It's really not that much harder than it'd be if all options were to be available. In fact, in game dev most bugs come from variable acting unexpectedly, thus, having variables turned off can help alleviate the amount of unexpected behavior. The real challenge comes from the writing point of view, as it can be difficult to keep track of different paths the story may take if one isn't diligent. Even if it did become an issue on the programming, which it may well be as neither you and I know nothing of the coding process, I find holding more ambition in contempt for the amount of work it will lead to be... an odd stance to take. This point would hold more weight if the devs didn't update the game frequently, as it stands, the multiple paths don't seem to detriment development.Even if we assume there is some plan that'll make some sense, I don't see why pursuing it could ever be wise. It's not only a nightmare to track and debug for the dev,
Putting aside the fact that there is an option to play any one mission without having to do the entire route via chapter select, I fail to see how this is any different from any other game with multiple romance options. If there weren't any gated choices, you'd still need to do all the content beforehand, the only difference being whether it's gonna be in one playthrough or another. Every player that isn't a completionist wouldn't be able to experience all the content in an update if said content is in a route they didn't do, regardless of locked content or not.severely restricts content the average non-completionist player gains access to every update.
I think you're severely overestimating the amount of variance there actually is in the game. Most games with choices have an option X or Y, that then splinter off into XX or XY; YX or YY; XXY or XXX, and so on. This one only has three sets of X or Y choices that are mostly independent from one another, plus some other variables here and there that the game notifies you about. Doing a walkthrough of this game wouldn't be anywhere near as difficult to making one of an average rpg, or hell, a classic dating sim. And even then, you have a built in hints system to guide you and chapter select that specifically tells you the requirements and variables for a mission.And this game splinters off so aggravatingly often that even a walkthrough seems to be a herculean task to maintain.
Fair point my friend.Or follow (see Twisted Fate).
Here you're repeating your point where you stubbornly refuse to consider that there might be narrative and thematic reasons behind the Jacklyn, Flora mutually exclusive content without arguing against any of our points. You present subjective opinions as objective facts and that isn't a good way to debate.And unless the goal is to force MC into monogamy, then why enforce Flora over specifically just Jacklyn? That can't really be anything but arbitrary, in so far as MC is screwing around with the rest anyway. So if it's just to setup the emotional scenes, it seems you may as well just allow the player access to her major scenes in some other way.
I feel that would cheapen the moment and Flora's overarching plot of losing the ones you love. But, I can see something like that working for that particular scene. The next choice in Suitable Romance would be harder to find a way around, as there Flora's problem is with the MC even going on a date, and odds are all later choices may have higher stakes and feel less arbitrary. That's the reason why I argue to wait and see with Maxine/Lindsey, the devs already showed the choices having rising importance, even if the first options seem rather small.E.g. You cancel the Jacklyn date for a heartfelt moment with Flora. Sometime later when the moment has passed, you get a text message from Jacklyn where she requests help on an art project, inviting you to meet her by the bus at night. Alternatively, just save the bus scene for some other quest and have the player sacrifice a less crucial scene.
I can see reasons. You can say that the MC doesn't trust Maxine unless he does her route, you can say that the MC finds helping Lindsey to be a matter requiring all his own efforts in saving her, a focal point in her story, you can just say that the MC plainly didn't have time to do both as he's working in bettering himself and dealing with Kate/Isabelle, the game says that the MC doesn't take Maxine's words seriously if you don't choose her and a million more. The same way you don't see a reason behind a design choice, I can see several. Besides, the MC later on does follow up on Maxine's lead if you go the Lindsey's route, so it's not like the devs didn't have this in mind.In a case like Maxine vs Lindsey, MC is not even given the thinnest veneer of why he needs to choose between fetching Lindsey a water bottle and looking into "ley lines".
Why? In that moment it didn't seem that serious. After it escalates, MC goes to Maxine like you say.it would actually be expected for MC to follow both leads.
