VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[Donettes]

I really hope you are right

I mean that's what game code says so unless DPC changes it in future episodes (almost impossible I'd say because why else set two flags there in the first place?) that's THE choice where you can decide to pursue one or neither of them in friends path

Edit - TL;DR: My point is that, even when we decide to be just friends, we end this chapter suspecting that decission is not being taken into account. Maybe in the future we'll see a clear friendship path thanks to that decision but as for now we don't, and that's not a sign of 'good game-writting'. Some minor variations on the script would have been enough to avoid this frustrating feeling, but they just aren't there

I'd say the "just friends" decision in ep 4 doesn't turn off the MC (not you, the MC) feelings for the girls. Because while you say you don't care about Josy and your previous decisions were based on avoiding her as much as possible, MC does because he has/had a crush on her since they were working together in the minimart. And it's the same with Maya. But as he says in the talk with Derek in the kitchen, "I'm not the kinda guy to break up a happy relationship", so for him (again the MC, not you) the decision of "just friends" means at that moment (ep 4) "I don't want to risk their relationship". Now, it's in ep 5 where you as a player can choose if the MC really wants to be just friends with them or if he has feelings for Josy or Maya.
That's a flaw like you said before and I agree with you on this but that's how DPC has done it

 

[moskyx]

I mean that's what game code says so unless DPC changes it in future episodes (almost impossible I'd say because why else set two flags there in the first place?) that's THE choice where you can decide to pursue one or neither of them in friends path



I'd say the "just friends" decision in ep 4 doesn't turn off the MC (not you, the MC) feelings for the girls. Because while you say you don't care about Josy and your previous decisions were based on avoiding her as much as possible, MC does because he has/had a crush on her since they were working together in the minimart. And it's the same with Maya. But as he says in the talk with Derek in the kitchen, "I'm not the kinda guy to break up a happy relationship", so for him (again the MC, not you) the decision of "just friends" means at that moment (ep 4) "I don't want to risk their relationship". Now, it's in ep 5 where you as a player can choose if the MC really wants to be just friends with them or if he has feelings for Josy or Maya.
That's a flaw like you said before and I agree with you on this but that's how DPC has done it

I honestly didn't remember that choice at the fridge. You are right on this, I agree with this character view, but I would've liked that 'final' decision to be made while confronting them face to face as normal people do, not by talking to Derek. Basically because I already have the chance to do that, I took it and it wasn't what I was expecting then

 

[flippityflop]

The constant lying and half truths while asking to be 100% sincere with her misleading us and making things worse in the process. Not having an initiative to fix her own problems and always doing what she's told to do. Her personality is set and people don't like it, so either you drastically change it or people will continue not to like her.

Ugh... again with the lies.
Fuck it, even so. Have you at least considered it (even a little) that she might have a reason to withhold that information from someone she barely knows? Don't you think that in her situation that would be the sensible thing to do?

And yes, Maya is not exactly a social butterfly. And no, she doesn't take any initiative because she's perpetually terrified of doing the wrong thing and being judged for it, or worse - losing what little comfort and happiness she has.

Not liking someone's traits or quirks is one thing, but judging someone and holding that against them while they're being nothing but nice to you, is just... bad?

 

[Holy Bacchus]

The constant lying and half truths while asking to be 100% sincere with her misleading us and making things worse in the process. Not having an initiative to fix her own problems and always doing what she's told to do. Her personality is set and people don't like it, so either you drastically change it or people will continue not to like her.

She's 18/19, so her personality is certainly not "set" as this is the time of her life when she can really start to change and grow and become a different person, and she's already shown that with the picnic scene where she made a very mature decision all by herself to slow things down and see where this relationship might lead rather than try to force anything just because they feel they have to.

Her earlier behaviour was also that of a defensive person, someone who's been hurt in the past and tries to shield themselves from having it happen again. It was never malicious or duplicitous in any way and it doesn't come from a bad place in terms of being deliberately misleading. It was just her misguided way to try and protect herself and very much the kind of actions you'd expect from someone of that age who still has a lot to learn about how to properly deal with situations like this.

 

[moskyx]

And thats 1 of my gripes with AL's writing, the relationship with Megan was indeed very forced (especially the fact you cannot reject her at any point except for "The C.H.O.I.C.E."). On the on other hand it has been handled better here but not by much. At least you have the choice not to pursue either of them for a relationship and only meet them at places that cannot be avoided. In my friends Sage route i have only ran into them 3 times that made sense and you don't really interact with them that much. As for Quinn, she is indeed my most hated female NPC in the game, for a good reason, her character and writing makes you hate her guts and its a real shame some other better characters are tied to her character arc I chose not to do because of how much I cannot stand her. For Maya's situation i think the way she was written and the things she did that felt a bit out of character in episode 4 made people dislike her greatly.

