VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.11.1] [DrPinkCake]

[SomboSteel]

It is really hard to have an argument when you purposely only interpreting something the way you want.
and twisting and shaping What we know , in a way you want to back up you argument.
Enlighten me, and point me to the direction, where it was stated as Fact that Chad and Sage was never intimate with each other? And I'm the one who use Extreme arguments? .

First of all Sage, decidedly assume that Chad cheating on her with an another GIRL. The fact that in her mind its never even crossed that its actually a guy is speaks volumes.
She upset, when Chand only kiss her on her forehead, lashing on to him, that When was the Last time when we get intimate? and Not that, they never was, before.
Does Sage strike you as a person, who would stick with a man for 2 or 3 years, with out any Sex. Her Frustration comes from that She not getting what She used to get.
Combining this with Sage explanation about how in her family " feelings" are some kind of Tabu, it's clear that her relationship with Chad was not something Romantic cuddling and hand holding all the time. But she was getting something out of it.
Young Sage, making Remark on Rusty's "pocket", eagerly staring at it.
But her pussy gets moist, When the Big Bad Alpha Chad show up.The coolest guy in the school, Who then plays the stereotypical Badass asshole toward her, whats makes her even more wet.

When MC arrive, Sage and Chad relationship already hit the rock bottom, that's when the story start. The game given us enough information to understand the situation. Without us, needing to see what they were like. Because whats matter is what they are now. Thats where the story start.

And even if you playing this path, it's obviously presented , that in any given moment, if Chad Say, : Hey Sage time for your daily dick sucking . - She would have dumped MC without a second tough.
There is nothing lacking there, we have all the necessary information.
Josy Maya had to be shown, because we didn't have the information.

And the fact that Bella did not kiss her hubby is what makes the Flashback suspicious. She was sent home for seemingly No Reason, which keeps the Mystery around Bella.
and I think that is more the reason, than just She being asexual, or DPC is afraid of controversy. Which is more in line with DPC "Style" if he has one , this is more what we assume form DPC.
Keeping us keep guessing, keeping us in a mystery. If it's simply just, Bella kissing with her husband in her workplace, and she was sent home for it, - which is also a bullshit reason - , but in then its is just Thats it, and nothing more. It would be just a nice lovey-dovey scene, and nothing more. It would add legit nothing beside that. And He does not use the Flasback just to add nothing to it .
- Hey Bella was happy with her husband, cool, Yeah, We know, We see the photo. So What was the point of this scene again? -

See where I'm going with ?. Anything more to add to you secret desire NTR Fetish, ?!


at this point I think I'm kind of debunked almost everything, that some of you guys disguise as a secret NTR fetish, or hoping to use it as an ammunition for new kind of Trolling .
Lostanddamned . probably one of them who would gladly like to use this as new weapon for Trolling, He lives for Trolling, and the Jill Smile is getting a bit old now. But an NTR is a never ending amunition, obviously he would love it to have it. .
I just never realized how many of you out there who want the same.


I still love you SomboSteel

the way i see it, i do agree that there is the bare minimum of information relayed to us and very bluntly stated as exposition that we can piece together Sage and Chad are having a bad time with their relationship. but im saying it could be done better, by showing a relationship that seems awkward and on the rocks rather than just telling us up front the bare essentials to brute force us to believing it (because in this case DPC is god and his word is law on the matter). maybe it doesnt matter to you but i think its dumb that these two characters and their issues are such a big part of the early stepping stones of the story but we dont even see them together enough to believe they are in a relationship. the way their relationship is portrayed makes it nearly impossible to believe that Chad has been passionately intimate with Sage in a long time. and if he literally isnt sexually attracted to Sage then faking that wouldnt be easy and their issues would have likely broke to the surface while MC was still in high school.

and we have different perspectives and thats okay. if you genuinely see that Bella not kissing James in the flashback was intentional to be "mysterious" than thats cool. but to me it seems like a pattern of hesitation on the part of DPC to show anything even close to NTR. and for the record this isnt a fetish of mine and isnt something i look forward to in any of the games on here, but intimate moments can be used very well for character growth/development and the way DPC seems to be running to the hills to avoid this bothers me more than seeing the non-MC intimate moments themselves. people online seem to get SOOO insanely touchy over their imaginary waifus being intimate with other imaginary characters, and im quite positive DPC also is aware of this and to prevent people from crying about it and/or leaving his patreon he wont touch anything resembling the subject matter with a 10ft pole. he now has too much too lose and too much money at stake, or so it seems.