The game is like 2 to 3 hours long at max if you know what to do, and you do since the game comes with a hint system, and you only need to do two playthroughs to see every major thing. The time investment argument seems odd to me, as if you wanted to see all content, you'd spend the same amount of hours be they in one playthrough or two, minus like 30 minutes in scenes you'll always see regardless of choices that you can skip and go through them in less than a minute.But frankly in a game with this insanely long a build up, he's the one that ironically needs to choose his story branches more wisely because every additional playthrough is an extraordinary ask.
I do know about coding, I've been using the code as my walkthrough and even fixed my critical bug manually. In general this isn't accurate. Having a variable not set/off generally leads to at least as many bugs as having them on. There's also far more choices being tracked there than you probably think. Which is nice for flavor, but less fun for needless lock-outs.It's really not that much harder than it'd be if all options were to be available. In fact, in game dev most bugs come from variable acting unexpectedly, thus, having variables turned off can help alleviate the amount of unexpected behavior. The real challenge comes from the writing point of view, as it can be difficult to keep track of different paths the story may take if one isn't diligent. Even if it did become an issue on the programming, which it may well be as neither you and I know nothing of the coding process, I find holding more ambition in contempt for the amount of work it will lead to be... an odd stance to take. This point would hold more weight if the devs didn't update the game frequently, as it stands, the multiple paths don't seem to detriment development.
Not at all, acknowledging it simply doesn't invalidate the argument. Flora's objections are not to MC dicking her spiritual opposite. So foil or not, the "sacrifice" is already short-lived and superficial given other relationships. Otherwise, how does MC being able to bend Isabelle over the piano the next morning for her daily creampie not "cheapen the moment"? That is far worse than allowing MC to have a spontaneous one night "mistake" with Jacklyn days later.Here you're repeating your point where you stubbornly refuse to consider that there might be narrative and thematic reasons behind the Jacklyn, Flora mutually exclusive content without arguing against any of our points. You present subjective opinions as objective facts and that isn't a good way to debate.
I feel that would cheapen the moment and Flora's overarching plot of losing the ones you love. But, I can see something like that working for that particular scene. The next choice in Suitable Romance would be harder to find a way around, as there Flora's problem is with the MC even going on a date, and odds are all later choices may have higher stakes and feel less arbitrary. That's the reason why I argue to wait and see with Maxine/Lindsey, the devs already showed the choices having rising importance, even if the first options seem rather small.
Hard to follow your reasoning here. MC obviously entertains Maxine crackpottery plenty in other quests. And the idea that MC doesn't have time is not supported by the fact that there is no narrative time crunch imposed. Nor is fetching water time consuming. The fact that one needs to resort to such poor rationalizations instead of being presented with an organic reason is already textbook artificial gating. This is not an issue you run into with Kate and Isabelle.I can see reasons. You can say that the MC doesn't trust Maxine unless he does her route, you can say that the MC finds helping Lindsey to be a matter requiring all his own efforts in saving her, a focal point in her story, you can just say that the MC plainly didn't have time to do both as he's working in bettering himself and dealing with Kate/Isabelle, the game says that the MC doesn't take Maxine's words seriously if you don't choose her and a million more. The same way you don't see a reason behind a design choice, I can see several. Besides, the MC later on does follow up on Maxine's lead if you go the Lindsey's route, so it's not like the devs didn't have this in mind.
Cause he's still interested in solving it? If I'm trying to open a locked door and have two keys that might fit on me, why would I only try one before walking away? Expected human behavior would obviously be try both unless I have a good reason not to.Why? In that moment it didn't seem that serious. After it escalates, MC goes to Maxine like you say.
This seems like a rather hyperbolic response to the feedback, don't you think? I'm fine with a slow build up, minigames, exploration. I'm even fine with big choices like Kate. I'm merely criticizing the implementation of a few irrationally punitive choices. The ones that needlessly reduce playthrough content to artificially increase replayability.A lot of people in here really bash this game's every attempt at trying to be engaging. Minigames are useless, exploration and puzzles are dumb and impossible, multiple playthroughs are a waste of time. It's no wonder WEGs have a bad rep if its players seem to despise when they try to be more than just sex scenes collectathons.
probably mer is the nurse in my opinion.Not that it changes the nature of my criticism, this post is intriguing. In that it essentially reveals who "Mer" must be, as the obvious foil to Mrs L. Also explains why neither have gotten substantive content yet.
