VN Ren'Py Completed Acting Lessons [v1.0.2] [DrPinkCake]

[big_daddy_j64]

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Damn. Looks like to end up with Rena you gotta be a complete fucking twat to everyone else. I know this is a game, but nty. Think I'll stick to my fantasies where Melissa, Megan, and MC are all living happily in LA in the world's best relationship.

 

[PHANTOM44]

Do you know the way ?

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[raulz0r]

I wanna get with Rena also, but I don't wanna be a dick

 

[Vordertur]

There is only so much of a pile on the audience can take before it becomes overwhelming. Melissa's backstory is almost laughable at this point with how crazy it has gotten. And then in this episode we find out that

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Way too much.

You could get enough drama for a climax with ONE of these events, but three, in one episode? No way!

Sorry for going back and quoting from a week-old post, but I'm catching up on like thirty pages of this thread.

But geez, no kidding. Honestly, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. It seems like everyone else thinks this is a totally appropriate amount of drama. But I guess everyone else lives in a soap opera or something. This has turned into an episode of Young and the Restless or something. Yeesh.

I mean, for the people arguing that "Hey, this one thing could happen. That other thing could happen. That other other thing could happen."

SURE. But what are the chances that they all happen one after the other after the other?

That's... kind of the point. That's what makes soap operas so ridiculous. Can we all believe that Brad cheated on Jessica with Tiffany? Sure. Can we believe that Jessica got really pissed about it? Yes. Can we believe that Jessica decided to try and murder Tiffany for revenge? Why not? How about Jessica cutting Tiffany's brake lines? How about Tiff surviving the resulting car crash but getting (GASP!) AMNESIA?! I mean, each of these things, on its own? Yeah, all right. Put them all together, bam, I just wrote an episode of As the World Turns.

And that's the thing. Obviously some people LIKE soap operas. Those who do? More power to ya. If Acting Lessons was always intended to be a soap opera, and if people like it that way, enjoy. But there are folks who feel like we got bait and switched here. And again, this isn't a "This sucks, I quit," post. It's a "Well, this is going a different direction than I expected, and I'm not entirely sure I like it," post.

But, and this is key, the choices have to seem like they are viable. And that's where the ending here failed, (and honestly there was a similar problem with Ana) the choice at the end just doesn't feel natural. The scenario itself came out of nowhere, it was tied to the weaker aspects of the narrative, and it leaves the players with a choice and dialog that is unnatural and unnerving. You leave the player with a choice that is difficult due to the characters involved but it's cheapened because of the contrivance needed to get there.

It's a "Rocks fall, everyone dies" moment.

No, no one is confirmed dead yet, but still. The whole reason "rocks fall, everyone dies" is pretty much universally loathed isn't so much that "everyone dies" but because it basically flies in the face of the entire development of the story and characters previous to the falling of the rocks.

Spend all that time and effort to set up the plot? Spend all that time and effort to get the audience familiar with the characters? Now throw it all away for a surprise twist that wasn't, in any way, telegraphed to the audience and that they couldn't possibly have anticipated, thus taking all that work you just put in and all that time and effort the readers/watchers invested thus far and making it all for naught.

This isn't saying you can't have bad things happen to characters. This isn't saying you can't kill off characters. But the "meat grinder" approach does nothing but render all your work and the audience's work previous to the "bloodbath" meaningless. And that's why it's so unsatisfactory to a lot of people. Excepting, I suppose, those who enjoy the - as I mentioned in a previous post - the visceral thrills of, say, characters being killed off, and the melodrama that tends to accompany it.

 

[Burt Reynolds Mustache]

Sorry for going back and quoting from a week-old post, but I'm catching up on like thirty pages of this thread.

But geez, no kidding. Honestly, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. It seems like everyone else thinks this is a totally appropriate amount of drama. But I guess everyone else lives in a soap opera or something. This has turned into an episode of Young and the Restless or something. Yeesh.

I mean, for the people arguing that "Hey, this one thing could happen. That other thing could happen. That other other thing could happen."

