HTML Accidental Woman [v1.32.1 Elite] [ThaumX]

[Prokopije]

The thing about programming is that you need always learn something and you cannot predict all errors that lies ahead and when it happens it can be a nightmare to fix a bug - that's the worst part. But if you are so smart, then go ahead... try to program something. Even professional grade games are made within 2 or 3 years and they have a lot more funds, more programmers and more people that make graphics, sound, UI, design, marketing and other stuff.

You can't compare professional game with amateur game from patreon. It's like making AbuDhabi Tower comparing to simple house, as someone above named.
I'm not saying that programing is easy or piece of cake, but for sure it will not take years for project like this. This looks to me like time spent on working on this game is 1-2 hour(s) every second day, with that tempo of developement.
But, anyway it's clearly that we don't agree about that and we will not, no matter what any of us say :closedtongue:,so it is for best to agree to disagree and to move on.

 

[TheMaskettaMan]

So, I downloaded this but all the images are fucked and I have to zoom out. Should I be opening the html file with Microsoft Edge or what? I see a few others got this problem but I can't seem to find any "resource files" to plug into my own.

 

[Prokopije]

I've played it in Opera and had to zoom out from 100 to 60 to fit all into screen properly.

 

[TheMaskettaMan]

I've played it in Opera and had to zoom out from 100 to 60 to fit all into screen properly.

So, based on your reply, I'm guess the game is just fucked for Google Chrome or something, because you didn't make any mention of the images not loading. Should I download Firefox or something, then?
Also, seems like this guy is kinda falling apart at the seams, his site has several links that just don't work anymore.

 

[TheMaskettaMan]

Well, I found a solution to my problem by visiting his Patreon and opening up the 13.1 post.

You must be registered to see the links

Edit: I did what the instructions said and it worked perfectly.

 

[Prokopije]

So, based on your reply, I'm guess the game is just fucked for Google Chrome or something, because you didn't make any mention of the images not loading. Should I download Firefox or something, then?
Also, seems like this guy is kinda falling apart at the seems, his site has several links that just don't work anymore.

Well, I don't know for other browsers, cause I didn't tried. Only problem I had was with that zoom (couldn't see all options during character creation), so I had to zoom out. As for pictures, I had some during that character creation, and some maps later, and places. If there is suposed to be more pictures, than I missed them, too. I don't know how much pictures should be in game and where they are, but I had some pictures.

 

[IvoryOwl]

Well, just because you don't see the progress doesn't mean there is no progress.
Framework _is_ stuff that get's done.
Go take a look in the source code for the different versions.
Sorry, but the reason why he takes so long is because he is building a solid foundation for his house. If you don't like his house, or prefer smaller houses, no problem. Walk away and take your pick. There are hundreds of other houses to choose.
But the only thing you are demonstrating is, that you don't understand what's happening.
He shows no signs of abandoning this project, and was very upfront with his vision. I see absolutly no reason to bash the author.

I do partly understand your anxiety. There are plenty and plenty of people who bite a big chunk and then can't chew it, but to my knowledge, the author hasn't shown signs for that yet. On the contrary, he has shown multiple times, that he has a vision and a plan.

Framework (and other similar aspects of development) is really just a bunch of technical, background stuff that most people don't really care about. I'm not saying it isn't important, but in the greater scheme of things, what we really want as players is something functional, something we can play with and have fun. However, this game has been stuck as a barely functional prototype for a year now.

He needs to pick up the pace - with 4k a month maybe it's time to consider hiring help. Building an engine from the ground up is a bold move, but the bone I have to pick here is that he is basically asking people to have faith in him while giving us little in return for months or even years to come. It's a tall order.

I'm not saying he is going to poof on us... but it could happen. It has happened before with other well-off, seemingly stable projects. Are we not allowed some skepticism? I mean, the real market is not that different - investors will always sniff around where their money goes, expecting progress and results. You don't deliver up to their standards, expect a rough wake-up call.

If this foundation is causing him some issues then maybe he should have held off Patreon until he had more experience and something solid to work with. At this rate it is going to take forever until AW can be called a game. A wise developer would have used a pre-built engine to get us something while building this fancy idea of his on the side, then shift to the new engine once it felt stable.