Not that it changes the nature of my criticism, this post is intriguing. In that it essentially reveals who "Mer" must be, as the obvious foil to Mrs L. Also explains why neither have gotten substantive content yet.
I do think that Mer is a foil to Mrs. L, but I don't think that she's any of the characters that appeared yet. I'll quote a few lines from "Mrs. L's Argument":probably mer is the nurse in my opinion.
at least it's not some character who hasn't been seen yet
probably mer is the nurse in my opinion.
at least it's not some character who hasn't been seen yet
Maybe I thought it was more obvious than it is, but imo I think it's basically guaranteed to be Jo. To address some of your points:I do think that Mer is a foil to Mrs. L, but I don't think that she's any of the characters that appeared yet. I'll quote a few lines from "Mrs. L's Argument":
Due to #2 Mer cannot be any of the students or Jacklyn. #1 excludes Jo because the MC would instantly recognise her voice. #3 hints that she shouldn't be the Nurse (plus the Nurse is too meek to speak like that).
- [Narrator] Huh? Who is that? // I feel like I've heard her voice before. → The MC is acquainted with Mer, but not too close to her.
- [Mrs. L] Have you lost your last marbles, you crazy old bitch? → Mer is older or at least the same age as Mrs. L, otherwise the insult wouldn't make sense.
- [Mrs. L] You never set food inside my classroom. Why now? → Mer is supposed to check classrooms once in a blue moon.
I'm placing my bets on the janitor. She's hidden in plain sight, while Mrs. L is flashy; one is a teacher, another is simply school staff; at least in the pic she's old enough so the insult would connect; and Mrs. L and the janitor tend to do things to piss each other off (such as using a cleaning broom as dildo, or using lemon-scented cleaning agents on the school).
I agree that of all the characters we know of, Jo's the most likely. Great points.Maybe I thought it was more obvious than it is, but imo I think it's basically guaranteed to be Jo. To address some of your points:
1. The reason why she sounds familiar is because her voice is the same, but her cold manipulative speech is the complete opposite of the Jo that MC knows. He is not able to make the association between the cruel utilitarian he's listening to and his loving mother.
2. Jo is indeed one of the oldest characters and this alone helps narrow it down to her and two others.
3. While she obviously isn't out of place in the school, unlike a janitor or student she never really has a good reason to be in Mrs. L's classroom which explains the reaction.
As for my own reasons beyond this:
- She is a clear foil in that whereas Mrs L is shown to be slutty and attention seeking, Jo is shown to be romantic and reserved.
- Whereas Mrs L events are about perverted pursuits like pool molestation and naughty video tapes, Jos events are all about romantic gestures like picnics in the park and taking care of loved ones when they are ill.
- Whereas Mrs. L tries to hog MC's focus by inserting herself into dates, Jo facilitates romance with indirect actions like leaving a trophy case unlocked or bending rules to enable parties. Jo's constantly helping MC get with girls, trusting MC and excusing herself more than a mother or principal logically would (Home alone w/ Jacklyn, Isabelle's school dinner). She never gets directly involved. A known restriction on Mer.
- Unlike any other character, she also always gains love points when MC shows interest in other age appropriate women. In theory, this is because she's a mom. But in practice this sets things up perfectly for a route conflict with Mrs L. She is the only character that encourages MC to date others. Which aligns with what we know Mer's goals are.
- If we work on the theory that key characters are constructed around foils to the point where even the sister has one, then Jo also needs to have one. And by process of elimination, there aren't many characters that can be Jo's foil. The nurse already has too much hardcore content to force a choice. The nurse's foil is most likely someone ancillary like the guard, which is why she has this much content without a conflict.
- If the goal is to act as a narrative foil, it would be strange to introduce it this much later into the story. Imo, it has to be someone there from the start.
This last bit is more of a stretch but early on, MC has the option to guess that the unknown number texting him is Jo which is met with a denial. In the context of this theory, this would be the perfect way to throw people off Jo's trail early as the assumption is that the unknown number is Mer. But that's not necessarily the same person.
