Rehwyn

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2024
1,372
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Am I late for the party? Eh, here's my two cents. Just so you know, I'm gonna be defending Tommy here can't believe I've found myself agreeing with Dav :rolleyes:



1. Here I was supposed to be on Tommy's side, but this one is where I mostly agree with you, Geralt. Shooting up hard drugs never leads to a good outcome, m'kay? Although I still wanna point out that it is ultimately Tommy's choice/right to put whatever he wants into his body.

2. Perhaps, but the thing is, he's MC's frat brother. And who is Heather to Fuckface? A nobody. So why would anyone hold against Tommy something, that is a part of his private/personal life? Ain't my business what's going on in that relationship.

3. Ah, here's the juicy part. What is this "secret code" at its core? A seemingly convinient and more than a little arbitrary method to sweep the dirt under a rug that a bunch of dumb college kids came up with in order to protect themselves whenever they fuck somebody they shouldn't have fucked in the first place (or when they do some other dumb shit). Like with Josy, MC knew all too well how Tommy's gonna react to that revelation, and he still didn't end things with Josy (and Maya). He was careless and, if you ask me, inconsiderate of Tommy's feelings. And I'm not even gonna cover the Derek bit, that shit was for laughs and shouldn't even be considered a "violation" of the code.
How did Lily put this? Something like, "aren't codes more like a bunch of guidelines that everyone cherry-picks from?" Hear, hear.

4. He could've handled it better, true. Maybe he could talk to Trem after he calmed down and clearly let him know that Vinny is one crazy son of a bitch. But right after Trem's altercation with Vinny, our Snowflake McFuckface was shaken up so dad he was ready to call the cops. I believe I don't need to remind you of the consequences of that for the whole frat, not just for Tommy.

5. Personally, I'm in the "Tommy cares about Josy more than he lets on" camp, so I would attribute that to his overprotectiveness. I might eat my words later, who knows? But for now, I'll keep being optimistic.

6. Who isn't and wouldn't be jealous of that guy? In a couple of months, he became the most popular guy on campus. That kind of success breeds jealousy even in the most unenvious people. And frankly, MC needs someone to be skeptical of him. We don't want Trem's success to get to his head, do we?


I guess I can relate to him somewhat. He's the guy whose temper and bad habits tend to get the better of him, despite him not being a bad person, really. Let's look at his record so far: did a shitty job as a father? Came around, apologized, and made an effort to make things up with MC. Threw a fit after the mansion was trashed? He calmed down, started doing his part, and found a gig for the DIKs to make some more money. Yelled at Quinn for ruining the evaluation party? He admitted his part of the blame, apologized, and gave Quinn a chance to do the same. And so on, and so forth.

This is a personal thing, but I tend to prefer this particular character trope Tommy embodies so well: Jerk with a heart of gold don't shoot me for being cheesy, that's just how they named the trope on TVTropes!. Cripples, bastards and broken things tend to be the most amusing people for me, both in fiction and IRL.
Suppose I might as well add a few thoughts as well.

2. Regardless of who Heather is to the MC, how Tommy treats anyone that he's in a relationship with is going to influence MC's opinion of his character. To take it to an extreme, imagine if Tommy was routinely physically abusive to Heather. Do you really think that shouldn't influence how MC feels about Tommy's character quality just because he's a "brother" and Heather is someone MC only somewhat knows? A pattern of cheating is a form of emotional abuse; if I was MC, you can bet your ass I'm thinking less of Tommy for doing it, even if I don't get involved or intervene in the relationship since it's a private matter.

3. Regarding Josy and MC's relationship, it would certainly have been more considerate if MC mentioned it to Tommy much earlier on. That's on him, though he did have some extenuating circumstances since 1) he met Josy months before he met Tommy or knew they were related and 2) Maya is involved as well and shit could go bad for her if too much of their relationship goes public. I find it interesting though how for Tommy/Heather's relationship you say it "ain't my business what's going on in that relationship", but for MC/Josy, you imply that they should break up just because it might make Tommy uncomfortable. It feels like there's a bit of a double-standard there just because they're step-siblings, and that you're taking away from Josy's personal agency (and I say this as someone that has a younger sister in real life, with whom I have a much better relationship that Tommy and Josy).

5. It's certainly possible that he's overprotective of Josy. But it's easy for overprotective actions to slip into controlling actions instead. Feeling that MC shouldn't date Josy just because he's a DIK without considering how Josy feels and/or whether or not the relationship is healthy and good for her isn't being protective, it's being controlling. With that said, a conversation could be had to consider how if the relationship goes south, how is that going to impact MC and Tommy living in the same house etc.

