Anyone else sick of all the slow paced adult games?

[Avaron1974]

Stance has kinda changed since January.

I've tried a few slow burn games and came to conclusion very few hold my interest. Some of them are downright garbage.

There are some that just don't seem to go anywhere. Project Hotwife was one. It was always moving sideways, never managed to get any forward momentum but the characters weren't good enough to carry it. The only character of interest was the wife of the MC and she wasn't exactly a great character. Even the dev knew how shit some of his characters were, you had the option to completely skip any scenes involving the MC he was that bland.

A game needs a solid story and amazing characters to stand on it's own with no erotica. Miss just one of those and you have something that won't last or ever take off.

 

[Once_Up]

The problem is not the slow-paced story, but the boring and uninteresting story, and like what many have said before if I want a quick wank I'd rather watch porn.

 

[Deleted member 2808899]

One of the side effects of moving too quickly is where to go next. If the MC and a potential love/sex interest are banging away 10 minutes into the game, what do you do 15 minutes into the game? And then 20 minutes? Introduce a new character to repeat the same fast resolution? And then another? Harem-style games can turn into this. When I reach the point that I'm skipping sex scenes because there is no interest in seeing the payoff (or of seeing the same payoff repeated ad nauseum), then I know the game has hit a plot loop that it is unlikely to break out of.

 

[Deleted member 2808899]

A game needs a solid story and amazing characters to stand on it's own with no erotica.

My attitude is that the VN (assuming we're talking about VNs here) has to enjoyable without pictures. Better with pictures, sure. But if you can read it and know what happens, understand the differences in the characters in the way they talk, and care about what they're going to say or do next, then you've got something special. In fact, I've written about how the focus on the visuals actually reduces enjoyment for me for many games -- the visuals either get in the way of seeing the text, or the visuals are an attempt to compensate for bad text.

 

[Deleted member 2808899]

The problem is not the slow-paced story, but the boring and uninteresting story, and like what many have said before if I want a quick wank I'd rather watch porn.

Judging from the quality of plots offered up these days by major studios (yeah, I'm looking at you, JJ Abrams and Bad Robot), writing good plots with believable characters is hard. Maybe we should be more forgiving of badly paced or plotted VNs here -- so many bad examples out there raking in millions from undiscriminating audiences.

 

[gunderson]

In spite of all the lies circulating around about how you're a jerk if you imply that people are milking or whatever, the rise of Patreon has necessitated that you either plan to extend a game's development forever or have future game projects you're planning to start, or risk losing out on your source of funding. So, the initial assumption in playing any Patreon game is that it's going to be in perpetual development unless you know for a fact that the dev has a history of actually completing games.

What that tends to mean pretty often, unfortunately, is that the sex gets put off forever, at least with the main girl. I don't think that that's a remotely necessary implication, but a dev who can't imagine there being any purpose for a main character in a porn game beyond boning is likely to think in those terms. If the goal in a porn game is to creampie Mary, for example, then to keep development going forever you need to put off creampieing Mary until nearly the end of the game, so you never jizz in Mary's pussy until the dev has exhausted him/herself. This also has the unfortunate consequence that, especially if development has gone on for a long time (see the works of MrDots, for example), it can be tens of hours of clicking through VN dialogue to actually get to the P in V sex scenes with the main object of lust.

Thankfully, there's a solution: have a bigger story than just getting in a lady's pussy. I've come and gone a few times on Summertime Saga, for example, but that game does at least have a more overarching story than just 'bang your mom to win!' You have to find out what happened to your dad, pay off the house, and find a date to the high school prom *cough cough* sorry, college dance. It's pretty humdrum as narrative goals go, but it's enough to allow DarkCookie to structure an actual game where boning ladies can help lead to the conclusion of the story without the boning actually being the point of the story itself (even if it's obviously the point of the game), and can even provide enough flexibility to add more ladies and more sub-stories with their own rises and falls and conclusions that don't themselves completely end the game.

