VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[Oliver Wendell Homely]

EP9 is off the rail.

That's an opinion ungrounded in fact until the episode gets released and we can evaluate it.

As for whether other patrons are getting impatient, I'm not seeing anyone expressing any impatience, really. I don't spend much time reading comments on Patreon, so it's possible I'm not seeing them, but I expect the most common demonstration of impatience would be to discontinue being a patron, not leaving a complaint in the comments.

I mean, everyone here is free to express their opinions, of course. I understand impatience and am not insensitive to the argument that DPC is trying to ride this gravy train as long as possible. I think few people would act differently, but to some this may seem a form of "milking supporters." I played "Milfy City" and was as annoyed as everyone else when ICSTOR absconded, but I never contributed to his Patreon, so never posted any complaints or angry reactions. Why would I be angry? I'm not out anything. I'm disappointed that the game will (presumably) never be finished, but the time I spent on it was enjoyable.

So, when people who are not supporters complain about DPC, I find it ridiculous. Not only because they do not support the game financially, but because they are complaining based entirely on speculation.

 

[felicemastronzo]

Fuckface would require answers to the following questions (and DPC would always use flashbacks as it's his style (like with Zoey story told to Bella)) from Zoey:

• What happened to your surfing dreams?
• What did you do in San Diego instead then?
• Did you have any boyfriends?
• Why did that girl accuse you of fucking her ex then?
• What happened with that girl afterwards?
• Why did you ghost me, did I mean that little to you (especially after finding out the ex thing was a lie)?

The Interlude answers those questions and not much more. The scenes in the Interlude would have been required as flashbacks in future episodes (or even all in a single conversation between Fuckface and Zoey, which would have taken a huge chunk of playtime out of ep 9). To suggest they wouldn't have been is disingenuous. Overall I think the wait between ep 8 and ep 9 would be similar with or without the Interlude (we'd also have DPC obsessing over whether the import feature he was testing with the interlude was going to work).

actually the only two questions Zoey has to answer are "what did you go back to?" (college, something about graphic) and "why did you stop answering?" (because ... boh because someone she barely knew told her)
and these two questions MC could have asked her even without the interlude, in fact the second one would have been better if he hadn't asked it and more than a question it will be a confession from Zoey

the others are fairly useless questions, some created just by the interlude, but which MC doesn't give a damn about

the surfing dream ended because the water was wet and cold. great
the whole misunderstanding about Emma's post was born and died in the interlude, without it there would have been no questions to ask, questions that lead nowhere (why should MC be informed whether or not Zoey had a boyfriend?).

the one big revelation of the interlude is that Zoey may have artistic talent, a fact we could not imagine before

 

[felicemastronzo]

That's an opinion ungrounded in fact until the episode gets released and we can evaluate it.

As for whether other patrons are getting impatient, I'm not seeing anyone expressing any impatience, really. I don't spend much time reading comments on Patreon, so it's possible I'm not seeing them, but I expect the most common demonstration of impatience would be to discontinue being a patron, not leaving a complaint in the comments.

I mean, everyone here is free to express their opinions, of course. I understand impatience and am not insensitive to the argument that DPC is trying to ride this gravy train as long as possible. I think few people would act differently, but to some this may seem a form of "milking supporters." I played "Milfy City" and was as annoyed as everyone else when ICSTOR absconded, but I never contributed to his Patreon, so never posted any complaints or angry reactions. Why would I be angry? I'm not out anything. I'm disappointed that the game will (presumably) never be finished, but the time I spent on it was enjoyable.

So, when people who are not supporters complain about DPC, I find it ridiculous. Not only because they do not support the game financially, but because they are complaining based entirely on speculation.

and on what should one base opinions about something that one knows only indirectly?

that it is practically since the fourth chapter that DPC has been talking about reducing the size of the chapters is quite a fact?