but seeing Bella truly happy (which is rare in the present time with MC) in a flashback with her husband would be beneficial because in all likelihood a happier younger Bella was essentially a different character. seeing her in that state instead of just being told bluntly or having it be heavily implied is a very different thing. knowing what she used to be like then and comparing to how closed off she has become, how alone she is, and how sad she is inside adds more to her character arc and possible redemption arc with MC if he is mature enough to see what she is dealing with and be there for her. most of us would probably like seeing a happy Bella (but then comes in where the weirdos out there ONLY want her happy with MC, so we cant see something like that with her literal HUSBAND in the past).

i literally just want to be shown more about the characters in this world, instead of just being told everything second or third hand. because for the most part in all story telling, showing is better than telling. and its arguably more true in a VISUAL novel genre. just my two cents.

and i still love you too Chip

 

[Ilhares]

Lily will let the MC pay to throatfuck her, safe to assume he’s not the only one

Hold up; you had to pay? I got that action for free.

 

[Deleted member 4374281]

Hold up; you had to pay? I got that action for free.

If you have neutral or chick affinity you get it for free.

 

[SomboSteel]

Hold up; you had to pay? I got that action for free.

yeah with the slightest charisma and rumor of a huge dick, these girls are super easy and just give it away for free lol

 

[Deleted member 1622958]

hey can anyone help me find this game. Literally 3 couples in a island on a holiday.

 

[Deleted member 4374281]

So welcome to F95 Zone. Just to give you a head's up...this thread is specifically for posts regarding DPC's game, "Being a Dik." If you would like help finding a game there are other threads where you can ask.

Would you like a specific place to look for this game?

Recommendations & Identification

Or the Lifetime Channel on basic cable.

 

[shazba]

It is really hard to have an argument when you purposely only interpreting something the way you want.
and twisting and shaping What we know , in a way you want to back up you argument.
Enlighten me, and point me to the direction, where it was stated as Fact that Chad and Sage was never intimate with each other? And I'm the one who use Extreme arguments? .

First of all Sage, decidedly assume that Chad cheating on her with an another GIRL. The fact that in her mind its never even crossed that its actually a guy is speaks volumes.
She upset, when Chand only kiss her on her forehead, lashing on to him, that When was the Last time when we get intimate? and Not that, they never was, before.
Does Sage strike you as a person, who would stick with a man for 2 or 3 years, with out any Sex. Her Frustration comes from that She not getting what She used to get.
Combining this with Sage explanation about how in her family " feelings" are some kind of Tabu, it's clear that her relationship with Chad was not something Romantic cuddling and hand holding all the time. But she was getting something out of it.
Young Sage, making Remark on Rusty's "pocket", eagerly staring at it.
But her pussy gets moist, When the Big Bad Alpha Chad show up.The coolest guy in the school, Who then plays the stereotypical Badass asshole toward her, whats makes her even more wet.

When MC arrive, Sage and Chad relationship already hit the rock bottom, that's when the story start. The game given us enough information to understand the situation. Without us, needing to see what they were like. Because whats matter is what they are now. Thats where the story start.

And even if you playing this path, it's obviously presented , that in any given moment, if Chad Say, : Hey Sage time for your daily dick sucking . - She would have dumped MC without a second tough.
There is nothing lacking there, we have all the necessary information.
Josy Maya had to be shown, because we didn't have the information.

And the fact that Bella did not kiss her hubby is what makes the Flashback suspicious. She was sent home for seemingly No Reason, which keeps the Mystery around Bella.
and I think that is more the reason, than just She being asexual, or DPC is afraid of controversy. Which is more in line with DPC "Style" if he has one , this is more what we assume form DPC.
Keeping us keep guessing, keeping us in a mystery. If it's simply just, Bella kissing with her husband in her workplace, and she was sent home for it, - which is also a bullshit reason - , but in then its is just Thats it, and nothing more. It would be just a nice lovey-dovey scene, and nothing more. It would add legit nothing beside that. And He does not use the Flasback just to add nothing to it .
- Hey Bella was happy with her husband, cool, Yeah, We know, We see the photo. So What was the point of this scene again? -

See where I'm going with ?. Anything more to add to you secret desire NTR Fetish, ?!


at this point I think I'm kind of debunked almost everything, that some of you guys disguise as a secret NTR fetish, or hoping to use it as an ammunition for new kind of Trolling .
Lostanddamned . probably one of them who would gladly like to use this as new weapon for Trolling, He lives for Trolling, and the Jill Smile is getting a bit old now. But an NTR is a never ending amunition, obviously he would love it to have it. .
I just never realized how many of you out there who want the same.


