VN HTML Completed Animus Non Grata [v1.0.2] [FlimsyLegs]

[Belphegor666]

Thank you for your feedback. I was a little bit worried that the new premise would "feel flat". I may just have to make a 180 degree turn on this and just remove the "friendly scenes" when going down the defiant path. The problem always was the tone not being consistent, and the current version 0.11.0 tries to align the tone towards a common storyline regardless if you go down defiant or submissive path.

As for when you kill Don, good to know that it feels dull and weird. I would probably fix that my just adding a bit more inner dialogue and another choice in the end where you deliberately kill him for hurting you.

I finally got some free time to replay it (only played through the defiant path though) - so here my thoughts:

First - it's interesting that different players have different reactions to the changes - So leofi - tagging you, because I'm gonna use your post as a jump off point to organise my own thoughts.

1.) I liked the changes - the whole bdsm-android thing gives Don a reason for the harsher bdsm-scenes without requiring him to be a psycho. I do disagree on the agency thing - Don's reasons for punishing the MC don't take away the MC's agency in reacting to his actions. She can believe him and accept the necessity, disbelieve him and hate him for it or believe him and still hate him for it.
Don on the other hand is a semidecent person and has less of a contrast between his love and defiance path which allows you to switch between the two of them mid route (Beforehand a switch from defiant to love/reluctant submission-path made zero sense).

Before he also just punished you for his own gratification as a reward for saving you, completely ignoring the option of helping the MC out of altruism. Now that he has a justification that disallows an altruism path he seems more reasonable. (sure he is still taking advantage of the MC, but now it's more understandable because she's a hot woman in a situation that gives him a guiltfree way of living out his fetishes - no surprise that can't help indulging his desires)

Also quite a few choices seem more generous and kinder with his new motivation - he gives the MC several options to submit and get a lighter punishment and only goes for the harshest options if you keep defying him and give him no other choice.
Similarly the bath scene after one of the punishment's feels more like aftercare than him taking even more liberties. Also the nice scenes work better because he feels less twofaced and more like he's genuinely trying to be nice to her or make up for his punishments.
With the changes I could see people roleplaying a defiant path that get charmed by Don's nicer points and switch to a relectant submissive path or love path.

2.) I agree with leofi on the ending - On a high defiance path I had zero love points, so I did not get the option to decide what the Hannah mystery means, so I had to kill Don because the MC believes herself to be Hannah rather than because she hated him. (maybe an earlier point of divergence? - there is a point where you have to decide whether she "tolerates" or "respects" Don - maybe add a "hate" option that lets you start planning your escape from him and allows you to kill him for mistreating her?, maybe even an earlier PoD if you are high defiance where you start planning your escape?)
Aside from that I liked the ending - it has the highest agency of all endings because your choices and actions set you free rather than Don letting you go, which is great for a high defiance playthrough.

3.) some small things - I was a bit disappointed with the waxplay render - it looks a bit boring and no waxplay is visible at all. Maybe replace it with a render where you can actually see the wax dripped on her body?
Also I seem to have run into a bug - The ring-gag scene gets mentioned later on, but I couldn't find it - it goes straight from refusing Don several times to him putting the belt around her throat and fucking her from behind - played through it twice and there was no mention of it during the scene itself.

All in all I approve of the changes - sure you could add a lot of options depending on your interpretation of Amanda's personality, but each would add quite a bit of complexity. (For example - a player could play a high defiance path because they love the harsh punishments and would like the MC to be defiant because she secrely likes to be punished harshly, other players seem to prefer Don to be a stone cold asshole - there a probably as many desires as there are players)

I really like that you listen to our criticism, but I'd recommend listening, deciding whether you agree and then making the game you think would work best .

 

[FlimsyLegs]

I finally got some free time to replay it (only played through the defiant path though) - so here my thoughts:

First - it's interesting that different players have different reactions to the changes - So leofi - tagging you, because I'm gonna use your post as a jump off point to organise my own thoughts.

