Ren'Py Bad Memories [v0.9.5.2] [recreation]

[Ricey66]

I find it very funny how you react, bro.
I made 1 (ONE) single statement about a potential release date and had to move that, and here you go talking like I moved the relase 20 times, maybe you want to get your facts straight before posting such bullshit, because that IS toxic.

Im going to throw my two cents in here. I love this game, the writing and the artistry are outstanding. This is the perfect example of why quality is more important that quantity and speed. Anyone who enjoys this game/VN would rather you maintain the standards you have set out so far, rather than release a reduced quality product whilst meeting an arbitrary release date. This is your product, your passion, everyone else here is just along to share the ride with you.

 

[Mathesar]

I mean there are one man devs which has very little support who does way more frequent updates than 5-6 months updates to yearly updates so 'do you know how much time to do 1 render' is kinda comedical. Yeah this is a really good game but 10 month update is on the extreme side of things if the update isn't huge like shit tons of renders and multiple hours of gameplay. It's just being lazy tbh. Ofc this is about active development on the game not if some shit happens and development stopped. Which could've happened for this game so if some shit happened, it's normal for dev to delay for how much he wants

If you read the last couple pages of the thread you'd know that the dev's GPU died and it took a few months for them to get a new one with the shortage.

 

[Ninja of Death]

TBH I was pissed, but obviously serious family problems, illness, computer issues are a valid reason for delayed releases.

 

[HornyyPussy]

BUT what if the only key that worked on your keyboard was 2 and the choices were vote or be forced to watch the Spice Girls movie on repeat for a whole week.

Would you risk that torture not to vote huh? huh? HUH?

What's wrong wit the Spice Girls?????

I mean there are one man devs which has very little support who does way more frequent updates than 5-6 months updates to yearly updates so 'do you know how much time to do 1 render' is kinda comedical. Yeah this is a really good game but 10 month update is on the extreme side of things if the update isn't huge like shit tons of renders and multiple hours of gameplay. It's just being lazy tbh. Ofc this is about active development on the game not if some shit happens and development stopped. Which could've happened for this game so if some shit happened, it's normal for dev to delay for how much he wants

How long other Devs take to update is 100% irrelevant since they all work under different conditions. A dev that are single and can work full time on a game will naturally release faster updates than someone who has a regular job and family and only work on the game when they can.

Comparing development times between Dev's just....well, silly really.

And complaining about development time on a site for pirating said games is just......sad

 

[Carpe Stultus]

I mean there are one man devs which has very little support who does way more frequent updates than 5-6 months updates to yearly updates so 'do you know how much time to do 1 render' is kinda comedical. Yeah this is a really good game but 10 month update is on the extreme side of things if the update isn't huge like shit tons of renders and multiple hours of gameplay. It's just being lazy tbh. Ofc this is about active development on the game not if some shit happens and development stopped. Which could've happened for this game so if some shit happened, it's normal for dev to delay for how much he wants

Do you know what that shows? That you don't see the difference in quality in renders and that you have no fucking idea about rendering in general because if you did you wouldn't type this bullshit, especially not after one of his gpu's went up in smoke earlier this year and he needed months to replace it. Yeah having a second gpu, especially the one he has now speeds up things by a lot. Who would've thought?

Not to mention that recreation doesn't take 10 months for a update since he also has another game that gets updates after a BM update is done and yeah yeah we all know that people are unhappy that he has a second game to stay sane, just deal with it and play something else in the meantime.

 

[Shark_inA-chiar]

The game is free here so i dont now why all the fucking whining and if you paying on patreon then stop!! but i guess i underestimate the need for internet validation

 

[MrLKX]

The game is free here so i dont now why all the fucking whining and if you paying on patreon then stop!! but i guess i underestimate the need for internet validation

Compensate. Much to compensate. Individually it may be different what to compensate, so I leave it to the individual imagination.

 

[mordred93]

I'm probably making a very big mistake now, but I think women sound awful with a (BBC) English accent. I like to listen to female Irish and Scots, unfortunately I have never heard Welsh accents.

With short skirts, however, I would probably overlook any accent in general.

Please send me an MP3 file Avaron1974.

