VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[Holy Bacchus]

I'm not sure i like the sounds of completely locking affinity. There's got to be a continued major choice mechanic if its still going then be used in affecting MC options.

But if you're going for full DIK or CHICK runs, would it really matter? This game already requires going along at least 4-5 different routes to get all the content and this wouldn't really change that. There can still be Major Choices that affect something in the game, but the Affinity scale is already at a point where the game can't sustain continued choices that affect it, so this has to change and soon.

Did DPC say it was going away or being frozen somewhere other than the comment you've posted? Because this quote only says something will happen with the DIK scale, without giving any clues about what that may be.

Don't know that he necessarily needs to change it at all. Once you've maxed either CHICK or DIK major choices then making further CHICK/DIK major choices would simply have no impact an Affinity as the MC has already reached peak CHICK/DIKness.

But the fact that these choices won't have an impact once people have wiped out one side makes it superfluous and pointless for those players, so something surely needs to be put in place to give them choices that have an actual impact.

 

[ChipLecsap]

I'm not sure i like the sounds of completely locking affinity. There's got to be a continued major choice mechanic if its still going then be used in affecting MC options.

I won't jump into conclusion yet. The thing is, taking away the freedom of choice suddenly, is not really an appealing idea. You make decisions, and suddenly you are forced to be on that path no matter what?! inable to change, not good. People can change, life is not black and white, something he himself acknowledged. image we have 20 episode, for 6 episode, you can make decisions, and then you are forced to be on that for the rest of the game, for 14 more episode. I don't know, it would feel weird. I think either it's gonna be reset, for example in each semester, or the whole Major Decision, crossroad event will be gone, or will be changed in different way.
but i don't want to jump into conclusion as i said, I would like more information, and not be left in the dark

 

[Anthony11553]

DIk Path is Best Path

 

[lemonfreak]

I won't jump into conclusion yet. The thing is, taking away the freedom of choice suddenly, is not really an appealing idea. You make decisions, and suddenly you are forced to be on that path no matter what?! inable to change, not good. People can change, life is not black and white, something he himself acknowledged. image we have 20 episode, for 6 episode, you can make decisions, and then you are forced to be on that for the rest of the game, for 14 more episode. I don't know, it would feel weird. I think either it's gonna be reset, for example in each semester, or the whole Major Decision, crossroad event will be gone, or will be changed in different way.
but i don't want to jump into conclusion as i said, I would like more information, and not be left in the dark

I prefer to think of it as revealing our MC. If, at the end of the game, your MC finishes at -6 (that would be 6 positions from the left on the Affinity metre) then that's who your MC always was, it's just that these complete strangers didn't get that at first and discovered it over time.

And, while you're right that people can change, that doesn't mean other people will accept that change, or even believe it's real. Let me ask you this, how many good deeds would Jeffrey Dahmer have had to perform before people believed he'd truly reformed? I'm guessing there is no possible number (outside of some very sad women who really need a hug).

Planned 16 episodes, 5 of which we've played through which have covered 2 weeks of the MC's life, this ain't an epic adventure.

DIk Path is Best Path

Unless you want a polyamorous relationship with 2 slamming hotties

 

[Holy Bacchus]

I won't jump into conclusion yet. The thing is, taking away the freedom of choice suddenly, is not really an appealing idea. You make decisions, and suddenly you are forced to be on that path no matter what?! inable to change, not good. People can change, life is not black and white, something he himself acknowledged. image we have 20 episode, for 6 episode, you can make decisions, and then you are forced to be on that for the rest of the game, for 14 more episode. I don't know, it would feel weird. I think either it's gonna be reset, for example in each semester, or the whole Major Decision, crossroad event will be gone, or will be changed in different way.
but i don't want to jump into conclusion as i said, I would like more information, and not be left in the dark

But if you've gone full DIK or CHICK, then you've already made the choice. Even players going on a Neutral path have made their choice and even if there's some content locked behind DIK and CHICK affinity, well then this just means players have to have DIK and CHICK run saves which is what replayability is all about.

 

[Tserriednich'sNen]

I almost forgot about being 2 major choices away from completely depleting one side of the bar on a major DIK/CHICK run. I wonder what DPC planned for when that happens.

 

[moskyx]

I guess we're close to a MAJORMEGAHUGE turning point in story which immediate outcome would be determined by player's current affinity (and might be especially hurtful for those balls deep in the DIK side of the bar). Then we could still make different choices, (even opposite to our affinity) in the aftermath of the event to advance the story in one direction or another

 

[ChipLecsap]

But if you've gone full DIK or CHICK, then you've already made the choice. Even players going on a Neutral path have made their choice and even if there's some content locked behind DIK and CHICK affinity, well then this just means players have to have DIK and CHICK run saves which is what replayability is all about.

The way I see, He just made the whole situation more complicated for himself right from the beginning. He need to provide at least 2 different content ,if we assume, that most of the stuff is also available if you are a neutral guy..
I never liked the system from the beginning anyway. So far the Affinity is restrain you. .