This doesn't and shouldn't mean that every sex sub-story should immediately resolve itself into creampies with whatever side character. But it does mean that pacing and enjoyment should lead sex stories, not just putting off ending a game. If that's why you blue-ball players for years, then it sounds like you didn't design your game well.

Note: there's nothing wrong with intentionally blueballing your players if that's the fetish you're going for, but I think that's a whole different discussion.

 

[Deleted member 2808899]

Thankfully, there's a solution: have a bigger story than just getting in a lady's pussy.

For that to work, you need a well-rounded cast of characters with goals and motivations that go beyond mere physical gratification. In other words, good writing. I'm going to be revealing my age a bit here, but there was a great episode of Barney Miller in which the character of Detective Harris is tapped by the NYPD to write a porno. Wait, what? It was a goofy premise that the NYPD wanted to infiltrate the sex trade, and so wanted to commission a porn movie as part of the effort (something like that -- we're talking back in the 70s, so I might have the details off here or there). Harris, one of the detectives in the squad room, was a budding writer.

[As an aside, Barney Miller is a classic sitcom with extremely well-developed characters itself. That Harris was a writer trying to get a screenplay accepted by Hollywood producers was already well-established, along with many other elements of his character. All the squad room members were fully-realized individuals.]

At the end of the episode, the squad is watching the finished product. Of course, we don't see the movie -- the comedy is from the reactions of the characters watching it. And clearly the porno is an opus involving characters with real depth trying to make it in a world blah blah blah. As the movie progresses, the rest of the squad starts asking, with growing frustration, "Where's the sex?!"

There is a satisfying sex scene at the end of the porno, and the Miller congratulates Harris on writing what was actually a great movie. Everyone who watched it is really touched by the struggles of the characters in Harris' screenplay. The sexy payoff at the end was all the more powerful for it. In short, it might have been an unconventional porno, but it was a great movie.

A great movie which is immediately destroyed when the NYPD realizes just what a dumb idea this was and how much trouble they'd get into if anyone found out they paid to make a dirty movie.

[The payoff gag of the episode is Harris sadly taking up the film reel to be incinerated at the waste facility. He wants to do it himself, and the squad lets him do it. As he is leaving with the reel, looking despondent, another squad member, Wojo if I recall correctly, goes to him. Harris expects some words of solace, but Wojo winks and tells Harris that when he stops to get a copy made before destroying the original, to make a copy for him as well. Harris is now grinning as he exits the squad room.]

Anyway, I always think about that episode when considering how well, or how badly, VNs here are plotted. Harris might have gone too far on the plot side (for comedic effect, of course, and because it was consistent with his character), but the audience enjoys what they watched, even if it wasn't what they expected. Something to think about.

 

[arcaos]

In spite of all the lies circulating around about how you're a jerk if you imply that people are milking or whatever, the rise of Patreon has necessitated that you either plan to extend a game's development forever or have future game projects you're planning to start, or risk losing out on your source of funding. So, the initial assumption in playing any Patreon game is that it's going to be in perpetual development unless you know for a fact that the dev has a history of actually completing games.

What that tends to mean pretty often, unfortunately, is that the sex gets put off forever, at least with the main girl. I don't think that that's a remotely necessary implication, but a dev who can't imagine there being any purpose for a main character in a porn game beyond boning is likely to think in those terms. If the goal in a porn game is to creampie Mary, for example, then to keep development going forever you need to put off creampieing Mary until nearly the end of the game, so you never jizz in Mary's pussy until the dev has exhausted him/herself. This also has the unfortunate consequence that, especially if development has gone on for a long time (see the works of MrDots, for example), it can be tens of hours of clicking through VN dialogue to actually get to the P in V sex scenes with the main object of lust.

Thankfully, there's a solution: have a bigger story than just getting in a lady's pussy. I've come and gone a few times on Summertime Saga, for example, but that game does at least have a more overarching story than just 'bang your mom to win!' You have to find out what happened to your dad, pay off the house, and find a date to the high school prom *cough cough* sorry, college dance. It's pretty humdrum as narrative goals go, but it's enough to allow DarkCookie to structure an actual game where boning ladies can help lead to the conclusion of the story without the boning actually being the point of the story itself (even if it's obviously the point of the game), and can even provide enough flexibility to add more ladies and more sub-stories with their own rises and falls and conclusions that don't themselves completely end the game.

