Kpyna

Active Member
Dec 16, 2022
616
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Yeah. In theory, everything is customizable because, even when you can't do it in Daz, you can go to another software (like Blender for meshes and Photoshop for textures), but some customizations are easier than others. Don't think, though, that using only dials is always an easy way out. For characters, for instance, if you just want to change a minor detail, it'll be easy, but creating an entire new character with dials to the point people will recognize it as custom (that is, "never seen before") and also looks good it's something that takes a day or more (depending on your perfectionism). Poses are another example -- and, since most of them are made for the base form (the Genesis whatever number), the more your character departs from the base form, the more you have to adjust it (and posing is something you basically only deal with dials -- and it takes a lot of time). And, sometimes, going out of Daz is something that is overhead.

In the case of the firefighter helmet, It's an easy customization (for those who have practice with some photo editor like Photoshop or Gimp) because, as you can see in the promos of the asset, there are many variations, and when you look at the photo of the clay render (without textures) you can see the surface is flat. When there's some relief, one would have to go to a software like Blender to modify it or erase it, but since it doesn't, you just have to create the textures which, in this case, is not even a complex texture, so you just erase the number and add another one (and it doesn't even need to be the same typeface). But I don't think this would be necessary because, unless there's some hidden meaning in the numbers, any number would do. In fact, in scriptwriting theory, the recommendation is to not add any relevant detail unless it means to the movie (or TV show, or novel, or whatever). So the fact he uses the default number is a tell that it means nothing; if he had changed it would either be a tell that it means something or create a red herring which, if it were unintentional, would be a mistake.

On the other hand, in the case of the security guy's uniform, I think it was a mistake because the NYPD badge conveys more information than a mere number, thus it either creates the idea that NYPD has some meaning (which is a little absurd since he's a security guy in a college) or that it was some sloppy design, an oversight. So I agree with you on that matter. But, of course, since, on the whole, DPC is way superior to the vast majority of the other devs, it's excusable (even more when it's something that happened in season 1). And maybe (since he codes a lot and likes to do mini-games) DPC came from a coding background and not a graphic designer background, so he wasn't (at least, back them) acquainted with Photoshop and used to customize materials as he was with coding so changing the badge would be too much without hiring someone... (And, even today, he does little customizations for material or textures; the most notorious one being the HOTs' uniform which, in fact, is just the colors of one of the default materials with the inscription "HoT" from another, with a cyan detail on the side which can be done inside Daz; most of his customizations were like this -- coloring).

We have to keep in mind that, when you do a VN (adult or not) alone, it's like doing a movie or a TV show and you have to be the director, the producer, the screenwriter, the cinematographer, the editor, the sound designer, the costume designer, the architect and props maker, and even an actor by proxy (and, even when you don't create the assets yourself, which is most of the cases, you have at least to select them; something that, when well done, also takes a lot of time). Thus, it's a lot of work and everything you can do to save time is a rational decision. Because, even if customizing the firefighter's helmet would be easy, if you start to do this for every element in the scene, the time spent will add up, and you'll end up spending a month or more just customizing them. So, yeah, in an ideal world, everything would be custom-made like in Hollywood movies, but in the world of AVNs we have to select what matters and let the rest go.
I have a superficial knowledge and generally understand how it all works, bc I had an experience many years ago with 3d max and other similar software. Since DAZ was made with idea and intended to be as simple as possible for user, while allowing users to get as much as possible w/o a need to use any 3rd party software. A lot of environment assets like a books, calendars, newspapers, etc, etc that will look ridiculous if being the same and being too complicated if each such unit would be made as a separate asset... So, adding/replacing text (using TTF), simply adding some surface textures and so on is implied by default. But things (assets) like suits, costumes, clothes, etc usually sold with a limited customizable options. Like color, print options on T-shirt, etc. That's why I assumed that number on firefighter helmet number is quite hardly a customizable part, because there is not a typical TTF used for it, but a complex texture.

And you had confirmed my assumptions, explaining of how customizing would go when it's outside of the DAZ. All this extra work like exporting to Blender, editing textures in photoshop (especially for characters and suits), etc are not that easy and may took a lot of time. The only thing that bother me and makes my eyes spill blood is the very low res textures here and there (most of the time in S1 but that was enough of them in a S2 too), like grass, some wall/wood ones, etc.

