Holy Bacchus

Conversation Conqueror
Dec 13, 2018
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After the backlash that happened with Acting Lessons I'm sure he wants to try to keep from surprising people with the darkness, whatever shade it maybe, but I don't think that this will be as dark. The fact that so many people seem to be worried makes me think that perhaps they aren't in the right place to be playing the game when it does get dark.
The thing is that, as much as people who played AL disliked the way it ended, it's entirely possible that DPC was and still is happy with how it ended because it was the story they wanted to tell. If this were to be the case, then it's also possible that the criticism fell on deaf ears and we could see some more dark elements in this game and possibly some tragedy because it's what DPC wants to do and they don't care if it gets backlash.
 

Rchuck

Newbie
Jun 30, 2017
37
30
While you guys are discussing whether or not dark in the game, I just wonder if you are going to have a winter vacation. I'm imagining bella, mc, jil, derek .... Everyone in the Alps skiing, But I know that we will have a lot of good things in this summer vacation that comes around.
 

Anthony11553

Active Member
Feb 9, 2020
543
537
imo if the game gets as dark as Acting Lessons it will ruin the story for me, The dev already did that in his last game, doing it twice in a row would be kinda lazy.
 
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ename144

Engaged Member
Sep 20, 2018
3,208
13,378
Yeah, I don't understand it... People seem to think that because the developer's first game was dark that every game they make will be dark. Since DPC explicitly said this won't be then I will take him at his word that even the bad endings won't be as dark as Acting Lessons. Of course we could just wait and see.
It's not just that DPC's first game was dark, it's the manner in which it was dark that matters. AL had several 'serious' elements throughout the story (primarily Liam's cancer and Melissa's family issues), but they were never the primary focus of the game. Yet just as the game is entering the final stretch, an entirely new serious plotline leaps out of the woodwork, literally murders one of the main characters, and proceeds to drag the MC through every miserable thing it does to him over the next two acts. The MC suffers a nervous breakdown from the trauma; no surprise it traumatized some players too!

That, IMHO, is the concern about Acting Lessons. It goes extremely dark, but the darkness doesn't flow naturally out of the work. It's tacked on at the end for maximum shock value. DPC has made it clear he's fine with how AL ended, which means that *if* he wants to put a shocking turn into this game, it's entirely possible he will use the same technique.

And technique makes a big difference. Even if DPC intends BaDIK to have a lighter tone than AL (hardly a constraint!), we know there are going to be some heavy moments. The question is how those moments are presented. For example, plenty of people have speculated about Neil dying; the death of a beloved mentor is a classic trope in a coming of age story like this. There are lots of ways that could be done, and some are more dark than others. But let's consider the difference between these two scenarios:
  • WARNING: The following scenarios are entirely for illustrative purposes!
  • Following some major revelations about the MC's mother, he and Neil have a big argument. The MC returns to B&R and a few days later Neil is killed in an accident at the construction site. The MC is devastated that he never got the chance to make up with his father, but his friends at B&R offer their support to help him through it. In the following episode, the MC gives a big eulogy to his dad, and even reconnects with a few members of Lynette's family who choose to attend.
  • Desperate for money to cover her losses, Quinn turns to the MC for help but he refuses, annoyed with the upheaval caused by [insert latest shenanigans here]. Instead, Quinn is forced to arrange an accident at Neil's worksite as part of a protection racket. A few days later, the MC is fooling around with [preferred LI] when Quinn makes her move. But something goes wrong and Quinn is caught in the catastrophe. Unaware of her guilt, Neil saves her and dies instead. When the MC learns the truth, he is unable to process it. He blames [preferred LI] for distracting him and preventing him from racing to his dad's side at the hospital leading to a breakup. He blames himself for not helping Quinn when he had the the chance, dropping out of B&R. Above all, he blames Quinn for actually doing all this. Unable to prove anything to the cops, he relentlessly hounds her for weeks. In the following episode, Quinn finally suffers a nervous breakdown and attempts suicide. Based on his actions thus far, the MC can get the chance to forgive Quinn and talk her out of it, or condemn her and get closure. Either way, he he visits Neil's grave to explain his thoughts and begins the long process of putting his life (and relationships) back on track.
Personally, I think both of those are 'dark' turns the story could take and both are still much better than Acting Lessons. But assuming equal execution, I find the former far more appropriate to this game's story than the latter. Unfortunately, the author who gave us AL could well give us the latter, and there would be no warning until it happened. So I'm not going to stop worrying about this game until we get to the end credits.
 

