"Bad" Games

[Insomnimaniac Games]

I kinda feel wrong saying this, but I think I prefer Koikatsu models over Daz

Nah, I agree. Though, good 2D is king.

 

[suprisedcrankyface]

good 2D is king.

Yup!

 

[anne O'nymous]

On the very same page of "Stand out" in the cambridge dictionary page you linked:
"To be much better than other similar things or people."

What is still not the definition of unique...

 

[anne O'nymous]

If you read 'on writing' by Stephen king he also explains his writing technique involved doing so much coke that he was typing with tissues jammed up his nose to stop the nosebleeds getting on the paper.

What doesn't prevent him to be a good writer who have often no clue about what will come next, even more in the next book.

To use your earlier example of apocalypse now - watch a documentary on the making off and you will see that everyone hated being involved, the process sucked, and they got lucky to get a movie out of it.

I know, and Marlon Brando came not even knowing what it was about, totally improvising what became one of the most iconic scene; yet the result is marvelous. You also named George Lucas, so I guess you know that the first Star Wars was a horror before his then wife jumped in and edited it differently, making it a world changer.
Two proof that, "being good writer", especially when translated in, "planing more or less precisely your game", isn't the criteria you're searching. One should to be a good writer and to plan enough his game, but it's not what make a good game.

I don't think it separates 'good and bad' writers, the point I was trying to make was because of a hierarchy

I know, but the hierarchy is relatively (because there's always exceptions) valid. At least the instant you understand that a game is the result of a combination of capabilities, and that its value come from their average.

A well wrote story (in terms of dialog and possible narration) can make you forget about the few inconstancy due to the lack of planing; even world renowned writers sometimes open doors that they never close. A strongly planed game can have such perfection in the way it care about the details, that you'll forget its average writing (still in terms of...). And, something that we can, alas, witness a bit too often here, good visuals can make forget a bad writing. This being to name only the three most important parts.
The game will be bad if we focus on one of those points, because its flaws will then be obvious. But if we take it as a whole, it will stand out of the mass as a pleasant game. And it's precisely the definition of a good game since if, at that time, we wanted a challenge or strong game play, we would be playing a none adult game.
It's entertainment, therefore if the game is pleasantly entertaining, then it's a good one; a great one if it's even more than entertaining. But obviously, like we all are human beings, and therefore all have different taste, what will entertain you isn't necessarily what will entertain me. Yet, if you (the player, not you particularly) are honest and can depart from your own taste, it's totally possible to recognize that a game is good, just "not for you".

And I was saying a good writer can impact the development of a game & shouldn't be at the bottom, because writing is what separates a game from a visual artist (and underpins a good game).

Yet it's, sadly, what happen, because it's what you'll notice last. Perhaps not you particularly, once again we are all different and some can focus more on this or that, but it's what the majority notice last, if even it notice it.
WVM by example, is below the average in everything. Yet it needed for its author to goes fully crazy before people starts to notice how bad the game is. There's still many people who think that Milfy City is one of the best game ever, even with ICSTOR milking. BaDIK is still seen by the majority as a great game. And so on, the number of badly wrote games that are praised as being good is way too high to list them all.
And at the opposite you've games really well wrote that can't find their public, like Intoxicating Favor to name only one, because it doesn't have enough entertainment value for the majority, and a story more complex than it seem. Or games well wrote and clearly planed, like Jason, coming of Age, once again to only name one, but where the order of the scenes isn't right, making it missing of entertainment value during it's (a bit too long) introduction.

Story boarding was an example (of that impact) I used but think we got a little fixated on it

It's possible. As you probably can see, I don't really disagree with you regarding each point, it's more the conclusion you draw that I don't agree with, drawing myself another conclusion; and being human, I do believe that I'm the one who's right

 

[suprisedcrankyface]

It's possible. As you probably can see, I don't really disagree with you regarding each point, it's more the conclusion you draw that I don't agree with, drawing myself another conclusion; and being human, I do believe that I'm the one who's right

I was about to start going point by point again but we do agree more than disagree.

Rather than going point by point again I will just say you seem well read and have thought about these things. We may have drawn different conclusions but arguing those conclusions seems stupid when we both are just arguing to which degree we agree with each other.

My point was writing is often undersold, when it should stand on an equal footing and a master can really use it to shine (like every other tool like animations, graphics, 2d drawing).

Think you make solid points, think I made mine.

 

[tanstaafl]

A good writer can storyboard out their story, which in turn streamlines what you needed to draw/animate as you have it all sorted. Dune 2 cost as much as SW acolyte to make, but one wrote it clearly and knew exactly what they wanted to animate etc so everything was done once and done well.