Tommy does have some redeeming qualities and occasionally does show that he cares about people. Having mixed qualities like that makes for an interesting character. But with that said, just because you might have a "heart of gold" (and from what I've seen, if he has one, it's pretty underused so far) it doesn't mean you can't also be an asshole. ;)
 
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The Glorious LIME

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Oct 20, 2019
1,770
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Now, I totally disagree with that. Saying your sorry does matter, just like forgiveness matters. In a way, my whole country (the US) was built on the idea of a second chance. That's why I so hate this modern culture of cancelled for ever. I think that's an evil concept.
I agree that saying sorry matters as long as you really mean it and grow from it, but I STRONGLY think that saying sorry and doing the same or similar shit again makes that sorry void and empty. And after a few times, that sorry loses all meaning. So yeah, a second chance is alright but when someone is being the same kind of idiot 3+ times, sorry doesn't cut it, that someone is just an idiot.
 

Roger-a-Dale

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2024
1,152
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On the subject of cheating. To my mind in relationships the unofficial matters a great deal. Marriage is a legal contract and in a divorce things like evidence matter and should, but morally speaking it is not wrong to sleep with someone else when your spouse's actions have already broken the relationship beyond repair. At that point "cheating" is a mere technicality. In the courtroom those technicalities matter, but morality focuses on the spirit of the agreement not the letter. Most relationships in BADIK are of course not marriages, but if you think of them as verbal agreements the moral consideration is pretty much seamless. Breaking the agreement has no legal consequences, but morally the cheating is just as meaningful.

How does this apply to BADIK characters? Let's start with Bella. She has had no contact with her husband in three years and has reason to believe that he is dead. Her actions with the MC being adultery is a technicality. It's debatable if it should even be considered that since if James is alive he has effectively abandoned her. Bella herself feels guilty about it, because she has not fully moved on emotionally, but objectively there is nothing wrong with her actions. At least nothing wrong where James is concerned. Jill on the other hand has some cause to complain. As does anyone else who was led on by MC.

Jade on the other hand is definitely still married to Stephen. Those actions are adultery. It just so happens that Stephen's multiple adulteries across the years reduce Jade's to a legal technicality. Jade definitely isn't innocent in their marriage falling apart, but we don't at this point know how things were before Stephen strayed for the first time. Jade may have been an incredibly bad spouse in other ways. But even if she was, Stephen still let the marriage keep going. If he wanted to keep his morality intact, he should have divorced Jade much sooner. Likewise Jade should have started the divorce process herself. Rather than moving on she uses MC as a means for revenge. She is not good, just better than Stephen.

Sage is also technically in a relationship, if you play the fuck-buddy variant. If you friend-zone her until episode 7, it's not even technically cheating. But even with the fuck-buddy route she doesn't go beyond kissing MC without first getting proof of Chad's cheating. She should have broken up with Chad herself instead of trying to find out who his partner was, but even so all the blame falls onto Chad. The fact that the relationship was a lie to start with makes Sage's "cheating" even less meaningful.

Maya and Josy cheat on each other. Neither knows about the other so it can't be called revenge. They try to make their relationship work anyway, but they both did cheat. However, unlike Jade, Stephen and Chad, their actions are very limited and very much fuelled by circumstance. Neither of them makes it a habit and they regret the little that does happen. The wrongs are forgivable, but their innocence does get a stain. It's not just a mere technicality the way it is with Sage and Bella.

And now the couple who got us onto the subject (this time anyway). Tommy and Heather are in an open relationship. However they do agree on rules. The rules are different from the conventional "no sleeping with other people", but breaking them is still cheating. Heather only cheats on Halloween. She is drunk, very angry, regrets it immediately and later breaks up with Tommy. Not a habit. Tommy? Very much a habit. And he definitely understands that he is cheating open relationship or not. Otherwise he would just tell Heather instead of telling the DIKs not to tell Heather. He could try calling it asking for forgiveness instead of asking for permission, but he tries so hard to avoid letting Heather know at all that it's just straight up cheating. It is also clear that he is simply aware of Heather's temper and wants to avoid the consequences of her finding out. He has no remorse over the deeds themselves.