I still love you SomboSteel

the way i see it, i do agree that there is the bare minimum of information relayed to us and very bluntly stated as exposition that we can piece together Sage and Chad are having a bad time with their relationship. but im saying it could be done better, by showing a relationship that seems awkward and on the rocks rather than just telling us up front the bare essentials to brute force us to believing it (because in this case DPC is god and his word is law on the matter). maybe it doesnt matter to you but i think its dumb that these two characters and their issues are such a big part of the early stepping stones of the story but we dont even see them together enough to believe they are in a relationship. the way their relationship is portrayed makes it nearly impossible to believe that Chad has been passionately intimate with Sage in a long time. and if he literally isnt sexually attracted to Sage then faking that wouldnt be easy and their issues would have likely broke to the surface while MC was still in high school.

and we have different perspectives and thats okay. if you genuinely see that Bella not kissing James in the flashback was intentional to be "mysterious" than thats cool. but to me it seems like a pattern of hesitation on the part of DPC to show anything even close to NTR. and for the record this isnt a fetish of mine and isnt something i look forward to in any of the games on here, but intimate moments can be used very well for character growth/development and the way DPC seems to be running to the hills to avoid this bothers me more than seeing the non-MC intimate moments themselves. people online seem to get SOOO insanely touchy over their imaginary waifus being intimate with other imaginary characters, and im quite positive DPC also is aware of this and to prevent people from crying about it and/or leaving his patreon he wont touch anything resembling the subject matter with a 10ft pole. he now has too much too lose and too much money at stake, or so it seems.

but seeing Bella truly happy (which is rare in the present time with MC) in a flashback with her husband would be beneficial because in all likelihood a happier younger Bella was essentially a different character. seeing her in that state instead of just being told bluntly or having it be heavily implied is a very different thing. knowing what she used to be like then and comparing to how closed off she has become, how alone she is, and how sad she is inside adds more to her character arc and possible redemption arc with MC if he is mature enough to see what she is dealing with and be there for her. most of us would probably like seeing a happy Bella (but then comes in where the weirdos out there ONLY want her happy with MC, so we cant see something like that with her literal HUSBAND in the past).

i literally just want to be shown more about the characters in this world, instead of just being told everything second or third hand. because for the most part in all story telling, showing is better than telling. and its arguably more true in a VISUAL novel genre. just my two cents.

and i still love you too Chip

Regarding Bella and her relationship with James, it's been purposely mysterious from the get go. We really have little idea as to what the relationship was like, how it ended, where James is now, and why Bella is so messed up.

So a flashback of Bella's past could have been used to shed some light onto it all, but it didn't; the flashback served only to identify the library that she worked in so Bella could freak out when the mc tried to take her there on their first date.

We're still absolutely none the wiser as to what went on in Bella's past, and really, the big reveal will come when the mc discovers it, not in a flashback. Going into the locked room will probably explain a lot, but whether the mc goes in uninvited or Bella decides to share with him... Who knows.

With Sage and Chad, DPC couldn't show any intimacy between the two, because it needed to hold up that Chad was gay. He almost ignores her in private, a kiss to the forehead was the best he could do, while he showcases her in public to hide his secret. Sage had the right to be a lot more angry than she was, he simply used her; her complaint to him, "Oh! And it's about fucking time you start getting more physical with me, too!" says it all.

Why did Sage stay with him for so long while he was mostly ignoring her? She probably used him as well, it made sense for the head of the HOTs to date the head of the Jocks, he looked as good on her arm as she did on his... but ultimately she wanted more while he kept dodging.

But all that said, back to the point of showing other character development outside the mc's experience: I don't think it's all that necessary. It seems a huge amount of people had no interest in Zoey's character development (I know, I know, it's all about the timing). I don't know what is gained by seeing other people kissing or having sex unless it's part of the mc's experience (it is his story after all).

Using common sense (which I prefer to call "good sense" because it's really not all that common), we can comfortably surmise that over 25 girls in the story (including Sage, Josy and Bella) have fucked guys other than the mc so far. We don't need visual confirmation for any of them, and it seems the only people we see fucking are typically done for a reaction (Derek and Wendy, Jonh Boy and Elena, Carolyn and the entire Dorm Party, and so on).

In the Interlude, the sex scene between Emma and Bret was of no interest to anyone, the scene was only marginally saved by a borderline comatose Jenna (who was the MVP of the Interlude):

Spoiler: Go Jenna!

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So while it could develop other characters to see how they behave in their own relationships, we don't need it at all. People have long found interest in the various LIs, so no further work is required to attempt to endear them to anyone, they all each have plenty of fans.

We don't need to see that Maya and Josy are in love with each other, the reality is they are still struggling with their relationship and we see that.

