VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[SomboSteel]

I don't really agree with that. Jill has been created as a certain type of character and it's been consistent all along. She's naïve, she's thoughtful and wants to help. She's ultimately good, but often stubborn about it. But she also believes in destiny, signs and all that shit. She's very different to Sage, and the idea that the picnic decision is a big deal to Jill and means fuck all to Sage to me is more acceptable than whoever you don't choose will dump you. That would have been contrived. When you turn Sage down, she gets pissed for about 2 minutes and then she's over it.

You complain that it's not obvious to the character that this decision is quite serious. Do you need a "Spoiler: This decision will eventually end your relationship with Jill down track"? I don't want that kind of shit in the game. That's hand holding for snowflakes. It was clear to me this decision was huge.

When he let Jill down, she took it as a signed and distanced herself. He could have said, let's go later, but the weather changed anyway, and it would have been called off and Jill would have still taken it as a sign, and people would have complained that was contrived too.

The other option to go to the picnic and see Sage afterward (it's not like she wasn't dying) actually was something the mc tried to do, but Sage turned the mc down when he suggested this. DPC fucked this up because no one sees that exchange between the mc and Sage over text message because DPC didn't give us access to the phone after that scene, so we can't see the messaging. It's a legit bug that still hasn't been resolved. This link, the same as the one above, shows the exchange that we don't have access to because of a game bug.

In that scene, you choose the girl you wanna be with. If you're trying to fuck both girls, you're either breaking the prior engagement with Sage who isn't well (but the mc does offer to just visit her later but she blows him off, so actually that's not that bad of an option), or you're turning down an excited, naïve girl (who never takes the initiative with guys but has done so here) who's put together a surprise birthday picnic date.

To expect Jill to go, "Oh Fuckface, you're such a good friend to this other girl, your Chick points resonate with my own Chick persona, and now I love you even more for turning down the impromptu picnic that I just had some servant throw together for us." is to be deluding yourself. She's gonna feel some hurt, and she read more into it than she should have.

I'm sure there was a better way to write all of this, the entire story in fact. But it's been written this way, and it's good enough.

i definitely dont want a GIANT WARNING breaking the 4th wall and letting me know the ramifications of the choice, but there must have been ways to at least partially convey in an organic way how serious the choice was.

have a stupid aside with Bella where Jill confides in her that she will ask MC out on a picnic in the coming days and if things go well it will be the sign she is waiting for to know he just might be "the one". have her let the players know that this means more to her than literally anything else and that if it doesnt work out she will look for love elsewhere.

BAM! i just pulled that out of my ass this second and it makes the choice much less ambiguous and lets the player know that Jill is so unbelievable as a character that this is MC's only chance to seal the deal with her for the rest of literal ETERNITY

the issue is that with how much you interact with Jill after the picnic (whether you go or not) shows through COMMON SENSE that the stars could easily align another day and the picnic or whatever could still be there to give her the opportunity to size up MC and determine where they stand. if you dont choose the picnic and basically never crossed paths with Jill again, it makes perfect sense that it could be a point of no return in the game for that LI path. but you never actually lose LIs from the story, and there is no reason that using COMMON SENSE the MC could just talk to Jill one on one any other time he has dealt with her and they could share their feelings.

it DOESNT MAKE SENSE that Jill (who apparently thinks she might be literal soul mates with MC) doesnt attempt a reschedule herself or at least spill her guts to MC and give him the chance to "fight for her" in her mind. its not a particularly well written sequence of events and i understand why players are annoyed or confused that Jill put all her eggs in this one picnic basket. DPC didnt do a great job of getting information to the player pre-picnic and did a worse job (not) explaining why there was never anything about the missed date brought up ever again. i think the frustration is real due to how forced everything about this story line feels

 

[Geralt From Rivia]

Tell me about it man, I did try but bro i don't and i can't lead Sage on she's too precious to me. But it is awkward since in my canon run i did bang Jade... HOW THE FUCK WAS I SUPPOSE TO KNOW, hell i even thought Tybalt was Jade's & Stephen's biological child(Tybalt's blonde more like dirty blond hair, skin tone and shit, mostly the entitlement) but it turns out he's not.