Holy Bacchus

Conversation Conqueror
Dec 13, 2018
7,748
19,529
It's not just that DPC's first game was dark, it's the manner in which it was dark that matters. AL had several 'serious' elements throughout the story (primarily Liam's cancer and Melissa's family issues), but they were never the primary focus of the game. Yet just as the game is entering the final stretch, an entirely new serious plotline leaps out of the woodwork, literally murders one of the main characters, and proceeds to drag the MC through every miserable thing it does to him over the next two acts. The MC suffers a nervous breakdown from the trauma; no surprise it traumatized some players too!

That, IMHO, is the concern about Acting Lessons. It goes extremely dark, but the darkness doesn't flow naturally out of the work. It's tacked on at the end for maximum shock value. DPC has made it clear he's fine with how AL ended, which means that *if* he wants to put a shocking turn into this game, it's entirely possible he will use the same technique.

And technique makes a big difference. Even if DPC intends BaDIK to have a lighter tone than AL (hardly a constraint!), we know there are going to be some heavy moments. The question is how those moments are presented. For example, plenty of people have speculated about Neil dying; the death of a beloved mentor is a classic trope in a coming of age story like this. There are lots of ways that could be done, and some are more dark than others. But let's consider the difference between these two scenarios:
  • WARNING: The following scenarios are entirely for illustrative purposes!
  • Following some major revelations about the MC's mother, he and Neil have a big argument. The MC returns to B&R and a few days later Neil is killed in an accident at the construction site. The MC is devastated that he never got the chance to make up with his father, but his friends at B&R offer their support to help him through it. In the following episode, the MC gives a big eulogy to his dad, and even reconnects with a few members of Lynette's family who choose to attend.
  • Desperate for money to cover her losses, Quinn turns to the MC for help but he refuses, annoyed with the upheaval caused by [insert latest shenanigans here]. Instead, Quinn is forced to arrange an accident at Neil's worksite as part of a protection racket. A few days later, the MC is fooling around with [preferred LI] when Quinn makes her move. But something goes wrong and Quinn is caught in the catastrophe. Unaware of her guilt, Neil saves her and dies instead. When the MC learns the truth, he is unable to process it. He blames [preferred LI] for distracting him and preventing him from racing to his dad's side at the hospital leading to a breakup. He blames himself for not helping Quinn when he had the the chance, dropping out of B&R. Above all, he blames Quinn for actually doing all this. Unable to prove anything to the cops, he relentlessly hounds her for weeks. In the following episode, Quinn finally suffers a nervous breakdown and attempts suicide. Based on his actions thus far, the MC can get the chance to forgive Quinn and talk her out of it, or condemn her and get closure. Either way, he he visits Neil's grave to explain his thoughts and begins the long process of putting his life (and relationships) back on track.
Personally, I think both of those are 'dark' turns the story could take and both are still much better than Acting Lessons. But assuming equal execution, I find the former far more appropriate to this game's story than the latter. Unfortunately, the author who gave us AL could well give us the latter, and there would be no warning until it happened. So I'm not going to stop worrying about this game until we get to the end credits.
In large part, I agree with you. What happened in AL was tacked on and DPC was very defensive in the face of the criticism, so much so that they left this site and have seemingly renounced it, which would seem to suggest that they're not above doing something this devastatingly tragic again if they want to because they won't care about potential backlash. You're right that this game's setting and it's lighter tone does not prevent it from including a tragedy befalling either the MC or one of the LIs, and that's something that often worries me.