In the end it's your money so feel free to invest it where you want, just be careful you don't blind yourself with shinny promises to the point you no longer realise you're being taken advatage of. That kind of naive faith is what promotes toxic business practices that screws us all.

 

[ustar]

You can't compare professional game with amateur game from patreon. It's like making AbuDhabi Tower comparing to simple house, as someone above named.
I'm not saying that programing is easy or piece of cake, but for sure it will not take years for project like this. This looks to me like time spent on working on this game is 1-2 hour(s) every second day, with that tempo of developement.
But, anyway it's clearly that we don't agree about that and we will not, no matter what any of us say :closedtongue:,so it is for best to agree to disagree and to move on.

OK, then look at this:

You must be registered to see the links

- it's just one blog info about release, but there is information what he is doing.
About comparison AbuDhabi Tower to a house... this is good but I didn't. It's you who mentioned about professional grade, so I mentioned how professional grade look to me, but I like also games made by independent developers, because they can make some fresh ideas, which a big company would reject.
About framework or foundation for a web browser game... I think that thing just does not exist. There is just HTML and JavaScript which need to be written very good to make a decent game.
And yeah... I have to zoom the game to about 60% in Chrome too.

 

[RustyXXL]

Framework (and other similar aspects of development) is really just a bunch of technical, background stuff that most people don't really care about. [...]

(shortened to keep the Post smaller)

That's all fine and dandy, but your Argument is fundamentally flawed.
One of the biggest reasons why People abandon their projects is when they realize - hey this is much much more work than I thought, and I started to build my game without having the neccessary framework in place. And now it would mean much more work to implement the systems I need then it would take to start over from scratch.
And I'm not talking about people with malicious intend here. Because he put to much work into this project, that having malicious intend seems ridiculous to me.
Yet here you are demanding that he should do exactly the same mistake 99% of other authors of more complex projects make.
And ThaumX was very clear about it from the very beginning. He always said, hey to realize my project in a realistic manner I need to build framework first, because adding content before the framework is there would mean I would have to completly rewrite the content at a later date anyway.

And what assurances do you expect to get on a Forum that shares a lot of the work of Authors without their consent, and it would seem the Author doesn't even post? Maybe that request is in the wrong place here?

When I bought Minecraft there was no "end", there were no pistons, Zombies dropped feathers and nothing else etc. It wasn't a big success yet and was much cheaper than at release. And yet, almost a decade later I still play that game.
Other alpha software I bought in didn't make it to release, or later started to develop in a direction I completly disliked. That's the risk not only of adult games, but alpha/beta software.

If you don't like that risk, maybe you should stick to released software. It sounds like that's the better place for you, based on how little I know about you (and I mean it in a positive advisory manner, not in a derogative way)

Again, ThaumX demonstrated that he has a clear plan and that he is mostly following it, without being an overly stickler to his plan when he sees that something is missing or something doesn't work. And that's exactly what alpha software is about, and he is treating his roject much more professional than a lot of other people from what I've seen, and maybe that is why he is getting 4k a month?

 

[mbRjpZLD]

OK, then look at this:

You must be registered to see the links

- it's just one blog info about release, but there is information what he is doing.
About comparison AbuDhabi Tower to a house... this is good but I didn't. It's you who mentioned about professional grade, so I mentioned how professional grade look to me, but I like also games made by independent developers, because they can make some fresh ideas, which a big company would reject.
About framework or foundation for a web browser game... I think that thing just does not exist. There is just HTML and JavaScript which need to be written very good to make a decent game.
And yeah... I have to zoom the game to about 60% in Chrome too.

yeah that's a good example.. if after over a year in you're still changing the very basic data objects or even worse programming language, you've either planned very badly or you're just fucking around looking for things to do.

 

[ustar]

yeah that's a good example.. if after over a year in you're still changing the very basic data objects or even worse programming language, you've either planned very badly or you're just fucking around looking for things to do.

You see... some things just cannot be planned or goes according to plan. I presented this example, because there is a graph of how much hours and work he is spending on this project.
If everything would go according to plan, then there would not be deadly crashes in NASA, but there work people like you, who needs to hurry and crash.
Besides so far he seems stick to his schedule plan.

 

[RustyXXL]

yeah that's a good example.. if after over a year in you're still changing the very basic data objects or even worse programming language, you've either planned very badly or you're just fucking around looking for things to do.