This doesn't and shouldn't mean that every sex sub-story should immediately resolve itself into creampies with whatever side character. But it does mean that pacing and enjoyment should lead sex stories, not just putting off ending a game. If that's why you blue-ball players for years, then it sounds like you didn't design your game well.

Note: there's nothing wrong with intentionally blueballing your players if that's the fetish you're going for, but I think that's a whole different discussion.

I think you're broadly correct, but I think what's fatiguing a lot of players is games that do actually have a starting premise/thread but start to completely lose the original thread because the dev is just adding new plotlines to keep the game going. Sometimes this is because they add so many girls that the relationship stakes become meaningless, other times dev creates a type of escalation creep where the original plot and scope doesn't make sense.

To take your example of DarkCookie, while the overarching thread of the missing dad has been there the whole time, the game has started to get overstuffed with celebrity references and odd fantasy beats. And I don't even mind that specific example because the whole game is very exaggerated and campy, but I think it demonstrates how games can get sidetracked because they're in development forever.

A common thread in fantasy games is some vague, unknowable evil that allows there to be a vague plot that justifies a new girl of the week. It's technically a plot, but the experience for players is very tiring because it feels like you're treading water the entire time. Characters you enjoy end up fading into the background because their arc ended 10 updates ago, new characters come in to fill the void but they feel hollow unless they somehow shake up the plot. And to some, the game ends up feeling tired.

 

[Deleted member 2808899]

Sometimes this is because they add so many girls that the relationship stakes become meaningless, other times dev creates a type of escalation creep where the original plot and scope doesn't make sense.

Harem games can't quickly spiral out of control this way -- though maybe they're supposed to and I just don't appreciate it as much as others do. But when the plot devolves into a sex grind, I find myself skipping the sex scenes. How sad is that? But yeah, they get boring really quick when they happen too early in the plot and just get repeated over and over.

And who in their right mind is deliberately pursuing a half-dozen or more relationships? Dealing with one woman in your life is exhausting enough.

My plot would be more farce-like. The main character has his partner, and is devoted to her. But then things get weird, and through a combination of bad choices (foisted on the player by me by ensuring all the choices lead to some sort of farce) and the machinations of other characters with their own motivations, the main character is swamped by sexy situations (which may or may not involve actual sex -- doesn't have to every time). Each thread of the farce resolves in ways influenced by the main character's decisions and the goals of the secondary characters.

At its core, the main character is a normal guy that has become a victim of ridiculously sexy circumstances. I think that helps keep the player grounded (easier to relate to the normalcy of the MC, instead of trying to play a psychopathic MC who is essentially a serial rapist). But as a writer, I have to explain why each character is there, and how their individual motivations are drawing them into the main character's orbit.

It's a heck of a lot easier to throw nymphomaniacs at the main character, but a lot less satisfying for the reader.

 

[kristijanEX]

It's amazing to me how many people treat the games on these sites as non-porn, I don't. But then again, I understand not wanting to immediately be bombarded with cheap sex scenes at the start of the game, but the best games on these site don't give you blue balls either and I'm talking from both an objective and subjective standpoint, as in the games that are popular overall and games that I like with some overlap between the two.

That being said, I agree with the OP that some games really take it too far, a handjob in 6 hours of gameplay and the game is dead to me, if I was giving out 1 star reviews, those games would get it for sure. And some people defend this, even if you're on the "these games are more than just porn" arc, you gotta agree getting basically nothing in 6 hours of reading is WAY TOO MUCH.

But I do disagree with the OP, the devs aren't being greedy and they don't have ulterior motives for the most part. The devs that get closest to these line are sandbox devs that make getting the sex scenes incredibly grindy to pad game length.

 

[clitacafro]

It depends. If you mean "Wait X minutes/hours/days or BUY PREMIUM CURRENCY" then yes. If you mean "Do the same thing for 10 more ingame days" then yes.