 

[Meushi]

But the fact that these choices won't have an impact once people have wiped out one side makes it superfluous and pointless for those players, so something surely needs to be put in place to give them choices that have an actual impact.

Not really, if you're on a full DIK run you keep picking DIK to avoid dropping to middling DIK/Neutral, exactly as were doing up to that point. If you're not on a maxing run then you keep picking mixed choices to keep the MC in the desired affinity zone. It's like exercise, even at peak fitness got to keep doing it to maintain your level. If want those DIK events got to keep making DIK choices and vice versa.

I agree finite increments on the scale could be a problem given the projected length of the game, as that may cause all runs to converge on max CHICK/NEUTRAL/DIK. A possible solution would be to add more increments to the scale in subsequent seasons, which still wouldn't change this game mechanic, just gives the player extra ammo.

IMO significantly overhauling the main game mechanic 1/3 through would be painful, but until we know what DPC has planned it's not worth speculating about much. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[ChipLecsap]

Not really, if you're on a full DIK run you keep picking DIK to avoid dropping to middling DIK/Neutral, exactly as were doing up to that point. If you're not on a maxing run then you keep picking mixed choices to keep the MC in the desired affinity zone. It's like exercise, even at peak fitness got to keep doing it to maintain your level. If want those DIK events got to keep making DIK choices and vice versa.

I agree finite increments on the scale could be a problem given the projected length of the game, as that may cause all runs to converge on max CHICK/NEUTRAL/DIK. A possible solution would be to add more increments to the scale in subsequent seasons, which still wouldn't change this game mechanic, just gives the player extra ammo.

IMO significantly overhauling the main game mechanic 1/3 through would be painful, but until we know what DPC has planned it's not worth speculating about much. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think the system would have been worked better, if instead, Taking away a scale. The game would have ad a point to you decision. Like in the for example , Mass Effect or KoTOR. if you make 1 paragon, or light side decision, you gain a point, and if you make a Renegade decision, you gain a point on that scale too. whichever you have more , determined who you are, and it's still not luck you out, from major choices. Like for example in Mass Effect, you can have more Renegade point, yet you can still choose, whether you save the council or not in the end of the first game.

in Badik, if You have chick affinity, and Melani and Sara, show up in the shower, you automatically locked out form the option, to be confident in front of them.

and Since he has to create content for each path .... The way he decide to approach this, is more like an illusion of control, rather than actual control.

 

[lemonfreak]

Not really, if you're on a full DIK run you keep picking DIK to avoid dropping to middling DIK/Neutral, exactly as were doing up to that point. If you're not on a maxing run then you keep picking mixed choices to keep the MC in the desired affinity zone. It's like exercise, even at peak fitness got to keep doing it to maintain your level. If want those DIK events got to keep making DIK choices and vice versa.

I agree finite increments on the scale could be a problem given the projected length of the game, as that may cause all runs to converge on max CHICK/NEUTRAL/DIK. A possible solution would be to add more increments to the scale in subsequent seasons, which still wouldn't change this game mechanic, just gives the player extra ammo.

IMO significantly overhauling the main game mechanic 1/3 through would be painful, but until we know what DPC has planned it's not worth speculating about much. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ever hear the phrase, you only get once chance to make a first impression?

With 4 of the 5 LIs (Josy being exception because she was acquainted with the MC before the story began) their initial impression of him prove to be wrong but it takes multiple interations to undo that. How long does it take Bella to think MC isn't a bad seed, how long until Jill doesn't see MC as a wounded puppy, how long until Sage sees MC having value beyond what he can do for her, ditto for Maya.

 

[crabsinthekitchen]

I'm not sure i like the sounds of completely locking affinity. There's got to be a continued major choice mechanic if its still going then be used in affecting MC options.

same, there's enough space on that scale for 5-6 more episodes

 

[ename144]

I felt it was a little bit off in a few respects, most notably with Maya during the picnic scene. Here was a girl who 3 nights ago was seemingly ready to put Josy behind her to be with the MC, 2 nights ago was professing about how she should have let down her guard more with him because he was worth doing that for, but now is basically saying, "I'm cool with the potential risk of losing you by giving you a free pass to fuck other girls". It's an odd switch for someone who seemed to be expresing some very deep feelings for him and wanting to be with him to suddenly being OK with him not being with her. It almost feels like DPC was trying to pump the brakes on the seriousness of this relationship since there are still so many episodes left to go, but it was done in a way that seemed quite out of character for Maya.

Then Josy had that moment in the Prep mansion where she immediately went to the MC to ask for moral support for when her Dad arrives but not Maya, her girlfriend. That moment is especially jarring if you're not on the M&J path given the events of the previous night, and I suppose it could be looked at as though Josy just naturally expects Maya to be there for her which is why she didn't ask her, but after the feelings expressed by those 2 in ep 4, it still feels a bit odd that she didn't seem to have much consideration for Maya in that moment.

