VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[iamcomming]

Slight derailment, but wanted to quickly comment on this. Having known people in consensual non-monogamous relationships, my perspective is that Tommy is just as much a cheater.

In all of the cases you listed, what makes the act immoral is not explicitly that they slept with other people, but that they broke the implicit/explicit agreement of their relationship. For the "real cheaters" you listed, there was an expectation or agreement of monogamy that was broken, and the breaking of that agreement is what actually makes it immoral.

As you mentioned, Tommy is in an "open" relationship, but that doesn't imply it's a free-for-all. In fact, there's an explicit agreement that before either partner has sex with someone outside the relationship, they discuss and agree on it. Tommy has broken that agreement multiple times, which is just as much a breach of trust as for the others you listed and demonstrates a lack of respect for his relationship and Heather, especially since he knows it upsets her. This makes him just as much of a "cheater". Worse, unlike many of the others, he doesn't seem to show any remorse for his actions.

If Tommy can't or doesn't want to abide by the terms of his relationship or if he's unhappy in his relationship, he should man up and discuss it with Heather. Either they agree to change their relationship agreement, or they break it off so they can pursue relationships that fit them better.

P.S. Regarding him slapping Heather at the table: there's a fundamental difference between consensual slaps and things like it during sex and the clearly unwanted slaps in that scene. The latter is violence, if not abuse.

what you write, almost totally true
normal relationship rule, dont sleep with other -> if someone do it, will do it in secrect, behind the partners back
Tommy and Heaher relatioship rule, ask with who -> so the only problem, doing it in secrect, behind the partners back
the difference is very big. first case have 2 "sin". second case have 1 "sin"
if you promise to Jojo, you will bring her rose, but you buy only some candy, than you didnt keep your word. it is immoral, it is bad, it is wrong, it is everything but not good.
if you promise to Jojo, you will bring her rose, but you dont meet with her never again, than you "cheat" and betray her. what is more immoral and...
yes, Tommy is an asshole, Heather didnt do anything wrong with him, she dont deserve Tommy breaking the agreement. but i dont understand why is she suprised.
yes, Tommy is an asshole, he didnt even feel sorry for her and try make up or something. but again, Heather knew Tommy, she accepted this relationship. how can she think seriuosly, Tommy will ask or beg for her permission to duck with somebody. it is so naive like Maya or Jill

 

[Edhelharn]

what you write, almost totally true
normal relationship rule, dont sleep with other -> if someone do it, will do it in secrect, behind the partners back
Tommy and Heaher relatioship rule, ask with who -> so the only problem, doing it in secrect, behind the partners back
the difference is very big. first case have 2 "sin". second case have 1 "sin"
if you promise to Jojo, you will bring her rose, but you buy only some candy, than you didnt keep your word. it is immoral, it is bad, it is wrong, it is everything but not good.
if you promise to Jojo, you will bring her rose, but you dont meet with her never again, than you "cheat" and betray her. what is more immoral and...
yes, Tommy is an asshole, Heather didnt do anything wrong with him, she dont deserve Tommy breaking the agreement. but i dont understand why is she suprised.
yes, Tommy is an asshole, he didnt even feel sorry for her and try make up or something. but again, Heather knew Tommy, she accepted this relationship. how can she think seriuosly, Tommy will ask or beg for her permission to duck with somebody. it is so naive like Maya or Jill

Wow wow wow! How did Jill were caught up in the middle of it? She's not naive (DO NOT SEND ME BELLA SAYING IT!) she's more like an angelical being with pureness in her heart (although Tybalt balls might disagree).

 

[iamcomming]

Secret sauce is that we respect each others likes and dislikes, and not wage "holy war" over damn pixels, lol.

i am thinking for a while, but maybe i understand.
so, first i wanted ask, what was disrespectful. because i think nothing. but i got an idea. maybe the opposite word.
i wanted say opposite as red and blau or left and right or up and down. opposite pairs. not that, i am against you. sorry for my poor english.
i only declare war on vinny with holy war casus belli where war goal is taking Rio

 

[ChipLecsap]

Wow wow wow! How did Jill were caught up in the middle of it? She's not naive (DO NOT SEND ME BELLA SAYING IT!)
she's more like an angelical being with pureness in her heart (although Tybalt balls might disagree).

If that is the case, then why she upset when you go help a sick friend ? Not very "Angelical"

 

[Rehwyn]

normal relationship rule, dont sleep with other -> if someone do it, will do it in secrect, behind the partners back
Tommy and Heaher relatioship rule, ask with who -> so the only problem, doing it in secrect, behind the partners back
the difference is very big. first case have 2 "sin". second case have 1 "sin"

On this, we may have to agree to disagree. In my opinion, in both cases it's essentially the exact same breach of agreement and trust.