1.) I liked the changes - the whole bdsm-android thing gives Don a reason for the harsher bdsm-scenes without requiring him to be a psycho. I do disagree on the agency thing - Don's reasons for punishing the MC don't take away the MC's agency in reacting to his actions. She can believe him and accept the necessity, disbelieve him and hate him for it or believe him and still hate him for it.
Don on the other hand is a semidecent person and has less of a contrast between his love and defiance path which allows you to switch between the two of them mid route (Beforehand a switch from defiant to love/reluctant submission-path made zero sense).

Before he also just punished you for his own gratification as a reward for saving you, completely ignoring the option of helping the MC out of altruism. Now that he has a justification that disallows an altruism path he seems more reasonable. (sure he is still taking advantage of the MC, but now it's more understandable because she's a hot woman in a situation that gives him a guiltfree way of living out his fetishes - no surprise that can't help indulging his desires)

Also quite a few choices seem more generous and kinder with his new motivation - he gives the MC several options to submit and get a lighter punishment and only goes for the harshest options if you keep defying him and give him no other choice.
Similarly the bath scene after one of the punishment's feels more like aftercare than him taking even more liberties. Also the nice scenes work better because he feels less twofaced and more like he's genuinely trying to be nice to her or make up for his punishments.
With the changes I could see people roleplaying a defiant path that get charmed by Don's nicer points and switch to a relectant submissive path or love path.

2.) I agree with leofi on the ending - On a high defiance path I had zero love points, so I did not get the option to decide what the Hannah mystery means, so I had to kill Don because the MC believes herself to be Hannah rather than because she hated him. (maybe an earlier point of divergence? - there is a point where you have to decide whether she "tolerates" or "respects" Don - maybe add a "hate" option that lets you start planning your escape from him and allows you to kill him for mistreating her?, maybe even an earlier PoD if you are high defiance where you start planning your escape?)
Aside from that I liked the ending - it has the highest agency of all endings because your choices and actions set you free rather than Don letting you go, which is great for a high defiance playthrough.

3.) some small things - I was a bit disappointed with the waxplay render - it looks a bit boring and no waxplay is visible at all. Maybe replace it with a render where you can actually see the wax dripped on her body?
Also I seem to have run into a bug - The ring-gag scene gets mentioned later on, but I couldn't find it - it goes straight from refusing Don several times to him putting the belt around her throat and fucking her from behind - played through it twice and there was no mention of it during the scene itself.

All in all I approve of the changes - sure you could add a lot of options depending on your interpretation of Amanda's personality, but each would add quite a bit of complexity. (For example - a player could play a high defiance path because they love the harsh punishments and would like the MC to be defiant because she secrely likes to be punished harshly, other players seem to prefer Don to be a stone cold asshole - there a probably as many desires as there are players)

I really like that you listen to our criticism, but I'd recommend listening, deciding whether you agree and then making the game you think would work best .

Thanks for reporting the ring-gag bug. It's possible I messed something up when I rewrote the paths. I'll take a look at this for the next release.

Wax renders: I have forwarded your feedback to Synthetic Rush. It can be a limitation with daz assets, but we'll see if something can be done about this.

And I'm glad to hear you liked the new defiant path. I also like it, because just like you pointed out, it finally blends the two paths (submissive and defiant) in a way that allows you to go explore both in one playthrough and have it make sense. This was always the intention, as can be seen by the shared neutral/nice moments that happens in both paths. However, the defiant path just wasn't implemented well before.

This is a case where time will tell if this change was for the better. I'll need more feedback on this to know for sure. I am willing to go 180 on this if needed. Hopefully more players give their feedback on this topic

 

[leofi]

I finally got some free time to replay it (only played through the defiant path though) - so here my thoughts:

First - it's interesting that different players have different reactions to the changes - So leofi - tagging you, because I'm gonna use your post as a jump off point to organise my own thoughts.

1.) I liked the changes - the whole bdsm-android thing gives Don a reason for the harsher bdsm-scenes without requiring him to be a psycho. I do disagree on the agency thing - Don's reasons for punishing the MC don't take away the MC's agency in reacting to his actions. She can believe him and accept the necessity, disbelieve him and hate him for it or believe him and still hate him for it.
Don on the other hand is a semidecent person and has less of a contrast between his love and defiance path which allows you to switch between the two of them mid route (Beforehand a switch from defiant to love/reluctant submission-path made zero sense).