Lastly there is MC himself. Weirdly enough with him the argument is the other way around. He can fuck around a LOT and technically it isn't cheating. He doesn't even have the verbal agreement level of a relationship with anyone so what he does isn't cheating. Technically. Morally it's still pretty bad, but there are some considerations. He does try to have something more meaningful with at least the main girls, but they all push him to arm's length one way or another. Bella insists that she is a married woman and Sage says they're just fuck-buddies. They change their minds later and so it becomes a matter of when he did it. Threesome with Mona and Camila? That was Hell Week. It's okay. Threesome with Riona and Camila? Not okay. Jill on the other hand gives a lot of signs of wanting a long term relationship. The obstacle is even a consequence of MC's own actions. It's not okay to fuck others just because she isn't ready. Josy and Maya? Well Maya did say no strings attached and Josy didn't voice her disagreement, but is it really okay? Well he isn't actually cheating. Technically.

And on the subject of Tommy being an asshole. It's a matter of default behaviour. Derek is an asshole in Gender Studies, but that is not his default, so he is not an asshole. The "feminist" girls in that class however are definitely assholes. If you treat half the people of the world like shit just because they have penises, you're an asshole. Most of what Tommy does is pretty minor, but his default behaviour with strangers is to be an asshole. The people he is somewhat decent with are the exception, not the rule. He can be quite likeable when you get to know him and show him what lines he shouldn't cross, but he is still an asshole. He is way better than Dawe, but he is an asshole. And if you make certain choices the MC is being an asshole too. And you were an asshole for making him do that. And by "you" I mean "me" in some of my runs.
 

Rehwyn

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2024
1,372
2,242
Now, I totally disagree with that. Saying your sorry does matter, just like forgiveness matters. In a way, my whole country (the US) was built on the idea of a second chance. That's why I so hate this modern culture of cancelled for ever. I think that's an evil concept.
Saying your sorry does matter, I agree. But saying you're sorry and repeating the same behavior over and over demonstrates that your apology lacks sincerity and you view the apology as currency to exchange for bad behavior.
 
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L1m1tl3ss

Active Member
Sep 27, 2023
712
1,897
Now, I totally disagree with that. Saying your sorry does matter, just like forgiveness matters. In a way, my whole country (the US) was built on the idea of a second chance. That's why I so hate this modern culture of cancelled for ever. I think that's an evil concept.
It matters but only if you actually take responsibility for what you did wrong after you say you're sorry. People who repeatedly tell others that they're sorry and that they acknowledge what they did was wrong, then go and do the exact same mistake time and time again without taking accountability for any of it are the worst kinds of people. There are a bunch of people like that who will label themselves as "broken people" only to encourage themselves to keep that up, as if they don't really have much of a choice anyway.
 

DavDR

Engaged Member
Oct 14, 2020
2,031
3,328
Saying your sorry does matter, I agree. But saying you're sorry and repeating the same behavior over and over demonstrates that your apology lacks sincerity and you view the apology as currency to exchange for bad behavior.
It takes some people a few tries to get it right. Look at Robert Downey Jr. He fucked up over and over again until he finally hit rock bottom. Even went to jail. But if he hadn't of been forgiven we would have missed out on all the best of the Marvel movies
 
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BonerM

New Member
Jun 25, 2024
7
18
Is there a way to update the steam version to the current release using these files? Or would I be better off just downloading everything here?
 

Ray_D

Forum Fanatic
Nov 13, 2022
4,681
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I thought the reason why people not like Tommy was already universal revealed. He is the only one in the Diks who not dick ride MC 24/7 about how awesome he is. and Since the player is the MC, Well . . . .
:whistle:
View attachment 3770568
I don't really mind tommy, I can always beat him up and fucking his sister is a win win situation. I'm just waiting for his mother to show up to deliver the final blow. :KEK:
 

ChipLecsap

Conversation Conqueror
Aug 4, 2019
7,552
26,924
Sage is also technically in a relationship, if you play the fuck-buddy variant. If you friend-zone her until episode 7, it's not even technically cheating. But even with the fuck-buddy route she doesn't go beyond kissing MC without first getting proof of Chad's cheating. She should have broken up with Chad herself instead of trying to find out who his partner was, but even so all the blame falls onto Chad. The fact that the relationship was a lie to start with makes Sage's "cheating" even less meaningful.
Hold up just a second, No No No No . What Sage doing is way worse. She has no intention to leave the Guy, and still continue the cheating. Josy and Maya or both made a slip, and more so MC is the one who take the step, in Josy case she did ask if he wants to stay the night sure , and MC accept it. Sage legit starting to Jerk him off, and yeah she tell him the rules, but in the end of the day it is still more assritive move than, what Josy did.
However the key is that Sage continue be in relationship with Chad, and considering herself as being in relationship. and She not break up with him, He does. In fact, if in any case Chad would show intrest in her She would be all over him.