Like, you know, there's a girl standing in front of you, with so high skin detailing, where you can see every pores on her skin, and at the same time - behind or near her there is a shitty lowres textrure of wall or door or grass under her legs... It kills immersion immediately as well as overall quality and devalue the whole work on the scene.

That's what should be fixed at first. And after then the default assets and other stuff. Talking about the default assets and their bundled textures, I sometimes wonder, how the DPC being so a perfectionst, allowing such shit to appear even in Season 3, spending so much time on posing, animations (60 fps animations...), etc... but just killing all of immersion periodically with such a shit:

ep9_ending8.jpg

Being zoomed by camera - Low res bottles texture reveals and JPEG artifacts as well, fuck... As well as some of assets look ugly as fuck too, low polygon shit like playing a game from the beginning of 2000s. All this doesn't deserve to be in such game. Ok, ok... don't give him ideas, no, no, stop :HideThePain:

p.s. and speaking about characters and making them look unique, I think the Josy is the best example, since and until now I hadn't seen appropriate 1:1 copy of her in a lot of fan art I had seen so far. So, even using so simple tools and software like DAZ and just morphing 2 different models together can be done in a way which is hard or almost impossible to repeat. I know one guy from reddit which is obsessed with making a 1:1 replicas of most of the characters, and of course Josy became an obstacle for him. But... he managed his model and morphing so close currently, that she looks like DPCs one. I can notice some flaws here and there, but I never seen so close replicas in fanart before.

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ProxyGist

Member
May 8, 2023
479
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And you had confirmed my assumptions, explaining of how customizing would go when it's outside of the DAZ. All this extra work like exporting to Blender, editing textures in photoshop (especially for characters and suits), etc are not that easy and may took a lot of time. The only thing that bother me and makes my eyes spill blood is the very low res textures here and there (most of the time in S1 but that was enough of them in a S2 too), like grass, some wall/wood ones, etc.

Like, you know, there's a girl standing in front of you, with so high skin detailing, where you can see every pores on her skin, and at the same time - behind or near her there is a shitty lowres textrure of wall or door or grass under her legs... It kills immersion immediately as well as overall quality and devalue the whole work on the scene.

That's what should be fixed at first. And after then the default assets and other stuff. Talking about the default assets and their bundled textures, I sometimes wonder, how the DPC being so a perfectionst, allowing such shit to appear even in Season 3, spending so much time on posing, animations (60 fps animations...), etc... but just killing all of immersion periodically with such a shit:
You're right, but probably the answer to your question would take away in the limitations of DAZ as a 3D program.
DAZ is an old and weak program, which is practically not developed. It still lacks such elementary functions as snapping and practically no simulation. DAZ works at the level of 2014-2015.
Most of the assets that are sold in DAZ are assets of professional visualizers who sell their models that they used in their architectural visualization projects. These are good models, with good topology, but probably due to some technical limitation they can't sell models with high quality textures.
I don't know what polycount is in DAZ, but I assume it's pretty low, up to a million polygons. For comparison in Zbrush you can create a model with hundreds of millions of polygons.
What can be done? Probably DPC needs to hire its own 3d modeler who will make models based on its references and texture, preparing for import into DAZ.
But DPC has already shown that graphics is not at the top of his own list of priorities.
 
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JiiEf

Active Member
Aug 1, 2019
651
8,525
This has nothing to do with how long it is. The episode just wasn't that interesting to some and I can imagine why. For me, I feel there was barely any story progress, main girl (the path you choose in ep8) didn't really get the scenes I was hoping for (I hoped we would get to share the news among dik brothers and possibly to others and see their reactions; only Jill got to tell her friends), and idk, just one big party wasn't that interesting to me. But, ofc, that doesn't mean episode is bad, it's still good and I love the party mini game.
it’s definitely a setup episode. It sets up a friendship with some sexual undertones between all the mgs. Means that there’s going to be a more convincing reason for all the mgs to be in the same place at the same time, making dev easier when you don’t need different locations. I mean, I think we can now expect wll the mgs to be at Bella’s xmas party…

It sets up the camera, probably related to Cathy’s pic, it sets up Vinny as a major antagonist to the MC, it sets up Zoey becoming a BR student. I’m probably forgetting most!

The lack of ”progress” was due to the introduction of a multitude of new story elements.
 