In fact, the person texting then is more likely to be the person giving the second chance and in part responsible for the rules on both Mrs. L and Jo. Imo, this is probably where the janitor fits in as the only person that was kind to MC in his previous life. Also in line with the almighty janitor trope in media. And if the janitor is in fact something akin to a god, then Maya as the AI hints at is likely indeed something akin to the devil merely pretending to be a victim.
I totally forgot about that scene as I tend to lose focus in game dream sequences. But yes absolutely that mirrored situation would obviously be foreshadowing. Almost too on the nose as she even uncharacteristically sat at Mrs. L desk. MC's subconscious is hinting that there is something off about her personality. As in either it's outright fake or just masking another darker side.I agree that of all the characters we know of, Jo's the most likely. Great points.
To add to that, there is also the Table Manners quest, given by Ms. L, to get a letter to Jo where she is very mysteriously and uncharacteristically absent from school. Then later on you get a dream sex scene with Jo that is almost the exact same as the one you get with Ms. L during the infamous Mer meeting. This alone seems pretty damning in my opinion.
And her being a manipulative, machiavellian schemer would be consistent with some hints of her deeper character we've seen thus far, like sucking her way to top, being more concerned of children trying to kill themselves in school grounds rather than them dying at all, and her clear favoritism of Flora and her achievements - although this last point is fairly weaker as it's hard to say how much of Jo's treatment of Flora we're supposed to take as a joke and how much reflects her character, as she clearly still loves the MC deeply and, if she is indeed involved in the whole time reversal thing, still does even when he ended up as a complete waste of space.
The AI suggests Maya was behind it and that so far is the only real contribution that "all seeing" character has had to the plot. So while she may have in some way intentionally or unintentionally assisted, I don't think Mer was the one directly responsible for that one.wasnt Mer is that who has chating with Lindsey before jump? if Jo is Mer, why want damage her own school's reputation?
I was gonna mention that part as one possible flaw in the Mer is Jo theory, but then I thought that there might be multiple entities at play here.wasnt Mer is that who has chating with Lindsey before jump? if Jo is Mer, why want damage her own school's reputation?
I don't think that to be the case. The creators made it a point to show that Jo wasn't in the school and was arriving. I can see two reasons for that, either we are meant to think that Jo isn't coming and had no intention to do so, or that she wasn't there and had no power to do anything.And if this is the case, my guess is she was at the school skulking around like Mrs. L when Lindsey was on the roof and never had any intention to intervene.
it is very intersting idea and it could be right.I believe that Mer and whoever is behind the doll to be two different people playing with same mind.
I wouldn't put it past Jo to fake arriving, in fact that's what I expect that type of duplicitous character to do.I don't think that to be the case. The creators made it a point to show that Jo wasn't in the school and was arriving. I can see two reasons for that, either we are meant to think that Jo isn't coming and had no intention to do so, or that she wasn't there and had no power to do anything.
I believe that if Jo had never arrived as she said to the MC he would've mentioned it - although this could be seen as her showing up just late enough to have plausible deniability.
Now I'm inclined to think the latter option to be correct, as it's a point made during the mission that staff wouldn't be in attendance of the party, so it'd be the perfect chance for the person behind the doll to do their thing without Ms. L, Jo, or possibly the janitor interfering.
As I'm writing this I'm sorta starting to suspect Isabelle, as she:
-Is known to be vengeful, taking things too far in her pursuit of justice and Lindsey stole her precious chocolate.
-Wasn't in the school before so she's an anomaly.
-Came up with the party idea, giving the doll the perfect chance to strike.
Maybe Maya is a red herring, as it'd be too obvious in my opinion.
Completely agree with you. After writing that idea, I went back to check the mission and you can actually never let Isabelle leave your sight for a second. At first I thought when the MC went to have fun with Kate is when the doll stuff would take place, but you can convince her to just clean up and go back to the party by your side, never giving her a chance to do anything. It's probably Maya as you say, maybe Maya being manipulated by something to try and add more depth.While the isabella take is interesting, her events are too in focus and dynamic throughout that night to really be involved in a second conspiracy imo. It is possible, but that character would be doing a little too much on that night between hosting a party, organizing a trap against kate, cleaning up and/or busting MC.