before), he came up with even more characters (five more guys this time). There wasn't really any development this time either. Rather the daughter has got her third love interrest which will lead to even more delay in the future.

Tragic, however, was his preview image of the school at night, because almost everybody thought about how the school story would go on. Finally a progress in something and a real reaction of the MC. But no, Now we have the third guy in school who kind of forced himself on her. All in a setting that doesn't seem realistic at all.

Well, if it's one thing the author needs, it's constructive criticism. It is important in a project to seriously reflect on the progress and to make adjustments if necessary. Why not just drop one or two of the side stories? Does she really Need to have two side jobs at once? Does there really have to be so many LI in the story of the MC?

I really hope the author makes the story a little flatter. Gladly with the same depth of detail, but better concentrated on the essential.

That's fair and there's always ways to introduce new characters, without having to actually introduce them. A casual mention here and there, but pursue the main four or five (jeez) storylines to a satisfying place and then maybe do some more world-building or whatever, so it doesn't just feel like obstructions for the sake of it.

 

[willzo]

I like the idea of this game with the slow burn but the only criticism is the amount of time between updates its like 4-6 weeks per half a day update... i think he could have waited until a bit deeper in the story to introduce some characters

 

[armion82]

I think most of his critics don't hate his work. At least I'd like to see what happens next.

It's just a pity that his story doesn't really go on, because he strangles it with more and more side stories and trivialities. The last update was just one more example of this. Instead of taking the opportunity and continiue the story with the two female masurians (he took a lot of effort to introduce some day before), he came up with even more characters (five more guys this time). There wasn't really any development this time either. Rather the daughter has got her third love interrest which will lead to even more delay in the future.

Tragic, however, was his preview image of the school at night, because almost everybody thought about how the school story would go on. Finally a progress in something and a real reaction of the MC. But no, Now we have the third guy in school who kind of forced himself on her. All in a setting that doesn't seem realistic at all.

Well, if it's one thing the author needs, it's constructive criticism. It is important in a project to seriously reflect on the progress and to make adjustments if necessary. Why not just drop one or two of the side stories? Does she really Need to have two side jobs at once? Does there really have to be so many LI in the story of the MC?

I really hope the author makes the story a little flatter. Gladly with the same depth of detail, but better concentrated on the essential.

That's fair and there's always ways to introduce new characters, without having to actually introduce them. A casual mention here and there, but pursue the main four or five (jeez) storylines to a satisfying place and then maybe do some more world-building or whatever, so it doesn't just feel like obstructions for the sake of it.

Don't forget that next update we will get even more new characters because of the second side job.More distractions,damn.
I still can't get it how every thing alive is into Sophia.Like realy only Liam is blind.
Hell in JOHN the only ones that have hots for Jessica from the first time we saw them,are the neighbors-Heather and Christian.And her BF Conner of course
For all others in the game we have to actualy seduce them

 

[deluges]

Don't forget that next update we will get even more new characters because of the second side job.More distractions,damn.
I still can't get it how every thing alive is into Sophia.Like realy only Liam is blind.
Hell in JOHN the only ones that have hots for Jessica from the first time we saw them,are the neighbors-Heather and Christian.And her BF Conner of course
For all others in the game we have to actualy seduce them

That's the problem with a lot of (female protagonist) corruption games, they're unbalanced. While I enjoy the creeps, there's too many creeps (Bush Tetras, great song)! There should be some genuinely decent men and women in these games who aren't just looking to corrupt or take advantage of your character.

