Alternatives to Patreon - Maybe for Adult games

[Voilsh]

Does Stripe or Paypal ever censor people?

Paypal, yes, for adult content at least.

 

[gamersglory]

Stripe has stated before that they want to work with legal adult businesses. but due to Visa and Mastercard's blanket ban on adult business they can't.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Not to mention that considering MakerSupport and Hatreon are both catering to less savory individuals, people are probably put off by them, like myself.

That's the point missed by people defending one or the other. They fail to see it from the point of view of the creators.
The problem is not just to find another site where they'll be able to raise money for their game. The said site must be reliable, easy to use (especially for the money processing part), and it must be clean enough to not repel potential donators. Just having your game available and a place where you can earn money mean nothing if half your already supporters go away because of the hate speech, or anything else, permit by the site you chose.

 

[jadajejeno]

Patreon is quite new thing itself, I don't think there are good alternatives. Also I've seen many adult content makers on Patreon, so think twise about choosing something else.

 

[Voilsh]

Stripe has stated before that they want to work with legal adult businesses. but due to Visa and Mastercard's blanket ban on adult business they can't.

Even US banks banned real porn star actresses from using their services just like that, so I'm not surprised.
Honestly, the puritan attitude around porn is ridiculous...

That's the point missed by people defending one or the other. They fail to see it from the point of view of the creators.
The problem is not just to find another site where they'll be able to raise money for their game. The said site must be reliable, easy to use (especially for the money processing part), and it must be clean enough to not repel potential donators. Just having your game available and a place where you can earn money mean nothing if half your already supporters go away because of the hate speech, or anything else, permit by the site you chose.

That's exactly what's Patreon is doing, "cleaning" stuff that could repel potential customers. So not alright with that mentality on selective censorship. Either you're neutral or you're not, there is no middle ground for me.

 

[anne O'nymous]

That's exactly what's Patreon is doing, "cleaning" stuff that could repel potential customers. So not alright with that mentality on selective censorship. Either you're neutral or you're not, there is no middle ground for me.

How can people be repelled by what they don't see and don't even know it exist ? Adult content is hidden by Patreon since a long time. You can't find a patreon page flagged adult content unless you already know what you are searching. I'm sure that half the patreon user don't even know that there's adult content (not even talking about porn) on Patreon.
At the opposite, both hatreon and the other site state in big letters that they exist to help people spread their hate.

Edit: Anyway there's a big difference, at least for me, between spreading your legs and closing your brain. So, not, it's not the same thing.

 

[CedSense]

Having looked around for some time now, I can't find one site that could provide all the things needed: Reputation, payment options and adult content allowed. If one of these is missing, it's useless.
Patreon wants to be clean and for now, us creators are tied.
If and when a good solution is available, the big names will probably move and everybody will follow I guess.

 

[Sam]

Does Stripe or Paypal ever censor people?

Yes, constantly. Adult content/Porn is explicitly forbidden by Stripe and Paypal's AUP.

 

[Ghostman95]

Yes, constantly. Adult content/Porn is explicitly forbidden by Stripe and Paypal's AUP.

But if that's true then how does patreon have adult content/porn? You said before: "Regarding Makersupport, they use Stripe and are planning to add PayPal shortly, the same processors Patreon use, meaning they're going to run into exactly the same problems as Patreon."

 

[Voilsh]

How can people be repelled by what they don't see and don't even know it exist ? Adult content is hidden by Patreon since a long time. You can't find a patreon page flagged adult content unless you already know what you are searching. I'm sure that half the patreon user don't even know that there's adult content (not even talking about porn) on Patreon.

It's obviously never enough for right wing or left wing puritans, never. It can be considered hate speech by simply existing, as after all, rape is hateful, incest is bad, and I won't even dwell into loli/shota.
And what about the violence if you made a game with lots of gore? Killing a lot of innocent people can be considered as spreading hate, after all.
Or what about prostitution? What if you can kill the prostitute in a game after using her instead of paying? Isn't that literally sexual violence?
What if the mc of a game is a white nationalist anti hero? An antifa? A criminal?
What if the dev of a porn game is a white nationalist IRL?

At the opposite, both hatreon and the other site state in big letters that they exist to help people spread their hate.

Give me the TOS that says that.
I don't give a crap if my neighbor is thinking white supremacy is great or antifas are alright in destroying things and being violent.
I just want a thing : he leaves me alone and doesn't commit violent acts (not thought crime). He can thus have the same bank as me, go to the same supermarket, and use the same online services...
I won't police his thoughts, and it's impossible after all, even more, a horrible idea.

Edit: Anyway there's a big difference, at least for me, between spreading your legs and closing your brain. So, not, it's not the same thing.

There are always good reasons to censor, yes. Doesn't mean it's a good thing.
What I try to convey here is that we all have things we don't like, but the first thing I want from a platform like patreon is to be neutral, because their role is not morality guardians, but tools providing a service. And good news: you can found only the content you like.
Once you begin to censor, why stop? Why not add violence, sexism, extreme content? Once you think you're entitled to police content, it never ends.

 

[Voilsh]

But if that's true then how does patreon have adult content/porn? You said before: "Regarding Makersupport, they use Stripe and are planning to add PayPal shortly, the same processors Patreon use, meaning they're going to run into exactly the same problems as Patreon."

Hypocrisy.
Though you can use patreon to fund perfectly SFW people, so maybe they played on that.