I want to disregard all the waiting until the interlude (despite not being a fan of it), in that time DPC has essentially done in its own interests, the launch on Steam, the one on GOG but that's okay

is there any reason why I should be happy that probably the production time for the chapters has stretched to 7-8 months?
that it will be worth it, seems to me to be absolute speculation, we will see when it comes out, although then anyway not having paid for it I won't be able to say it wasn't worth it (as it wasn't worth it for the eighth chapter which was supposed to be a peak as a season closer, but at least he filled it with all the sex he could think of)

 

[felicemastronzo]

Fuckface saw the Rooster cluck, the pic is part of the story told to Bella so it doesn't live and die in the interlude, of course he'd want to know the story behind it, especially if Zoey is making an effort to get back with him. The story of the Rooster cluck automatically leads into the story of Bret and the tattoo shop, which automatically links into why she gave up on surfing. It also leads into the resolution (revenge or getting Bret and Emma back together) because Fuckface is not the type of guy to not want to know how the story ends.

I find your reasoning wrong.

GIVEN that the interlude exists it may be that Zoey with MC will talk again about every detail of her life in San Diego (I doubt it, it would be extremely boring) and the question of Emma, being the only one the game keeps memory of, will surely return in some way

but if not, what would have changed? practically nothing.
"Zoey, I thought you were engaged" "forget it, that picture was a spite from a friend" enough, what do we care beyond that?
even the fact that Zoey decided to cut off relations was not a necessary explanation, distance has this effect, you write less and less and at some point you don't write anymore. is this guilt for Zoey so fundamental? that she first decides it's better to let him go and then decides to come back (we'll see with what delicacy)?

do you really think the interlude will have all that much space in the first, or subsequent, meetings between MC and Zoey?

 

[dalli_x]

I find your reasoning wrong.

GIVEN that the interlude exists it may be that Zoey with MC will talk again about every detail of her life in San Diego (I doubt it, it would be extremely boring) and the question of Emma, being the only one the game keeps memory of, will surely return in some way

but if not, what would have changed? practically nothing.
"Zoey, I thought you were engaged" "forget it, that picture was a spite from a friend" enough, what do we care beyond that?
even the fact that Zoey decided to cut off relations was not a necessary explanation, distance has this effect, you write less and less and at some point you don't write anymore. is this guilt for Zoey so fundamental? that she first decides it's better to let him go and then decides to come back (we'll see with what delicacy)?

do you really think the interlude will have all that much space in the first, or subsequent, meetings between MC and Zoey?

felicemastronzo it will probably be the biggest EP of BaDIK. 5 branches a 3 hours of playtime and that's without minigames. With minigames it will probably be between 18 and 20 hours.

At my pace of play, more like 2 days.

I just remembered another reason. DPC once wrote that he needed longer and more content for Hell Week and other scenes. That's why he increased the EP count from 12 to 16. Maybe he needs to pack EP9 so full so he can stay at his goal of 16EPs. Just a thought.

 

[felicemastronzo]

felicemastronzo it will probably be the biggest EP of BaDIK. 5 branches a 3 hours of playtime and that's without minigames. With minigames it will probably be between 18 and 20 hours.

At my pace of play, more like 2 days.

I just remembered another reason. DPC once wrote that he needed longer and more content for Hell Week and other scenes. That's why he increased the EP count from 12 to 16. Maybe he needs to pack EP9 so full so he can stay at his goal of 16EPs. Just a thought.

maybe, but it won't be like that

9 will be the biggest chapter before the release of 10, and 10 will be the biggest chapter before 11

maybe the last one with the epilogue (in 2000never) will be slightly smaller

The question is not "What do we care beyond that?". The question is "What would Fuckface care beyond that?" and we know that Fuckface would require more details, either he wouldn't believe her (if he's a DIK), or he'd want to know why a "friend" would have that much spite towards her (if he's neutral or CHICK). Everything we know about Fuckface says that he'd inquire further and not just leave it at that, and everything we know about DPC says that he would show us Zoey's answers in flashback not just in text form. Everything that was in the interlude would have been in future episodes if it wasn't in the interlude.

to me it seems impossible that at the time of their meeting Zoey and MC would go into a full summary of the interlude, it would make a moment that is meant to be exciting incredibly boring

 

[SomboSteel]

The conversation no longer has to happen onscreen because of the interlude. Without the interlude the conversation would have happened because of the type of person Fuckface is, he'd have needed the answers, we now know the answers he gets so we don't need to see them. Yes, it would have been boring, which is part of the reason DPC created the interlude imo, he knew it would be boring and would take a big chunk of the playtime of the episode, so he got it out of the way as a standalone mini-episode while also testing out the import mechanics to make sure it was working properly.

idk about you, but i think DPC shouldnt focus on telling any stories that he KNOWS are boring. its his job as the writer to make it interesting, or to know when to cut stuff that is in fact irredeemably boring.

if there is no way DPC could make that information from the Interlude work as an interesting story that the players would actually care about, then he shouldnt have wasted time on it to begin with. unless im misunderstanding you, i feel like what you said is basically admitting that the Interlude is in fact a failure on DPC's part.