SURE. But what are the chances that they all happen one after the other after the other?

That's... kind of the point. That's what makes soap operas so ridiculous. Can we all believe that Brad cheated on Jessica with Tiffany? Sure. Can we believe that Jessica got really pissed about it? Yes. Can we believe that Jessica decided to try and murder Tiffany for revenge? Why not? How about Jessica cutting Tiffany's brake lines? How about Tiff surviving the resulting car crash but getting (GASP!) AMNESIA?! I mean, each of these things, on its own? Yeah, all right. Put them all together, bam, I just wrote an episode of As the World Turns.

And that's the thing. Obviously some people LIKE soap operas. Those who do? More power to ya. If Acting Lessons was always intended to be a soap opera, and if people like it that way, enjoy. But there are folks who feel like we got bait and switched here. And again, this isn't a "This sucks, I quit," post. It's a "Well, this is going a different direction than I expected, and I'm not entirely sure I like it," post.



It's a "Rocks fall, everyone dies" moment.

No, no one is confirmed dead yet, but still. The whole reason "rocks fall, everyone dies" is pretty much universally loathed isn't so much that "everyone dies" but because it basically flies in the face of the entire development of the story and characters previous to the falling of the rocks.

Spend all that time and effort to set up the plot? Spend all that time and effort to get the audience familiar with the characters? Now throw it all away for a surprise twist that wasn't, in any way, telegraphed to the audience and that they couldn't possibly have anticipated, thus taking all that work you just put in and all that time and effort the readers/watchers invested thus far and making it all for naught.

This isn't saying you can't have bad things happen to characters. This isn't saying you can't kill off characters. But the "meat grinder" approach does nothing but render all your work and the audience's work previous to the "bloodbath" meaningless. And that's why it's so unsatisfactory to a lot of people. Excepting, I suppose, those who enjoy the - as I mentioned in a previous post - the visceral thrills of, say, characters being killed off, and the melodrama that tends to accompany it.

Honestly, it's not quite "Rocks Fall Everybody Dies" but I get what you're saying... and it's close enough to work. For me it's just dropping too many drama bombs in quick succession. Which in many ways is the same thing. Each one you drop can cheapen the next one.

I know I continue to gush about how well handled Liam was... but he was. When the whole cancer scenario hits... the bomb is right on target... shakes everything up... and adds stakes. But it's then followed up by THREE other bombs in short succession Ana, Peter, and

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. It's just way too much way too fast. And yeah it turns a fun title with some surprising and moving depths straight into the realm of soap opera. None of this makes the stuff that works in the game suddenly bad, exactly... but it does harm the story as a whole at least as of right now.

It also combines with the two main male antagonists being the epitome of the Jerkass trope too which further harms the credibility of the story..

 

[PHANTOM44]

I think you make some valid points concerning the story arc ( there being too much drama ) not sure if I agree fully with you that it wasn’t set up though. I think soap operas or regular dramas differ slightly in that they don’t provide the viewers with a choice as to how the plot or story will unfold.
I think with this game the developer has introduced at least three ‘bad guy’ characters ( won’t give spoilers in this post) each may or may not affect the story depending on the various choices players make - unfortunately their individual plot paths have to be interwoven into the overall story arc - this would in my opinion account for there seeming to be too much drama or too many things happening to the various characters over a short period of time.
As has been mentioned in this thread the whole story has already been completed ( I believe that there are two more episodes to come ) so the writer has probably ( conjecture on my part - i’m not a writer) been forced to cut scenes in the game that would normally space out the action or dramatic events - this would probably involve mundane things like shopping,eating and dates etc.
I think part of the problem might be how you ( in general not personally) play the game too - some people have played from the beginning getting an episode and then waiting a while ( not sure of the time frame ) before playing the next episode ( they probably will have played through previous episodes a couple of times again before the next one drops too ) to their minds the dramatic events have been spaced out..possibly over a couple of months ( there might be say one dramatic scene, one or two adult scenes and some mundane character building scenes per episode) - if all episodes are played one after the other - the perception of the game might be different.. I played through the game this last way and to my mind too a lot seems to have happened - but nevertheless I think it’s an excellent game.
I think by replaying the game over a couple of times you spot little things in the dialogue and in the background that add to the overall story - little clues as to what might or might not happen in the future and also the two remaining episodes - similarly you do this to some extent in cinema now but I don’t think it is done on regular tv or soap operas yet.
I think it’s great to hear different opinions about what is an excellent game - i don’t know when the next episode is going to be released - but personally i’m looking forward to see how the story unfolds...

