1.90 star(s) 35 Votes

strudeltastic

Newbie
Jan 2, 2018
41
30
I dont know about you guys, but i could not be bothered to play more than 10 minutes of this game. Artstyle looks dope, its got production behind it, music is good, voice acting is decent, but MAN its designed by someone who clearly doesnt know what makes a 2d sidescroller decent. Its Ninja Gaiden on the NES levels of bad.

Enemies that attack off screen, terrible platforming collision, dont even get me started on the jump, the interrupted animation flow of all actions, the useless shield or the fact that checkpoints are not even a thing.

Right now this game doesnt qualify as "hard". Its just poorly designed and programmed. A waste of time.
What a dissapointment, honestly. The promise is there, hopefully all movement and combat gets redone in the future. Im sure (hope) they can pull it off. Everything else so far is really high quality, so fingers crossed.
Sir you are a charlatan and a scoundrel, or perhaps just a child. Ninja Gaiden (NES) was and is a classic game, it was neither poorly designed or poorly programmed. In the 2d sidescroller genre not having I-frames, enemies that attack from off screen, committed jump arcs, having actions be interrupted, and/or a lack of checkpoints were par for the course in many games and classic of that time. What you are seeing as an unfair difficulty is really just a skill issue you are having, I would suggest maybe putting your dick away and focusing on the game aspect.
 
Jun 7, 2020
104
63
so I honestly feel bad because I kinda liked the game, and its just get abandoned, glad to see its not, and they're fixing bugs finally holy fuck
 

C17H19NO3

Member
Oct 8, 2018
206
746
What you are seeing as an unfair difficulty is really just a skill issue you are having

The primary reason why "Nintendo Hard" became a trope in the first place is rather insidious, and was born out of Nintendo's hardball business practices during the NES era.

As the NES reached the peak of its popularity during 1988 to 1990, Nintendo of America began pushing hard to outlaw video game rentals in the United States. Seriously! Nintendo felt that rentals were robbing them of so many potential cartridge sales, they had to put a stop to it. (Since video game rentals had been successfully outlawed in Japan in 1984, Nintendo of America felt that accomplishing something similar in the US was a reasonable proposition.) Lobbyists were actually hired to advance the issue in Washington, but no politician seemed to be that interested in taking on video game rentals, with none of them believing that they were an outright menace.

Meanwhile, Nintendo of America noticeably began cranking up the difficulty of their new releases during the localization process. Apparently, the idea was that if a game was too difficult to beat during a weekend rental, a player would be more likely to buy the game outright. Third-party developers in particular seemed more prone to this than Nintendo with their own first-party titles; this is understandable when evaluating the situation in perspective, warped as it may be. <...>

The game mechanics that make a game "Nintendo Hard" were often transported from arcade games that required the player to spend more money to keep playing after his character was killed. Except that when they got ported over to the console, there was no coin slot, leaving you stuck with a fixed number of lives and highly limited or non-existent continues.
 
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Randonormie

Member
Nov 6, 2017
183
130
Damn, should of jst gone w my gut n off everyones displeased comments
The GOG install installed a bunch of crap I rly didnt need it to do
Have to restart to uninstall for every software it installed (n)
 

stuffinabox

Member
Aug 15, 2018
178
313
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Also guy does daily drawing and animation updates and stuff on
Never gonna understand why they don't just make a renpy incest game like DC and rake in 20 grand a month with his art and animation talent instead of making a side scroller that takes 10 times the effort and nets you nowhere near as much interest.

Self sabotage is a hell of a drug.
The dragon girl remind me "Goldbra" from Cloud Meadow.
At first I thought it was that character too. I really don't trust when people just cater to the lowest common denominator or otherwise just throw shit in the Isekai/Light Novel pit for the gluttons to mindlessly indulge in. Who cares? Certainly not the people who claim to love story but then 95% of the interest would just the the art/porn.

I thought it was in relation to cloud meadow at first too.
 

C17H19NO3

Member
Oct 8, 2018
206
746
just because Nintendo was making games harder doesn't mean that it is unfair
However, old Nintendo making games harder by unfair methods (see the related subtrope references) literally means it is unfair.

all of those games are beatable, it's just a skill issue.
If before running a 200m sprint someone breaks one of your legs right at the start, the run is beatable, it's just a skill issue, right?
 