 

[Sam]

But if that's true then how does patreon have adult content/porn? You said before: "Regarding Makersupport, they use Stripe and are planning to add PayPal shortly, the same processors Patreon use, meaning they're going to run into exactly the same problems as Patreon."

It's thought this whole issue was triggered by their payment processors; Stripe and Paypal. Patreon have had issues with processors in the past when they had to drop Paypal for all creators in the adult category, it was only last year Paypal was restored for adult creators after striking a deal with Braintree (a Paypal subsidory).

You must be registered to see the links

Pornography and other obscene materials (including literature, imagery and other media); sites offering any sexually-related services such as prostitution, escorts, pay-per view, adult live chat features

You must be registered to see the links

You may not use the PayPal service for activities that: [...] relate to transactions involving [...] certain sexually oriented materials or services

You must be registered to see the links

You may not use the Payment Services in connection with any product, service, transaction or activity that involves: [...] sexually-oriented or pornographic products or services

Patreon were probably able to strike a deal with Braintree and Stripe, taking over compliance responsibilities. It also helps that Patreon isn't focused on adult content, and 'only' makes up 1/3 of their business. However, it's clear loli, rape and incest were one step too far.

 

[anne O'nymous]

There are always good reasons to censor, yes. Doesn't mean it's a good thing.
What I try to convey here is that we all have things we don't like, but the first thing I want from a platform like patreon is to be neutral, because their role is not morality guardians, but tools providing a service. And good news: you can found only the content you like.
Once you begin to censor, why stop? Why not add violence, sexism, extreme content? Once you think you're entitled to police content, it never ends.

Because there's a difference between allowing and promoting.
If a patreon-like agree to host people spreading hate everywhere, well... I don't like this kind of people, so I'll not say that I don't care or that it's not my problem, but I'll deal with it. But here, it's not that they agree to host them, it's that they exist because the want to host them. It's what I said above, the difference between allowing and promoting. They aren't pro free speech or against censor, they are pro hate, and they put it on display everywhere.

To use your example, it's not that I have a neighbor who's supremacist. Here I have a neighbor who put white-power flags everywhere, host a KKK bbq each day in his garden and try to convert me each time I put a foot out of my house.

Yes, constantly. Adult content/Porn is explicitly forbidden by Stripe and Paypal's AUP.

I don't know for Stripe, but for Paypal it's not a problem of moral. When they started, porn was allowed, and the subsidiary company they use with Patreon was almost created for this.
No, the problem is that there's too many frauds when it come to adult content and even more porn. And like Paypal is an intermediary between the banks, they are fucked, they are the one which will have to refund.
For banks it's not a problem, over the time they are in both side, so in the end between the refunds and the fraudulent money, they are in equilibrium. But for Paypal it's just refunding. Like they are an intermediary, the money pass through them and never stay, so they loose money and that's all. It doesn't matter for their subsidiary company, but not for Paypal itself ; they have investors, they need to have a positive financial balance sheet.
That why the few partners which accept to works with adult content/porn have fees over 7%. It compensate the refund they'll have to do.

 

[Sam]

I don't know for Stripe, but for Paypal it's not a problem of moral.

I'd disagree, just like their clampdown on file hosting/cyberlockers was a moral issue. If you search online for Paypal + adult there are tons of stories where Paypal restrict/limit accounts where the only 'issue' is processing of transactions relating to adult content, not high chargeback or refund rates. Selling physical adult DVDs is no different to selling normal DVDs, the adult DVD store shouldn't encounter a noticeable higher chargeback rate; however it's still banned from using Paypal.

 

[helion02]

Does Stripe or Paypal ever censor people?

With paypal, it's vague. They don't censor people per say, but they have a tendency to fuck over anyone who sends or receives money, on arbitrary rules that they came up with in a dream the previous night.

A friend of mine almost got screwed out of $6000 for a job he did, because paypal asked him to prove that money wasn't going to be used illegally. The only reason why they even released the money is because he threatened to take them to a small claims court.

 

[Legionaire]

Thanks. These are some great adresses to get started for me.

 

[Bruni Multimedia]

I'd disagree, just like their clampdown on file hosting/cyberlockers was a moral issue. If you search online for Paypal + adult there are tons of stories where Paypal restrict/limit accounts where the only 'issue' is processing of transactions relating to adult content, not high chargeback or refund rates. Selling physical adult DVDs is no different to selling normal DVDs, the adult DVD store shouldn't encounter a noticeable higher chargeback rate; however it's still banned from using Paypal.

Steam does sell adult games, albeit not pornographic (they are not the same thing at all).
Why can they use Paypal?

 

[Sam]

Steam does sell adult games, albeit not pornographic (they are not the same thing at all).
Why can they use Paypal?

Just like with the TV and movie industry, blood and gore is fine, sex is not.

For the sexual adult games, as long as it isn't hardcore, it wouldn't be considered pornographic, so it's fine.

 

[xןʞ]

Steam does sell adult games, albeit not pornographic (they are not the same thing at all).
Why can they use Paypal?

It is weird because Steam sells some super raunchy Japanese hentai games(Dieselmine!) that are gernally a hell of a lot more inappropriate than your average Daz3D stuff.

But they are "unpatched" so no 18+ content.

But of course every one of these games you can just go in the community hub and download the adult patch in what is usually a stickied post.

 

[Sam]

But of course every one of these games you can just go in the community hub and download the adult patch in what is usually a stickied post.

Steam have banned that practice now, around the same time as the Patreon changes. Developers can no longer link to uncensor patches anywhere on Steam