VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[Heyesey]

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That's the "illogical" part of this story. No bank manager with one functioning brain cell would let a teenager with zero credit and no job co-sign a loan.

For Maya to feel paralyzed because of that loan, it's only necessary that SHE believes she's the co-signer. She's already said that she has no money to pay a lawyer. Maybe this all resolves itself by someone going through the loan contract and proving (to her satisfaction) that Patrick is talking out of his ass.

It's also possible that DPC doesn't know enough about the student loan system to realise that what he's implied so far is actually impossible.

There's a third possibility, and I don't know enough about US law to know if this one is valid. Has Patrick got her to sign a two-part contract which says that when she draws the money, it goes into his account and he only has to give it to her if she meets his list of demands? (In the UK, such a contract would be less than worthless, because Patrick would get prosecuted for blackmail.)

 

[OFT]

 

[godkingxerxes]

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To not only do that to Jill, but take screenshots of it.

Heartless I say, HEARTLESS.

 

[PreachyLocust]

At this point I'm just debating which group of people is less relatable to me, Jill lovers or Maya haters. I can't decide. But the thread is entertaining though. All I need are Josy, Sage and Maya. Everyone else can die in a tragic fire near the end of the game.

 

[notme222]

There's a third possibility, and I don't know enough about US law to know if this one is valid. Has Patrick got her to sign a two-part contract which says that when she draws the money, it goes into his account and he only has to give it to her if she meets his list of demands? (In the UK, such a contract would be less than worthless, because Patrick would get prosecuted for blackmail.)

It would be voidable, but that falls under your prior explanation of "if she thinks it's true, that's sufficient."

The loan details never really made sense. But if the core idea is that she can't pay for school without Patrick's help, that's plausible enough for me to accept it overall.

 

[godkingxerxes]

At this point I'm just debating which group of people is less relatable to me, Jill lovers or Maya haters. I can't decide. But the thread is entertaining though. All I need are Josy, Sage and Maya. Everyone else can die in a tragic fire near the end of the game.

I am both a Jill lover and a Maya hater, maybe we are destined to not be friends.

Speaking of fire though, DPC has a pattern of burning the throuple alive, so maybe it's best if you don't wish for a fire because the evidence shows that it might burn you close to home.

 

[gamingdevil800]

but you’ve made an assumption it’s a bank loan.

Lots of organisations provide student loans, some provide them to parents for their children. There’s entire systems setup for these specific type of loans.

You're wasting your time stating the obvious here against all the mental hula hoops going on The issue is that Maya needs the loan money for her living expenses etc, she's not worried about repaying it and frankly a lot of students never repay it. The whole scenario is stupid regardless, she could probably sue her own father if he put her in a situation where she had to drop out.

 

[PreachyLocust]

I am both a Jill lover and a Maya hater, maybe we are destined to not be friends.

Speaking of fire though, DPC has a pattern of burning the throuple alive, so maybe it's best if you don't wish for a fire because the evidence shows that it might burn you close to home.

My reference to the depressing game I wish I never played that shall not be named was intentional.
That said, no friendship is possible with any Maya hater. Sides have been chosen. Let the battle commence.

 

[lipe2410]

Hey guys, some news: after all this talk of Maya haters, DPC decided rip her off the game and...no, wait, he doesn't give a shit about it. She and her story stays and will be a happy and beautifull ending with MC and Josy. Maya for life

 

[kyrlian]

1 hour and a half and noone finded a decent and legal solution for Maya's problems.

Wow. Isn't that the job of the fans? or the writer? I mean you are asking others to solve her problems (just like she does in the game, now I understand why you like her).

Why we have to find a "decent and legal solution" to a poorly written character?

Anyway, other options since you nicely asked:

1. Leave college to be herself and be happy with the people she loves. Well to me this a very interesting path and should be an ending choice. It's a meaningful choice that real people face (your love/your career). Whoever gets the "pregnancy test prize" will have to face this choice too and maybe drop out. Nothing will test your love like this kind of choice.

2. Fake it a few more years... you know like she has been doing all her life and she was doing at the start of the game. Still doing it with everybody. This is not an option with her father because... why?

3. Talk to the bank, the government, find a professional, adviser, lawyer, counselor, family member... because that loan bullshit is a bigger plot hole than the ending of Lost. I think she doesnt watch TV, because there are ads and news for women's support daily in every developed country in the world. "We don't know if they have that" you say, thats lame man. And of course we know: The college has counselors and Jillybean is planning a campaign.