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strudeltastic

Newbie
Jan 2, 2018
41
30
However, old Nintendo making games harder by unfair methods (see the related subtrope references) literally means it is unfair.

The afore mentioned methods weren't unfair, annoying and sometimes requiring trial and error but not unfair in most cases. Some games like Dirty Harry (NES)'s HA HA HA room were blatantly unfair but that is far from a classic game or the standard in their games. Nintendo was making games harder so that in order for you to beat them you would need practice and memorization. Making it so that you would have to buy the game to have the time to do so. That is quite literally a skill issue.

If before running a 200m sprint someone breaks one of your legs right at the start, the run is beatable, it's just a skill issue, right?

Your statement here is a poor straw man, a false equivalence, and factually incorrect. 1) You've distorted the argument into the most extreme version of itself turning it into logical fallacy. 2) Running a race injured is not the same as needing to practice and aquire skills too achieve a goal are not remotely the same. 3) By definition you could not run or sprint with a broken leg. Judging from your context this 200m sprint is a race, as such no you couldn't win with a busted hoof unless the other runners felt bad for you and let you win. I will concede you could travel 200m with a broken leg.
 

C17H19NO3

Member
Oct 8, 2018
206
746
Nintendo was making games harder so that in order for you to beat them you would need practice and memorization. Making it so that you would have to buy the game to have the time to do so. That is quite literally a skill issue.
Let's try that again, slowly and carefully: it's not about the goal, it's about the methods and implementation to achieve said goal.

If you have to "practice and memorize" because during the first attempt you are forced to fail no matter how good your previous skills were, simply because you're being set up — then there's no actual "skill" in it, no involvement of understanding of underlying mechanics or player decision-making, just a mechanical memorization of a pre-set pattern.

If you argue on a "false equivalence", let me make a more specified one: being a stuntman on the movie set, where you haven't been shown the script and don't know what exact stunts you're supposed to perform, only being able to decipher it by trial-and-error. It has been initially formulated as , but is also applicable to the most of classic NES game designs, either fully or partially.

Or, as another example, the good ol' "Souls vs Sekiro difficulty" argument. Classical Souls games are known for being "hard", however they actually become very easy if one plays by meta instead of going blind. Meaning, you may struggle to find an approach to a seemingly-difficult Souls boss by trial-and-error, or you may open a game wiki page, read about its moveset and counter-tactics, then beat said boss on a first try. On the contrary, most Sekiro bosses are able to regularly throw 50/50s which require difficult contextual counters on-the-fly, so even if you know boss' moveset on a meta level, you still are forced to git gud at the game's core combat mechanics to beat it. That follows, the former is a "perceived meta difficulty" while the latter is a "skill-based difficulty".
 
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strudeltastic

Newbie
Jan 2, 2018
41
30
Let's try that again, slowly and carefully: it's not about the goal, it's about the methods and implementation to achieve said goal.

If you have to "practice and memorize" because during the first attempt you are forced to fail no matter how good your previous skills were, simply because you're being set up — then there's no actual "skill" in it, no involvement of understanding of underlying mechanics or player decision-making, just a mechanical memorization of a pre-set pattern.

If you argue on a "false equivalence", let me make a more specified one: being a stuntman on the movie set, where you haven't been shown the script and don't know what exact stunts you're supposed to perform, only being able to decipher it by trial-and-error. It has been initially formulated as , but is also applicable to the most of classic NES game designs, either fully or partially.

Or, as another example, the good ol' "Souls vs Sekiro difficulty" argument. Classical Souls games are known for being "hard", however they actually become very easy if one plays by meta instead of going blind. Meaning, you may struggle to find an approach to a seemingly-difficult Souls boss by trial-and-error, or you may open a game wiki page, read about its moveset and counter-tactics, then beat said boss on a first try. On the contrary, most Sekiro bosses are able to regularly throw 50/50s which require difficult contextual counters on-the-fly, so even if you know boss' moveset on a meta level, you still are forced to git gud at the game's core combat mechanics to beat it. That follows, the former is a "perceived meta difficulty" while the latter is a "skill-based difficulty".
Okay but here's the problem the games we were talking about don't really change game mechanics they just introduce more obstacles. I will concede a lot of older Nintendo games had bad game design and didn't convey things very well but it was a fledgling medium at the time. Look at a game like Mega Man (NES) it almost always shows you new things before you interact with them, but it doesn't stop those games from being balls hard. When you start a game you aren't supposed to be the best at it even if you have played similar games. Let's say you've crushed your way through Super Mario (NES) that doesn't mean you're just gonna kill it in Ghost n' Goblins (NES), sure you might start ahead of a novice but the game mechanics are different and you'll have to relearn movement and game physics. Saying mechanical memorization of patterns isn't a skill is foolish, many games use that as a mechanic or even the whole game itself have you never heard of the games Concentration, Lights Out, Simon, or Bop It?