However, that example involving Quinn, even as just a hypothetical concept, seems a bit convoluted and I don't think anything quite that involved would happen. More likely her suppliers would come to collect from her and someone would get caught in the middle and either be gravely injured or killed.
 
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Derek9110

Newbie
Nov 5, 2017
18
15
I don't know DPC personally, so maybe he really is just making games to torture players at the end (hey, we all have our fetishes) but I seriously doubt this game will end with the same grimdark manner as AL. For one thing AL was way, way darker from the beginning of the game (the MC almost get killed and one of the love interest is getting physically abused). Nothing in BaDIK has risen beyond the level of melodrama so far IMO.

I'm not saying the ending of AL didn't come out of left field or was darker than even those plot points listed above merrited, but if you look back at the AL thread people were predicting that it would end badly way before the fire update. The signs were there. I don't think you can say the same about BaDIK in good faith given what's happened in the story so far*.

Also, and admittedly this is a bit of a meta reason, but everyone is on the look out for the shock ending now. The same magic trick isn't as effective twice and I doubt DPC wants to be considered a hack.

There could very well be a sad ending for BaDIK in some of the paths but I really do think it will be consistent with the game at large.



*I reserve the right to completely disavow this comment if it turns out Bella is hiding bodies behing the locked door in the next update.
 

MrFriendly

Officially Dead Inside
Donor
Feb 23, 2020
5,875
14,432
It's not just that DPC's first game was dark, it's the manner in which it was dark that matters. AL had several 'serious' elements throughout the story (primarily Liam's cancer and Melissa's family issues), but they were never the primary focus of the game. Yet just as the game is entering the final stretch, an entirely new serious plotline leaps out of the woodwork, literally murders one of the main characters, and proceeds to drag the MC through every miserable thing it does to him over the next two acts. The MC suffers a nervous breakdown from the trauma; no surprise it traumatized some players too!

That, IMHO, is the concern about Acting Lessons. It goes extremely dark, but the darkness doesn't flow naturally out of the work. It's tacked on at the end for maximum shock value. DPC has made it clear he's fine with how AL ended, which means that *if* he wants to put a shocking turn into this game, it's entirely possible he will use the same technique.

And technique makes a big difference. Even if DPC intends BaDIK to have a lighter tone than AL (hardly a constraint!), we know there are going to be some heavy moments. The question is how those moments are presented. For example, plenty of people have speculated about Neil dying; the death of a beloved mentor is a classic trope in a coming of age story like this. There are lots of ways that could be done, and some are more dark than others. But let's consider the difference between these two scenarios:
  • WARNING: The following scenarios are entirely for illustrative purposes!
  • Following some major revelations about the MC's mother, he and Neil have a big argument. The MC returns to B&R and a few days later Neil is killed in an accident at the construction site. The MC is devastated that he never got the chance to make up with his father, but his friends at B&R offer their support to help him through it. In the following episode, the MC gives a big eulogy to his dad, and even reconnects with a few members of Lynette's family who choose to attend.
  • Desperate for money to cover her losses, Quinn turns to the MC for help but he refuses, annoyed with the upheaval caused by [insert latest shenanigans here]. Instead, Quinn is forced to arrange an accident at Neil's worksite as part of a protection racket. A few days later, the MC is fooling around with [preferred LI] when Quinn makes her move. But something goes wrong and Quinn is caught in the catastrophe. Unaware of her guilt, Neil saves her and dies instead. When the MC learns the truth, he is unable to process it. He blames [preferred LI] for distracting him and preventing him from racing to his dad's side at the hospital leading to a breakup. He blames himself for not helping Quinn when he had the the chance, dropping out of B&R. Above all, he blames Quinn for actually doing all this. Unable to prove anything to the cops, he relentlessly hounds her for weeks. In the following episode, Quinn finally suffers a nervous breakdown and attempts suicide. Based on his actions thus far, the MC can get the chance to forgive Quinn and talk her out of it, or condemn her and get closure. Either way, he he visits Neil's grave to explain his thoughts and begins the long process of putting his life (and relationships) back on track.
Personally, I think both of those are 'dark' turns the story could take and both are still much better than Acting Lessons. But assuming equal execution, I find the former far more appropriate to this game's story than the latter. Unfortunately, the author who gave us AL could well give us the latter, and there would be no warning until it happened. So I'm not going to stop worrying about this game until we get to the end credits.
In large part, I agree with you. What happened in AL was tacked on and DPC was very defensive in the face of the criticism, so much so that they left this site and have seemingly renounced it, which would seem to suggest that they're not above doing something this devastatingly tragic again if they want to because they won't care about potential backlash. You're right that this game's setting and it's lighter tone does not prevent it from including a tragedy befalling either the MC or one of the LIs, and that's something that often worries me.