 

[DrSoong]

why? didn't he tell 5 stories anyway with each chapter before? (actually since the second season, the first one told essentially one)

the only difference before and after the eighth chapter is that now to see the 5 stories you have to do 5 games

It's a difference between tell one story about 5 different people and 5 stories. Yes, the stories have connecting points but there is way more to do with the differences. And thinking of DPC as a perfectionist he want to do it so that he is satisfied, not thinking of the waiting crowd (and not giving a fuck of all here not supporting him by being a patron).

At last we have to wait until he releases the new Ep, for me the delay is good, so i get my new computer before it's released.

 

[DrSoong]

Madame Rose is actually Lynette. We'll find that out in the diary later. This is insider information, trust me.

dalli_x, how did you manage to hack into Lostanddamneds account?

 

[felicemastronzo]

It's a difference between tell one story about 5 different people and 5 stories. Yes, the stories have connecting points but there is way more to do with the differences. And thinking of DPC as a perfectionist he want to do it so that he is satisfied, not thinking of the waiting crowd (and not giving a fuck of all here not supporting him by being a patron).

At last we have to wait until he releases the new Ep, for me the delay is good, so i get my new computer before it's released.

the next one will be identical to the past chapters, as if it were a "faithful" run

if Jill invites us to the recital we will still go, if Bella offers us a job we will still go, if Josy asks us to go to the gym we will be there etc. etc.
then there will be exclusive scenes, as there always have been, no more no less

otherwise DPC of months would have put us 30 (6x5) and not 8

 

[gamingdevil800]

The problem is the events of the interlude are required to bring Zoey back into the story, whether bringing Zoey back is a good or bad move depends on future episodes.

For me the interlude is a better way of telling Zoey's story to bring her back into the story than a longass conversation with Fuckface that would have taken up a huge chunk of ep 9 and been boring in that context. The interlude is far from the quality of the rest of BaD, but it's better as a standalone that can be skipped after one playthrough than a required conversation on each path in ep 9 that would have taken 10 mins to even ctrl through.

Firstly near enough every episode of BADIK has a flashback at the start of the episode that would've been where to place it.
Maybe he did need to do it this way though but did it need sex scenes, animations and multiple choice? It really didn't... It could've been condensed down without the bloat and would've had the same effect. I can't even remember everything that happened and have no interest in replaying it. All we needed to know was she went there, made some friends had a falling out with one and came back. Didn't need to see her mother (with her half dead looking character model) among other things. Could've been a 30 minute or 1 hour interlude and he wouldn't have needed to spend 4 months making it...

 

[Ilhares]

Everything we know about Fuckface says that he'd inquire further and not just leave it at that

Would he, though? He doesn't ask names, he often forgets to ask useful questions and storms out (he's a snowflake), and he sure as hell doesn't communicate clearly when he's supposed to be caring for people (re: Quinn/Maya, restaurant situation).

dalli_x, how did you manage to hack into Lostanddamneds account?

Lynette is dead, we know it isn't her. I've been saying for quite some time that it's Bianca's mother, and given some of the foolishness that DPC has put forward, this only stands up against superficial reason.

We fuck Sage. We fuck Sage's mother.
We fuck Maya. We fuck Maya's mother (Nora).
We fuck Jill. We intend to fuck Jill's mother (Amelia).
We'll fuck Bianca. .. Some weirdos will fuck Bianca's mother. And as is thematically appropriate, since you can probablyonly fuck Bianca if you're on the Jill path, there will be repurcussions. You'll pay for it.

Bella's pretty much in the clear, since her parents are dead.
Josy's mother seems unlikely to appear.

 

[ffive]

I swear people have spent more time whining about the interlude in this thread alone than DPC has making it.

 

[Ilhares]

I swear people have spent more time whining about the interlude in this thread alone than DPC has making it.

You'd almost think it was the Rise of Skywalker by how badly people have taken it. The main difference being that the interlude actually had a script.

