Alternatives to Patreon - Maybe for Adult games
- Thread starter Ryahn
- Start date
- Jul 3, 2017
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hi first of all can someone tell what give me an update on DMD patreon issues ? .
Look i think the first step to be honest is basically Collective bargaining ( or whatever it's equivalent online ) . group as many creators together as possible and have them negotiate together instead of Patreon dealing with you one by one , i mean even DMD , one of the most profitable creators had to abide by Patreon rules .
other than that so far no one has provided us with a decent alternative , the closest one is that website run by altright ,
Look i think the first step to be honest is basically Collective bargaining ( or whatever it's equivalent online ) . group as many creators together as possible and have them negotiate together instead of Patreon dealing with you one by one , i mean even DMD , one of the most profitable creators had to abide by Patreon rules .
other than that so far no one has provided us with a decent alternative , the closest one is that website run by altright ,
- Oct 1, 2017
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A quick comparison between CCBill and paypal? How much more would their charges be? And why High-risk?
the point is, that Patreon doesn't want porn content on their platform anymore ( even though it became this famous and prolificent MAINLY because of porn material...), so they're "passively" kicking us out with impossible rules.
Or at least that's how I see it.
- Jul 30, 2017
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Any porn is deemed a high risk category by most credit card processors. The chance of fraud is considerably higher and there are more risks involved, especially when taboo content ventures into illegality or when you're hit by legal claims pertaining the content you're bankrolling. So most banks are not willing to fund. CCBill and others are established players in the porn market and don't have any qualms about most major porn genres (including BDSM and step-sibling incest).
It might be that Stripe hasn't been alerted by the content MakerSupport offers and as of yet it's mostly political stuff. It's going to be interesting when DS actually transfers to MakerSupport. Hopefully they can work something out. A platform hosted by F95 would of course be even more awesome.
Yeah, a lot of those high risk services do. On the other hand, there's a lot of full-motion step-sibling porn being cranked out, so if that's allowed it's a small matter of modding the "step" part out. As for bestiality, rape and underage content, that will still remain a problem, but it's illegal anyway. You can debate the illegality of a lewd computer generated character looking like a minor, but that nuance isn't something most companies want to deal with.
In many places bestiality with an animal over something like 26 lbs is legal. I don't know if it's legal to film, but computer generated bestiality should definitely not be held to that standard. As to the nuances, I actually don't care about the "no one is getting hurt" argument, because its the weaker argument. The real argument is that the existence of a nonviolent release prevents violent actions. This applies to rape, this applies to underage content. I'm not saying we should promote pedophilia and rape, but censoring it simply causes the people who need it to go elsewhere.
- Jul 30, 2017
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I agree! But it's sadly easier for companies to just blanket-ban anything that smells of illegality.
I would say it isn't the same. But the whole Patreon shitstorm that's been going on for more than half a year now sadly proves otherwise. It comes down to a review committee to decide what's acceptable and what's not. If I read Patreon's content guidelines correctly, you can write a regular novel or comic where incest or even rape is part of the story (as is the case with Game of Thrones or Lolita) and Patreon will allow it on their platform. If you're including it in an adult VN, and you're including it so your readers can fap to it, they will ban it.
The risk makes perfect sense to me. The problem is that repressed middle american housewife who gets the creditcard bill and goes to her husband mad asking what the fuck and he denies it so they claim it was a false charge.
- Jul 16, 2017
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it is and always has been, like the games has image/animation so it can be considered pornographic material which can be considered high risk because of fraud and chargebacks in the industry due to middle aged men denying charging to after having an all night fap session. /s
My point is that it's the argument against censorship from a legal stance. If the law reflected the science then we'd only have to contend with the risk aversion. Hell, it could be considered ableism to deny those who need it the content. You see, it's illegal to discriminate against people for mental health reasons. If you allowed adult content at all and didn't allow adult content that serviced people with the mental health issue of pedophilia for example you would be liable for discriminating.
If that were true they wouldn't be so specific about the type of porn. Verotel used to handle processing for the sickest porn coming out of the Netherlands, including bestiality, simply because there was money in it. Visa and mastercard shut them down though even while it was still legal (no longer).
The content limitations Verotel has is likely directly from Visa/Mastercard and the list has grown quite a bit since early 2000s (can't post links, but just google for "Abuse Alcohol Animal Asphyxia" with quotes). The line between captured/simulated content is legally thin so I doubt you'll find a processor comfortable with bestiality/incest/ageplay/noncon games unless it is text only or is Japanese. The best you can hope for is to simply fly under the radar, as Patreon did for a while.