Before he also just punished you for his own gratification as a reward for saving you, completely ignoring the option of helping the MC out of altruism. Now that he has a justification that disallows an altruism path he seems more reasonable. (sure he is still taking advantage of the MC, but now it's more understandable because she's a hot woman in a situation that gives him a guiltfree way of living out his fetishes - no surprise that can't help indulging his desires)

Also quite a few choices seem more generous and kinder with his new motivation - he gives the MC several options to submit and get a lighter punishment and only goes for the harshest options if you keep defying him and give him no other choice.
Similarly the bath scene after one of the punishment's feels more like aftercare than him taking even more liberties. Also the nice scenes work better because he feels less twofaced and more like he's genuinely trying to be nice to her or make up for his punishments.
With the changes I could see people roleplaying a defiant path that get charmed by Don's nicer points and switch to a relectant submissive path or love path.

2.) I agree with leofi on the ending - On a high defiance path I had zero love points, so I did not get the option to decide what the Hannah mystery means, so I had to kill Don because the MC believes herself to be Hannah rather than because she hated him. (maybe an earlier point of divergence? - there is a point where you have to decide whether she "tolerates" or "respects" Don - maybe add a "hate" option that lets you start planning your escape from him and allows you to kill him for mistreating her?, maybe even an earlier PoD if you are high defiance where you start planning your escape?)
Aside from that I liked the ending - it has the highest agency of all endings because your choices and actions set you free rather than Don letting you go, which is great for a high defiance playthrough.

3.) some small things - I was a bit disappointed with the waxplay render - it looks a bit boring and no waxplay is visible at all. Maybe replace it with a render where you can actually see the wax dripped on her body?
Also I seem to have run into a bug - The ring-gag scene gets mentioned later on, but I couldn't find it - it goes straight from refusing Don several times to him putting the belt around her throat and fucking her from behind - played through it twice and there was no mention of it during the scene itself.

All in all I approve of the changes - sure you could add a lot of options depending on your interpretation of Amanda's personality, but each would add quite a bit of complexity. (For example - a player could play a high defiance path because they love the harsh punishments and would like the MC to be defiant because she secrely likes to be punished harshly, other players seem to prefer Don to be a stone cold asshole - there a probably as many desires as there are players)

I really like that you listen to our criticism, but I'd recommend listening, deciding whether you agree and then making the game you think would work best .

1)I completely disagree.
- Her being a bdsm sex android makes your defiance utterly absurd and an eventual happy ending with it to be suicidal becouse if he is right and by rebelling against this so called nature you are risking your life the defiant path is a suicidal path and thus the Animo Liberatio ending would not be an actual happy ending but merely a reprieve before your likely death.

- It does NOT make sense that you would be able to defy him so much if you had been born with that kind of programming

- I disagree with the goal of making him look kinder which to me is a cop-out. He "is" a monster, regardless of the excuse for how he treats you and thats clear even from what he says about why his wife doesnt want him anymore. The contrast between how he treated you in the love path and how he treated you in the defiant path would be solved MUCH better by simply making very clear to the player that he is nicer to his victim (you) if she submits willingly but that is totally fine in behaving like a total sadist asshole if she doesnt, underlining that even in the love path he is only nice becouse you submit willingly not becouse he respects your autonomy.

- To me the new premise takes away satisfaction to the player defiance also becouse, at least from my POV, the defiant path makes sense played as a resistence path from the POV of an heroine victim to resist and escape her evil captor. If the captor is made look somewhat "justified" in treating you like shit, it makes defeating him less satisfying

2) I agree

 

[FlimsyLegs]

1)I completely disagree.
- Her being a bdsm sex android makes your defiance utterly absurd and an eventual happy ending with it to be suicidal becouse if he is right and by rebelling against this so called nature you are risking your life the defiant path is a suicidal path and thus the Animo Liberatio ending would not be an actual happy ending but merely a reprieve before your likely death.