Can't wait to find out what unfolds in my canon run.

DPC wants you to be punished for your sins. It's classic for him. I remembering how i get worst Acting Lessons ending possible, because my MC banged everything that moves.

 

[toobextra]

DPC wants you to be punished for your sins. It's classic for him. I remembering how i get worst Acting Lessons ending possible, because my MC banged everything that moves.

On canon run in Acting Lessons my MC ended up with Melissa. Set my man Liam up with Rena.

Though AL still gives me nightmares.

 

[Raziel_8]

Based. No game without Sage, i see you are a man of culture.

Obvious, a run without Sage and Nicole is just lacking

So what happens, no Neutral? This is strange because I have two successfully completed Jill routes on Neutral.
But for her to reject me, I must be CHICK. There is also an alternative opinion above - there should be no other girls besides Jill.

If you're a Chick or neutral and do everything right but don't go to the picnic, she'll reject you.

Yes but only if you reject all other main LI's, otherwise Jill is not a choice and she won't reject the MC, you just lose her path without any notification.

 

[SolarWindCatcher]

Just skip all the female drama and dick yourself some Derek

at least there are honest working girls Sarah and Mel who always charge MC for sex and don't fuck his brains much
Damn I forget about Camila, probably best of working girls as she often fucks with MC for free and doesn't try to get into his brain

 

[Wizard_Shiryuu]

On canon run in Acting Lessons my MC ended up with Melissa. Set my man Liam up with Rena.

Though AL still gives me nightmares.

View attachment 2307561

Read the literal second post of this thread

 

[shazba]

i definitely dont want a GIANT WARNING breaking the 4th wall and letting me know the ramifications of the choice, but there must have been ways to at least partially convey in an organic way how serious the choice was.

have a stupid aside with Bella where Jill confides in her that she will ask MC out on a picnic in the coming days and if things go well it will be the sign she is waiting for to know he just might be "the one". have her let the players know that this means more to her than literally anything else and that if it doesnt work out she will look for love elsewhere.

BAM! i just pulled that out of my ass this second and it makes the choice much less ambiguous and lets the player know that Jill is so unbelievable as a character that this is MC's only chance to seal the deal with her for the rest of literal ETERNITY

the issue is that with how much you interact with Jill after the picnic (whether you go or not) shows through COMMON SENSE that the stars could easily align another day and the picnic or whatever could still be there to give her the opportunity to size up MC and determine where they stand. if you dont choose the picnic and basically never crossed paths with Jill again, it makes perfect sense that it could be a point of no return in the game for that LI path. but you never actually lose LIs from the story, and there is no reason that using COMMON SENSE the MC could just talk to Jill one on one any other time he has dealt with her and they could share their feelings.

it DOESNT MAKE SENSE that Jill (who apparently thinks she might be literal soul mates with MC) doesnt attempt a reschedule herself or at least spill her guts to MC and give him the chance to "fight for her" in her mind. its not a particularly well written sequence of events and i understand why players are annoyed or confused that Jill put all her eggs in this one picnic basket. DPC didnt do a great job of getting information to the player pre-picnic and did a worse job (not) explaining why there was never anything about the missed date brought up ever again. i think the frustration is real due to how forced everything about this story line feels

Regarding whether we get another shot at any of the main LIs, we don't know for certain if it's truly over yet. I mean Sage suddenly became an option after 6 episodes of rejecting her, so it's hard to tell how final things are at this point. There are still hints at a solo route with at least Josy (not sure about Maya).

So maybe things can be patched up with Jill...

The problem (and it's a good problem in my mind) is the girls don't all follow a formula. They don't feel like they have progression counters. They each have their own arbitrary criteria and potential. With Bella and Jill's routes it feels like reject once and it's over, but then Sage can handle multiple rejections and still come out on top, and then Josy is still pining for the mc after she and Maya did the rejecting.

I like that because it's unique. So many games in this genre are too obvious. And maybe that's what a lot of players prefer, a clear route and progression. But I prefer the applecart to be turned over. I like things happening that I didn't expect but are still plausible, and I like games that don't come across procedural or formulaic.