In Reset Buttons video you linked he is correct that the story missions are flawed but that is a problem with conveyance. The story missions in that game give you contradicting directions like first telling you to chase the biker but when you hop on the moto and then it tells you to take him out when all you needed to do was continue following. In the video he even says the game isn't that hard and you wouldn't run into all the same issue he went over. Hell he even answered his own posed question on why people haven't completed the game with in a minute of posing it, though he does miss that the core of the game is the open world exploration not he story.

I think you misrepresent the Souls/Sekiro debate as that was really about whither or not to add an easy mode to hardcore games. Sekiro is considered by most fans of both games as the most difficult souls game without being part of the actual game cannon. As far as game play goes both games are very trial and error as it doesn't matter how many meta videos you watch or builds you copy it'll still be hard until you play the game you haven't taken the time to build the skills in, you've just taken a short cut you still have to Git' Good. Just because you read a wiki page and watched a tutorial doesn't mean you can just drop into DS2 and kick the shit out of Asylum Demon with the broken sword on your first try. You have to learn the game feel deal with the timings of attacks and deal the pattern variance yourself to really understand how any of it works. Sekiro and Dark Souls are very different at their core as well, in the Soul's games you're the hero, the chosen one, the one fated to overcome all challenges and plunge the world into the next age regardless of how many deaths it takes you as only your indomitable spirit can rekindle the flame or have your madness doom it to total ruin. In Sekiro you're the protagonist but not the hero merely his bodyguard and a ninja to boot. You aren't meant to stand toe to toe with giants you use hit and fade tactics, assassination techniques, traps and other underhanded methods to take out stronger and more skilled foes your only advantage is the immortally forced upon you.
 

dakale

New Member
Mar 19, 2018
4
40
Sir you are a charlatan and a scoundrel, or perhaps just a child. Ninja Gaiden (NES) was and is a classic game, it was neither poorly designed or poorly programmed. In the 2d sidescroller genre not having I-frames, enemies that attack from off screen, committed jump arcs, having actions be interrupted, and/or a lack of checkpoints were par for the course in many games and classic of that time. What you are seeing as an unfair difficulty is really just a skill issue you are having, I would suggest maybe putting your dick away and focusing on the game aspect.
How about Ori and the Blind Forest, Dead Cells, Hollow Knight or even Risk of Rain 1? Those games already give really good blueprints for any indie game dev. At least Ninja Gaiden was made unfair un purpose, unlike this game. I believe you are really biased in this discussion, brother. Its fine to like the game, but you cant call this gameplay polished at all. Thats just copium.
Strive for better standars. Its a good thing for everyone.
 

LowLevelLesser

Active Member
Feb 8, 2021
822
1,051
Sir you are a charlatan and a scoundrel, or perhaps just a child. Ninja Gaiden (NES) was and is a classic game, it was neither poorly designed or poorly programmed. In the 2d sidescroller genre not having I-frames, enemies that attack from off screen, committed jump arcs, having actions be interrupted, and/or a lack of checkpoints were par for the course in many games and classic of that time. What you are seeing as an unfair difficulty is really just a skill issue you are having, I would suggest maybe putting your dick away and focusing on the game aspect.
I liked the original Ninja Gaiden games.
They were still bullshit hard though.
 

strudeltastic

Newbie
Jan 2, 2018
41
30
How about Ori and the Blind Forest, Dead Cells, Hollow Knight or even Risk of Rain 1? Those games already give really good blueprints for any indie game dev. At least Ninja Gaiden was made unfair un purpose, unlike this game. I believe you are really biased in this discussion, brother. Its fine to like the game, but you cant call this gameplay polished at all. Thats just copium.
Strive for better standars. Its a good thing for everyone.
I have to say you're the one being biased here, saying Ninja Gaiden is unpolished is just wrong. If you're talking about Almastriga I'd agree it needs polish but the game is still basically in alpha.
 
1.90 star(s) 35 Votes