 

[Silkymilk]

Update before end of week?

 

[Kassandara]

We fuck Maya. We fuck Maya's mother (Nora).

After this Derek would definitely fuck Neil

 

[Geralt From Rivia]

That's an opinion ungrounded in fact until the episode gets released and we can evaluate it.

As for whether other patrons are getting impatient, I'm not seeing anyone expressing any impatience, really. I don't spend much time reading comments on Patreon, so it's possible I'm not seeing them, but I expect the most common demonstration of impatience would be to discontinue being a patron, not leaving a complaint in the comments.

I mean, everyone here is free to express their opinions, of course. I understand impatience and am not insensitive to the argument that DPC is trying to ride this gravy train as long as possible. I think few people would act differently, but to some this may seem a form of "milking supporters." I played "Milfy City" and was as annoyed as everyone else when ICSTOR absconded, but I never contributed to his Patreon, so never posted any complaints or angry reactions. Why would I be angry? I'm not out anything. I'm disappointed that the game will (presumably) never be finished, but the time I spent on it was enjoyable.

So, when people who are not supporters complain about DPC, I find it ridiculous. Not only because they do not support the game financially, but because they are complaining based entirely on speculation.

Interestingly, I see such whining only on the F95 forum. Reddit fan page, (I don't like Reddit but I have to give them credit) there people are more restrained, I did not see there drama whining and shouting "why so long", "dev milking" and "blame the Interlude".
And judging by what I saw on Patreon, its subscribers respond adequately, the number of donators has been stable for several months within 11.5-13.5k subscribers. So there is no "collapse of subscribers". Only here there is such drama and all because he did not provide data on animations and suggested that he would have to do more animations. Just assumed.
There is a Kindergarten.

 

[Ilhares]

After this Derek would definitely fuck Neil

If you check the list in his room you'll see he's already crossed Neil's name off it, suggesting he has succeeded.

 

[allanl9020142]

I'll disagree in turn. Most of those plot points aren't particularly important. As Sheet420 said, they were added to justify the length of the Interlude. We didn't see Zoey gradually lose enthusiasm for surfing; she tried it once, sucked at it, and then we barely see her on a surfboard again. Zoey's artistic skills would have been better established via the MC's memories (in which case seeing them in action in the Interlude would at least have been a nice treat). Her strictly platonic friendship with Bret goes nowhere and Emma's jealousy comes straight out of left field. Even the big decision about how Zoey handles things with Emma feels like a questionable design choice: it's not like anyone would bat and eyelash if Zoey had a preset personality like all the other LIs.

The only thing the Interlude really *needed* to do was sell us on why Zoey left the MC and why she was returning - and IMHO it did a lousy job at those, too. She left because she was obsessed with a very shallow dream and she came back because she'd run out of money.

I care less about Zoey now than I did before I met her.



Going to have to disagree with this as well. DPC's cliffhangers are uneven at best. Episode 3 was great, but 4 felt underwhelming after the rushed resolution to the Maya/Josy crisis; was there any doubt we'd become a DIK? Episode 5 was effective as a kind of 'hitting rock bottom' moment, but I wouldn't call it a cliffhanger. Episode 6 definitely got our attention, but it was a bit frustrating seeing Maya's arc reset like that - especially if you weren't on her path. Episode 8 hit the reset button even harder, plus it ducked out of the consequences of the Crossroads AND had that moronic one-size-fits-all fuckstorm at the end. Really Episode 7 was the only ending I actually liked in Season 2, and the 'cliffhanger' was the weakest part (to the point Chad/Troy is barely even mentioned in Episode 8).

Frankly, the reason I'm so annoyed at the long production time for Episode 9 is because DPC botched the ending to Season 2 so badly. I want to be enthusiastic for the new season, but I have no idea what he's planning to do with it and I don't like the direction Episode 8 left us in because DPC was too obsessed with his dumb twists to sell me on what was supposedly a pivotal decision in the MC's life.

Same. I was disappointed with ep 8, its development time also took longer than previous episodes and it didn't really have all the extensive mini-games that some people say is the reason for the longer development times except for the very last round of the mansion rebuilding mini-game (which I actually enjoyed).

I liked the Interlude and Zoey as a character but I honestly don't give a single fuck about her as a potential LI.