When the mc ran down to help Jill with her final date with Tybalt and profess his love for her, and she shot him down in flames, I was like, "You fucking cunt!" And I loved that turn of events. It wasn't what I wanted to happen right then and there, but I loved it for how I didn't see it coming, even though it was clear that Jill was cooling off on him (she didn't correct Derek's assertion that they "used" to date, and she told Josy there was this guy she "thought" she liked).

I enjoy this game for what it is. Twists and turns, lots of drama, hilarious nonsense, sexy girls, and well scripted dialogue. It's great escapism, and it's so much better than the rest out there. There are a few good ones emerging, so hopefully DPC gets knocked of his perch by someone even better soon, but I just don't get the difficulty people have with simply accepting the events as they pan out.

That's why the antagonist in AL didn't bother me as much as it did others who felt it came out of nowhere. It didn't come out of nowhere. The character was off from the beginning (I chalked it up to porn game behaviour at first, so I was still blindsided when it went down). And the "big decision" in that game, he could improve on the execution (had the mc struggle to save both and had him weaken due to smoke inhalation and ultimately have to make the same decision), but the outcome was very impactful. People went berserk at him because they didn't want that. Personally I lost interest in the game after that, but that was due to the mc's reaction, not the events themselves.

Mind you, if Vinny just came in and started shooting people, I'm not gonna defend that. It would be wrong for the story.

But back to Jill. No matter how anyone looks at it, how they want to logically look at the way a Chick Jill should have understood the Chick mc's Chick behaviour when he looked after a sick friend. You turn a girl down in a budding relationship who has prepared a picnic for you on your birthday with hopes to give you a lovely surprise. You turn that girl down, and you don't think it's a big deal...

Yes but only if you reject all other main LI's, otherwise Jill is not a choice and she won't reject the MC, you just lose her path without any notification.

That's not true. This is from an unmodded game:

Spoiler: You just can't choose Others

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[toobextra]

Read the literal second post of this thread

Yeah that's the context i based this meme on. At least... I hope he's joking.

 

[skc0110]

So this my setup for the first Party-Minigame:
View attachment 2307253
Any suggestions, criteria, improvement advices or any something? I try to min-max it.
So i feel it is intended to decide, weather you want Leon to have 2 Dudes or JB to have enough Trashcans, i may not be misleaded by that expression. Please proof me wrong?

Here is my setup with this setup of diks:

 

[Jericho85]

Regarding whether we get another shot at any of the main LIs, we don't know for certain if it's truly over yet. I mean Sage suddenly became an option after 6 episodes of rejecting her, so it's hard to tell how final things are at this point. There are still hints at a solo route with at least Josy (not sure about Maya).

So maybe things can be patched up with Jill...

The problem (and it's a good problem in my mind) is the girls don't all follow a formula. They don't feel like they have progression counters. They each have their own arbitrary criteria and potential. With Bella and Jill's routes it feels like reject once and it's over, but then Sage can handle multiple rejections and still come out on top, and then Josy is still pining for the mc after she and Maya did the rejecting.

I like that because it's unique. So many games in this genre are too obvious. And maybe that's what a lot of players prefer, a clear route and progression. But I prefer the applecart to be turned over. I like things happening that I didn't expect but are still plausible, and I like games that don't come across procedural or formulaic.

When the mc ran down to help Jill with her final date with Tybalt and profess his love for her, and she shot him down in flames, I was like, "You fucking cunt!" And I loved that turn of events. It wasn't what I wanted to happen right then and there, but I loved it for how I didn't see it coming, even though it was clear that Jill was cooling off on him (she didn't correct Derek's assertion that they "used" to date, and she told Josy there was this guy she "thought" she liked).

I enjoy this game for what it is. Twists and turns, lots of drama, hilarious nonsense, sexy girls, and well scripted dialogue. It's great escapism, and it's so much better than the rest out there. There are a few good ones emerging, so hopefully DPC gets knocked of his perch by someone even better soon, but I just don't get the difficulty people have with simply accepting the events as they pan out.