A way to visualize how I see it is relationship "circles," where the people inside the circle are acceptable for sexual activity. In the monogamous relationships, it's just the two partners. In Tommy and Heather's, it's actually also just the two of them unless and until they discuss allowing someone else from outside (and even then, only temporarily and under the terms they agreed upon). Without that discussion, Tommy and Heather are effectively monogamous too. In both cases, the cheater is having sex with someone outside the circle and breaking the relationship agreement in the process.

 

[DavDR]

On this, we may have to agree to disagree. In my opinion, in both cases it's essentially the exact same breach of agreement and trust.

A way to visualize how I see it is relationship "circles," where the people inside the circle are acceptable for sexual activity. In the monogamous relationships, it's just the two partners. In Tommy and Heather's, it's actually also just the two of them unless and until they discuss allowing someone else from outside (and even then, only temporarily and under the terms they agreed upon). In both cases, the cheater is having sex with someone outside the circle and breaking the relationship agreement in the process.

All of this in depth analysis of the rules for an open relationship are very interesting I guess. But it's only a matter for Tommy and Heather. It's nothing that should concern the MC, or anybody else at B&R.

 

[mostwanted8]

Wow wow wow! How did Jill were caught up in the middle of it? She's not naive (DO NOT SEND ME BELLA SAYING IT!) she's more like an angelical being with pureness in her heart

 

[iamcomming]

Wow wow wow! How did Jill were caught up in the middle of it? She's not naive (DO NOT SEND ME BELLA SAYING IT!) she's more like an angelical being with pureness in her heart (although Tybalt balls might disagree).

hey hey hey, i dont fear from Balla. Jill is naive yes. naive is good trait for Jill and for Heather too. this trait even make Maya a little bit more likeable even with this hair.
tybalt balls deserve what got.
i just dont think being naive is an excuse to dont take responsibility for decision. what is Heather made to being Tommys girlfriend. it was her decision. so i blame Heather because she feels disappointed (and probaly more feelings) and this feeling makes her for revenge. she shouldnt feel it, she should have excepted for it.
Jill took the responsibility for being naive and did 3 horrible date with tybalt. but when she realize true, did she any revenge for it? no, she wanted scold tybalt what should do Heather too. yes, it endid with a kick for balls, but that because he stole her panties and ruined a fruit for her rest of life. that was a moment of heat. what Heather did with Nick was planned by her. and used out poor Nick. Nick probably dont mind it, but still using out.

 

[Rehwyn]

All of this in depth analysis of the rules for an open relationship are very interesting I guess. But it's only a matter for Tommy and Heather. It's nothing that should concern the MC, or anybody else at B&R.

On one hand, I agree. Relationships are private matters, and generally should stay that way unless it rises to the level of abuse or danger, if someone in the relationship reaches out to discuss it, or if perhaps out of genuine concern a close friend expresses that they don't seem happy in their relationship.

That said, the way that someone publicly carries themselves and behaves in a relationship, romantic or otherwise, is a reasonable factor upon which to judge their character. If someone habitually lies and breaks their word, it reflects poorly upon them.

 

[DavDR]

That said, the way that someone publicly carries themselves and behaves in a relationship, romantic or otherwise, is a reasonable factor upon which to judge their character. If someone habitually lies and breaks their word, it reflects poorly upon them.

What like Maya and Josy?

 

[Rehwyn]

i just dont think being naive is an excuse to dont take responsibility for decision. what is Heather made to being Tommys girlfriend. it was her decision. so i blame Heather because she feels disappointed (and probaly more feelings) and this feeling makes her for revenge. she shouldnt feel it, she should have excepted for it.

Not going to lie, this sounds like classic victim blaming to me. Regardless of what she knew about Tommy's character before starting a relationship with him, he agreed to the terms of their relationship.

 

[DarkKiller]

Wow wow wow! How did Jill were caught up in the middle of it? She's not naive (DO NOT SEND ME BELLA SAYING IT!) she's more like an angelical being with pureness in her heart (although Tybalt balls might disagree).

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[iamcomming]

On this, we may have to agree to disagree. In my opinion, in both cases it's essentially the exact same breach of agreement and trust.