I've complained about Maya's "No string's attached" often enough I didn't think I needed to go into it again, but yes, I agree that was out of character. It's just that I see it as more of an external issue: DPC needed to advance the relationship, but he wasn't ready to take it to the next logical step. So he just made the MC insistent on playing the field (even if he hadn't been) so Maya could declare that they aren't ready to try for something more yet (even though that's exactly what they decided to do).

The argument Maya made, IMHO, is in character for her under certain very specific circumstances (though there are some unpleasant implications). It's just that she uses that argument regardless of what the actual circumstances are.

As for Josy, I see that as another victim of the rushed time frame: Maya is her girlfriend, but the relationship is secret. So getting public support from her is a potentially tricky thing and it makes sense Josy might be hesitant to ask that of her. This should have led to a discussion about just how the three-way relationship was going to work, but that had to be stalled so that the story could get back to its wall-to-wall sex scenes.

Mind you, it's still weird that when Maya asked to come along, Josy included her almost dismissively. But I attribute that to DPC overcorrecting for that damn kiss if the MC stays friends in Episode 4.

 

[moskyx]

I think the system would have been worked better, if instead, Taking away a scale. The game would have ad a point to you decision. Like in the for example , Mass Effect or KoTOR. if you make 1 paragon, or light side decision, you gain a point, and if you make a Renegade decision, you gain a point on that scale too. whichever you have more , determined who you are, and it's still not luck you out, from major choices. Like for example in Mass Effect, you can have more Renegade point, yet you can still choose, whether you save the council or not in the end of the first game.

in Badik, if You have chick affinity, and Melani and Sara, show up in the shower, you automatically locked out form the option, to be confident in front of them.

and Since he has to create content for each path .... The way he decide to approach this, is more like an illusion of control, rather than actual control.

Our major choices are building a character, so if we choose to be a nice, respectful guy that guy would feel awkward in front of Melanie and Sarah (or they wouldn't feel so attracted to him), so it's kind of logical that we couldn't do something more. There's control, but that control doesn't mean you can do whatever you want in any moment, because your actions shapes your MC in a certain way.

That's why I think we're heading to a crucial point where we might not be able to choose our reaction if we've already choose our main DIK/CHICK path. And the best way to "avoid" strong reactions from players is locking out some prior events based on that same scale, so if this new event contains something unavoidable due to our prior behaviour it could feel more "natural", as this wouldn't be the first scene in which that happens.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

same, there's enough space on that scale for 5-6 more episodes

There isn't if you go full DIK or CHICK because in that case there's only 2 Major Choices left before the other side of the scale is completely wiped out.

Mind you, it's still weird that when Maya asked to come along, Josy included her almost dismissively. But I attribute that to DPC overcorrecting for that damn kiss if the MC stays friends in Episode 4.

He didn't just overcorrect, he flat-out retconned it.



Makes me wonder if we'll ever see this change implemented in ep 4.

 

[ChipLecsap]

Ever hear the phrase, you only get once chance to make a first impression?

With 4 of the 5 LIs (Josy being exception because she was acquainted with the MC before the story began) their initial impression of him prove to be wrong but it takes multiple interations to undo that. How long does it take Bella to think MC isn't a bad seed, how long until Jill doesn't see MC as a wounded puppy, how long until Sage sees MC having value beyond what he can do for her, ditto for Maya.

Yes, BUT. and as much I don't like to admit when I'm wrong. This lead back to us to the controversial Maya and Josy situation.

You can be as nice with them as you can, you may genuinely like them. and Yet, the decision is not based on your interact with them, It based on event which they cannot have knowledge about. , these major choices are not related to the main girls. They can't know if , whether you comforted Steve or not. or may be the standing up for yourself in the hallway against the Jock, which is according the game is a Dik move. is the one decision that put you out of the balanced scale.

There is only two event that these are actually affected. beating Troy, Bella will know about it, and you get, a minus point with her, and punching Tybalt, which Jill will find out. and We dont know if this will have an effect or not.

 

[ChipLecsap]

View attachment 802762 View attachment 802763 View attachment 802764

God they are beautiful

 

[Hugh G. Rection]

Unless you want a polyamorous relationship with 2 slamming hotties

Hear hear! This guy gets it, follow his teachings and avoid needless trouble

You go your way, I'll go mine A pair of HOTs grown and flowered await

 

[lemonfreak]

There isn't if you go full DIK or CHICK because in that case there's only 2 Major Choices left before the other side of the scale is completely wiped out.

Please don't take this as a personal attack but this comment seems to sum up almost* every issue I have with people in this thread.

I want my choices to matter, I want to know that, by choosing to behave in a manner that makes Sage like me I will lose the ability to make make Josy like me (or vice versa). If I don't have that then I'm playing Skyrim which, despite putting more than 400 hours into across different platforms, I always had a problem with precisely because none of the MC's major decisions carried any weight.

Skyrim at least has the excuse that, as a sandbox, it can make the story a small part of the overall game (I'd be shocked if the story represented 5% of the game); since BaD is a visual novel the story has to be king

*Almost because the 'Update Whens' are a whole different matter

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Unless you want a polyamorous relationship with 2 slamming hotties

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