VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[felicemastronzo]

The only thing that could really be considered "unpleasant" with regards to how DPC presented Maya is that she was in a relationship with another LI, but this would seem to be more of a personal issue with certain players being possessive over each individual LI than it is about the way Maya is presented. People are often more than happy to have a male MC get involved with multiple LIs and then eventually bring them together as a throuple or harem, but when 2 LIs are already in a relationship, suddenly people got triggered. Also, the rejection makes little sense when a player can do everything with them, so this is more of a fault of DPC's decision to split these paths in this way than it is with the actual characters.

I'm not talking about fidelity or exclusivity, but just how DPC makes Maya behave.

if it were only as you say Sage should be the most hated, and instead it is not at all


these are what I argue about how DPC has made Maya unpleasant for many players:

it is a reasoning already addressed.
Maya says she was convinced the relationship was practically over, until proven otherwise we have to believe her and for sure she did not know that Josy was coming, and that she would never make it to the BR

she is not 100% convincing but this is it, Mc believes her, and it is up to us to believe her too.

DPC writes, in my opinion voluntarily, Maya in order to create a certain resentment towards her, practically immediately.
I do a quick recap of how DPC makes Maya "unpleasant" to players (not all of course), I am of course referring to players who had an interest in Maya
1) at the end of the movie night in bed MC declares his feelings, that was the moment Maya should have stopped him and she doesn't
2) on the evening of the grinding, we are bombarded with Maya's thoughts (in retrospect it is very clear that Maya is a Lesbian, but at that moment we are not understanding it) and they are all "selfish", all about the sensations of her body and the fact that she believes what she feels is wrong, even when she kisses Mc she tries to think of Josy (we don't know then that it is Josy, but this is)
3) when MC reunites with Maya after the cum-petition, she doesn't mention the grinding, but asks him to help her, making out with her. a request I would say quite tactless, as well as useless since MC is not a DIK yet. on that occasion MC can ask Maya to talk about it later, which seems to me the only sensible thing to do
4) when MC returns to the dormitory he finds Maya in the dark, in the most depressing scene of the game, and he has to force her to be able to talk

in my opinion at that moment the damage between the players and Maya is already done, the end of chapter 3 only takes away the hope that they were only misunderstandings

 

[shazba]

The only thing that could really be considered "unpleasant" with regards to how DPC presented Maya is that she was in a relationship with another LI, but this would seem to be more of a personal issue with certain players being possessive over each individual LI than it is about the way Maya is presented. People are often more than happy to have a male MC get involved with multiple LIs and then eventually bring them together as a throuple or harem, but when 2 LIs are already in a relationship, suddenly people got triggered. Also, the rejection makes little sense when a player can do everything with them, so this is more of a fault of DPC's decision to split these paths in this way than it is with the actual characters.

No offence to anyone here, but you'd have to be a total self-centred cunt to try to screw every girl you come across, even those that tell you they are in a relationship, and then get all butt-hurt when you find out that two of your conquests are screwing each other. In my opinion, anyone with that attitude deserves an un-lubed, 12" dildo rammed up their ass so they can experience what butt-hurt really feels like.

Seriously, you're either fucking around with someone, or you're in a relationship with them. If you're just fucking around then they are allowed to fuck around with others as well, and if you're in a relationship with someone then neither of you should be fucking around with anyone else (that's called cheating). In this case, the MC wants to fuck his cake and eat it too (that was the best perversion of that saying I could come up with right now, maybe something better will come to me later...).

 

[felicemastronzo]

I assume Tommy knows Maya through Josy (though not their actual relationship); hence why he was interrupted, to avoid revealing the secrets ahead of time.

As far as Quinn goes, I think she's just an abrasive asshole by nature. She likes to get a rise out of people, and as Tommy notes it doesn't much matter who it is. So she'll play up the Josy thing to Tommy, tease Sage about her rich family, or imply to the MC that she can make Maya misbehave. And those are three people Quinn seems to like. The only time I can think of Quinn showing voluntary restraint is if the MC joins her and Sage for lunch; if Sage asks her to stop fighting around her, Quinn will limit herself to snark for the rest of the meal.

I agree that slapping Riona is probably Quinn's low point thus far. Though, depending on how you look at it, trying to convince Riona that she's good for nothing more than prostitution and drug running is arguably even worse.