Pass it my way as well .. I'd love to put a voice to a .. errr .. name

 

[Jaike]

Lately I have noticed more and more that the tone towards the developers here in the forum has become much more aggressive regarding release dates or the lack of those. I can of course understand why you would prefer to have an update today rather than tomorrow, but honestly, apart from unnecessary stress and anger for the developers, what has that ever done? I can now understand very well why many developers avoid this forum like the plague.

Doesnt help the developers but it does help players. Most of the people I support, I have found through forums and my decision to support is influenced by consistency of updates, quality of the game and what I read in the threads. Complaints are a red flag if you are considering becoming a patreon. Personally I find the complaints valuable.

> I can now understand very well why many developers avoid this forum like the plague

I would honestly argue that it is more productive for devs to reduce interaction on the forums. In addition to the complaints which as you pointed out causes anger/stress, I feel like for this game in particular some of the recent hate is self inflicted due to setting incorrect expectations. Based on my interactions with the dev on discord and from reading this thread I see the a recurring pattern: dev gives an estimate -> things change and it becomes harder to meet said estimate -> dev starts crunching hard to meet deadline -> stress -> dev does not end up meeting the deadline -> angry comments -> more stress -> dev gives new estimate ... and so on.

[snip]
I think it is a lot better to just avoid estimates all together - it will save the dev some stress imo. If people ask about the rate of updates just you dont know - if you can get it out quick thats a pleasant surprise. If not, you have set the correct expectations and nobody has a valid reason to complain.

I guess estimates for release dates are a catch-22 for devs. Provide estimates for updates and the entitlement cycle pops up whenever there's a delay, don't give any and you get even more of the "when next updaet?", "gaem has abandoned?", "y no abandoned tag" spamfest.

It's typical though that when Recreation stated why the delay occurred, in themselves perfectly understandable reasons/causes, it soon enough got spun into "excuses". The critics' comparisons to other, usually unnamed, devs are moronic, how many of them achieve a similar quality in renders, let alone in animations?

But a lot of people may not be ok with this since it is actual money we are talking about.

Sure thing, it is actual money, but it is very easy to stop supporting someone. Nobody is paying for an actual finished product yet, so it's on the patrons themselves to be realistic when they put money in the tip jar.

 

[K.T.L.]

You're going a bit off topic here. Please keep your opinions (and that's all they are as you cannot provide any facts to support your statement) to whatever Anti Vax/Anti Lockdown conspiracy threads you normally subscribe to.

There's always one.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

I like the game. I like the graphics and characters.
If it gets updated, great. If not come back later in a few months. If development stops all together, move on.

 

[BamID]

I like the game. I like the graphics and characters.
If it gets updated, great. If not come back later in a few months. If development stops all together, move on.

That's the thing to do!


sadly.. people think they can demand anything they want..
even people that "support" a dev think they are paying for a product they can demand anytime to be done.. which isn't the case.. but well.. try to reason with idiots ^^"

I'd wait another 6 months if it's needed... he's very active on discord and we get updates and teases so it's okay.. ^^

 

[Jaike]

Are people really going to listen? And is it realistic for the dev to provide proof in the case of a delay? (look at devs like icstor etc who clearly milk their patreons - they also keep giving 'perfectly valid reasons' - I am not saying I want proof for this game I believe the dev but hopefully you get my point). The dev has given his reasoning in this thread and you can see for yourself how well that has gone. If you are bad at estimates, my opinion is that it is better to not engage when it comes to providing deadlines. Underpromise and overdeliver. The dev can still interact with the community without providing estimates - I think it will save them a lot of unnecessary stress.

That's a reasonable take. To be fair, not giving definite dates for next update seems what the dev usually does. But I suppose that anything definite enough will get quoted back at you by angry people. And not giving estimates will lead to the topic getting inundated with "next update when?", the other horn of the catch-22.

That said, I don't get anybody (obviously not you) who keeps hectoring about the timing of the next update. What is their concern? Do they fear it will never be released or anything?

Just in general, comparisons to ICSTOR tend to be more miss than hit though. He seems to earn enough that he could snort cocaine off a whore's body twice a day.

> Sure thing, it is actual money, but it is very easy to stop supporting someone. Nobody is paying for an actual finished product yet, so it's on the patrons themselves to be realistic when they put money in the tip jar.