Actually no. This is part of the alpha development cycle, and is only secondary related to the time you have been in development.
It is true that you shouldn't prolong in alpha longer than neccessary, but this is exactly the kind of things you should solve during alpha.
It's just that some developers have muddied the waters, and released games under the alpha tag, that should already be in beta from the kinds of work they are doing.

Classically alpha is sorting out "boring" low level stuff like this, so you don't have to deal with that later, and it is quite common to find things that won't work during the alpha, no matter how good your plan is.

 

[IvoryOwl]

@RustyXXL
@ustar

You two are really passionate about defending this game aren't you?

Well the truth of the matter is that not everyone is pleased with how things are progressing; some are either skeptical about the whole deal or plain unhappy with the pace the developer is taking to get his "foundation" right. Argue what you will but unless something changes, nothing you say will change the facts... or people's minds. Telling us, in other terms, to simple "move on" and "find other games" basically says you're ok with the way things are now even if it bears not tangible fruit in the foreseeable future. That's fine. It's your prerogative.

Just don't expect other people to be as patient as you or trust a dev they don't really know. All we have is his word, his "plan", but words alone mean nothing without proof. We shall see in the end - maybe I should come back in 5 years to see if there's any progress - assuming I haven't simply forgotten about this game altogether. I sincerely hope, for your sake at least, he manages to deliver what he promised within his own stipulations - there is enough deception and disappointment in this market as is so you can't really blame people for being a bit "itchy" on the subject.

Besides, as you said yourself, the dev doesn't frequent this forum so it's not like he's going to pat us in the back for defending him or slapping us in the face for doing otherwise. We're just venting, that's all.

 

[RustyXXL]

@RustyXXL
@ustar

You two are really passionate about defending this game aren't you?

Well the truth of the matter is that not everyone is pleased with how thing are progressing; some are either skeptics about the whole deal or plain unhappy with the pace the developer is taking to get his "foundation" right. Argue what you will but unless something changes, nothing you say will placate those who are unhappy. Telling us, in other terms, to simple "move on" and "find other games" basically says you're ok with this business model even if it bears not tangible fruit in the forseeable future.

That's fine. It's your perogative. Just don't expect other people to align with your thoughs or have the same faith as you in a developer they don't really know. All we have is his word, his "plan", but words alone mean nothing without proof. We shall see in the end. I sincerely hope, for your sake at least, he manages to deliver what he promises - there is enough deception and disapointment in this market as is so you can't really blame people for being a bit "itchy" on the subject.

Besides, as you said yourself, whether we say good or bad in here it won't really matter - we're just venting, that's all. The dev doesn't frequent this forum so it's not like he's going to pat us in the back for defending him or slapping us in the face for doing otherwise.

Nah, I'm not really that passionate about defending him. I'm just sharing my point of view.
All I'm offering you is an alternative view point, about the way he is doing his stuff, and I have no personal stake in this race whatsoever, as I currently can't use paypal or credit cards, and as such couldn't even invest in any Patreon projects, even if I wanted.

And yes, I can understand your scepticism about this project. And it is indeed hard to judge, if something a game dev does is right or wrong. I've been wrong about judging a project I'm interested in plenty of times. I'm just saying, that he does a lot of things different than a lot other solo indie devs in the adult gaming sector, and seems to handle things more like in professional development, which in most cases happens behind closed doors, and most of the time is paid for by investors rather than patreons.
And sorry, if you don't trust this guy, that's fine. I don't really care. yeah, it sucks to not have that game you might be interested in, but if you don't trust him, move on. That's the only thing you can do.
Vote with your money, but let other people do the same. Sometimes you're right, sometimes you are wrong.
So I really don't see what's wrong with telling you to move on.

 

[FappaHolic]

Shit laggy game on browser. Don't recommend.

 

[ZunMadun]

This game is like a kickstarter project.
1) Author promises a lot of cool stuff in the future.
2) People give money towards the project hoping that the author delivers.
3) In the end you might get what you paid for or you might get nothing or even might get something completely different from what you were hoping for.

 

[RustyXXL]

This game is like a kickstarter project.
1) Author promises a lot of cool stuff in the future.
2) People give money towards the project hoping that the author delivers.
3) In the end you might get what you paid for or you might get nothing or even might get something completely different from what you were hoping for.