 

[DirkP]

To say that all criticisms of this game, or its developer, amount to hating or trolling is not accurate. It's true that this game, ever since the beginning, has faced an uphill battle - it's a female protagonist game with a very complex story and branching paths that will take years to reach any tangible sexual encounter. That being said, there were many of us on this thread who were willing to give the developer the benefit of the doubt (albeit passively), and be patient. Hell, I even praised the update with Ellie and Julia not too long ago, finding it to be quite emotionally rewarding, deep, and completely unexpected.
Things took a turn for the worse when the developer started to not only attack the F95 community (which is where most, if not all of his supporters and Patreons came from), but he also attacked other game developers out here who have demonstrated a lot of talent, and a willingness to take constructive criticisms from the forum. It's fine that he wants to stick to his vision - I'd say that the majority of us are honestly intrigued to see how it all develops, but throwing a temper tantrum and attacking the very people that made his game popular (with over 500 pages of comments) was not a good move.
The funny thing is that, for all the attacks and hate he often receives, his Patreon earnings only seem to be going up. It's almost as if people looked at all the drama that ensued - including the developer's own responses, and decided "yeah, he seems like a reasonable guy, I'll support him". I guess there's no such thing as bad publicity, after all. At the end of the day, this game would be nothing without its Patreons, so if they have an issue with the direction of the development process, they're the only ones capable of affecting change. The only thing we can do here at F95 is voice our concerns or praises.
Look, I want this game to succeed as much as the next guy, but bad and abhorrent behavior like he displayed a month back should not be rewarded. If people want to support him, that's their prerogative and it does not affect me in the slightest - I just wish he'd realize that he made a mistake, and change his attitude. He doesn't need to come back to this thread, he doesn't need to apologize to those game developers he insulted, he just needs to be better from now on. Not all criticism is a personal attack, and sometimes, we at F95 might just happen to be right about some issues affecting the game.

@karnage3d,
I see it just like you, constructive criticism and praise are things that you have to deal with when you voluntarily go public. But not everyone can (there are important people who are even worse - "fake news").
If L & P wants to continue to succeed, he has to learn to handle it, otherwise he will fail not only in this project.
I'm also afraid that he can not keep the story together. He is hardworking (over 4000 renders so far), creative and very detail-loving (too much?). From my point of view, he should go back to the main story and park the to many supporting actors (in the moment) until the basic developments are decided. Then he also has enough story material for the continuation as spin off with a new main character.

 

[deluges]

To say that all criticisms of this game, or its developer, amount to hating or trolling is not accurate. It's true that this game, ever since the beginning, has faced an uphill battle - it's a female protagonist game with a very complex story and branching paths that will take years to reach any tangible sexual encounter. That being said, there were many of us on this thread who were willing to give the developer the benefit of the doubt (albeit passively), and be patient. Hell, I even praised the update with Ellie and Julia not too long ago, finding it to be quite emotionally rewarding, deep, and completely unexpected.
Things took a turn for the worse when the developer started to not only attack the F95 community (which is where most, if not all of his supporters and Patreons came from), but he also attacked other game developers out here who have demonstrated a lot of talent, and a willingness to take constructive criticisms from the forum. It's fine that he wants to stick to his vision - I'd say that the majority of us are honestly intrigued to see how it all develops, but throwing a temper tantrum and attacking the very people that made his game popular (with over 500 pages of comments) was not a good move.
The funny thing is that, for all the attacks and hate he often receives, his Patreon earnings only seem to be going up. It's almost as if people looked at all the drama that ensued - including the developer's own responses, and decided "yeah, he seems like a reasonable guy, I'll support him". I guess there's no such thing as bad publicity, after all. At the end of the day, this game would be nothing without its Patreons, so if they have an issue with the direction of the development process, they're the only ones capable of affecting change. The only thing we can do here at F95 is voice our concerns or praises.
Look, I want this game to succeed as much as the next guy, but bad and abhorrent behavior like he displayed a month back should not be rewarded. If people want to support him, that's their prerogative and it does not affect me in the slightest - I just wish he'd realize that he made a mistake, and change his attitude. He doesn't need to come back to this thread, he doesn't need to apologize to those game developers he insulted, he just needs to be better from now on. Not all criticism is a personal attack, and sometimes, we at F95 might just happen to be right about some issues affecting the game.