 

[Enyos]

I think you make some valid points concerning the story arc ( there being too much drama ) not sure if I agree fully with you that it wasn’t set up though. I think soap operas or regular dramas differ slightly in that they don’t provide the viewers with a choice as to how the plot or story will unfold.
I think with this game the developer has introduced at least three ‘bad guy’ characters ( won’t give spoilers in this post) each may or may not affect the story depending on the various choices players make - unfortunately their individual plot paths have to be interwoven into the overall story arc - this would in my opinion account for there seeming to be too much drama or too many things happening to the various characters over a short period of time.
As has been mentioned in this thread the whole story has already been completed ( I believe that there are two more episodes to come ) so the writer has probably ( conjecture on my part - i’m not a writer) been forced to cut scenes in the game that would normally space out the action or dramatic events - this would probably involve mundane things like shopping,eating and dates etc.
I think part of the problem might be how you ( in general not personally) play the game too - some people have played from the beginning getting an episode and then waiting a while ( not sure of the time frame ) before playing the next episode ( they probably will have played through previous episodes a couple of times again before the next one drops too ) to their minds the dramatic events have been spaced out..possibly over a couple of months ( there might be say one dramatic scene, one or two adult scenes and some mundane character building scenes per episode) - if all episodes are played one after the other - the perception of the game might be different.. I played through the game this last way and to my mind too a lot seems to have happened - but nevertheless I think it’s an excellent game.
I think by replaying the game over a couple of times you spot little things in the dialogue and in the background that add to the overall story - little clues as to what might or might not happen in the future and also the two remaining episodes - similarly you do this to some extent in cinema now but I don’t think it is done on regular tv or soap operas yet.
I think it’s great to hear different opinions about what is an excellent game - i don’t know when the next episode is going to be released - but personally i’m looking forward to see how the story unfolds...

This has me thinking of the end of the most recent Avengers movie. Half of of the hero's (and universe) are dead... It was eluded to, but we never actually thought it would come to pass. However, we know it's not the end, and we're pretty darn certain they won't stay dead. Something will happen to either reverse or undo the recent events. While those reversals aren't likely to happen here (unless it's all a dream or play), it's hard to believe that this could be the end for a couple main characters with 2 more episodes remaining.

Events that happened in Episode 6 were fallout from things that had happened in prior episodes (rising action). While it may be sudden, it is also the appropriate stage to bring a crescendo of drama. This is the climax, with the falling action to occur next and a resolution for the ending episode.

The fact that there is so much conversing on the story arc is just a testament to the good writing. Monday morning quarterbacks that were so absorbed by the character attachment that they have suggestions for different plays to be made.

 

[Burt Reynolds Mustache]

This has me thinking of the end of the most recent Avengers movie. Half of of the hero's (and universe) are dead... It was eluded to, but we never actually thought it would come to pass. However, we know it's not the end, and we're pretty darn certain they won't stay dead. Something will happen to either reverse or undo the recent events. While those reversals aren't likely to happen here (unless it's all a dream or play), it's hard to believe that this could be the end for a couple main characters with 2 more episodes remaining.

But there's a big difference here. The ENTIRE movie sets up what Thanos' goal is. He is shown as a competent villain, he interacts CONSTANTLY with the characters. He is never seen as anything but a threat. He has complex motivations so much so that some people actually think he's not a monster (He is... but that's besides the point). Infinity War sets up what the stakes are early on. It even sets up the finger snap. All of it is seeded in the movie so that when the ending happens. It doesn't feel cheap. We all know that a lot of things will be reversed. That the disappearing people will all come back. That's set up too.