- It does NOT make sense that you would be able to defy him so much if you had been born with that kind of programming

- I disagree with the goal of making him look kinder which to me is a cop-out. He "is" a monster, regardless of the excuse for how he treats you and thats clear even from what he says about why his wife doesnt want him anymore. The contrast between how he treated you in the love path and how he treated you in the defiant path would be solved MUCH better by simply making very clear to the player that he is nicer to his victim (you) if she submits willingly but that is totally fine in behaving like a total sadist asshole if she doesnt, underlining that even in the love path he is only nice becouse you submit willingly not becouse he respects your autonomy.

- To me the new premise takes away satisfaction to the player defiance also becouse, at least from my POV, the defiant path makes sense played as a resistence path from the POV of an heroine victim to resist and escape her evil captor. If the captor is made look somewhat "justified" in treating you like shit, it makes defeating him less satisfying

2) I agree

When playing through the game, the player doesn't know if they are an android or not. The fact that they can rebel and be defiant, despite Don warning MC shouldn't do it, just adds to the uncertainty if MC is an android or not. This uncertainty and "mystery" that slowly builds up through the game is an important part of the story. I think the current defiant path with a less sadistic Don does work to bring out that narrative. But I will need additional user feedback on this to know if it still works, especially from players who haven't played the game yet.

 

[leofi]

When playing through the game, the player doesn't know if they are an android or not. The fact that they can rebel and be defiant, despite Don warning MC shouldn't do it, just adds to the uncertainty if MC is an android or not. This uncertainty and "mystery" that slowly builds up through the game is an important part of the story. I think the current defiant path with a less sadistic Don does work to bring out that narrative. But I will need additional user feedback on this to know if it still works, especially from players who haven't played the game yet.

It doesnt address any of my points tho
The "mystery" is present regardless anyway

 

[FlimsyLegs]

1)I completely disagree.
- Her being a bdsm sex android makes your defiance utterly absurd and an eventual happy ending with it to be suicidal becouse if he is right and by rebelling against this so called nature you are risking your life the defiant path is a suicidal path and thus the Animo Liberatio ending would not be an actual happy ending but merely a reprieve before your likely death.

- It does NOT make sense that you would be able to defy him so much if you had been born with that kind of programming

- I disagree with the goal of making him look kinder which to me is a cop-out. He "is" a monster, regardless of the excuse for how he treats you and thats clear even from what he says about why his wife doesnt want him anymore. The contrast between how he treated you in the love path and how he treated you in the defiant path would be solved MUCH better by simply making very clear to the player that he is nicer to his victim (you) if she submits willingly but that is totally fine in behaving like a total sadist asshole if she doesnt, underlining that even in the love path he is only nice becouse you submit willingly not becouse he respects your autonomy.

- To me the new premise takes away satisfaction to the player defiance also becouse, at least from my POV, the defiant path makes sense played as a resistence path from the POV of an heroine victim to resist and escape her evil captor. If the captor is made look somewhat "justified" in treating you like shit, it makes defeating him less satisfying

2) I agree

My intention was not to dismiss your thoughts and points. I do want to know if there's something in this new kinder defiant path that can be tweaked to make it feel less like cop-out without going back to sadistic asshole Don.

To be sure, Don is still a monster, and I feel the player and Amanda have plenty of reasons to hate him and defy him and not trust him, even in the kinder defiant path.

"does not make sense that you could defy him with that kind of programming" -> Could this be solved by expanding on this topic in-game? Amanda could straight up ask Don why she can defy him to begin with. The whole point here though is that Don could be lying. Even though you are an android, he could be lying about the rules that you must follow, to make you more submissive, to not want to be defiant. The questions then becomes, does it make the defiant path better or worse if Don is lying? And at what point do we reveal the truth, and how, if at all? Right now, there's no evidence that what he's saying is true, and the game doesn't reveal if he is lying or telling the truth. You're always completely in control of your actions and thoughts, even though you're rebelling. According to Don, something bad should happen, but nothing ever does.
Edit: We could reveal in the new ending that Don was lying about the rules you must follow. Marc Goodwing could know more about androids that the current ending shows, i.e. he could've studied that topic at university before the tech was banned.