4. Join the HOTs for acommodation + work. Being financially independent is never a bad option, this is really the first thing any person in her situation would do. Many students do it even without financial need, just because is good for their careers. Even if it doesn't pay the tuition beats doing nothing. Oh she doesn't have money to go to a lawyer. Yeah, because she doesn't work and doesn't check the board in her fucking room, maybe Tremolo steals too much.

As of now, only Maya and Tybalt are doing nothing in the world of BaDIK. Maybe another ending has them get married, Jill and Tremolo will gladly play a song in their wedding.

5. Leave to San Diego to be a surfer, return Interlude Season Nine. Not so bad. Please DPC do it man, stop this neverending waifu wars.

Please note I'm quite sure her character path will make her work/take action (Because that's real character growth and not waiting for others to solve your problems).

 

[DavDR]

The storyline is contrived as fuck and, as you say, needs ending but you’ve made an assumption it’s a bank loan.

Lots of organisations provide student loans, some provide them to parents for their children. There’s entire systems setup for these specific type of loans.

If DPC wants to hand wave all this bizarre loan nonsense he could just have the loan be from like her fathers church or some other organisation that isn’t worried about credit scores or income.

again, stupid fucking story line and I’m 90% sure it’s just bad writing that will be ignored but it isn’t a full blown plot hole quite yet.

No that doesn't make sense either.

I'll go from how it is in the US because that's what I'm most familiar with, banking laws are similar enough in most countries that we can speak broadly here based on US law.

First of all the Loan. Given the facts that are laid out in game dialogue, although even this is a muddled given the way DPC wrote it. At the end of Ep6 Maya says that her Father co-signed her student loan and is now holding the money back to keep her from being with Josy. This is FALSE, in most student loans the money is sent directly from the bank to the College. Even in cases where the person who took the loan out receives the money, that money would go to Maya not her Father. So this is also FALSE.
Then to complicate things further in Ep7 DPC has Maya tell us that it was her Father who took out the loan and that she was the co-signer. This is FALSE. No loan officer is going to let a penniless teenager co-sign for a loan. Why am I so sure of this? Because the bank doesn't want to be shut down by the government and the loan officer doesn't want to go to jail, and that's exactly what would happen if a government regulator ever saw that loan application.

Next the Money. While applying for a loan the question will be asked what is the purpose of this loan? It could be for many things, to buy a house or car. To start a business. Or to pay for education. This is the Law, it's part of a series of laws to prevent money laundering, the bank will require proof that the money has been used for it's intended purpose.
And this is the point where everything falls apart. If Patrick does not let Maya use the money to pay for college then the bank is going to come and take it back.

This also addresses the idea that Patrick borrowed money from someone other than a bank. Lending is licensed in most of the world, in fact any money passing through international banks or lending institutions requires documentation similar to that I outlined above on the purpose of the money. This is also a part of laws to prevent money laundering.

So there is no way in any modern world scenario that Patrick could use money to force Maya to not date Josy.

 

[Heyesey]

And this is the point where everything falls apart. If Patrick does not let Maya use the money to pay for college then the bank is going to come and take it back.

That's not everything falling apart. That's Patrick winning.

 

[DavDR]

It would be voidable, but that falls under your prior explanation of "if she thinks it's true, that's sufficient."

The loan details never really made sense. But if the core idea is that she can't pay for school without Patrick's help, that's plausible enough for me to accept it overall.

Then she just quits school.

This is the heart of the whole argument. There is no viable way for Patrick to stop Maya from dating Josy with the threat of withholding money. Unless Maya is willing to give in to Patrick's demands in exchange for an easy ride through the cost of her education.

 

[DavDR]

That's not everything falling apart. That's Patrick winning.

If the bank takes the money back then Maya has no lifetime debt and can go live her life as she pleases.

 

[hakuna-matata]

Hadn't thought about that in particular but you're right. Not only that, there was no reason to keep it a secret in the first place other than attempting to create non-existent drama. In fact it would have been more effective if it was revealed earlier, because that nonsensical secretiveness kinda ruined the stakes for me.

Another thing. Why does she need to co-sign this loan? Does the father have horrible credit? What can the bank or any other company possibly seize or get from 18/19 year old if loanee decides to stop paying?

 

[Deleted member 4212304]

For Maya to feel paralyzed because of that loan, it's only necessary that SHE believes she's the co-signer. She's already said that she has no money to pay a lawyer. Maybe this all resolves itself by someone going through the loan contract and proving (to her satisfaction) that Patrick is talking out of his ass.