That's the complete opposite of what we have in AL when it comes to the final twist. None of the villains seem competent, much less human. We have no lead in to the event (unless you want to stretch to the stalker we see a while back) and it's played as the MOST IMPORTANT THING EVER! So if it IS walked back it will feel cheap, and if it isn't then you lose out on way too much.

 

[Enyos]

My point is that there is a set up of possible suspects with motives to cause this. Ana is quite furious, as is Peter. There is a robbery suspect and that little douche Dick. All of these 'enemies' are set up in prior episodes with the insanity (motive) level to commit such a crime.

The other part of the analogy referred more to this not being The End, but to the fact that it's not. The final decision certainly comes off as feeling that way, but we know there's more to come. It's the climax, as almost every good story arc has.

 

[Burt Reynolds Mustache]

See but it isn't enough to have suspects. Any one of the three COULD have done it... though I think realistically it would come down to either Peter or someone new entirely because of the way that different stories can play out with Ana and Dick there are certain situations which would stretch credulity even further.

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That there are suspects goes without saying. That those suspects were properly set up is what I disagree with. Even more so the event comes out of nowhere in either case... there isn't the work done to create suspense ahead of time. Not even shots from the outside of the house... not the hint that something is wrong when the girls are talking. None of that. You're thrown into a choice without the context to make it natural.

 

[Enyos]

That there are suspects goes without saying. That those suspects were properly set up is what I disagree with. Even more so the event comes out of nowhere in either case... there isn't the work done to create suspense ahead of time. Not even shots from the outside of the house... not the hint that something is wrong when the girls are talking. None of that. You're thrown into a choice without the context to make it natural.

That was what I loved about the closing scene. I was riding high on a feeling of "All right! Everything might just work out!" and then....

It's like Thor being the big bad Titan killer and powering through the antagonist, only to have Thanos look up and say "You should have gone for the head". That wave of positive emotions set up only to be knocked back down to despair in a moment.

 

[rodneyeatme]

That was what I loved about the closing scene. I was riding high on a feeling of "All right! Everything might just work out!" and then....

It's like Thor being the big bad Titan killer and powering through the antagonist, only to have Thanos look up and say "You should have gone for the head". That wave of positive emotions set up only to be knocked back down to despair in a moment.

So, you got to relive that feeling you experienced the prior update when Sneaky Pete paid a visit? Or that time you got nearly murdered by a thief? Or that other time you got knocked unconscious by Dickie? Or, closer to the mark, when the scene changed to Liam in the hospital? And who can forget seemingly ruining Megan's career by rejecting Overattached Tattooed Ex-Girlfriend?

Formula is fine. Force feeding your audience a deluge of formulaic melodrama quickly becomes an exercise in reading the text while trying to keep your eyes from rolling out of your head. At this point, I'm waiting for the town's local volcano to threaten our heroes. And if Megan has even half a brain, she (or anyone else who values their life) will not board a flight with MC when she moves to Los Angeles.

 

[Vordertur]

That was what I loved about the closing scene. I was riding high on a feeling of "All right! Everything might just work out!" and then....

It's like Thor being the big bad Titan killer and powering through the antagonist, only to have Thanos look up and say "You should have gone for the head". That wave of positive emotions set up only to be knocked back down to despair in a moment.

Except here's the problem, as Burt has been saying, it just hasn't really been set up "properly."

When we see Thanos shrug off Thor's axe strike and take out half of the Marvel universe's population, that, right there, is the culmination of literally years of real world set up. How far back was his presence in the MCU revealed? Even if you weren't a fan of the comics, didn't know who he was, the stinger that showed him as the guy calling all the shots, moving all the pawns should have given you some idea that THIS was the big dude, the guy who was going to be the real baddie. So when we spend all of Infinity War worrying about him, when we spend all of that movie watching our heroes fighting him and barely holding him off at every turn, we know what the stakes are, we know what we stand to lose if our heroes fail.