I agree with you, and I love the game, but even from his Patreon page he's elicited an air of arrogance... god that sounded awful aloud, ugh, so did that... anyway, he's not necessarily wrong, though. This game is one of the few that I actually didn't mind taking my time and reading all of the text because I enjoyed how well written the story was. The list of devs who can actually write a great story or have great chemistry between characters is short as fuck. Based on the countless games that I've played here, it's fairly obvious that it isn't easy to make a good sex game and I think most of us can agree that terrible writing is one of the easiest ways to ruin a game. If we just wanted sex, we'd watch porn, but these games are about the situations, the characters, the story and the sex. Being able to shape a story to suit our desires is awesome, but man, that shit takes time.

Anyway, you're not wrong that L & P went too far, there's no need to denigrate a community that's only helped to boost his game (and profits). Given that he deleted the offending posts, we can hope that he gained some humility or at the very least decided to avoid this place and focus on the game. One can hope.

 

[deluges]

@karnage3d,
I see it just like you, constructive criticism and praise are things that you have to deal with when you voluntarily go public. But not everyone can (there are important people who are even worse - "fake news").
If L & P wants to continue to succeed, he has to learn to handle it, otherwise he will fail not only in this project.
I'm also afraid that he can not keep the story together. He is hardworking (over 4000 renders so far), creative and very detail-loving (too much?). From my point of view, he should go back to the main story and park the to many supporting actors (in the moment) until the basic developments are decided. Then he also has enough story material for the continuation as spin off with a new main character.

To be fair, negative criticism, whining and complaining are also things they have to deal with, but it would be great if the only criticism they encountered was helpful .

EDIT: "very detail-loving (too much?) " This, so much this. The scene where you first enter your new home and everyone's standing in the doorway, it is almost jaw-droppingly astonishing. The lighting was magnificent. This is what, as Patreons, we're really paying for, more so than sex (unfortunately). To us it's a minor detail but to the dev it's (a huge part of) what's setting him apart from his peers.

 

[roro]

To say that all criticisms of this game, or its developer, amount to hating or trolling is not accurate. It's true that this game, ever since the beginning, has faced an uphill battle - it's a female protagonist game with a very complex story and branching paths that will take years to reach any tangible sexual encounter. That being said, there were many of us on this thread who were willing to give the developer the benefit of the doubt (albeit passively), and be patient. Hell, I even praised the update with Ellie and Julia not too long ago, finding it to be quite emotionally rewarding, deep, and completely unexpected.
Things took a turn for the worse when the developer started to not only attack the F95 community (which is where most, if not all of his supporters and Patreons came from), but he also attacked other game developers out here who have demonstrated a lot of talent, and a willingness to take constructive criticisms from the forum. It's fine that he wants to stick to his vision - I'd say that the majority of us are honestly intrigued to see how it all develops, but throwing a temper tantrum and attacking the very people that made his game popular (with over 500 pages of comments) was not a good move.
The funny thing is that, for all the attacks and hate he often receives, his Patreon earnings only seem to be going up. It's almost as if people looked at all the drama that ensued - including the developer's own responses, and decided "yeah, he seems like a reasonable guy, I'll support him". I guess there's no such thing as bad publicity, after all. At the end of the day, this game would be nothing without its Patreons, so if they have an issue with the direction of the development process, they're the only ones capable of affecting change. The only thing we can do here at F95 is voice our concerns or praises.
Look, I want this game to succeed as much as the next guy, but bad and abhorrent behavior like he displayed a month back should not be rewarded. If people want to support him, that's their prerogative and it does not affect me in the slightest - I just wish he'd realize that he made a mistake, and change his attitude. He doesn't need to come back to this thread, he doesn't need to apologize to those game developers he insulted, he just needs to be better from now on. Not all criticism is a personal attack, and sometimes, we at F95 might just happen to be right about some issues affecting the game.

I don't recall me or anyone else in here that said that all it's critics (exuse my english) came from hate...
other than that, I believe that the deletion of those posts shows he understand he's miserable mistake.