However, that example involving Quinn, even as just a hypothetical concept, seems a bit convoluted and I don't think anything quite that involved would happen. More likely her suppliers would come to collect from her and someone would get caught in the middle and either be gravely injured or killed.
I completely understand where you are coming from with the criticism and I pretty much I agree that for the story we were being told everything happened suddenly, however I felt that AL did some things right with the dark parts. Sometimes, or rather often, we don't see the dark shit coming in our lives. People die unexpectedly without a chance to mend fences or someone else takes an argument too far.

In the end I felt like the darkness at the end of AL was too much, it piled up too many horrible things and ruined the overall narrative of the game, and, the worst part is it tainted the memories people have of the game. When people talk about the game the focus is on the dark ending. I don't know that I've heard anyone else talk about a single aspect of the game other than the darkness and how it was too dark.

My hope for this game is that DPC has learned from AL and will write a story that isn't as dark but has some gray moments. And that we get enough light moments that people will remember the game for versus whatever twists are coming. Essentially a balanced narrative that perhaps tilts towards the light a bit more. Especially considering how dark our real world is now.

I don't know DPC personally, so maybe he really is just making games to torture players at the end (hey, we all have our fetishes) but I seriously doubt this game will end with the same grimdark manner as AL. For one thing AL was way, way darker from the beginning of the game (the MC almost get killed and one of the love interest is getting physically abused). Nothing in BaDIK has risen beyond the level of melodrama so far IMO.

I'm not saying the ending of AL didn't come out of left field or was darker than even those plot points listed above merrited, but if you look back at the AL thread people were predicting that it would end badly way before the fire update. The signs were there. I don't think you can say the same about BaDIK in good faith given what's happened in the story so far*.

Also, and admittedly this is a bit of a meta reason, but everyone is on the look out for the shock ending now. The same magic trick isn't as effective twice and I doubt DPC wants to be considered a hack.

There could very well be a sad ending for BaDIK in some of the paths but I really do think it will be consistent with the game at large.



*I reserve the right to completely disavow this comment if it turns out Bella is hiding bodies behing the locked door in the next update.
As to your point about the "shock ending", just because we all know that M. Night Shyamalan(sp?) is going to have a twist at the end didn't stop him from having a twist ending...
 

Josh Spicer

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2018
1,207
1,665
*I reserve the right to completely disavow this comment if it turns out Bella is hiding bodies behing the locked door in the next update.
The best part is that wouldn't stop Bella stans from still liking her.

Not that I'm any better. I still stan Quinn after the shit she's done.
 

ename144

Engaged Member
Sep 20, 2018
3,208
13,378
However, that example involving Quinn, even as just a hypothetical concept, seems a bit convoluted and I don't think anything quite that involved would happen. More likely her suppliers would come to collect from her and someone would get caught in the middle and either be gravely injured or killed.
Yeah, it's quite convoluted. I needed something that would make the MC agonize over what he did/didn't do and mope about making things worse for a long time. Since I didn't want Quinn to kill someone just because she's secretly been a psychopath all along ( :mad: ), that was the first scenario I could make work. As I said, for illustrative purposes only.
 