If some processor could be found then you could use prepaid cards to setup a balance, even with 20+% fees that would be easier for people than using cryptocurrency. Even with cryptocurrency there is still the problem of where to incorporate. Especially with 3D rendering and ageplay the number of suitable countries is tiny.
Japan hates gaijin exposing their degeneracy to the outside world. Russia is fickle. Maybe Argentina?
PS. I didn't see the mention of Enty, seems decent but the need for a Japanese bank account is a bit of a dealbreaker for now. I doubt they'll want to deal with foreigners as creators.
- Oct 1, 2017
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And the purge of creativity and glorification of censorship continues.. just imagine how many creators already modified their game or their plans for it. If an alternative doesn't come up soon I'm pretty convinced this market (far more interesting than the usual porn) is just gonna die, be it by its quality or creativity standards or just by the lack of creators willing to invest on it.
PS: I'm just gonna end all my pledges this month, I cannot keep supporting censorship.
PS: I'm just gonna end all my pledges this month, I cannot keep supporting censorship.
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I have a very simple and low-tech solution.
Because most games end up here sooner or later anyway, there is no objective reason to support any dev via Patreon to get access. Therefore, the only real reason to pledge money on Patreon is in order to support the developer.
But why would you need a platform to support a dev?
There are plenty ways to voluntarily give money, such as:
- Paypal, because if you simply transfer money from one email adress to another one, nobody should be wiser why the money was transferred
- Bitcoin
- Paper money in envelope by post (my favourite)
So if a dev would just include the above information, he wouldn't need Patreon. There is no further action required from the dev, besides perhaps writing some words of gratitude here or on their own website.
Because most games end up here sooner or later anyway, there is no objective reason to support any dev via Patreon to get access. Therefore, the only real reason to pledge money on Patreon is in order to support the developer.
But why would you need a platform to support a dev?
There are plenty ways to voluntarily give money, such as:
- Paypal, because if you simply transfer money from one email adress to another one, nobody should be wiser why the money was transferred
- Bitcoin
- Paper money in envelope by post (my favourite)
So if a dev would just include the above information, he wouldn't need Patreon. There is no further action required from the dev, besides perhaps writing some words of gratitude here or on their own website.
- Sep 5, 2017
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I've been wondering about this myself, if those different level pledges actually work. I do believe in some rewards, e.g. voting privileges give you something extra not available to everyone. But I have doubts about rewards like early access and extra scenes, for exactly this reason.
Payments are more difficult. Bitcoin or money in envelope are highly impractical for different reasons. And secretly using Paypal for private donations is just waiting to get busted by them, because it won't stay secret forever.
Payments are more difficult. Bitcoin or money in envelope are highly impractical for different reasons. And secretly using Paypal for private donations is just waiting to get busted by them, because it won't stay secret forever.
There's nothing secret. I'd just give money to somebody else. I'm NOT buying anything. Who cares if the person I send money to also happen to develop adult games, have black hair or vote for a left-wing candidate in their free time? I doubt Paypal can block an account because of some circumstantial evidence.
With the "Money in envelope" solution, it would probably be a good idea for the dev to open a P.O. box, but that's not a big deal...
- May 8, 2017
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I was thinking lately what if we won't have new platform and Patreon will finally remove all devs from their site? Would it mean we would had the same situation as years before where games were released when they were finished by a few devs who were doing it for fun? Or what if new platform we would take was real platform on which payment is processed for a whole product? Our games are developed with monthly-releases in mind so they would all changed. So many different possibilities for future of our whole industry
Hello everybody. sorry for english. I use Google translator.
and whether it is impossible to create a site where the internal currency will be used. Analog patrona where you create an account and you have a purse on your site that you can replenish and then spend this money on this site as you want. on the idea here it will be difficult to get to know what projects donate money
or is it unrealistic
and whether it is impossible to create a site where the internal currency will be used. Analog patrona where you create an account and you have a purse on your site that you can replenish and then spend this money on this site as you want. on the idea here it will be difficult to get to know what projects donate money
or is it unrealistic
- Sep 5, 2017
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Well, I admit that it may be only my wrong impression, because I don't have personal experience with that, but I did read some stories about Paypal being a little nosy. It's not about yours, but about developer's account. Personal account receiving few thousand dollars every month in small payments does look suspicious. "Oh no, I'm not selling anything, people just send me money, because I'm cool guy" would not be very believable explanation.
I agree, it could easily look like the account is being used by a drug dealer or for some other illegal usage and I'm pretty sure that companies like Paypal actively monitor for things like that.