Btw can anyone upload the walkthrough to mega or something as the link to the files in the OP is broken and the rar files cannot be opened.

So the only way to not feeling 'forced' on the Maya/Josy affair is to neglect them completely. In a game with so much choices, if the script only makes sense by taking the most radical ones and anything in between leads you to feel there's something odd on how characters reacts to them... then it's not that well-written. I get there have to be some main unskippable events but if you can't reach them in what feels a 'natural' way following all available paths, then the game's design is to blame.
I'm repeating myself here. The game is great, technically the best around, but I don't see the narrative masterpiece many people see. Sure if you happen to play one of the main, 'perfect' routes you don't see its flaws, but when you go out of the rails there are several things than don't fit so well. It seems to me it's a little too ambitious for author's current abilities and we'll see how he wraps things together, but sure he has improved a lot since AL and kudos for trying. I mean, 7000 patrons can't be wrong.

 

[Donettes]

I honestly didn't remember that choice at the fridge. You are right on this, I agree with this character view, but I would've liked that 'final' decision to be made while confronting them face to face as normal people do, not by talking to Derek. Basically because I already have the chance to do that, I took it and it wasn't what I was expecting then

I think all of us agree here, the library scene with M&J was very poorly executed. And as it has been said here several times, ep 5 tries to fix that disaster although it is forced to drag some flaws of ep 4, like what you say about not confronting and clarifying everyone's feelings in that discussion in the library if you choose just friends or they reject us. Because in the end Maya/Josy tell you what they really feel when one of them are alone with you, and about what you really feel (or choose to feel), you end up talking to Derek and not to them

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Ugh... again with the lies.
Fuck it, even so. Have you at least considered it (even a little) that she might have a reason to withhold that information from someone she barely knows? Don't you think that in her situation that would be the sensible thing to do?

And yes, Maya is not exactly a social butterfly. And no, she doesn't take any initiative because she's perpetually terrified of doing the wrong thing and being judged for it, or worse - losing what little comfort and happiness she has.

Not liking someone's traits or quirks is one thing, but judging someone and holding that against them while they're being nothing but nice to you, is just... bad?

The 2 most common "arguments":

1. "Maya's a proven liar" - No, she simply didn't feel like sharing a lot about herself with someone she just met, which is a perfectly normal thing.
2. "She wasn't honest about her relationship and lead us on" - Partly, but even if she had been it wouldn't have stopped the MC as we know from how he continued to pursue Josy whilst knowing she was "in a relationship", doing all sorts of things with Sage and agreeing to be FWB knowing she still technically has a boyfriend, and pursuing Bella and Jade despite knowing they are married women.

It oftentimes feels like the anti-Maya/Josy crowd believe that because these characters aren't infallible that it makes them terrible characters and you'd think they were at Leah's level the way some people talk about them. They're teenagers around 18/19 years old and how many people have you known at that age that are emotionally and socially mature enough to be able to handle tough situations the "right" way? They made mistakes, big whoop, it's not like what they did is so horrifically and devastatingly bad that they are not completely irredeemable characters that deserve to be so fiercely disliked.

Also, the MC is not innocent in all of this either and I think people forget that. He's playing with their emotions just as much as they play with his because these are 2 girls who are going through personally difficult times, who are in need of comfort, companionship, and support, and they find it with him. Both of them develop feelings for him and feel like they want to be with him, meanwhile he's humping his way across campus and developing significant romantic relationships with at least 3 other women, all the while leading on both Maya and Josy to believe that they could have a better future with him by letting go of each other to be with him instead. He's also not being honest with them about his relationships with other women, so when all this comes out I'd be surprised if they take it well even after the deal they've just made.

 

[Malicre]

meanwhile he's humping his way across campus and developing significant romantic relationships with at least 3 other women, all the while leading on both Maya and Josy to believe that they could have a better future with him by letting go of each other to be with him instead. He's also not being honest with them about his relationships with other women, so when all this comes out I'd be surprised if they take it well even after the deal they've just made.

This is how the real world works tho. It's called playing the field and literally everyone who dates is doing it. He's interested in a lot of different girls but hes not "exclusive" with anyone, he doesn't have a girlfriend and hell half of these girls don't even want to be his girlfriend so don't come in here with that shit saying hes a serial cheater because anyone who has ever been in the dating scene just knows that's how dating is in this day and age.

