VN Ren'Py Artemis [v0.6.1b] [digi.B]

[cayseron]

There's been so much discussion over time if this was covered my brain surely glossed over it, but I'm doing a fresh replay, and I got to wondering as I looked at the lab and such when Kindra is showing the MC around, and there are the 4 tubes in the lab (of which Artemis uses one), and he asks about the others.

What I wonder is if those others were perhaps used in the past for Iniyah and Gemma. They don't seem to be as advanced mentally as Artemis, but she's had the benefit of the MC's reworked and improved Koko upgrades. They (Gemma/Iniyah) also appear to have fully completed bodies, which could easily explain why they weren't being stored in the main lab.

Thoughts, or something obvious I missed that makes me look like a bigger idiot than usual?

i just went back to reread the fencing scene and honestly it could go both ways.
initially i was convinced they cant be ai like artemis. For insance their jaws were fully functional and impossible to differentiate from a real person. That initially is not a strong proof for anything but the fact artemis that we know was the one kindra says her parents worked on for years is the one with unfinished jaw. remember, she says to MC how at first she thought her parents are building her a new sister so to me it makes no sense for kindras parents to work so much on artemis and keep kindra somewhat in the loop while also working on others in secret.
Now i know, kindra could easily be in the loop about the other two (or at least about what is in the other tubes) and simply not bother mentioning it to mc for whatever reason so posibility is still there, but one solid argument against it for me is as i said the jaw. Why would they do the proper jaw to others but not to artemis who seemed to be their main focus. Or is it that artemis was just a side gig while other two where their main focus and its matter of kindras perspective that she believes artemis was their life work?

Anyway, another solid proof against the theory of gemma and iniyah being like artemis is the fact when one of them fell on the ground during fencing she grunted. Ofc this is something that could be thought so its just another weak argument but it is still one more added to the list.

And to be honest, i would not give the other possibilty much thought if not for one fact. After she is done talking on the phone with kindra, kandice says "the fencing program is proving succesfull" and that line alone makes me think you might be right.
When i was just reading it for what it is, i simply assumed "fencing program" meant that girls respond well to training. (like how we say "12-step program for getting sober rather than computer program or app)
but now that i was looking for anything that would give away or hint at posibility of girls being like artemis that line felt different

EDIT: fun fact, i think google just flagged me as alcoholic for googling sobriety program to get the proper term (i knew its a program, i just forgot its called 12-step program so i googled it to make sure i got the facts right)
my ads look different now so theres that i guess

 

[cayseron]

actually i have new theory about gemma and iniyah. what if they are not AI but VI and "fencing program" is what kandice sees in virtual reality (same as chess after blackout scene), and reason why she is interested in kindra and koko is because that would be the bridge between her VI and real world?

 

[Capt_Kirk]

actually i have new theory about gemma and iniyah. what if they are not AI but VI and "fencing program" is what kandice sees in virtual reality (same as chess after blackout scene), and reason why she is interested in kindra and koko is because that would be the bridge between her VI and real world?

they aren't VI , one of them it's the face of a clothing line and the other has been making commercial for luxury cars and almost everyone in the city know who they are .
my theory is that Kindra's parents and Ava are alive but hiding because the military was trying to move 'em out of the way and give all their tech to twr , so twr continue making weapons for the military .
maybe that is the reason why a lot of blueprints and patents were missing and never give 'em to Kindra .

 

[cayseron]

they aren't VI , one of them it's the face of a clothing line and the other has been making commercial for luxury cars and almost everyone in the city know who they are .
my theory is that Kindra's parents and Ava are alive but hiding because the military was trying to move 'em out of the way and give all their tech to twr , so twr continue making weapons for the military .
maybe that is the reason why a lot of blueprints and patents were missing and never give 'em to Kindra .

ok but its not like VTUBERS dont exist. Hatsune Miku literally have no body and was performing live on stage in "3d" projection. Vtubers have their own merch... what i am trying to say is that your arguments dont really disprove the theory as much as you think it does. It is valid point but its not absolutely counterargumentative to what i said.

I'll give you even more far fetched theory. this is the one even i dont like. it crossed my mind but i figured "nah, it cant be that" but why not share it anyways. Maybe Gemma and Iniyah were real once and something happened to them, some uncurable disease that took their lives, or rather would take their lives if not for Kandice and some futuristic technology that transfered their conciousness into virtual world (something similar to what A.L.I.E. from the 100 planned to do) so world knows about them, know they are real, they have history and real experiences in real world but now they are stuck in virtual reality. And "happy memory" that kandice sees is the one she reciprocated with her kids in virtual world thanks to her VR. and after seeing Kindra reveal the footage of koko she hopes Kindra can help her build artifical bodies for her daughters so that they can walk in the real world once again.

This to me is kinda more far fetched than just trying to colaborate with kindra to get the mainframe for her AI's.
But there are nuggets of proof that could defend both theories.

As for the theory of your own, i dont know about kindra's parents but i do believe ava is alive and strongest hint that defend this theory is the fact nobody ever left quarters on her monument.

 

[Maccabbee]

...
SO yeah i understand where you come from, one looks empathetic and other looks more stern and direct, thats cause in order to prioritize pragmatism over empathy as a human being you would be stern and direct. lawyer, cop, etc... they take that approach but that does not mean they are just trying to dominate others. lot of lawyers genuinely do their job to protect the innocents, lot of cops work in that line of work to keep the society safe... its not that they lack empathy, they are just good at following the protocol.
...