That's why the antagonist in AL didn't bother me as much as it did others who felt it came out of nowhere. It didn't come out of nowhere. The character was off from the beginning (I chalked it up to porn game behaviour at first, so I was still blindsided when it went down). And the "big decision" in that game, he could improve on the execution (had the mc struggle to save both and had him weaken due to smoke inhalation and ultimately have to make the same decision), but the outcome was very impactful. People went berserk at him because they didn't want that. Personally I lost interest in the game after that, but that was due to the mc's reaction, not the events themselves.

Mind you, if Vinny just came in and started shooting people, I'm not gonna defend that. It would be wrong for the story.

But back to Jill. No matter how anyone looks at it, how they want to logically look at the way a Chick Jill should have understood the Chick mc's Chick behaviour when he looked after a sick friend. You turn a girl down in a budding relationship who has prepared a picnic for you on your birthday with hopes to give you a lovely surprise. You turn that girl down, and you don't think it's a big deal...


That's not true. This is from an unmodded game:

Spoiler: You just can't choose Others

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

I would really love for there to be a re-entry on Jill Rejection path, but sadly I don't think that's going to happen. I kind of liked the dialogue with Masked girl on that path where he showed that he's still hung up on her. It doesn't seem all that common in VNs where the MC gets rejected by an LI, and he actually feels shitty after the breakup.

Though when Jill looks at the picture of MC at the end of EP9 then cuts it up, I think it means that's the end of the road. Notably the only two times when she doesn't cut the picture are on the main Jill branch and the angry jill branch. I think those are the only two branches where the Jill romance continues with or without the extra spice.

As far as Acting Lessons:

Spoiler

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[roupe]

So just to confirm for Bella, Jill, Josy and Maya I need to have a Neutral/Chick affinity (from major choices) or do I need a Neutral/Chick path (from normal actions)?

And how much will kicking the jocks out of the party affect the future of the game?

 

[Jayfcsp]

On canon run in Acting Lessons my MC ended up with Melissa. Set my man Liam up with Rena.

Though AL still gives me nightmares.

View attachment 2307561

For me it does not matter which one to pick, Rena is the best anyway.

 

[felicemastronzo]

But back to Jill. No matter how anyone looks at it, how they want to logically look at the way a Chick Jill should have understood the Chick mc's Chick behaviour when he looked after a sick friend. You turn a girl down in a budding relationship who has prepared a picnic for you on your birthday with hopes to give you a lovely surprise. You turn that girl down, and you don't think it's a big deal...

one measure of how well this storyline worked on Jill is the success of Bianca. the reaction was to want to betray her with her best friend in the hopes of getting caught. which is also a pretty fallacious project given how it went with Bella...

because the point of a storyline should be that I think, to make a character more interesting and possibly more "palatable" (given the type of game). from my point of view it failed in both

however it did make Bianca more interesting and maybe Amelia too (Lana was careful to be buried deep enough), could this be DPC's goal?

Yes but only if you reject all other main LI's, otherwise Jill is not a choice and she won't reject the MC, you just lose her path without any notification.

no, the only difference is that Jill, like Maya and Josy, automatically close 'Others'.

 

[Roundell]

I just think Maya gets a hard brief from the guys on this forum.

Because her whole story is a cliché already seen in a thousand of movies, TV shows and even videogames. The gay oppressed by "heteropatriarchy" and conservative people. And that kind of story have a sense and a value in the 50´s when gay people was really oppressed and ridiculed, but not now. In the 2020's and IRL in western countries, is even the opposite. I'm tired of that kind of stories in media, the way Josy and her interact is corny and cheesy as hell, and she doesn't face her problems, just whines and wait that somebody (MC, Sage, Jill) solves for her. So I can't relate with Maya's problems or feel sympathy for her character just because she's gay (or bi, it doesn't matter, her problems are because she's gay), because she's a bad character with a bad story. Right now, it's the opposite. DPC has made her father such an evil character, such a perfect villain, that I'm in Maya's father's team

 

[rannmiumec]

So I can't relate with Maya's problems or feel sympathy for her character just because she's gay

Sure, because you need to have the same sexuality, race, gender, and everything else as someone else to have sympathy for that person, like it's not that the key of sympathy is feeling for someone else even if you don't understand and/or share their situation completely

that I'm in Maya's father's team

 

[dalli_x]

i always liked Josy over Maya from the my very first playthrough and played as a DIK affinity that time, and was shocked as Josy and Maya reject the MC during the big talk. so i restarted and played to neutral affinity to keep on the Josy Maya path with hopes that at some point Josy would leave Maya for the MC. she is definately way more adventurous than Maya and more appealing since Maya is letting her dad dictate her lifestyle. to me the DIK MC should have a little talk with her dad, and beat his ass.