TLDR: we aren't living in the 80s anymore, no ones exclusively dating anyone unless you specifically define those rules/boundries when you start having a real relationship.

Name me 1 girl that has actually asked the mc to be her boyfriend and then you would have made your point.

 

[lemonfreak]

This is how the real world works tho. It's called playing the field and literally everyone who dates is doing it. He's interested in a lot of different girls but hes not "exclusive" with anyone, he doesn't have a girlfriend and hell half of these girls don't even want to be his girlfriend so don't come in here with that shit saying hes a serial cheater because anyone who has ever been in the dating scene just knows that's how dating is in this day and age.

TLDR: we aren't living in the 80s anymore, no ones exclusively dating anyone unless you specifically define those rules/boundries when you start having a real relationship.

Name me 1 girl that has actually asked the mc to be her boyfriend and then you would have made your point.

If I understand Bacchus' comment correctly he was criticising the application of the old double standard where men can sleep around and it's fine but women are judged for it. If you have a problem with Maya and/or Josy getting involved with the MC while still involved with each other than you have to have a problem with what he's doing. Alternatively, if his behaviour is acceptable then so is theirs, as is Sage's for that matter (and I get the impression that this is your belief)

 

[Wizard_Shiryuu]

Ugh... again with the lies.

Well, obviously. It's a big thing. Of course is the first thing that will come up.

Fuck it, even so. Have you at least considered it (even a little) that she might have a reason to withhold that information from someone she barely knows? Don't you think that in her situation that would be the sensible thing to do?

Yes. I don't expect anyone who I just met to be 100% honest with me (like she did ask of us, though). I completely understand lying about being in a relationship to not being hit on. However, then she tells us that was a lie, but not the whole truth making us believe she was single. If she wasn't ready to tell us the whole truth she could have just kept on saying she had a boyfriend. Undoing that lie made things worse because then the MC started hitting on her, as she must have known he would do. I still don't understand why she did that if she wasn't ready to tell the truth (except for the sake of more drama, of course).

And yes, Maya is not exactly a social butterfly. And no, she doesn't take any initiative because she's perpetually terrified of doing the wrong thing and being judged for it, or worse - losing what little comfort and happiness she has.

Not liking someone's traits or quirks is one thing, but judging someone and holding that against them while they're being nothing but nice to you, is just... bad?

Maya to me seems a toxic person, but unintentionally toxic, and if you try and save her she can bring you down with her. Anxiety is a bitch, if you don't control it it can make you an eternal procrastinator in your safe bubble. It seems that she's even relying on Josy and the MC to finish the Scavenger Hunt list for her, what would she do if she didn't have either of the two to help her? That seems what Maya is doing. Sure, she's a well spirited girl and I don't want anything bad to happen to her, but why do I have to like her as a LI?

She's 18/19, so her personality is certainly not "set" as this is the time of her life when she can really start to change and grow and become a different person, and she's already shown that with the picnic scene where she made a very mature decision all by herself to slow things down and see where this relationship might lead rather than try to force anything just because they feel they have to.

Her earlier behaviour was also that of a defensive person, someone who's been hurt in the past and tries to shield themselves from having it happen again. It was never malicious or duplicitous in any way and it doesn't come from a bad place in terms of being deliberately misleading. It was just her misguided way to try and protect herself and very much the kind of actions you'd expect from someone of that age who still has a lot to learn about how to properly deal with situations like this.

I meant set as in known, defined within the story, not as final. Of course she can improve.

To me the picnic scene meant another thing, that she doesn't know what she wants. You can't agree to a closed three way relationship one day with your already girlfriend (with whom you had a closed relationship already) and another person and then the following day say "but no strings attached". I put that one on DPC not wanting us to commit too early to anyone and retroactively trying to fix the library scene, but I can't see that as mature, if any it's the opposite.

 

[Malicre]

If I understand Bacchus' comment correctly he was criticising the application of the old double standard where men can sleep around and it's fine but women are judged for it. If you have a problem with Maya and/or Josy getting involved with the MC while still involved with each other than you have to have a problem with what he's doing. Alternatively, if his behaviour is acceptable then so is theirs, as is Sage's for that matter (and I get the impression that this is your belief)

Correct, i have no issue with josey/maya and/or any of the girls having other relationships i just didn't like the whole ordeal because of how it dealt with maya's character progression which basically ended up with her resetting back to 0.