"If captor is justified in treating you like shit, it makes defeating him less satisfying". -> By defeating, you mean finally killing him? Before that, defying him makes sense if you don't believe him. In the beginning, you don't know anything and just have his words to go on. Then, you start seeing clues that are in direct contrast to what Don is saying, making you doubt him more.

 

[gregers]

My intention was not to dismiss your thoughts and points. I do want to know if there's something in this new kinder defiant path that can be tweaked to make it feel less like cop-out without going back to sadistic asshole Don.

To be sure, Don is still a monster, and I feel the player and Amanda have plenty of reasons to hate him and defy him and not trust him, even in the kinder defiant path.

"does not make sense that you could defy him with that kind of programming" -> Could this be solved by expanding on this topic in-game? Amanda could straight up ask Don why she can defy him to begin with. The whole point here though is that Don could be lying. Even though you are an android, he could be lying about the rules that you must follow, to make you more submissive, to not want to be defiant. The questions then becomes, does it make the defiant path better or worse if Don is lying? And at what point do we reveal the truth, and how, if at all? Right now, there's no evidence that what he's saying is true, and the game doesn't reveal if he is lying or telling the truth. You're always completely in control of your actions and thoughts, even though you're rebelling. According to Don, something bad should happen, but nothing ever does.
Edit: We could reveal in the new ending that Don was lying about the rules you must follow. Marc Goodwing could know more about androids that the current ending shows, i.e. he could've studied that topic at university before the tech was banned.

"If captor is justified in treating you like shit, it makes defeating him less satisfying". -> By defeating, you mean finally killing him? Before that, defying him makes sense if you don't believe him. In the beginning, you don't know anything and just have his words to go on. Then, you start seeing clues that are in direct contrast to what Don is saying, making you doubt him more.

I've only played through the once a while back (and only played the defiant path) so haven't seen the rewrite, but remember finding it very weird and frustrating that the MC trusted Don in any way at all at any time, with no option for just hating him from the jump.

As I said I haven't read through the revised version, but if I were to act the backseat editor I wouldn't make him any less of an arsehole rapist, but focus on giving the MC more forceful responses to his arseholishness. The story Don tells her on waking up is preposterous on its face, with only weak and circumstantial evidence to support it. Stabbing him in the neck at the first opportunity is the reasonable and measured response.

Edit: We could reveal in the new ending that Don was lying about the rules you must follow.

I think the strength of the story is in the ambiguity and the MC's doubts about their own humanity. I was somewhat disappointed when the old defiant ending just "resolved" it with a "oh guess what the arsehole rapist was right all along, sucks to be you."

 

[Belphegor666]

My intention was not to dismiss your thoughts and points. I do want to know if there's something in this new kinder defiant path that can be tweaked to make it feel less like cop-out without going back to sadistic asshole Don.

To be sure, Don is still a monster, and I feel the player and Amanda have plenty of reasons to hate him and defy him and not trust him, even in the kinder defiant path.

"does not make sense that you could defy him with that kind of programming" -> Could this be solved by expanding on this topic in-game? Amanda could straight up ask Don why she can defy him to begin with. The whole point here though is that Don could be lying. Even though you are an android, he could be lying about the rules that you must follow, to make you more submissive, to not want to be defiant. The questions then becomes, does it make the defiant path better or worse if Don is lying? And at what point do we reveal the truth, and how, if at all? Right now, there's no evidence that what he's saying is true, and the game doesn't reveal if he is lying or telling the truth. You're always completely in control of your actions and thoughts, even though you're rebelling. According to Don, something bad should happen, but nothing ever does.
Edit: We could reveal in the new ending that Don was lying about the rules you must follow. Marc Goodwing could know more about androids that the current ending shows, i.e. he could've studied that topic at university before the tech was banned.

"If captor is justified in treating you like shit, it makes defeating him less satisfying". -> By defeating, you mean finally killing him? Before that, defying him makes sense if you don't believe him. In the beginning, you don't know anything and just have his words to go on. Then, you start seeing clues that are in direct contrast to what Don is saying, making you doubt him more.