I mean she is no way better moral stand than the other cheaters, Josy , Maya, Jade, Bella.
and yet she still get far less hate for the same actions what Josy and Maya did, that is the double standard of this whole argument. Jojo and Maya get all kind of judgment, but the 2 other main girl , they never get the same treatment.

Yeah that is the Bullshit
 

Rehwyn

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2024
1,372
2,242
It takes some people a few tries to get it right. Look at Robert Downey Jr. He fucked up over and over again until he finally hit rock bottom. Even went to jail. But if he hadn't of been forgiven we would have missed out on all the best of the Marvel movies
And I'm sure he (rightfully) lost a lot of relationships along the way. Sharing forgiveness is a good and admirable quality, but if someone in your life habitually repeats the same bad behaviors that negatively affect you despite multiple chances for change, it's perfectly justified to remove them from your life if you feel it's necessary for your own health and happiness. If they later improve themselves and get there behavior under control, maybe then you might consider extending forgiveness again and re-establishing that connection, but there shouldn't be an expectation that someone must be forgiven either.
 

Ray_D

Forum Fanatic
Nov 13, 2022
4,681
15,237
On the subject of cheating. To my mind in relationships the unofficial matters a great deal. Marriage is a legal contract and in a divorce things like evidence matter and should, but morally speaking it is not wrong to sleep with someone else when your spouse's actions have already broken the relationship beyond repair. At that point "cheating" is a mere technicality. In the courtroom those technicalities matter, but morality focuses on the spirit of the agreement not the letter. Most relationships in BADIK are of course not marriages, but if you think of them as verbal agreements the moral consideration is pretty much seamless. Breaking the agreement has no legal consequences, but morally the cheating is just as meaningful.

How does this apply to BADIK characters? Let's start with Bella. She has had no contact with her husband in three years and has reason to believe that he is dead. Her actions with the MC being adultery is a technicality. It's debatable if it should even be considered that since if James is alive he has effectively abandoned her. Bella herself feels guilty about it, because she has not fully moved on emotionally, but objectively there is nothing wrong with her actions. At least nothing wrong where James is concerned. Jill on the other hand has some cause to complain. As does anyone else who was led on by MC.

Jade on the other hand is definitely still married to Stephen. Those actions are adultery. It just so happens that Stephen's multiple adulteries across the years reduce Jade's to a legal technicality. Jade definitely isn't innocent in their marriage falling apart, but we don't at this point know how things were before Stephen strayed for the first time. Jade may have been an incredibly bad spouse in other ways. But even if she was, Stephen still let the marriage keep going. If he wanted to keep his morality intact, he should have divorced Jade much sooner. Likewise Jade should have started the divorce process herself. Rather than moving on she uses MC as a means for revenge. She is not good, just better than Stephen.

Sage is also technically in a relationship, if you play the fuck-buddy variant. If you friend-zone her until episode 7, it's not even technically cheating. But even with the fuck-buddy route she doesn't go beyond kissing MC without first getting proof of Chad's cheating. She should have broken up with Chad herself instead of trying to find out who his partner was, but even so all the blame falls onto Chad. The fact that the relationship was a lie to start with makes Sage's "cheating" even less meaningful.

Maya and Josy cheat on each other. Neither knows about the other so it can't be called revenge. They try to make their relationship work anyway, but they both did cheat. However, unlike Jade, Stephen and Chad, their actions are very limited and very much fuelled by circumstance. Neither of them makes it a habit and they regret the little that does happen. The wrongs are forgivable, but their innocence does get a stain. It's not just a mere technicality the way it is with Sage and Bella.

And now the couple who got us onto the subject (this time anyway). Tommy and Heather are in an open relationship. However they do agree on rules. The rules are different from the conventional "no sleeping with other people", but breaking them is still cheating. Heather only cheats on Halloween. She is drunk, very angry, regrets it immediately and later breaks up with Tommy. Not a habit. Tommy? Very much a habit. And he definitely understands that he is cheating open relationship or not. Otherwise he would just tell Heather instead of telling the DIKs not to tell Heather. He could try calling it asking for forgiveness instead of asking for permission, but he tries so hard to avoid letting Heather know at all that it's just straight up cheating. It is also clear that he is simply aware of Heather's temper and wants to avoid the consequences of her finding out. He has no remorse over the deeds themselves.