And so it looks like we might just squeak out a victory when Thor comes charging in, and then... those hopes are dashed. It's a tragic moment. It's horrifying, and it could never have happened if the writers/actors/directors/etc. hadn't spent - again - years working up to this moment, adding all those little scenes as teasers in other films, giving us all these little nuggets of information, planting these seeds, and have them flourish now, in this movie, at this time.

That's what's missing here. Not only are we/Jonas suddenly fighting a "villain" who threatens to take away everything we've built thus far (i.e. relationships with Melissa/Megan) we never even knew this person was on the radar as a villain. Never even knew they were gunning for us in that fashion. It goes back to that whole "suspense" vs. "surprise" thing from before. Anyone can throw out a "surprise" curveball. That, in and of itself doesn't take all that much skill or effort. But building up suspense, giving the audience enough information to work with, such that they KNOW something's coming, but can't quite put their finger on what it is until it hits them RIGHT in the face, well, that's a tougher thing to pull off. And it's a very fine line to walk between telegraphing too much and not telegraphing enough.

 

[PHANTOM44]

But there's a big difference here. The ENTIRE movie sets up what Thanos' goal is. He is shown as a competent villain, he interacts CONSTANTLY with the characters. He is never seen as anything but a threat. He has complex motivations so much so that some people actually think he's not a monster (He is... but that's besides the point). Infinity War sets up what the stakes are early on. It even sets up the finger snap. All of it is seeded in the movie so that when the ending happens. It doesn't feel cheap. We all know that a lot of things will be reversed. That the disappearing people will all come back. That's set up too.

That's the complete opposite of what we have in AL when it comes to the final twist. None of the villains seem competent, much less human. We have no lead in to the event (unless you want to stretch to the stalker we see a while back) and it's played as the MOST IMPORTANT THING EVER! So if it IS walked back it will feel cheap, and if it isn't then you lose out on way too much.

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[B-52reloaded]

See but it isn't enough to have suspects. Any one of the three COULD have done it... though I think realistically it would come down to either Peter or someone new entirely because of the way that different stories can play out with Ana and Dick there are certain situations which would stretch credulity even further.

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That there are suspects goes without saying. That those suspects were properly set up is what I disagree with. Even more so the event comes out of nowhere in either case... there isn't the work done to create suspense ahead of time. Not even shots from the outside of the house... not the hint that something is wrong when the girls are talking. None of that. You're thrown into a choice without the context to make it natural.

As I said before I bet money on Leah ... rejected and unstable enough to do some crazy shit like that ...

 

[Elektrosumo]

I overall enjoy this game very much, but there are a few things needing to be improved to make the game less flat.
The relationship system is very complex compared to some other games. I like the humor in this. It is perfect especially the man ,the homie is so perfect.
It's like it's breaking through the 3,5th wall.

But now I have to criticise a little.
I feel like this game is forcing you into that storyline which is true for every vn but here it feels like 3 straight lines with a few stops and curves (I do not know how to rephrase that any better).
First thing is the "trait"-system. It should be your decisions (whilst playing not before) that decide whether or not something develops a certain way and just that.
I mean just like race/class systems in RPGs it should give you a boost but you're still able to enjoy the game fully and see most or all of it later on.

I know this would need a lot of restructuring and it really is a lot of work, but that is whats needed to make this game a milestone for others to reach storywise.

As you can clearly see English is not my first language (simple things work but sometimes the point does not get through) so if there is any misunderstandings I am sorry for that.

Thanks for reading ( I hope the dev(s) actually read(s) this)

 

[Banshee647]

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[PHANTOM44]

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[Walter Victor]

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Spoiler: Another possibility?

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Now, wouldn't that be a kick in the nuts!?

 

[Walter Victor]

It's the first thing I thought when I saw the opening seen to this release.