Actually I assumed that Don .... Might not know for sure and might be wrong about the consequences. After all you seem to be the first successful android. I read it more as him not being willing to take any risk.

 

[FlimsyLegs]

Actually I assumed that Don .... Might not know for sure and might be wrong about the consequences. After all you seem to be the first successful android. I read it more as him not being willing to take any risk.

Well, that's certainly a valid way of looking at it. Looks like the ambiguous approach could work well here, as it gives room for three interpretations (he lies, he tells the truth, he is unsure)

 

[FlimsyLegs]

I've only played through the once a while back (and only played the defiant path) so haven't seen the rewrite, but remember finding it very weird and frustrating that the MC trusted Don in any way at all at any time, with no option for just hating him from the jump.

As I said I haven't read through the revised version, but if I were to act the backseat editor I wouldn't make him any less of an arsehole rapist, but focus on giving the MC more forceful responses to his arseholishness. The story Don tells her on waking up is preposterous on its face, with only weak and circumstantial evidence to support it. Stabbing him in the neck at the first opportunity is the reasonable and measured response.



I think the strength of the story is in the ambiguity and the MC's doubts about their own humanity. I was somewhat disappointed when the old defiant ending just "resolved" it with a "oh guess what the arsehole rapist was right all along, sucks to be you."

Thanks for the feedback. This is the first time someone has commented on that particular ending being disappointing that it turns out he was right. It is possible the new defiant path fixes this though, as Don will come across as a slightly smaller asshole. If you have time, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the new version.

 

[FlimsyLegs]

Patch 0.11.1 is out that:

- Fixes ring-gag mentioned but not seen bug
- Adds the option to kill Don either because you think you're Hanna, or because you want revenge for the abuse
- Removes mention of Don enjoying to hurt you in a 1 passage (old sadistic Don dialogue that I missed)

 

[leofi]

My intention was not to dismiss your thoughts and points. I do want to know if there's something in this new kinder defiant path that can be tweaked to make it feel less like cop-out without going back to sadistic asshole Don.

To be sure, Don is still a monster, and I feel the player and Amanda have plenty of reasons to hate him and defy him and not trust him, even in the kinder defiant path.

"does not make sense that you could defy him with that kind of programming" -> Could this be solved by expanding on this topic in-game? Amanda could straight up ask Don why she can defy him to begin with. The whole point here though is that Don could be lying. Even though you are an android, he could be lying about the rules that you must follow, to make you more submissive, to not want to be defiant. The questions then becomes, does it make the defiant path better or worse if Don is lying? And at what point do we reveal the truth, and how, if at all? Right now, there's no evidence that what he's saying is true, and the game doesn't reveal if he is lying or telling the truth. You're always completely in control of your actions and thoughts, even though you're rebelling. According to Don, something bad should happen, but nothing ever does.
Edit: We could reveal in the new ending that Don was lying about the rules you must follow. Marc Goodwing could know more about androids that the current ending shows, i.e. he could've studied that topic at university before the tech was banned.

"If captor is justified in treating you like shit, it makes defeating him less satisfying". -> By defeating, you mean finally killing him? Before that, defying him makes sense if you don't believe him. In the beginning, you don't know anything and just have his words to go on. Then, you start seeing clues that are in direct contrast to what Don is saying, making you doubt him more.

"does it make the defiant path better or worse if Don is lying?" It makes it MUCH better as it does avoid making it a Suicidal path as i said. Yeah ifyou decide to keep the new premise Goodwine revealing at the end as someone more knowledgable that Don was lying would be very good at reassuring the player that thir happy defiant ending is not suicidal

 

[FlimsyLegs]

Version 0.12.0 is out now on the itch.io page (

You must be registered to see the links

). Soon it will be updated here on f95 too. We have now roughly 35% of the images done for Sequence 3.

leofi The modifications we discussed are added, making it uncertain if Don was telling the truth or not about the rules Amanda has to follow. This is seen only in the new happy defiant ending.

Belphegor666 Wax-play render for sequence 1 as tricky, but possible! Synthetic Rush did some magic and replaced the old 1-157 image with a wax-play variant.