As someone who has been burnt several times due to creators abandoning their games I disagree with this. Here is how it usually goes with a lot of projects - game looks promising and the updates start. In the beginning the updates are consistent and of high quality. As time passes they get slower and slower until the game is finally abandoned.

At some point in this time you realize that you are wasting your money and you stop pledging. However what about the money that has already been pledged when the dev was uploading regularly? That has already been lost. I support creators so I can help fund the completion of the project I like. I do not care for partially completed/abandoned games. And nobody knows what the future entails - I dont have a magic crystal ball that can tell me in 1 year, this dev is going to stop updating regularly and the game is going to be abandoned. If the dev makes consistent 1/2 month updates for 1 year then starts slacking off, sure I can cut my funding after a year but I have still thrown away $120 assuming I was a $10/month patreon.

Of course this would be solved if nobody supported devs ever but I think it is fair to say most game devs here would not develop their games if they were making $0.

Not to be mean, but I think that is still an unfortunate mindset when you give money to strangers without any guarantee for an end product. Treat it like a tip jar or giving money to charity, homeless people and such, and only give what you'll never regret giving. Of course, burning $120 is never fun, but I think it's on the patrons to limit their donations to what they'll never regret.

 

[MrLKX]

I think the healthiest attitude is to see the Patreon money (due to my slight tax background, I can't in good conscience call it a donation or tip) as an appreciation of the developer's previous work. And I'm with you on never giving fixed deadlines or anything close to that ("My goal is end of xyz month"). Either way there will be nagging or complaining from those who don't like the fact that the fetish Abc is not served. But it's not the dev's job to make everyone happy, apart from that it's possible - if only because some people are only happy when they can complain.

 

[Rintal]

If you are bad at estimates, my opinion is that it is better to not engage when it comes to providing deadlines. Underpromise and overdeliver. The dev can still interact with the community without providing estimates - I think it will save them a lot of unnecessary stress.

In fact, setting deadlines is beneficial for the developer himself. Not in terms of public image, but in terms of self-control. If you are doing any kind of work, you must set the boundaries of your competence. Exclusively for the development of self-discipline. As you said, it's stressful and without setting any limits for yourself, you can just hide from the problems. But in the long run, it doesn't do anything good for your success. It is a fundamental necessity to overcome difficulties if you want to develop yourself. Otherwise, you will stagnate and risk falling into procrastination. The sad truth of life.

And as for all this grumbling and crying, I sincerely believe that, in the paradigm in which we are now, the developer has no obligations either to ordinary players or to patrons. There are pros and cons to this position, but that's another story.

 

[Master of Puppets]

In fact, setting deadlines is beneficial for the developer himself. Not in terms of public image, but in terms of self-control. If you are doing any kind of work, you must set the boundaries of your competence. Exclusively for the development of self-discipline. As you said, it's stressful and without setting any limits for yourself, you can just hide from the problems. But in the long run, it doesn't do anything good for your success. It is a fundamental necessity to overcome difficulties if you want to develop yourself. Otherwise, you will stagnate and risk falling into procrastination. The sad truth of life.

And as for all this grumbling and crying, I sincerely believe that, in the paradigm in which we are now, the developer has no obligations either to ordinary players or to patrons. There are pros and cons to this position, but that's another story.

It's good to set goals for yourself if you're serious about something. Just how serious if you have a day job and are doing it as a hobby is up to you. Doesn't mean you necessarily have to share those goals, while doing so may stop you from letting them slip devs do get undeserved abuse sometimes if they miss one.

 

[AchedCroissant]

With so much shit that is being read here lately, the only thing they are going to do is that Rec does not enter here in the forum anymore and I think it will be worse for those of us who like his work

 

[Shark_inA-chiar]

With so much shit that is being read here lately, the only thing they are going to do is that Rec does not enter here in the forum anymore and I think it will be worse for those of us who like his work

Its on steam too so i can imagine that its triple the trash if he reads steam forums

 

[Qwert99]

Tbf the dev said 22nd of April that release in two months (towards the end of June then) was realistic. It's not unreasonable that some people might be a bit miffed considering we're about to hit September.

 

[Ninja of Death]

6 months is normally completely unacceptable, but when there are serious computer problems that is not at all the dev's fault. I'm hoping soon for either here or WTAGTH. Or both.