It's also possible that DPC doesn't know enough about the student loan system to realise that what he's implied so far is actually impossible.

There's a third possibility, and I don't know enough about US law to know if this one is valid. Has Patrick got her to sign a two-part contract which says that when she draws the money, it goes into his account and he only has to give it to her if she meets his list of demands? (In the UK, such a contract would be less than worthless, because Patrick would get prosecuted for blackmail.)

You can get loans from the government for at least some money, which is what the MC is doing I think. Maya's story is just contrived.

 

[thorin0815]

Another thing. Why does she need to co-sign this loan?

I suppose Patrick wanted to keep her under control.

 

[hakuna-matata]

Maya can always ask Stanley for a job. I heard stripping pays very well and I am certain Lilly can vouch for her. She does have a bit of experience with grinding.

 

[Canto Forte]

Gamers ... contracts are just that - the agreement between however many parties.
We do not know any of the many many pages or it.
The father can be the primary and can just be there to support his daughter in a contract agreement with the bank. There might not be more to it. She has no assets, he had them.
He might have put the family business as collateral so that is her emotional blackmail:
She quits or does not get along, they lose it all as a family.

That's impossible, because Maya has to have a VERY VERY good credit score (something like >600) for the loan to be approved. If she doesn't have the credit score, there are ways if she liens a house, car or whatever (it has to be her property, legally owned by herself).

Either DPC doesn't really know how loans work or this is another ridiculous writing of his just for the sake of drama.

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That's the "illogical" part of this story. No bank manager with one functioning brain cell would let a teenager with zero credit and no job co-sign a loan.

This storyline needs to be brought be behind the barn.

DPC is really good at a lot of things, but creating believable facts on which the dramas are based is definitely not one of them.

And even if Burke says that to Maya and Jade is not present, there is still the possibility that Jade will find out what Stephen thinks of her lessons. That wouldn't end well for Stepehn, given Jade's previous reaction. So your theory is unlikely.

If you had written that Stephen would bring in a lawyer friend and that Maya could gain more understanding of finance by changing her teaching interests, I would be with you.

For real life, I agree with you. But this is a game.

Hadn't thought about that in particular but you're right. Not only that, there was no reason to keep it a secret in the first place other than attempting to create non-existent drama. In fact it would have been more effective if it was revealed earlier, because that nonsensical secretiveness kinda ruined the stakes for me.

The storyline is contrived as fuck and, as you say, needs ending but you’ve made an assumption it’s a bank loan.

Lots of organisations provide student loans, some provide them to parents for their children. There’s entire systems setup for these specific type of loans.

If DPC wants to hand wave all this bizarre loan nonsense he could just have the loan be from like her fathers church or some other organisation that isn’t worried about credit scores or income.

again, stupid fucking story line and I’m 90% sure it’s just bad writing that will be ignored but it isn’t a full blown plot hole quite yet.

For Maya to feel paralyzed because of that loan, it's only necessary that SHE believes she's the co-signer. She's already said that she has no money to pay a lawyer. Maybe this all resolves itself by someone going through the loan contract and proving (to her satisfaction) that Patrick is talking out of his ass.

It's also possible that DPC doesn't know enough about the student loan system to realise that what he's implied so far is actually impossible.

There's a third possibility, and I don't know enough about US law to know if this one is valid. Has Patrick got her to sign a two-part contract which says that when she draws the money, it goes into his account and he only has to give it to her if she meets his list of demands? (In the UK, such a contract would be less than worthless, because Patrick would get prosecuted for blackmail.)

At this point I'm just debating which group of people is less relatable to me, Jill lovers or Maya haters. I can't decide. But the thread is entertaining though. All I need are Josy, Sage and Maya. Everyone else can die in a tragic fire near the end of the game.

It would be voidable, but that falls under your prior explanation of "if she thinks it's true, that's sufficient."

The loan details never really made sense. But if the core idea is that she can't pay for school without Patrick's help, that's plausible enough for me to accept it overall.

I am both a Jill lover and a Maya hater, maybe we are destined to not be friends.

Speaking of fire though, DPC has a pattern of burning the throuple alive, so maybe it's best if you don't wish for a fire because the evidence shows that it might burn you close to home.

Hey guys, some news: after all this talk of Maya haters, DPC decided rip her off the game and...no, wait, he doesn't give a shit about it. She and her story stays and will be a happy and beautifull ending with MC and Josy. Maya for life

Wow. Isn't that the job of the fans? or the writer? I mean you are asking others to solve her problems (just like she does in the game, now I understand why you like her).