0.12.0 changelog:

You must be registered to see the links

 

[leofi]

Version 0.12.0 is out now on the itch.io page (

You must be registered to see the links

). Soon it will be updated here on f95 too. We have now roughly 35% of the images done for Sequence 3.

leofi The modifications we discussed are added, making it uncertain if Don was telling the truth or not about the rules Amanda has to follow. This is seen only in the new happy defiant ending.

Belphegor666 Wax-play render for sequence 1 as tricky, but possible! Synthetic Rush did some magic and replaced the old 1-157 image with a wax-play variant.

0.12.0 changelog:

You must be registered to see the links

I read it and these are my two criticisms:

1) the scene abt Godwin telling you that its just not good enough imo. When it says
"It takes you a moment to compose yourself, mulling over everything Don said, eveything he did to you, putting it into perspective of what Marc has just said. Marc, who by his own admission, is no expert on the subject. And yet, you want to believe him. His explanation makes sense to you, right? Don was simply looking for someone to hurt, to control, to fuck... Helping you wasn't his ultimate goal, was it? But then there were Don's moments of kindness, the genuine caring, the painstaking effort to seek a cure from the failsafe... You just can't make sense of it all right now."
Amanda should NOT at this point feel in any way conflicted about Don, she should hate him and should be glad he is dead and that his tale about her needing to be hurt had been a lie, she should not be wondering if deep down he wasnt evil.
Also at the end when it says "
"But you still don't know what to believe. About what Don and Marc have told you. Are you a slave to the behavioural rules the programmers at AIRI put on you, as a bdsm sex android, or are you a true general intelligence, capable of forging your own path without restrictions? Only time will tell" NO, it should be very clear to Amanda, and to the player, at this final point that Don had lied and that she is now free to find happiness by being free, she should "NOT" still be doubting.
2) The scene when she kills DOn becouse of his abuse is even more weak. Its all in a blur and very short, with no dialogue nor confrontation at all and she feels sorry about it which is weird. LIke maybe she shouldnt feel "happy", but she should at least feel "relief" to have killed her abuser instead of not feeling anything.

FlimsyLegs

 

[leofi]

ALso i would like to suggest something about the submissive path

In the submissive path he does still feel like an asshole in a way that makes your love for him look extremely weird. He should be MUCH more tolerant and kind with you if you submit willingly and not force you if you only follow his orders halfway (like he should accept that on some things you may not be in the mood or need more time as long as overall you comply). As it is right now imo it just doesnt make sense for Amanda to love him even if she herself is into bdsm

 

[FlimsyLegs]

leofi Thanks for the feedback. I'll see if I can incorporate these things into the story. Ultimately, however, the attempt is to have a "dark stockholm syndrome" type of story where, despite the abuse, the victim (Amanda) may end up liking or even loving the abuser. She doesn't have any perspective of what a normal relationship is, after all.

 

[demidemon]

I read it and these are my two criticisms:

1) the scene abt Godwin telling you that its just not good enough imo. When it says
"It takes you a moment to compose yourself, mulling over everything Don said, eveything he did to you, putting it into perspective of what Marc has just said. Marc, who by his own admission, is no expert on the subject. And yet, you want to believe him. His explanation makes sense to you, right? Don was simply looking for someone to hurt, to control, to fuck... Helping you wasn't his ultimate goal, was it? But then there were Don's moments of kindness, the genuine caring, the painstaking effort to seek a cure from the failsafe... You just can't make sense of it all right now."
Amanda should NOT at this point feel in any way conflicted about Don, she should hate him and should be glad he is dead and that his tale about her needing to be hurt had been a lie, she should not be wondering if deep down he wasnt evil.
Also at the end when it says "
"But you still don't know what to believe. About what Don and Marc have told you. Are you a slave to the behavioural rules the programmers at AIRI put on you, as a bdsm sex android, or are you a true general intelligence, capable of forging your own path without restrictions? Only time will tell" NO, it should be very clear to Amanda, and to the player, at this final point that Don had lied and that she is now free to find happiness by being free, she should "NOT" still be doubting.
2) The scene when she kills DOn becouse of his abuse is even more weak. Its all in a blur and very short, with no dialogue nor confrontation at all and she feels sorry about it which is weird. LIke maybe she shouldnt feel "happy", but she should at least feel "relief" to have killed her abuser instead of not feeling anything.