Kpyna

Active Member
Dec 16, 2022
616
2,108
You're right, but probably the answer to your question would take away in the limitations of DAZ as a 3D program.
DAZ is an old and weak program, which is practically not developed. It still lacks such elementary functions as snapping and practically no simulation. DAZ works at the level of 2014-2015.
Most of the assets that are sold in DAZ are assets of professional visualizers who sell their models that they used in their architectural visualization projects. These are good models, with good topology, but probably due to some technical limitation they can't sell models with high quality textures.
I don't know what polycount is in DAZ, but I assume it's pretty low, up to a million polygons. For comparison in Zbrush you can create a model with hundreds of millions of polygons.
What can be done? Probably DPC needs to hire its own 3d modeler who will make models based on its references and texture, preparing for import into DAZ.
But DPC has already shown that graphics is not at the top of his own list of priorities.
Yeah, I heard that before about DAZ. Anyway, I think DPC found the golden mean. Between quality, content amount and what he is capable of or not while he is working alone. He provides largest updates than most or almost all competitors and quality/quantity is at the decent levels and balance. If you ask me, I would prefer the 5k+ renders updates with current quality and flaws than 2-2.5k with fixes and insane perfectionism in each of them. And talking about Badik - the game itself is the most complex comparing to others in genre at least in RenPy class and engine. I mean plot decency, tracking the past choices, branching, free-roams, mini-games and so on. And we are only turned a bit past the middle of whole planned game.
 
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DivineMachine

Newbie
Dec 6, 2022
33
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it’s definitely a setup episode. It sets up a friendship with some sexual undertones between all the mgs. Means that there’s going to be a more convincing reason for all the mgs to be in the same place at the same time, making dev easier when you don’t need different locations. I mean, I think we can now expect wll the mgs to be at Bella’s xmas party…

It sets up the camera, probably related to Cathy’s pic, it sets up Vinny as a major antagonist to the MC, it sets up Zoey becoming a BR student. I’m probably forgetting most!

The lack of ”progress” was due to the introduction of a multitude of new story elements.
Yeah, interlude was already a setup episode, that's why I expected ep9 to actually move story forward. For Zoey and Vinny it was pretty obvious even before this episode, that they will play bigger part. Zoey got interlude all to her self after all and Vinny was obvious to appear more since Quinn's storyline is going forward. So, yeah, technically biggest episode so far, but story went no where basically. Well, anyway, I have high hopes for ep10.
 

Tadpol

Member
Mar 22, 2021
359
535
What I’m waiting for is when the MC finally tells Sage about Quinn’s criminal enterprise… only to find out she already knows everything, but she’s doing as Rusty does with Tommy’s drug use and whoring, and staying out of it. That’ll break his brain even more than finding out who her family is.
Good point, I hadn't made the analogy between Quinn and Tommy in relation to their respective presidents.

On the prostitution part, we lack different points of view. We don't know everything. How it started, when, where the money goes, and so on.

Between a "fairy tale" version where the girls all agree 100% with no strings attached, and get 100% of the money; and a nightmare version where Quinn forces them all to work and takes almost all the money, there must be a version in between.

For example, some of the HOTs have decided to do it themselves, with a few rules to keep it discreet, and totally optional for sorority members. Rules that Quinn would have partly broken, such as proposing it to candidates (who might therefore feel compelled to accept in order to become HOT, hence the rumored paid tuition), or involving Mr. Burke in some way.


I don't think so. The ending of ep9 implies that Quinn is on a path of redemption and making amends. Her flashback speaks directly to that.
In it, her father tells her to look at her friends as pawns to be sacrificed. But that's when Quinn apologizes to Tommy for the first time in the entire game.
With that act, DPС draws a line under Quinn's character. Now Quinn will stop being a manipulative bitch and start to value the people closest to her.
This passage left me totally undecided.

To me, it means as much what you wrote, as the opposite. Namely, that she needs a pawn because Vinny is causing trouble, and so she makes amends to Tommy out of self-interest and not because she's sincerely sorry for her behavior.

If I had to decide, I'd say she's only sincere to the MC. If she has to throw Rio or Tommy under the bus to save herself, she will, but if she has a relationship with the MC, she won't use him (not as a pawn, anyway). It's also because I think it would be a waste for a character like Quinn to go totally into redemption mode and throw herself on the grenade to save everyone.
 