 

[TrainHardnett]

So the only way to not feeling 'forced' on the Maya/Josy affair is to neglect them completely. In a game with so much choices, if the script only makes sense by taking the most radical ones and anything in between leads you to feel there's something odd on how characters reacts to them... then it's not that well-written. I get there have to be some main unskippable events but if you can't reach them in what feels a 'natural' way following all available paths, then the game's design is to blame.
I'm repeating myself here. The game is great, technically the best around, but I don't see the narrative masterpiece many people see. Sure if you happen to play one of the main, 'perfect' routes you don't see its flaws, but when you go out of the rails there are several things than don't fit so well. It seems to me it's a little too ambitious for author's current abilities and we'll see how he wraps things together, but sure he has improved a lot since AL and kudos for trying. I mean, 7000 patrons can't be wrong.

Its not really forced here, granted the developer does write the story with specific choices in mind you might not have picked which need to be improved upon that might give the feeling of a "force" (the magicians term for the illusion of choice). Its not as bad as the example I gave with Megan in the previous game before Being a Dik, now thats a force you have 0 say in. In my opinion the Sage, Jill and Bella routes develop quite naturally, hence why a lot of people like those characters and their development mirrors the path.

It certainly is no masterpiece but it is a lot better then majority of sex games out there. There is an attempt to make a coherent story and fleshing out characters which makes you more attached to them or hating their guts like Quinn.

 

[Alfagrem]

Her family affairs are somewhat based on me being at her house (btw, I didn't want to go, but I was forced to). As a friend (I must insist: this is the relationship DPC has allowed us to choose) I feel I should support her and help her to sort things out because it was just a friendly dinner. But somehow if I care for a female friend it means I love her. And that's a big no in RL and it should be too in a game where you can choose if you want to be a friend or a lover. Then again, if I don't help her with her family issues I got a similar confession but from Maya so the problem is the same: at the end of chapter 5 I'm not really sure if my choice of being just friends does matter or not. Frustrating.

If you paid attention on all your previous interactions with Josy you might of got the sense that her family affairs are messed in general and you form a very, very minor part in them.

Regardless of that you had 2 (forced) dates with her, you kissed her on the first, you are texting each other and she offers you the chance to spend the night with her.

You might think at this stage that if you are uninterested in her then it's probably not wise to encourage her in any way shape or form. Instead you ditch a party/mission to offer her support and when given the choice to go back to the party/mission you instead decide to go back to her dorm, alone.

That you're making your choices because you have nothing but friendly intentions towards her is all fine and good BUT you aren't considering the impact it's having on her feelings or point of view especially as you are trying to descalate from 'more then friends' to 'buddies'.

The 2 most common "arguments":

1. "Maya's a proven liar" - No, she simply didn't feel like sharing a lot about herself with someone she just met, which is a perfectly normal thing.
2. "She wasn't honest about her relationship and lead us on" - Partly, but even if she had been it wouldn't have stopped the MC as we know from how he continued to pursue Josy whilst knowing she was "in a relationship", doing all sorts of things with Sage and agreeing to be FWB knowing she still technically has a boyfriend, and pursuing Bella and Jade despite knowing they are married women.

It oftentimes feels like the anti-Maya/Josy crowd believe that because these characters aren't infallible that it makes them terrible characters and you'd think they were at Leah's level the way some people talk about them. They're teenagers around 18/19 years old and how many people have you known at that age that are emotionally and socially mature enough to be able to handle tough situations the "right" way? They made mistakes, big whoop, it's not like what they did is so horrifically and devastatingly bad that they are not completely irredeemable characters that deserve to be so fiercely disliked.

Also, the MC is not innocent in all of this either and I think people forget that. He's playing with their emotions just as much as they play with his because these are 2 girls who are going through personally difficult times, who are in need of comfort, companionship, and support, and they find it with him. Both of them develop feelings for him and feel like they want to be with him, meanwhile he's humping his way across campus and developing significant romantic relationships with at least 3 other women, all the while leading on both Maya and Josy to believe that they could have a better future with him by letting go of each other to be with him instead. He's also not being honest with them about his relationships with other women, so when all this comes out I'd be surprised if they take it well even after the deal they've just made.

She told us she had a boyfriend

You can understand why she might say this when you look back in hindsight BUT it does compare poorly to the other side of the coin (Josy) being less misleading by using the term "in a relationship"

She then does actually tell us that "she doesn't have a boyfriend" at which point she has the chance to bail out of her initial mistruth but she instead changes her lie to "So guys don't bother me"

Maya's happy to interogate you on masturbation, ask for your complete honesty but never reciproactes at anywhere the same level that you display to her. It's all one-sided.