A way to visualize how I see it is relationship "circles," where the people inside the circle are acceptable for sexual activity. In the monogamous relationships, it's just the two partners. In Tommy and Heather's, it's actually also just the two of them unless and until they discuss allowing someone else from outside (and even then, only temporarily and under the terms they agreed upon). Without that discussion, Tommy and Heather are effectively monogamous too. In both cases, the cheater is having sex with someone outside the circle and breaking the relationship agreement in the process.

and there is nothing wrong with see your way, even i agree with you about agreement and trust part.
as i see, the agreement is different, doing the same, in one case break the agreement on 1 big and 1 small point. in other case break the agreement on 1 small point.

 

[FelicityLove]

what you write, almost totally true
normal relationship rule, dont sleep with other -> if someone do it, will do it in secrect, behind the partners back
Tommy and Heaher relatioship rule, ask with who -> so the only problem, doing it in secrect, behind the partners back
the difference is very big. first case have 2 "sin". second case have 1 "sin"
if you promise to Jojo, you will bring her rose, but you buy only some candy, than you didnt keep your word. it is immoral, it is bad, it is wrong, it is everything but not good.
if you promise to Jojo, you will bring her rose, but you dont meet with her never again, than you "cheat" and betray her. what is more immoral and...
yes, Tommy is an asshole, Heather didnt do anything wrong with him, she dont deserve Tommy breaking the agreement. but i dont understand why is she suprised.
yes, Tommy is an asshole, he didnt even feel sorry for her and try make up or something. but again, Heather knew Tommy, she accepted this relationship. how can she think seriuosly, Tommy will ask or beg for her permission to duck with somebody. it is so naive like Maya or Jill

You just can't admit you were wrong. lol
YOU made the claim Tommy is allowed to cheat because he's in an open relationship. Keyword "allowed." This statement is simply wrong because of the rule they need to talk to each other before doing something sexual with a different person.

 

[iamcomming]

Not going to lie, this sounds like classic victim blaming to me. Regardless of what she knew about Tommy's character before starting a relationship with him, he agreed to the terms of their relationship.

i am admit it. most of time, i blaming the victim and the aggressor both. the life is not white and black, good and bad.

You just can't admit you were wrong. lol
YOU made the claim Tommy is allowed to cheat because he's in an open relationship. Keyword "allowed." This statement is simply wrong because of the rule they need to talk to each other before doing something sexual with a different person.

ok

 

[Rehwyn]

What like Maya and Josy?

Absolutely, their cheating doesn't reflect well either. One could argue that they both felt their relationship was essentially ending, but it still would have been better to have that discussion and end things if needed before any action with MC.

There are a few things that make it a bit different in my mind, however. At this point in the story (at least on a MJ path, not sure about others), they've both expressed remorse and didn't deny cheating when confronted about it. People make mistakes, and Josy and Maya show they want to improve and move past that. In short, they're on their "redemption arc".

Compare this to Tommy, who at this point is still lying about it, doesn't express remorse, and seems to have no interest in changing his behavior. He's clearly on a downward trajectory and has been for a while. There's maybe a path for redemption there, but he hasn't shown a significant desire to walk it.

 

[ChipLecsap]

Absolutely, their cheating doesn't reflect well either. One could argue that they both felt their relationship was essentially ending, but it still would have been better to have that discussion and end things if needed before any action with MC.

There are a few things that make it a bit different in my mind, however. At this point in the story (at least on a MJ path, not sure about others), they've both expressed remorse and didn't deny cheating when confronted about it. People make mistakes, and Josy and Maya show they want to improve and move past that. In short, they're on their "redemption arc".

Compare this to Tommy, who at this point is still lying about it, doesn't express remorse, and seems to have no interest in changing his behavior. He's clearly on a downward trajectory and has been for a while. There's maybe a path for redemption there, but he hasn't shown a significant desire to walk it.

There is nothing they need redemption , they did nothing wrong.

 

[Edhelharn]

If that is the case, then why she upset when you go help a sick friend ? Not very "Angelical"

Because she loves MC! She never felt that way before to someone and it hurts her that he rather be with another girl when she planned a date with him! Also, who is the psycho that took care of Sage instead of going on a surprise date with Jill???

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[Rehwyn]

There is nothing they need redemption , they did nothing wrong.

Eh, the fact they both feel bad about it and acknowledge it as "cheating" seems to imply there was an expectation of monogamy in their relationship that they broke. It's perhaps easy to empathize with the loneliness and longing for connection they both felt that led them to break that agreement, but it doesn't make it not wrong. Their circumstances and their actions since then do make it very easy to forgive, however.

 

[DavDR]

Because she loves MC! She never felt that way before to someone and it hurts her that he rather be with another girl when she planned a date with him! Also, who is the psycho that took care of Sage instead of going on a surprise date with Jill???

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Poor Jill, with friends like these eh?