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doovel

Newbie
Nov 13, 2023
82
110
I have a superficial knowledge and generally understand how it all works, bc I had an experience many years ago with 3d max and other similar software. Since DAZ was made with idea and intended to be as simple as possible for user, while allowing users to get as much as possible w/o a need to use any 3rd party software. A lot of environment assets like a books, calendars, newspapers, etc, etc that will look ridiculous if being the same and being too complicated if each such unit would be made as a separate asset... So, adding/replacing text (using TTF), simply adding some surface textures and so on is implied by default. But things (assets) like suits, costumes, clothes, etc usually sold with a limited customizable options. Like color, print options on T-shirt, etc. That's why I assumed that number on firefighter helmet number is quite hardly a customizable part, because there is not a typical TTF used for it, but a complex texture.

And you had confirmed my assumptions, explaining of how customizing would go when it's outside of the DAZ. All this extra work like exporting to Blender, editing textures in photoshop (especially for characters and suits), etc are not that easy and may took a lot of time. The only thing that bother me and makes my eyes spill blood is the very low res textures here and there (most of the time in S1 but that was enough of them in a S2 too), like grass, some wall/wood ones, etc.

Like, you know, there's a girl standing in front of you, with so high skin detailing, where you can see every pores on her skin, and at the same time - behind or near her there is a shitty lowres textrure of wall or door or grass under her legs... It kills immersion immediately as well as overall quality and devalue the whole work on the scene.

That's what should be fixed at first. And after then the default assets and other stuff. Talking about the default assets and their bundled textures, I sometimes wonder, how the DPC being so a perfectionst, allowing such shit to appear even in Season 3, spending so much time on posing, animations (60 fps animations...), etc... but just killing all of immersion periodically with such a shit:

View attachment 3086823

Being zoomed by camera - Low res bottles texture reveals and JPEG artifacts as well, fuck... As well as some of assets look ugly as fuck too, low polygon shit like playing a game from the beginning of 2000s. All this doesn't deserve to be in such game. Ok, ok... don't give him ideas, no, no, stop :HideThePain:

p.s. and speaking about characters and making them look unique, I think the Josy is the best example, since and until now I hadn't seen appropriate 1:1 copy of her in a lot of fan art I had seen so far. So, even using so simple tools and software like DAZ and just morphing 2 different models together can be done in a way which is hard or almost impossible to repeat. I know one guy from reddit which is obsessed with making a 1:1 replicas of most of the characters, and of course Josy became an obstacle for him. But... he managed his model and morphing so close currently, that she looks like DPCs one. I can notice some flaws here and there, but I never seen so close replicas in fanart before.

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Most of that wouldn’t stand out so much if you weren’t looking at a still. which is the draw back with a visual novel.

honestly if DPC is going to up the textures I hope he does it when releasing the full game on steam or something. The final polish before it goes out to the big public.
 

robin312

Member
Jul 6, 2023
371
823
If I had to decide, I'd say she's only sincere to the MC. If she has to throw Rio or Tommy under the bus to save herself, she will, but if she has a relationship with the MC, she won't use him (not as a pawn, anyway). It's also because I think it would be a waste for a character like Quinn to go totally into redemption mode and throw herself on the grenade to save everyone.
Quinn didn't do anything to think that she wouldn't sacrifice anyone in the time of need
I think you both are too optimistic
 

doovel

Newbie
Nov 13, 2023
82
110
Yeah, I heard that before about DAZ. Anyway, I think DPC found the golden mean. Between quality, content amount and what he is capable of or not while he is working alone. He provides largest updates than most or almost all competitors and quality/quantity is at the decent levels and balance. If you ask me, I would prefer the 5k+ renders updates with current quality and flaws than 2-2.5k with fixes and insane perfectionism in each of them. And talking about Badik - the game itself is the most complex comparing to others in genre at least in RenPy class and engine. I mean plot decency, tracking the past choices, branching, free-roams, mini-games and so on. And we are only turned a bit past the middle of whole planned game.
Daz is what you use to setup scenes, iray which is made by Nvidia (see ) is what is used as the rendering engine. That isn’t 2014-2015 tech. Daz is certainly old and in need of a revamp like Blender got, however the potential render quality doesn’t suffer all that much all things considered.

Daz certainly has issues:
- Crashes quite often
- Limited in tools when compared to any other professional 3D tool and Blender
- Loads of assets in the store that are of much lower quality
- Poor bridge software, making it hard to export and import assets from and to other 3D tools
- Shitty hotkeys
- Shitty viewport tools
- UI looks like it was made in 2005

It is however still the easiest tool to make a 3d scene with a wide variety of prepared assets in. that and the Daz store are the primary reason it is so popular.
 
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