I thought so too, but it wouldn't make sense for him to say "she's a friend of my hated step sister" (if Josy's father doesn't know I don't think Tommy knows), what could Rusty care about that?

it must be something inherent to life at BR
in the most harmless of cases, perhaps he could be saying that Maya was Quinn's new pet, or something

and to add anxiety, think of all the times Maya goes away because she has to do HOTs stuff .. mysterious HOT stuff

another consideration, all wondering where Maya's father got the dorm key from, let's not forget that Quinn always had that key

 

[ename144]

we must acknowledge to Josy that she did this before, after being suddenly woken up after a complicated evening

p.s. that was the Josy I liked, then gone and now replaced by Maya's sex sensei

Really? Both roles feel like natural parts of Josy's character to me. She's witty and kind, with an optimistic outlook. So she'll return Quinn's mean-spirited snark with less barbed snark of her own, but will respond to her friend's insecurity with practical advice.

I do think Josy was somewhat overshadowed by Maya in this episode, but that's more a result of the how the plot was structured. I don't think Josy was out of character.

 

[DavDR]

The only thing that could really be considered "unpleasant" with regards to how DPC presented Maya is that she was in a relationship with another LI

I know she's your favorite LI but I think you're ignoring many unpleasant aspect's of Maya's character.

When you first meet her she doesn't have anything nice to say about anyone

and I believe her comments about the Alpha's and the DIK's were more than a little judgemental

She also shows her willingness to use people


When you look at her argument with Josy you can see that she has a tendency to be mean and to lash out at people


And this is really cold and hurtful.


We also see during the grinding scene that she doesn't have any thoughts for the way she's using MC, only for herself. Likewise in the party scene after, she doesn't even apologize to MC, just ask to be helped again and doesn't take any responsibility when he refuses.

In the library scene Maya, and Josy too, are very insensitive, making out in front of the MC despite being aware of how he feels about them.

Also in episode 5, instead of putting on a brave face and being there for her lover, she turns around and walks away.

 

[Pendrell]

I'd also count myself as one of those people frustrated with the Quinn decision because it's another one of those cases where you can do everything with her, but she'll reject his help mainly because of an affinity check. People might say, "it's because his personality on the DIK path is more what she likes, that's why she won't accept his help on the other paths", but seriously, what does she really see that's significantly different on the DIK path that she doesn't see on the Neutral/CHICK path? The only triggers in terms of moments/scenes are to take her number, use her services, and have sex with her in Ep 4, which can be done on a CHICK run. So she clearly doesn't need to see much of the MC in order to trust him on the DIK path, and I don't see why it needs to be so different on the Neutral/CHICK path.

Your issue seems to be with the central gimmick of the game, i.e. the affinity mechanic. I think you just have to roll with it, personally. Of course it's not absolutely realistic, there's no way it could be, but it's a good stab at an approximation of what might be someone's "personality" or "vibe" or whatever. If you're going to suspend disbelief enough to play the game, I think it's reasonable to accept that the affinity will start to have more and more of an influence on how people react to the MC. So it's not just about a collection of moments/scenes that you have with a character, but rather the cumulative effect of the choices on the MC's character: how the MC carries himself, tone of voice etc affecting how the MC is perceived by others but which aren't necessarily visible in-game. Quinn is reacting to that, and she leans DIK in her preferences, which seems consistent, and explains why she accepts your help on that path.

 

[moskyx]

I thought so too, but it wouldn't make sense for him to say "she's a friend of my hated step sister" (if Josy's father doesn't know I don't think Tommy knows), what could Rusty care about that?

it must be something inherent to life at BR
in the most harmless of cases, perhaps he could be saying that Maya was Quinn's new pet, or something

and to add anxiety, think of all the times Maya goes away because she has to do HOTs stuff .. mysterious HOT stuff

another consideration, all wondering where Maya's father got the dorm key from, let's not forget that Quinn always had that key

Josy's family knows Maya is a friend of her, and it's stated she's been at Josy's home, but no one knows they were couple because Josy didn't want to face what Maya experienced with her dad

Edit.- I re-read your comment, yeah, you're right.

 

[shazba]

Anything is wrong, dunno what but don´t get the feeling outa my Head ... Too Perfect she is

Maybe she just had braces as a kid, do we need to go down the whole destruction of her sexuality path?!