Why we have to find a "decent and legal solution" to a poorly written character?

Anyway, other options since you nicely asked:

1. Leave college to be herself and be happy with the people she loves. Well to me this a very interesting path and should be an ending choice. It's a meaningful choice that real people face (your love/your career). Whoever gets the "pregnancy test prize" will have to face this choice too and maybe drop out. Nothing will test your love like this kind of choice.

2. Fake it a few more years... you know like she has been doing all her life and she was doing at the start of the game. Still doing it with everybody. This is not an option with her father because... why?

3. Talk to the bank, the government, find a professional, adviser, lawyer, counselor, family member... because that loan bullshit is a bigger plot hole than the ending of Lost. I think she doesnt watch TV, because there are ads and news for women's support daily in every developed country in the world. "We don't know if they have that" you say, thats lame man. And of course we know: The college has counselors and Jillybean is planning a campaign.

4. Join the HOTs for acommodation + work. Being financially independent is never a bad option, this is really the first thing any person in her situation would do. Many students do it even without financial need, just because is good for their careers. Even if it doesn't pay the tuition beats doing nothing. Oh she doesn't have money to go to a lawyer. Yeah, because she doesn't work and doesn't check the board in her fucking room, maybe Tremolo steals too much.

As of now, only Maya and Tybalt are doing nothing in the world of BaDIK. Maybe another ending has them get married, Jill and Tremolo will gladly play a song in their wedding.

5. Leave to San Diego to be a surfer, return Interlude Season Nine. Not so bad. Please DPC do it man, stop this neverending waifu wars.

Please note I'm quite sure her character path will make her work/take action (Because that's real character growth and not waiting for others to solve your problems).

No that doesn't make sense either.

I'll go from how it is in the US because that's what I'm most familiar with, banking laws are similar enough in most countries that we can speak broadly here based on US law.

First of all the Loan. Given the facts that are laid out in game dialogue, although even this is a muddled given the way DPC wrote it. At the end of Ep6 Maya says that her Father co-signed her student loan and is now holding the money back to keep her from being with Josy. This is FALSE, in most student loans the money is sent directly from the bank to the College. Even in cases where the person who took the loan out receives the money, that money would go to Maya not her Father. So this is also FALSE.
Then to complicate things further in Ep7 DPC has Maya tell us that it was her Father who took out the loan and that she was the co-signer. This is FALSE. No loan officer is going to let a penniless teenager co-sign for a loan. Why am I so sure of this? Because the bank doesn't want to be shut down by the government and the loan officer doesn't want to go to jail, and that's exactly what would happen if a government regulator ever saw that loan application.

Next the Money. While applying for a loan the question will be asked what is the purpose of this loan? It could be for many things, to buy a house or car. To start a business. Or to pay for education. This is the Law, it's part of a series of laws to prevent money laundering, the bank will require proof that the money has been used for it's intended purpose.
And this is the point where everything falls apart. If Patrick does not let Maya use the money to pay for college then the bank is going to come and take it back.

This also addresses the idea that Patrick borrowed money from someone other than a bank. Lending is licensed in most of the world, in fact any money passing through international banks or lending institutions requires documentation similar to that I outlined above on the purpose of the money. This is also a part of laws to prevent money laundering.

So there is no way in any modern world scenario that Patrick could use money to force Maya to not date Josy.

Then she just quits school.

This is the heart of the whole argument. There is no viable way for Patrick to stop Maya from dating Josy with the threat of withholding money. Unless Maya is willing to give in to Patrick's demands in exchange for an easy ride through the cost of her education.

Another thing. Why does she need to co-sign this loan? Does the father have horrible credit? What can the bank or any other company possibly seize or get from 18/19 year old if loanee decides to stop paying?

You can get loans from the government for at least some money, which is what the MC is doing I think. Maya's story is just contrived.

I suppose Patrick wanted to keep her under control.

We all love Maya, MC loves Maya, she be the nutter than his worm brother literal sister.
She is emotionally blackmailed by her father with the weight of all this guit:
Everything her family has is invested in the loan, she feels that she cannot let it fail.
We are here to be a shoulder to cry on, offer support, release and throbbing love
in order to see her get better in her heartache and find mening in her life
along side MC and his bombshells great friends.

 

[Darkwen]

Since there soooo much love for the lovely Maya, remember she got you right were she wants you