Yeah, people said similar things about pretty much every early access game in the history of early access games...
It's almost like games might change during their development. And stuff can happen during that time....
Again, if you don't like that risk, turn away and ignore early access games. They aren't made for people like you.

 

[ZunMadun]

Yeah, people said similar things about pretty much every early access game in the history of early access games...
It's almost like games might change during their development. And stuff can happen during that time....
Again, if you don't like that risk, turn away and ignore early access games. They aren't made for people like you.

I don't know why you assume I hate all early access games because I don't like this one. I only have issues with this particular game. I just feel like this whole game is some sort of weird scam.

Does this game really need all that framework?
Is 4k from patreon not enough and he needs to also sell t-shirts and other merc?
Does the NPC AI really need to be that complex?
Why is it so hard to add anything playable to the game but easy to add new stores, locations and other placeholders?
Why updates add different ways to customize your character but give nothing to actually use your character for?

Seriously I wouldn't even be surprised when at some point he comes out and says that this is not going to work out and needs to switch to another engine and development time will increase by few years to convert all this to the new engine.

 

[RustyXXL]

I don't know why you assume I hate all early access games because I don't like this one. I only have issues with this particular game. I just feel like this whole game is some sort of weird scam.

Because I heard the same line of questioning for pretty much every other early access game, from people who didn't like the decisions the dev took. You clearly don't like the decisions the dev took, so he's probably scamming.

Does this game really need all that framework?

If you just want a porn delivery system, probably not. If you want a game with some depth, then yes.

Is 4k from patreon not enough and he needs to also sell t-shirts and other merc?

Could it be possible that he got asked for merchandise? I mean I don't know, if he decided that for himself, or if fans asked for merchandise, I didn't follow that closely, but I know for a fact that fans asking for merchandise is something that happens, so assuming that this can only be due to his greed for more is kinda ignorant.

Does the NPC AI really need to be that complex?

Again. If you are happy with npcs just popping up at random somewhere, no, you don't need an AI. If you want anything more complex than that, yes, you need an AI. You want NPCs to wear cloth that make sense? Congrats, your AI just got more complex. You want your NPCs to grow their attributes when they visit the fitness center? congrats, your ai just got more complex.

Why is it so hard to add anything playable to the game but easy to add new stores, locations and other placeholders?

Because they are placeholders, and not fully developed game system. Seriously, you answered your own question there.

Why updates add different ways to customize your character but give nothing to actually use your character for?

Because it is much easier if you have the right Data Structures

array Haircolors[].add("NewColor")

But adding actual Content requires a lot more work and carries much more risk you'll have to rewrite it, when you develop your Framework further.

Seriously I wouldn't even be surprised when at some point he comes out and says that this is not going to work out and needs to switch to another engine and development time will increase by few years to convert all this to the new engine.

Sorry, I don't see any base for that assumption, other than you demonstrated clearly that you don't have that much of an Idea what he is doing.

 

[ZunMadun]

Again. If you are happy with npcs just popping up at random somewhere, no, you don't need an AI. If you want anything more complex than that, yes, you need an AI. You want NPCs to wear cloth that make sense? Congrats, your AI just got more complex. You want your NPCs to grow their attributes when they visit the fitness center? congrats, your ai just got more complex.

This is still a text-based game correct? Did I miss something and writing scenes with NPCs wearing clothes or doing any sort of action now requires AI or are you saying that the AI will create those scenes? If this was a 3D game or something then I would see why it requires more complex AI but this is just text.

Because they are placeholders, and not fully developed game system. Seriously, you answered your own question there.

Because it is much easier if you have the right Data Structures

array Haircolors[].add("NewColor")

But adding actual Content requires a lot more work and carries much more risk you'll have to rewrite it, when you develop your Framework further.

Unless he doesn't know what he is doing he should be able to write proper scenes that don't require rewriting or maybe little rewriting. He has some sort of plan so he should know which parts might change in the future and add little comment there so he can just go there and do the little change or write something with future in mind.
Like you don't need fully functioning system for flying a plane in place before you write scenes that involve you walking.
There will be rewrites no matter how good the framework is.

Sorry, I don't see any base for that assumption, other than you demonstrated clearly that you don't have that much of an Idea what he is doing.

Didn't he convert from javascript to typescript because typescript is better. I think he even said in a blog post that it indeed it is better to use or something.