 

[ename144]

I thought so too, but it wouldn't make sense for him to say "she's a friend of my hated step sister" (if Josy's father doesn't know I don't think Tommy knows), what could Rusty care about that?

it must be something inherent to life at BR
in the most harmless of cases, perhaps he could be saying that Maya was Quinn's new pet, or something

and to add anxiety, think of all the times Maya goes away because she has to do HOTs stuff .. mysterious HOT stuff

another consideration, all wondering where Maya's father got the dorm key from, let's not forget that Quinn always had that key

I don't get the impression Tommy hates Josy anywhere near as much as Josy hates Tommy. I think Tommy was just going to say that Maya was his sister's BFF.

As far as Quinn having Maya's key, we're never explicitly shown it the way we are with Maya's father. It's possible Maya left the door unlocked while she was in the room. It's also possible Quinn just picked the lock; that seems like something she could and would do.

 

[Gladheim]

Who knew that if you don't roleplay with Jade in the video she says your name and the MC's face comes out? wow I didn't know, I guess in the end choosing to roleplay can save the MC's ass.

 

[shazba]

I don't get the impression Tommy hates Josy anywhere near as much as Josy hates Tommy. I think Tommy was just going to say that Maya was his sister's BFF.

As far as Quinn having Maya's key, where never explicitly shown it the way we are with Maya's father. It's possible Maya left the door unlocked while she was in the room. It's also possible Quinn just picked the lock; that seems like something she could and would do.

I'd say Tommy is just a dick (DIK) and treats Josy like shit (the same way he treats MC like shit) and the thought of her joining the HOTs bothers him because he thinks of her as his sister (even if they aren't blood related - or are they, are they step-siblings or half-siblings, can't remember), whereas Josy doesn't like Tommy because he's a dick, the same reason most of the players don't like him right up until the mc punched his lights out and then we felt better.

 

[Daver]

You don't need to have the threesome to avoid the scene. Just don't offer to help Maya with her list, in ep3.

impossible I'm a good guy... on chik path

 

[felicemastronzo]

Really? Both roles feel like natural parts of Josy's character to me. She's witty and kind, with an optimistic outlook. So she'll return Quinn's mean-spirited snark with less barbed snark of her own, but will respond to her friend's insecurity with practical advice.

I do think Josy was somewhat overshadowed by Maya in this episode, but that's more a result of the how the plot was structured. I don't think Josy was out of character.

I'm not saying she can't be both

but Josy after that exploit against Quinn disappears completely, she even tries to convince MC through messages on the cell phone and not in person, when they meet Jill in the library she manages to sigh at best, she doesn't speak to him.

then reappears on the evening of the clarification with a very passive role (I would say outside her character), possibly even at the picnic she is very passive, more passive than Maya usually is.

then she reappears after her father's visit, and is already a "strange" version of Josy, on the one hand she stabs MC very painfully in the back in case they refused his proposal, or she is completely disinterested in Maya's disappearance to have a healthy fuck with MC

in the sixth chapter there is only the love doctor Josy, unable even to manage a talkative like Becky who openly teases Maya.

I understand that this Josy is used to unlock Maya, which has a narrative function but I liked the old one a lot.
instead from being brave and unconscious, she becomes fearful as few and then re-emerges as a sex therapist


I doubt I was clear ...

 

[Gladheim]

I'd say Tommy is just a dick (DIK) and treats Josy like shit (the same way he treats MC like shit) and the thought of her joining the HOTs bothers him because he thinks of her as his sister (even if they aren't blood related - or are they, are they step-siblings or half-siblings, can't remember), whereas Josy doesn't like Tommy because he's a dick, the same reason most of the players don't like him right up until the mc punched his lights out and then we felt better.

Besides that, I think what bothers Tommy is that with his stepsister close by, he can't have so much fun at parties, he can't fuck with girls like he used to or maybe take drugs whatever with her in front of him.

 

[shazba]

impossible I'm a good guy... on chik path

Definitely a good guy, not many people would offer to fuck a gorgeous lady friend to help her out - that's really taking one for the team.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

I'm not talking about fidelity or exclusivity, but just how DPC makes Maya behave.

if it were only as you say Sage should be the most hated, and instead it is not at all

these are what I argue about how DPC has made Maya unpleasant for many players:

I disagree that there was anything in Maya's behaviour as presented by DPC that led to this feeling in some players. The problem has always been for these people that 2 LIs who were initially separate became connected by the fact that they were in a relationship with each other. This meant that those who were only interested in one of them now had to contend with either being with both even if they didn't want one of them, or not being with either and giving up the one they want.