Red469

Active Member
May 18, 2018
731
753
For news come back friday afternoon. For ETA/ Update just stop asking and have patience. It is confirmed it will come in 2020.
Whats gonna drop come friday?

Try telling Quinn to be Patient and see how far you get... :D
Patience is for the Dead...
 
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felicemastronzo

Devoted Member
May 17, 2020
11,184
21,848
It's not just that DPC's first game was dark, it's the manner in which it was dark that matters. AL had several 'serious' elements throughout the story (primarily Liam's cancer and Melissa's family issues), but they were never the primary focus of the game. Yet just as the game is entering the final stretch, an entirely new serious plotline leaps out of the woodwork, literally murders one of the main characters, and proceeds to drag the MC through every miserable thing it does to him over the next two acts. The MC suffers a nervous breakdown from the trauma; no surprise it traumatized some players too!

That, IMHO, is the concern about Acting Lessons. It goes extremely dark, but the darkness doesn't flow naturally out of the work. It's tacked on at the end for maximum shock value. DPC has made it clear he's fine with how AL ended, which means that *if* he wants to put a shocking turn into this game, it's entirely possible he will use the same technique.

And technique makes a big difference. Even if DPC intends BaDIK to have a lighter tone than AL (hardly a constraint!), we know there are going to be some heavy moments. The question is how those moments are presented. For example, plenty of people have speculated about Neil dying; the death of a beloved mentor is a classic trope in a coming of age story like this. There are lots of ways that could be done, and some are more dark than others. But let's consider the difference between these two scenarios:
  • WARNING: The following scenarios are entirely for illustrative purposes!
  • Following some major revelations about the MC's mother, he and Neil have a big argument. The MC returns to B&R and a few days later Neil is killed in an accident at the construction site. The MC is devastated that he never got the chance to make up with his father, but his friends at B&R offer their support to help him through it. In the following episode, the MC gives a big eulogy to his dad, and even reconnects with a few members of Lynette's family who choose to attend.
  • Desperate for money to cover her losses, Quinn turns to the MC for help but he refuses, annoyed with the upheaval caused by [insert latest shenanigans here]. Instead, Quinn is forced to arrange an accident at Neil's worksite as part of a protection racket. A few days later, the MC is fooling around with [preferred LI] when Quinn makes her move. But something goes wrong and Quinn is caught in the catastrophe. Unaware of her guilt, Neil saves her and dies instead. When the MC learns the truth, he is unable to process it. He blames [preferred LI] for distracting him and preventing him from racing to his dad's side at the hospital leading to a breakup. He blames himself for not helping Quinn when he had the the chance, dropping out of B&R. Above all, he blames Quinn for actually doing all this. Unable to prove anything to the cops, he relentlessly hounds her for weeks. In the following episode, Quinn finally suffers a nervous breakdown and attempts suicide. Based on his actions thus far, the MC can get the chance to forgive Quinn and talk her out of it, or condemn her and get closure. Either way, he he visits Neil's grave to explain his thoughts and begins the long process of putting his life (and relationships) back on track.
Personally, I think both of those are 'dark' turns the story could take and both are still much better than Acting Lessons. But assuming equal execution, I find the former far more appropriate to this game's story than the latter. Unfortunately, the author who gave us AL could well give us the latter, and there would be no warning until it happened. So I'm not going to stop worrying about this game until we get to the end credits.

I share your reasoning.
there are many possibilities to insert a traumatic, mourning event into history, without upsetting its general spirit, but in any case marking its path.

However, I would add one consideration: the more realistic the event, the stronger the emotional participation will be. sticking to your example, if Neil died in a work accident, many players may or may not have directly faced a similar situation, the involvement would be greater. if, on the other hand, death is placed in an excessive context this turns off the involvement.