It's nice, though, because Maya starts rebelling against her father in EP9 and joins the HOTs.

 

[Roundell]

So far, most of the subplots and branches are somehow related, but it seems that from now on, those branches are going to separate from each other. For example, if you are into Quinn's path, it seems that in the next episode you will be her bodyguard in one of her visits to Buddy, and going get involved directly into her business, and maybe know more about Vinnie, but if you are not, you won't know about that subplot. If you are into Jill's path, probably you will know more about the link between Lynette and the Royces, but if you are not into Jill's path, you'll never go to that picnic and get the photo of Jill with her family's house behind. If you are into Bella's path, at some point you will know what happened with her husband, and probably met him and have a confrontation, but it doesn't seem probable that is going to happen if you are into "other's" path, for example.

Do you think that at the end we'll get all the answers in a single gameplay? Or it will be like different games according the path you follow? For instance, if you are into Quinn's path, you'll know about her subplot and will get an ending according with that, but you'll never know all details of Jill's subplot, since both paths are not compatible.

I think that wouldn't be bad. It would make more interesting to replay the game and get all the answers, and probably those subplots would be better if they were independent stories just loosely connected. It's really difficult to write a story like this one and at the end make that every piece of the puzzle fits together and I'm afraid that DPC is not so good as writer and would try to make them fit with a hammer.

 

[aquaweeda]

Thanks for this, will enjoy

 

[Lurcher1]

On canon run in Acting Lessons my MC ended up with Melissa. Set my man Liam up with Rena.

Though AL still gives me nightmares.

View attachment 2307561

Finally played AL to completion the other day.

Man...

 

[tg]

So far, most of the subplots and branches are somehow related, but it seems that from now on, those branches are going to separate from each other. For example, if you are into Quinn's path, it seems that in the next episode you will be her bodyguard in one of her visits to Buddy, and going get involved directly into her business, and maybe know more about Vinnie, but if you are not, you won't know about that subplot. If you are into Jill's path, probably you will know more about the link between Lynette and the Royces, but if you are not into Jill's path, you'll never go to that picnic and get the photo of Jill with her family's house behind. If you are into Bella's path, at some point you will know what happened with her husband, and probably met him and have a confrontation, but it doesn't seem probable that is going to happen if you are into "other's" path, for example.

Do you think that at the end we'll get all the answers in a single gameplay? Or it will be like different games according the path you follow? For instance, if you are into Quinn's path, you'll know about her subplot and will get an ending according with that, but you'll never know all details of Jill's subplot, since both paths are not compatible.

I think that wouldn't be bad. It would make more interesting to replay the game and get all the answers, and probably those subplots would be better if they were independent stories just loosely connected. It's really difficult to write a story like this one and at the end make that every piece of the puzzle fits together and I'm afraid that DPC is not so good as writer and would try to make them fit with a hammer.

Well, it's just like you get advice from Josy about /how you should invest your money/, if you're with her and Maya, and you carry that with you, even if you depart from them to be with Jill. If you dont get with them, you miss out on getting that helpful advice.

And, I think if you're with Quinn, you'll probably be forced to use that money on drug deals or whatever. You'll make money that way, but it's risky. You'll make money if you're with Jill for certain (investing in stocks). I wonder though, if you should keep that stuff with Michael under wraps in order to that that nice investment advice, or not?

Coming back to what you're saying, each path as a little something. You can't expect to learn everything about Jill (and your own mom-level history), if you're with Sage. But, even then, they're all going to remain friends that chat. I'm sure you can get by with one girl, but to get the whole story of the different paths, you obviously need to play them. I think DPC is restricting things that way pretty severely.