FlimsyLegs

It's been awhile since I last checked this game. From my last playthrough, I actually felt torn when making decision throughout the whole game because in my playthrough MC was unable to tell if shes an android or not, or whether Don was telling the truth. MC's lack in common knowledge made things even harder.

I chose to believe that MC didn't even know what sex mean at the beginning of the game and has no special feelings against it. Even at the end of the game she was still unsure whether shes an android or human. Her feelings towards Don was complicated, she could not tell if Don was risking his life to protect her, she could not tell if his fetish or the sex was okay. Also, stockholm syndrome seems very possible to be happening.

Now whether Don is evil totally depends on the world's attitude towards androids. Things could be different if everyone in that world agrees that androids should be heavily monitored or completely removed. It's also different if people there believes that androids should only be treated as machines or sex toy but not as an living creature or human.

While in our world and our values we would most likely consider Don evil, is it possible that Don is actually treating androids better than most others in that world?

 

[daison78]

I'm just waiting for images... feels like half the fun without them and I am stuck at some point where there are only placeholders.

 

[leofi]

1)" chose to believe that MC didn't even know what sex mean at the beginning of the game and has no special feelings against it." I mean if thats the case Don is even "more" evil as he is basically doing, mentally speaking, tantamaount to child sexual abuse? We would not say that a child abuser isnt "evil" or that the child isnt "abused"/"hurt" simply becouse "he/she doesnt know what sex is yet"
2)Don is evil regardless of society's attitude towards androids. If a society is evil overall it doesnt make its members non evil, they are still evil. Maybe they are less personally guilty for having become evil, as it was more something they learned by society, but the fact that they are evil doesnt change

It's been awhile since I last checked this game. From my last playthrough, I actually felt torn when making decision throughout the whole game because in my playthrough MC was unable to tell if shes an android or not, or whether Don was telling the truth. MC's lack in common knowledge made things even harder.

I chose to believe that MC didn't even know what sex mean at the beginning of the game and has no special feelings against it. Even at the end of the game she was still unsure whether shes an android or human. Her feelings towards Don was complicated, she could not tell if Don was risking his life to protect her, she could not tell if his fetish or the sex was okay. Also, stockholm syndrome seems very possible to be happening.

Now whether Don is evil totally depends on the world's attitude towards androids. Things could be different if everyone in that world agrees that androids should be heavily monitored or completely removed. It's also different if people there believes that androids should only be treated as machines or sex toy but not as an living creature or human.

While in our world and our values we would most likely consider Don evil, is it possible that Don is actually treating androids better than most others in that world?

 

[gregers]

Thank you for your feedback. I was a little bit worried that the new premise would "feel flat". I may just have to make a 180 degree turn on this and just remove the "friendly scenes" when going down the defiant path. The problem always was the tone not being consistent, and the current version 0.11.0 tries to align the tone towards a common storyline regardless if you go down defiant or submissive path.

As for when you kill Don, good to know that it feels dull and weird. I would probably fix that my just adding a bit more inner dialogue and another choice in the end where you deliberately kill him for hurting you.

I played this once before a while back, but just played through the rewrite of the defiant path (skimming some sections). The changed premise didn't do much for me beyond giving Don a flimsy excuse to indulge his worst impulses; rather than just an arsehole rapist he became a hypocritical arsehole rapist, pretending against all reason to be doing it for the MC's good.

As you point out youself, the main challenge for the number of paths in the game is tonal inconsistency, and that definitely reared its head more than a few times, with the MC suddenly acting affectionate towards or initiating sex with or only having the choice between "respecting" and "tolerating" Don (and not, say, loathing and despising him). But of course there are limits to how many variations you can reasonably include in one game without it getting out of hand. And the people who play non-defiant paths deserve a solid, consistent and coherent experience as well.

The added option for killing Don was definitely appreciated.