This is what created that "unpleasant" feeling for some because the general rule of thumb in these games is that, when a LI is already in an established relationship with a guy, then the MC is going to be able to take her away from him. This is why Sage is not disliked nor Josy (through the first 3 chapters) because knowing they were already in a relationship with a guy, or believed to be a guy, is not a problem for people, but DPC flipped the script and connected 2 LIs by having them be in a relationship, and this is what some people have a problem with, not with the way the characters are presented.

People like to say that it was the "lies" and "deceit", but really they're just annoyed that they can't have either of them separately and that they essentially got "cucked" by a LI they had not interest in. So it's never really been about the characters, it's about how DPC put them in a relationship with each other that, deep down, has always been the issue for some people.

 

[shazba]

Besides that, I think what bothers Tommy is that with his stepsister close by, he can't have so much fun at parties, he can't fuck with girls like he used to or maybe take drugs whatever with her in front of him.

Yeah, like when my SO suggested she apply for a position at my company, I was like "I'll have to tone down all that sexual harassment crap now..."

 

[felicemastronzo]

I disagree that there was anything in Maya's behaviour as presented by DPC that led to this feeling in some players. The problem has always been for these people that 2 LIs who were initially separate became connected by the fact that they were in a relationship with each other. This meant that those who were only interested in one of them now had to contend with either being with both even if they didn't want one of them, or not being with either and giving up the one they want.

This is what created that "unpleasant" feeling for some because the general rule of thumb in these games is that, when a LI is already in an established relationship with a guy, then the MC is going to be able to take her away from him. This is why Sage is not disliked nor Josy (through the first 3 chapters) because knowing they were already in a relationship with a guy, or believed to be a guy, is not a problem for people, but DPC flipped the script and connected 2 LIs by having them be in a relationship, and this is what some people have a problem with, not with the way the characters are presented.

People like to say that it was the "lies" and "deceit", but really they're just annoyed that they can't have either of them separately and that they essentially got "cucked" by a LI they had not interest in. So it's never really been about the characters, it's about how DPC put them in a relationship with each other that, deep down, has always been the issue for some people.

according to me no

and in fact all the examples I have given are prior to Josy's arrival.
that episode just blows the cap off.

why hasn't the same "hate" been created for Josy then?
they are characters presented differently, and Maya is presented BAD

then I prefer to talk about what I think, I find it hard to say what others think, assuming there is a right way

 

[shazba]

I disagree that there was anything in Maya's behaviour as presented by DPC that led to this feeling in some players. The problem has always been for these people that 2 LIs who were initially separate became connected by the fact that they were in a relationship with each other. This meant that those who were only interested in one of them now had to contend with either being with both even if they didn't want one of them, or not being with either and giving up the one they want.

This is what created that "unpleasant" feeling for some because the general rule of thumb in these games is that, when a LI is already in an established relationship with a guy, then the MC is going to be able to take her away from him. This is why Sage is not disliked nor Josy (through the first 3 chapters) because knowing they were already in a relationship with a guy, or believed to be a guy, is not a problem for people, but DPC flipped the script and connected 2 LIs by having them be in a relationship, and this is what some people have a problem with, not with the way the characters are presented.

People like to say that it was the "lies" and "deceit", but really they're just annoyed that they can't have either of them separately and that they essentially got "cucked" by a LI they had not interest in. So it's never really been about the characters, it's about how DPC put them in a relationship with each other that, deep down, has always been the issue for some people.

This whole subject blows my mind really. I think this gaming environment (with its harems and so on - I'm not referring to BaDIK here, but all the other games in the genre) has created a mentality that the player is entitled to everything and the world revolves around the player. Of course the game was created for the players so some of that makes sense, but this abhorrence that the will of every other character in the game might not gravitate to the player is not healthy. It's bordering on the incel mentality. It's like did none of these players ever have a girlfriend that ended up with someone else? If that's not the case then you either never had a girlfriend, ended up marrying the first girl you dated, ended up marrying every girl you dated, killed each girl after you finished dating them, and I can't come up with any more permutations but I'm sure there are heaps more that are ridiculous...

 

[Mars88]

Guys, any news about Official Walkthrough?