Otherwise no.

Waiting for the sake of capitalizing on it sucks in every game, waiting for a good reason and without being repetitive can be nice.

Oh and not being repetitive I also don't mean listen to the same thing one has heard a million times in other games.

 

[pastiche]

Slow is fine, monotonous isn't. Much of the issue comes from Patreon or working in a studio where you're expected to crank out 20+ hours out of CG set comprising ten scenes. Even when knowing your time is being wasted on part of the author meeting arbitrary benchmarks, I still find it hard to say hobbyists have an edge over them probably because they have more excuses to run off of. It's easier to opt out or halfass something when you can tell yourself that you do it fun, your game is 2 hours long but took you 5 years to complete, and any bugs left in are just happy accidents.

It's really hard to pin what exactly makes a long work engaging, Umineko is an impossibly long VN but it's good the entire way through, while Kanon isn't even half the length and feels like it drones on for an eternity. Part of it is likely that writers/artists who can't make a living off their passion projects for whatever reason resort to smut to make a living off their skillset, or hustling people on Patreon.

 

[Canto Forte]

There are phenomenal tv series that have sex and have action and have a lot.
Take true detective and game of thrones .. every second to third episode you have a bang,
if not every episode, with characters you follow and see them make a couple a choices.

Monthly was the golden standard of Tv, patreon and subscribestar have taken that standard.
Getting TV moguld who release whole series at once threw a wrench in it all,
but they stuck to a schedule and were not afraid to throw in new characters for the bang,
while catering to the slow grind in other characters.

Gaming is not watching a movie, so MC needs to have the action,
otherwise we are essentially watching a porn production with no porn,
at which point makes the whole endeavor meaningless,
as anyone can spend a few bucks to buy any season of GOT/TD and get better action,
better plot and way more satisfying sex scenes than some poor effort in Daz or Blender.

You mean gradually building sexual tension and believable charterers? I kinda like it actually.

The payoff from a slow build is more appealing to me than just opening up a game and falling into the first vagina I come across.

But different strokes for different folks of course, variety is good.

If I wanted porn i'd watch porn.

I'm here for adult stories with decent characters and a setting I find enjoyable.

One of the side effects of moving too quickly is where to go next. If the MC and a potential love/sex interest are banging away 10 minutes into the game, what do you do 15 minutes into the game? And then 20 minutes? Introduce a new character to repeat the same fast resolution? And then another? Harem-style games can turn into this. When I reach the point that I'm skipping sex scenes because there is no interest in seeing the payoff (or of seeing the same payoff repeated ad nauseum), then I know the game has hit a plot loop that it is unlikely to break out of.

My attitude is that the VN (assuming we're talking about VNs here) has to enjoyable without pictures. Better with pictures, sure. But if you can read it and know what happens, understand the differences in the characters in the way they talk, and care about what they're going to say or do next, then you've got something special. In fact, I've written about how the focus on the visuals actually reduces enjoyment for me for many games -- the visuals either get in the way of seeing the text, or the visuals are an attempt to compensate for bad text.

Judging from the quality of plots offered up these days by major studios (yeah, I'm looking at you, JJ Abrams and Bad Robot), writing good plots with believable characters is hard. Maybe we should be more forgiving of badly paced or plotted VNs here -- so many bad examples out there raking in millions from undiscriminating audiences.

For that to work, you need a well-rounded cast of characters with goals and motivations that go beyond mere physical gratification. In other words, good writing. I'm going to be revealing my age a bit here, but there was a great episode of Barney Miller in which the character of Detective Harris is tapped by the NYPD to write a porno. Wait, what? It was a goofy premise that the NYPD wanted to infiltrate the sex trade, and so wanted to commission a porn movie as part of the effort (something like that -- we're talking back in the 70s, so I might have the details off here or there). Harris, one of the detectives in the squad room, was a budding writer.

[As an aside, Barney Miller is a classic sitcom with extremely well-developed characters itself. That Harris was a writer trying to get a screenplay accepted by Hollywood producers was already well-established, along with many other elements of his character. All the squad room members were fully-realized individuals.]