I can't take you seriously with this stuff. This is not how the world works at all. "Cops are not trying to dominate and are working to keep society safe." This is the imaginary 1950s bullshit that some assholes want us to believe existed. It did... in FANTASYLAND.

 

[cayseron]

I can't take you seriously with this stuff. This is not how the world works at all. "Cops are not trying to dominate and are working to keep society safe." This is the imaginary 1950s bullshit that some assholes want us to believe existed. It did... in FANTASYLAND.

i mean you can project your american drama on rest of the world all you want, and i never even said that corrupt cops dont exist. while at it, i never stated that every lawyer is humanitarian either. In fact, lawyers are famous to be greedy assholes who care not for justice and only have for their pockets... but just because the bad stuff happen and exist does not change the facts that good stuff exist as well.

you are not wrong you are just focusing on negatives and letting it be the solitary focus of your POV as a tunel vision. and i am not blaming you for it, in america the cops issue is getting really out of hands...

Let me alienate the topic that is too close to heart. Sun is crucial for our survival. without sun life on earth stops existing. thats just a fact. now with your logic, because sun gives some people skin cancer and is "racist" towards gingers suddenly the previous objectively true statement is "1950s bullshit that some assholes want us to believe" and sun's importance for human existence is "fantasyland". if this is your capacity of thinking and intelligence, i dont care if you are taking me seriously or not.

 

[Maccabbee]

i mean you can project your american drama on rest of the world all you want, and i never even said that corrupt cops dont exist. while at it, i never stated that every lawyer is humanitarian either. In fact, lawyers are famous to be greedy assholes who care not for justice and only have for their pockets... but just because the bad stuff happen and exist does not change the facts that good stuff exist as well.

you are not wrong you are just focusing on negatives and letting it be the solitary focus of your POV as a tunel vision. and i am not blaming you for it, in america the cops issue is getting really out of hands...

Let me alienate the topic that is too close to heart. Sun is crucial for our survival. without sun life on earth stops existing. thats just a fact. now with your logic, because sun gives some people skin cancer and is "racist" towards gingers suddenly the previous objectively true statement is "1950s bullshit that some assholes want us to believe" and sun's importance for human existence is "fantasyland". if this is your capacity of thinking and intelligence, i dont care if you are taking me seriously or not.

You're really funny. I think it's mostly unintentional, but still. Always good for a laugh.

Other things you've said that miss the point entirely: the fencing team "girls" not being androids because they look human while Artemis didn't. Sure, except that was now, and Artemis was in storage for years. Their "mother" was a partner for Kindra's parents, and might well have them as prototypes and continued developing them. Or not. They could be daughters. We don't know yet, but I lean towards them being advanced androids, myself.

The thing that Artemis brings to the table is the code that started in Koko, which seems to add realistic personality and self-programming algorithms. Artemis has personality. Gemma and Inaya had intelligence, but didn't show much personality. Some people are colder, though, so it doesn't prove anything.

 

[cayseron]

You're really funny. I think it's mostly unintentional, but still. Always good for a laugh.

Other things you've said that miss the point entirely: the fencing team "girls" not being androids because they look human while Artemis didn't. Sure, except that was now, and Artemis was in storage for years. Their "mother" was a partner for Kindra's parents, and might well have them as prototypes and continued developing them. Or not. They could be daughters. We don't know yet, but I lean towards them being advanced androids, myself.

The thing that Artemis brings to the table is the code that started in Koko, which seems to add realistic personality and self-programming algorithms. Artemis has personality. Gemma and Inaya had intelligence, but didn't show much personality. Some people are colder, though, so it doesn't prove anything.

you realized how wrong you were so you trying to deflect by pointing out at unrelated stuff? fair enough, lets tackle this again

the Gemma/Iniyah post is just a speculation, a theory. we call them that because of lack of foundation and solid proof for them.
Whether gemma and iniyah are android or real people is educated guess at best right now. some guesses make more logic than other but they all have some level of legitimacy.
however, when you say sun is essential for human lives and humans cant exist without a sun even if it is harmful to some and/or to some extent that is not a theory or speculation that is proven and undisputed fact. you cant compare the two.

To go back to cop thing. i never said all cops are good, i never said all cops are fair. i did not even make exaggerated claim that most of them are good. I simply stated the fact that cops role in society is to protect and serve by following the law and LOT (not all, not most, LOT) of people legit become cops to protect innocent people. and that is undisputed fact too. I am not denying your feelings and opinion, i am not saying your problems dont exist. corruption in police inside USA is real threat and real problem, i am not saying you are wrong to feel certain way about cops. My statement that lot of people became cops to protect innocent and your opinion that cops are racist and powerhungry narcisists can and do coexist. But your level of extremism and coping mechanism showcased in your original reply is solid proof that you are the laughing stock in this conversation. i wouldnt go as far as to call it undisputed fact, but i am comfortable about it

 

[pitao]

You're really funny. I think it's mostly unintentional, but still. Always good for a laugh.

I don't think is funny at all and I agree with most points of view of cayseron, for most of the rest of world that is just common sense and you simply are projecting your own reality. Not saying that here in Portugal/Europe there isn't issues because there is and you are just twisting their words and being disrespectful by saying its funny or good for a laugh maybe because you just don't have a good and valid argument against it.

This is what I mean, they had to explain what they meant and seemed clear to me the first time, unnecessary if you didn't deflect with accessory. It is just common sense. I like you Maccabbee and agree with many things you say (many times not the way you say it, seems too extreme for me) but not this time.

I simply stated the fact that cops role in society is to protect and serve by following the law and LOT (not all, not most, LOT) of people legit become cops to protect innocent people.