Leah's responsibility in the fire takes responsibility from MC, and the player, in choosing who to save. the subsequent guilt is valid for MC much less for the player
 
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Feb 13, 2020
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There is already enough content in the game for a shocking twist for the players without the need for something dark to happen.

1) The Bella situation
2) The Quinn situation with her providers for the drugs or with Tommy
3) Chad's blackmailer
4) The a-hole that put Cathy's picture on rooster ( fanning the flames of war between tri-alphas and diks)
5) Sage's family.
6) MC's letter about his mom
7) Maya's father
8) Jade's family ( Tybalt is creepy stalker acting like a child obsessed with Jill, there is more to her husband's infidelity (to make Mona run away and drop the prostitution thing)
9) Every relationship the MC has with girls ( look at the Maya/Josy situation) , especially the ones with the teachers.

Without going the dark route there is more than enough to give the players a lot of unease.
Let's not forget that everyone has his own sensibility to things.
Perfect example would be 9), if something bad happen with a girl one doesn't really care, it may not affect them the same way than for a girl they actually do care.

The Maya/Josie arc, I could relate to Mc and Jade because, been there, live that and I would not have reacting the way I did when I played it (very well) if I had played that part back then.

With how the story is written there are plenty of ways to relate to the characters (betrayal, bullying, loss a parent , new changes etc ...) and can affect us badly ( or not ) hence the warning at the start of the game.

I think some people are reading too much into it.
 

felicemastronzo

Devoted Member
May 17, 2020
11,184
21,848
There is already enough content in the game for a shocking twist for the players without the need for something dark to happen.

1) The Bella situation
2) The Quinn situation with her providers for the drugs or with Tommy
3) Chad's blackmailer
4) The a-hole that put Cathy's picture on rooster ( fanning the flames of war between tri-alphas and diks)
5) Sage's family.
6) MC's letter about his mom
7) Maya's father
8) Jade's family ( Tybalt is creepy stalker acting like a child obsessed with Jill, there is more to her husband's infidelity (to make Mona run away and drop the prostitution thing)
9) Every relationship the MC has with girls ( look at the Maya/Josy situation) , especially the ones with the teachers.

Without going the dark route there is more than enough to give the players a lot of unease.
Let's not forget that everyone has his own sensibility to things.
Perfect example would be 9), if something bad happen with a girl one doesn't really care, it may not affect them the same way than for a girl they actually do care.

The Maya/Josie arc, I could relate to Mc and Jade because, been there, live that and I would not have reacting the way I did when I played it (very well) if I had played that part back then.

With how the story is written there are plenty of ways to relate to the characters (betrayal, bullying, loss a parent , new changes etc ...) and can affect us badly ( or not ) hence the warning at the start of the game.

I think some people are reading too much into it.
the first two points are the main suspects of a heavily dramatic turn...
 

rahkshi01

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
1,718
1,657
Ok I checked the tags for this and I am somewhat worried by what I don't see. Please tell me that there is the possibility of a harem route. You can't possibly give me a group of such hot girls and expect me to not want them all or even worse reject one of them!!! That is just criminal!!!
 
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felicemastronzo

Devoted Member
May 17, 2020
11,184
21,848
Ok I checked the tags for this and I am somewhat worried by what I don't see. Please tell me that there is the possibility of a harem route. You can't possibly give me a group of such hot girls and expect me to not want them all or even worse reject one of them!!! That is just criminal!!!
sorry, no harem here ...

there will probably be the possibility of being with 2 girls at the same time, but nothing more crowded
 

rahkshi01

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
1,718
1,657
sorry, no harem here ...

there will probably be the possibility of being with 2 girls at the same time, but nothing more crowded
OH MY GOODNESS!!!!!! HOW!!!! THIS IS INHUMANE!!! How can you give me this especially that pic with all the girls lying down and expect me not to make a harem!?!?! Why do this!?!?!? Please tell me that there is some small glimmer of hope that the dev would even consider it. Anything else is just unimaginable.
 
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