As for "humping across campus" - Depends on the choices you are making. I got one walkthrough where I've never got past a kiss and even then I'm not normally the one initiating it.

As for being a 'Maya-Hater' - If you like submissive and easily manipulated girls then that's cool but other LI's are stronger and more sure of themselves and personal preference just ranks them higher for me.

Happy ending with Jill

The problem with Jill, and indeed Sage, is that you are entering 3/4 years of college life and they are in the final moments before they move into the real world.

I'm not sure how you would be able to lockdown a longterm relationship with either at this point in time.

 

[Malicre]

The problem with Jill, and indeed Sage, is that you are entering 3/4 years of college life and they are in the final moments before they move into the real world.

I'm not sure how you would be able to lockdown a longterm relationship with either at this point in time.

Lol you aint locking down a relationship with any of the girls for a long time.

 

[Phynix]

I find it odd that whenever someone complains about a character, their defendants bring up (mostly) MC and how he does similar things. Their issue wasn't about any shared flaws, it was about a specific character. They didn't involve others in this so why should you.

In my opinion Maya (or anyone) being young, inexperienced, having troubled past, behaving like real person would or whatever, doesn't make them good/likable. If you dislike any of their traits in real life, you are most likely going to dislike (insert character). So any "counter-arguments" of that kind are pointless.

 

[Dashxp4k]

If you paid attention on all your previous interactions with Josy you might of got the sense that her family affairs are messed in general and you form a very, very minor part in them.

Regardless of that you had 2 (forced) dates with her, you kissed her on the first, you are texting each other and she offers you the chance to spend the night with her.

You might think at this stage that if you are uninterested in her then it's probably not wise to encourage her in any way shape or form. Instead you ditch a party/mission to offer her support and when given the choice to go back to the party/mission you instead decide to go back to her dorm, alone.

That you're making your choices because you have nothing but friendly intentions towards her is all fine and good BUT you aren't considering the impact it's having on her feelings or point of view especially as you are trying to descalate from 'more then friends' to 'buddies'.






She told us she had a boyfriend

You can understand why she might say this when you look back in hindsight BUT it does compare poorly to the other side of the coin (Josy) being less misleading by using the term "in a relationship"

She then does actually tell us that "she doesn't have a boyfriend" at which point she has the chance to bail out of her initial mistruth but she instead changes her lie to "So guys don't bother me"

Maya's happy to interogate you on masturbation, ask for your complete honesty but never reciproactes at anywhere the same level that you display to her. It's all one-sided.

As for "humping across campus" - Depends on the choices you are making. I got one walkthrough where I've never got past a kiss and even then I'm not normally the one initiating it.

As for being a 'Maya-Hater' - If you like submissive and easily manipulated girls then that's cool but other LI's are stronger and more sure of themselves and personal preference just ranks them higher for me.




The problem with Jill, and indeed Sage, is that you are entering 3/4 years of college life and they are in the final moments before they move into the real world.

I'm not sure how you would be able to lockdown a longterm relationship with either at this point in time.

MC will dropout college to be with Jill.

 

[Wizard_Shiryuu]

MC will dropout college to be with Jill.

I doubt the MC would want to live off Jill's money, that doesn't sound like him at all.

 

[Malicre]

Right now Josey and Maya are getting a lot of hate but i believe that's just because those are the only 2 main girls that have had their "drama" arcs and once we get to the Bella/Sage/Jill drama your going to see people change their opinions. You're going to see pages upon pages of hate messages on these forums once the Bella drama starts.

 

[felicemastronzo]

The problem with Jill, and indeed Sage, is that you are entering 3/4 years of college life and they are in the final moments before they move into the real world.

I'm not sure how you would be able to lockdown a longterm relationship with either at this point in time.

I don't think Being a DIK will cover more than a year in college.

so this problem should only touch Sage.

in the end Jill is only in her second year, so she still has time to spend with MC

 

[felicemastronzo]

Right now Josey and Maya are getting a lot of hate but i believe that's just because those are the only 2 main girls that have had their "drama" arcs and once we get to the Bella/Sage/Jill drama your going to see people change their opinions. You're going to see pages upon pages of hate messages on these forums once the Bella drama starts.

I don't think I've ever read any particular criticisms of Josy.

each of the LI's will have its part of drama, in general it is easier to have it with DPC than with an invented character (I blame DPC for how Maya is described ..)

I'm afraid Bella's secret will not be very credible, but for now, even more directly than Josy, she is not encouraging MC. we have to wait