About 7 months since the Interlude and 10 months since ep 8. Ep 9 might remedy why I felt Ep 8 was lacking or it might not. I won't know until I play it. If not, then we're looking at even longer development times in the future for what? Ep 9 has got me feeling impatient and antsy for several reasons and just not because I would like the newest episode.

(No one has to read the rest. I just ended up going on a rant.)
There's "perfectionism" and then there's "pedantry". If all the little things he's adding in as we speak just go unnoticed (not like we'll know exactly what but it seems like the large bulk of the story for ep 9 has been completed) then it's just meaningless. Unless that long-ass animation is mind blowing, I'm probably not going to even notice it until I think "Huh, this scene has been going on for a while now. Oh yea, this must be the thing he mentioned. Whatever." DPC does put a lot of detail into getting things right which has been great but he was doing that before the increasingly elongated dev times. IF ep 9 gives me the same "meh" feeling as ep 8 then I just don't see the point in even longer development times.

It's not a big deal. DPC will still be, in my eyes, the best VN creator/dev but I'm already looking past ep 9 into ep 10 and just thinking that if the wait time of one update per year isn't worth it and the Interlude wasn't necessary then my interest will gradually decline and I might just forget about it altogether.

I'd still most likely remember it at some point and go right back to Patreon but one of the reasons why I'm feeling antsy about ep 9 is that it feels like a "make or break" type of thing. The question I'm asking is "Will that huge investment of time go to waste"? "Is there actually some bigger plan in mind for the plot or is ep 8 what we should expect from now on?"

The most recent weekly update was demoralizing because I feel like I'd been trying to justify the long wait time.

• "Ep 8 was just wrapping things up to make paths less complicated. We'll get back to why BADIK felt so 'alive" starting in ep 9"
• "Oh, yea the Interlude was needed."
• "Well he has to create new minigames from scratch for this season because there's new classes and the mansion is done and I actually liked the mansion one"
• "This Halloween free roam is going to be HUGE and not underwhelming at all relative to the amount of time being spent on it"
• "Oh yea, he had to deal with 'this' or 'that', totally out of his control."
• "Nah, he just needs to finish this long animation and then we'll start seeing numbers/a finish line."

Then he goes and says "a few more weeks" to know how many animations are left? Not "a few more weeks" until they're all done or something to that effect? Like, nah bro it's cool. I'm gonna like it. We're all gonna like it. Just release the thing. We all appreciate your passion but I don't think most people are going to care about fucking in zero-g or something crazy technical about the animations when we've got to be alone with Zoey for half of the episode anyway.

I've been going back and forth on ranting but I just think I want it to be said. I'll behave now.

 

[ename144]

The conversation no longer has to happen onscreen because of the interlude. Without the interlude the conversation would have happened because of the type of person Fuckface is, he'd have needed the answers, we now know the answers he gets so we don't need to see them. Yes, it would have been boring, which is part of the reason DPC created the interlude imo, he knew it would be boring and would take a big chunk of the playtime of the episode, so he got it out of the way as a standalone mini-episode while also testing out the import mechanics to make sure it was working properly.

As Ilhares said, the one thing BaDIK has made absolutely clear is that the MC is a complete communication null-zone whenever the plot demands it. If we can suffer through "Fuck. Fuck fuck fuck fuck. Fuck" for a poorly executed twist, the MC could roll with the abbreviated version of Zoey's vacation photos.

But more importantly, the Interlude didn't include the (present day) MC in the main action. Zoey's still going to have to explain all of this to him on screen so we can instruct him how to react to the news (unless we're in for a repeat of Episode 4's epic moping session). In the end the Interlude didn't save any time, at best it breaks even and at worst it dilutes the impact by making us play part of the combined sequence several months before we get to the important part.

The Interlude spends a lot of time going over trivial details, but it undersells the important parts (like Zoey's actual character growth). It's big because it's padded yet relies entirely on Episode 9 to make it mean anything. We'd have been far better off with a 5-ish minute montage to start Episode 9 and a few flashbacks when the MC and Zoey finally get together to compare notes. What we lost in volume we would more than make up from a tighter focus (to say nothing of saving development time). Instead of being distracted by a bunch of one-shot characters, we'd get to interact with Zoey as she answers our questions via our MC. Ideally we could also skip the bit about her only coming home because she's broke, too; that would make her a little more sympathetic.