 

[armion82]

@karnage3d,
I see it just like you, constructive criticism and praise are things that you have to deal with when you voluntarily go public. But not everyone can (there are important people who are even worse - "fake news").
If L & P wants to continue to succeed, he has to learn to handle it, otherwise he will fail not only in this project.
I'm also afraid that he can not keep the story together. He is hardworking (over 4000 renders so far), creative and very detail-loving (too much?). From my point of view, he should go back to the main story and park the to many supporting actors (in the moment) until the basic developments are decided. Then he also has enough story material for the continuation as spin off with a new main character.

And we will get even more supporting actors like you said in next update.Like seriously.
Do we need a second side job?Why adding more furnitures in the game when we have already 20+ LI for Sophia?
Do he realy think to do 10 steps until the sex with everyone?I'm not sure we are even on step 2 or 3 with anyone so far.

 

[deluges]

If you don't see how criticism of this game, or the developer, has been framed as hating or trolling by a very dedicated minority of vocal supporters, then you're clearly not paying attention. Just go back a couple of pages, and read the comments along the way. And come on, guys, let's be honest, the next updates will be nothing more than additional set-up.
We were told that the story would kick into high gear four updates ago, and that the events that followed would be very important. That was not accurate, and instead we got more character introductions, which further delay any tangible sexual content. Now we're told again that the next updates are very important. Do you not see the pattern?
If you like the game, that's fine. If you support it financially, props to you - the game wouldn't exist without Patreons. But L&P is deliberately holding back on any type of sexual content to a ridiculous degree, and keeps introducing even more characters and story lines in a game that's already way too complex for its own good. And that is a fair point.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't play A Wife and Mother to be a wife and.. a... mother.. aww, shit.

 

[armion82]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't play A Wife and Mother to be a wife and.. a... mother.. aww, shit.

There is almost no wife in the game so far.Even on good wife route.

 

[deluges]

There is almost no wife in the game so far.Even on good wife route.

True, but one of the two sexual acts in the game is with her husband.

 

[armion82]

True, but one of the two sexual acts in the game is with her husband.

I doubt anyone was expecting only 1 sexual act-BJ-in the game and with husband,for 15 months.

 

[momojean]

We are not talking here about a nobel prise writer or a pulitzer prize winner. L&P is just a porn game dev known by a few hundreds people from a pervert community. people here are not supposed to defend the fact that he stick to his vision while even his supporters are complaining about the very disappointing slow pace. His already written story (if that's true) is not a bibble. he is able to make changes any time to speed up the game during the development since what is ready is only the writing and not the renders. but for his personal interest he refuses to do so and it's just a money matter and not principles or artistic vision. By introducing new characters, new side stories and new branches (Janitor, Sauna event, new side job...etc) after more than 15 months of development he clearly wants to stretch the game as long as possible. I think Sam, Dylan, Ellie, Liam, Patricia and her husband, the maid, the thugs, old people in the first side job, the teacher, julia, soccer mom girls...etc etc are more than enough to build a very rich game with a lot of events in it in two years development. but I thing that L&P in the beginnig decided first how long the game must last...and than he'll think about the content he needs to fill it as he goes through development. So, I do not believe that the story was already written at the very beginning ... but the duration of the project was decided. This explains the fact that the game is developing more and more horizontally than vertically.
Finally it's a matter of money. L&P decided to earn a maximum monthly income (+10K $) for at least 70 months (do the calculation) even if he has to fill the game with garbage as long as there is people who do not mind paying for it.

 

[temporaryuser]

Just feel sorry for patrons

 

[roro]

dont feel sory for us, we are supporting this project willingly because we like it just as it is.
why can't you understand that everybody has his own taste... some like blonde girls, some like them brunettes, some like them busty, some petite, younger, older, slim, fat... I have my own taste and it I guess its different than yours. not better but different. same with this VN.