Agree, but that wasn't my point. My point was that the game and the writing are two distinct tasks and only a person learning python (if a VN) on youtube for the first time without ever looking up even the most basic of "basics of programming" would try to do them at the same time.

 

[Ying Ko]

There's a technical tag in the works, so those who hate it will soon™ be able to exclude it.

3d-daz

✨

3DCG games rendered with Daz3D

 

[GridBasedDefence]

3dcg

While they make up the vast majority, it isnt unique to them.

 

[Count Morado]

While they make up the vast majority, it isnt unique to them.

What are you talking about?
This thread is about how 3dcg games are "bad". You said you:

wish they had a unique tag so i could ignore them.

They do. 3dcg.

If you meant something else, then you need to say what you mean.

If you meant you wish there was a tag for "bad" games .... That would be a tag that is based on personal opinion and therefore undefinable and useless. You know the old saying "one person's trash is another person's treasure."

 

[Disciple of Rance]

To cut long story short, every 3D DAZ model visual novel is pretty shit in terms of animations & mediocre in terms of text.

Unless we're talking about Caribdis' VNs - they're actually pretty cool. Quality over quantity in his case.

 

[GridBasedDefence]

What are you talking about?
This thread is about how 3dcg games are "bad". You said you:

They do. 3dcg.

If you meant something else, then you need to say what you mean.

maybe i misunderstood, i thought this thread was specifically about 3d daz and similar "realistic" models being at best unnerving and at worst, just generally low quality / fugly.

as opposed to say any of the stylistic "Anime" models, both of which as tagged as 3DCG and dont have any specific means of separating them.

 

[Disciple of Rance]

maybe i misunderstood, i thought this thread was specifically about 3d daz and similar "realistic" models being at best unnerving and at worst, just generally low quality / fugly.

as opposed to say any of the stylistic "Anime" models, both of which as tagged as 3DCG and dont have any specific means of separating them.

Hence why we're still waiting for mods to add a DAZ tag so we can skip all that.

 

[nulnil]

replies across multiple pages = not responding

Doubling, tripling, and quadrupling down on the strawman you made. Good job!

But as I said,

I think morphnet has dementia, he can't seem to remember that I already replied to that.

What is still not the definition of unique...

"Something special, something unusual."
Your words, not mine.

 

[morphnet]

I think morphnet has dementia, he can't seem to remember that I already replied to that.

and there you are claiming you didn't respond...

and you aren't responding

and you aren't responding

Also still trying to side-track by attacking the person and not discussing the point

Doubling, tripling, and quadrupling down on the strawman you made. Good job!

You know, if you don't want to have an adult conversation you can just say so, there's really no need to act like we're on a playground



That said and as promised, if you decide to act like an adult and discuss the points, here is where it left off...

 

[anne O'nymous]

"Something special, something unusual."
Your words, not mine.

What is still not equal to your "to be much better than other similar things or people."


This is a

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, yet not a much better one than the other forks.

 

[nulnil]

What is still not equal to your "to be much better than other similar things or people."

You're so close with that quote! Just four words backwards, there is a link containing the definition of unusual, from the very same dictionary.

I'll paste what it's defined as though.
"different from others of the same type in a way that is surprising, interesting, or attractive: "

and there you are claiming you didn't respond...

You pretty much dismissed everything I said, then demanded I respond to your strawman as if it's what I said.

Since you like to repeat yourself, here's a funny little example of argument by repitition;

Spoiler

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And before you try saying otherwise, the fallacy is on you because you are the one who got off-track. You were given a chance to continue attack the points made by me, but instead you chose to start repeating yourself because you have absolutely zero points. Grow up and admit you were defeated here.

 

[morphnet]

Grow up and admit you were defeated here.

This sums your attitude up perfectly, I do believe YOU "think" you can "defeat" others here with your opinion. That you can't see how absurd that is speaks volumes about you.

The original reply to your OPINION was "oh look, different people like different things"

Multiple people, including myself have tried to explain it to you as you have insulted, twisted and flip flopped your way around each of your replies. YOU are the only one "trying" to defeat others with your opinion and YOU are the one who has tried to side track the discussion so much that YOU forgot the original point.

So as I said, when you grow up and decide to continue or have a discussion, this is where it left off....



and I can add the rest if you still don't remember....

 

[anne O'nymous]

You're so close with that quote! Just four words backwards, there is a link containing the definition of unusual, from the very same dictionary.

I'll paste what it's defined as though.
"different from others of the same type in a way that is surprising, interesting, or attractive: "

What still does not make "stand out" and "unique" be synonyms...

But at least it explain a lot of things.