Lastly there is MC himself. Weirdly enough with him the argument is the other way around. He can fuck around a LOT and technically it isn't cheating. He doesn't even have the verbal agreement level of a relationship with anyone so what he does isn't cheating. Technically. Morally it's still pretty bad, but there are some considerations. He does try to have something more meaningful with at least the main girls, but they all push him to arm's length one way or another. Bella insists that she is a married woman and Sage says they're just fuck-buddies. They change their minds later and so it becomes a matter of when he did it. Threesome with Mona and Camila? That was Hell Week. It's okay. Threesome with Riona and Camila? Not okay. Jill on the other hand gives a lot of signs of wanting a long term relationship. The obstacle is even a consequence of MC's own actions. It's not okay to fuck others just because she isn't ready. Josy and Maya? Well Maya did say no strings attached and Josy didn't voice her disagreement, but is it really okay? Well he isn't actually cheating. Technically.

And on the subject of Tommy being an asshole. It's a matter of default behaviour. Derek is an asshole in Gender Studies, but that is not his default, so he is not an asshole. The "feminist" girls in that class however are definitely assholes. If you treat half the people of the world like shit just because they have penises, you're an asshole. Most of what Tommy does is pretty minor, but his default behaviour with strangers is to be an asshole. The people he is somewhat decent with are the exception, not the rule. He can be quite likeable when you get to know him and show him what lines he shouldn't cross, but he is still an asshole. He is way better than Dawe, but he is an asshole. And if you make certain choices the MC is being an asshole too. And you were an asshole for making him do that. And by "you" I mean "me" in some of my runs.
:HideThePain: (y)
20240314_182036.jpg
 

DavDR

Engaged Member
Oct 14, 2020
2,031
3,328
And I'm sure he (rightfully) lost a lot of relationships along the way. Sharing forgiveness is a good and admirable quality, but if someone in your life habitually repeats the same bad behaviors that negatively affect you despite multiple chances for change, it's perfectly justified to remove them from your life if you feel it's necessary for your own health and happiness. If they later improve themselves and get there behavior under control, maybe then you might consider extending forgiveness again and re-establishing that connection, but there shouldn't be an expectation that someone must be forgiven either.
Your confusing forgiving with enabling.
 

Darkwen

Forum Fanatic
Nov 10, 2020
5,783
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Hold up just a second, No No No No . What Sage doing is way worse. She has no intention to leave the Guy, and still continue the cheating. Josy and Maya or both made a slip, and more so MC is the one who take the step, in Josy case she did ask if he wants to stay the night, sure but MC accept it. Sage legit startign to Jerk him off, and yeah tell him the rules, but in the end of the day it is still more assritive move than, what Josy did.
However the key is that Sage continue be in relationship with Chad, and considering yourself as being in relationship. and She not break up with him, He does. In fact, if in any case Chad would show intrest in her She would be all over him.

I mean she is no way better moral stand than the other cheaters, Josy , Maya, Jade, Bella.
and yet she still get far less hate for the same actions what Josy and Maya did, that is the double standard of this whole argument. Jojo and Maya get all kind of judgment, but the 2 other main girl , they never get the same treatment.

Yeah that is the Bullshit
Sounds like Sage can't stand up for herself and it took Chad breaking up with her plus she admits to having fears about messing up there friendship where as Josy is all in the wanting a relationship with MC at least Josy knows what she wants unlike Sage
 

Roger-a-Dale

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2024
1,152
1,710
However the key is that Sage continue be in relationship with Chad, and considering herself as being in relationship. and She not break up with him, He does. In fact, if in any case Chad would show intrest in her She would be all over him.
Care to back up that claim? To me it reads that she just wants to know who the bitch is before she breaks up with him. Effectively the relationship is over. Sage just isn't ready to let go. It would be healthy to do that or at least acknowledge that the relationship is over, but she has every right to be mad.

Chad just pulls the "breaking up with them before they break up with you" move, like the coward he is.

Sage's cheating is just a technicality.
 

BeingADikDik

Engaged Member
Apr 17, 2021
2,416
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Care to back up that claim? To me it reads that she just wants to know who the bitch is before she breaks up with him. Effectively the relationship is over. Sage just isn't ready to let go. It would be healthy to do that or at least acknowledge that the relationship is over, but she has every right to be mad.

Chad just pulls the "breaking up with them before they break up with you" move, like the coward he is.

Sage's cheating is just a technicality.
Nope. Sage tries to kiss Chad and goes ballistic when he refuses and blames steroids. At that point she was not yet decided on breaking up.
 
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