At the end of the episode, the squad is watching the finished product. Of course, we don't see the movie -- the comedy is from the reactions of the characters watching it. And clearly the porno is an opus involving characters with real depth trying to make it in a world blah blah blah. As the movie progresses, the rest of the squad starts asking, with growing frustration, "Where's the sex?!"

There is a satisfying sex scene at the end of the porno, and the Miller congratulates Harris on writing what was actually a great movie. Everyone who watched it is really touched by the struggles of the characters in Harris' screenplay. The sexy payoff at the end was all the more powerful for it. In short, it might have been an unconventional porno, but it was a great movie.

A great movie which is immediately destroyed when the NYPD realizes just what a dumb idea this was and how much trouble they'd get into if anyone found out they paid to make a dirty movie.

[The payoff gag of the episode is Harris sadly taking up the film reel to be incinerated at the waste facility. He wants to do it himself, and the squad lets him do it. As he is leaving with the reel, looking despondent, another squad member, Wojo if I recall correctly, goes to him. Harris expects some words of solace, but Wojo winks and tells Harris that when he stops to get a copy made before destroying the original, to make a copy for him as well. Harris is now grinning as he exits the squad room.]

Anyway, I always think about that episode when considering how well, or how badly, VNs here are plotted. Harris might have gone too far on the plot side (for comedic effect, of course, and because it was consistent with his character), but the audience enjoys what they watched, even if it wasn't what they expected. Something to think about.

 

[Cainhurst]

A slow pace is not a bad thing. A poorly told story and poor mechanics (sandbox grinds, terrible mini games, specific time events) along with inconsistent releases can make the slow pace horrible.

As long as the payoff is good and the characters are well developed It is fine.

 

[PTSdev]

Depends on your definition of slow. I do enjoy romps from time to time, but generally, I prefer games with some kind of natural build-up, especially if there's a realistic setting. If there some supernatural shit going on, I'm fine with a quick pace, but in a realistic environment I don't want to have a harem after one hour of gameplay.

I do dislike that most Harem games turn into non-stop sex scenes after a while. I know, it's the point of these games, but relationships don't end with sex. Make sex matter.

 

[GreenGobbo]

Wonder how all those "stop playing games and go watch a porno" folks would react if we all started telling them to go read a romance novel everytime they bitch about too much porn in a game from a pirate porngame site.

I mean.. really? You go to the ocean and bitch about there being too much water too?



Moving on though; IMO it's more about setting and pace for each individual scene. Sure you can go an update or two without anything happening, so long as the scenes, situations, and story don't make sense for it... but don't waste the audience's time. If you're putting out games for a porn game site therr needs to be porn in the game. It doesn't need to be excessive, it doesn't have to be every 5 or 10 minutes, but keep on mind the audience this site caters too. Want to earn those patreon points? Then you have to cater to your target demographic.

 

[TheRealJasonStaham]

Going straight to the sex can be bad though, you need good pacing in any game

 

[oppaifiend]

Wonder how all those "stop playing games and go watch a porno" folks would react if we all started telling them to go read a romance novel everytime they bitch about too much porn in a game from a pirate porngame site.

It really is weird, isn't it. I feel the best approach is when the game has a sort of mini-wiki ingame, with character cards for those who want additional info on the girls. But if it's long dialogue dumps I usually skip them (sorry devs) until a dialogue choice pops up. I can't get invested in one single game so much that I need to know the backstory of every single girl. I usually play 3-4 games in parallel, and yes, the best art style/animation/preferred fetish wins.

One approach that I like a lot is "Zombie's Retreat" where you build a little base, craft some tools, and have to rescue girls from outside and bring them into your base. Then you can develop the relationship based on interaction. But it's all gameplay, no VN-style dialogue. The game itself is also decent fun, even if you took the sex scenes out. It's a game.

In general, those games where you can free roam and the days have morning/afternoon/evening are the most fun for me. It gives you a selection of girls and you can allocate your time and structure your ingame day depending on what storyline you wish to advance.