We don't need to see Sage fucking other dudes to know she is a very sexual person. Her interactions with the mc cement that quite clearly.

Strangely enough, Zoey's confidence and interaction with the mc during the beginning of the Interlude are a bit confusing. She behaves like a very experienced sexual partner when we have been lead to believe her sexuality awoken with the mc. Maybe there's something she's not telling him...

And while it may have served our curiosity to see proper spousal intimacy between James and Bella, there may be a very good reason why the flashback showed us nothing. We'll just have to wait and see on that front.

Although I'm not sold on the "James is not really there in the flashback and Bella was just imagining things and her supervisor sent her home because she thought Bella was a whackjob" theory, it definitely was a bit strange that her supervisor sent her home purely for talking with her husband (maybe they kissed offscreen but that's still no reason to send her home). Maybe the supervisor is just a cunt, but it's possible there is more to it. I mean why did Bella really freak out when she found they were headed there? Because she worked there and her husband visited her there once? Is that really a good enough reason to go running all the way home? Seems a little weird...

And for those interested to see my list of chicks in the story who fucked others, well you're in luck:

Spoiler: Yes, I'm probably OCD...

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[ename144]

You're way off on that number. It's at least triple that. I count more that 50.

It does raise an interesting question for me, though. I have seen many comparisons of DPC's output of renders, animations, and overall gameplay time compared to other games/AVNs. But not having played a lot of others in this genre, maybe someone else here that's more versed than I am can answer this:

How does the scene count in the average BaDIK update compare to the updates by other developers?

I know ename144 has the data for Leap of Fate at least, but I've also seen him in the Chasing Sunsets and Intertwined threads as well, so bug him about it , but I don't know if I could compare any of them in scope with Being a Dik.

DPC is in a league of his own in terms of content, even if you might not like all of it.

I'm currently tracking development for BaDIK, Pale Carnations, City of Broken Dreamers, Leap of Faith, and The Unbroken (I'm following Where the Heart Is, too, but they don't give render counts very often).

Unfortunately, it's impossible to make a proper comparison because, as OFT implied, there are no clear rules for what constitutes an 'animation.' A 1 second looping blowjob counts the same as a 4 second sweeping panorama of a city or a 9 second clip of a girl inserting a butt plug. That's especially important since DPC seems to be adding lots of small animations these days, which may pad his numbers unfairly. Drifty reports animation progress for Leap of Faith as "frames of animation," which would be a lot more robust, but no one else does that and trying to reverse engineer a frame count is more work than I've been willing to do. Even the static render count is a bit dodgy since Pale Carnations uses Honey Select for its character models.

Still, if we want a *VERY* rough comparison, we can give it a try. I think the best option is to take the total static and animation counts for the most recently released update, then normalize that data per development day. It's a very blunt instrument, but it's the easiest way to keep the data in the same ballpark and has the added advantage that other games could be incorporated relatively easily. So here goes:

Spoiler: Highly Unequal Render Rate Comparison of Selected Games

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Take that for what it's worth.

 

[Lostanddamned]

at this point I think I'm kind of debunked almost everything, that some of you guys disguise as a secret NTR fetish, or hoping to use it as an ammunition for new kind of Trolling .
Lostanddamned . probably one of them who would gladly like to use this as new weapon for Trolling, He lives for Trolling, and the Jill Smile is getting a bit old now. But an NTR is a never ending amunition, obviously he would love it to have it. .

When you mentioned Bella and James, I expected you to bring up my theory about it, but it seems you forgot about it.

Besides since we already decided that Jilly bean is completely uninteresting and not worthy of our time, how about we discuss the fact that Josy wasn't a virgin and in fact seemed quite experienced with dicks.

 

[NebulousShooter]

I think I finally get it, maybe I'm the weird one and I accept it, the issue is that majority of players seem to be self inserting, while for the most part I play the MC I was given, making choices that would make sense for someone like him, not me, almost like roleplaying as the MC, if you will. Do I make choices only for the outcome I want to see? Sure, but thats because I know I can go back and play in a different way from a save. If I only had one playthrough in my life for sure it wouldn't be me living my power fantasy through the MC.

I recently went back through some of the other VN I play threads and especially the Acting Lessons one, just to see the shit show unfold and I keep reading arguments such as 'I don't play games to get sad', if she makes the MC jealous(God forbid ), she is done' etc. and I have to ask. How the fuck did you play any games in your life? How do you watch TV Shows, Movies? Do you play only Dress up Barbie where no matter what you do you win and watch Disney princess movies, where the villains is a joke and its always rainbows?!

One other thing I was wondering, why do you think Movies and TV show don't adopt the same dogma about not showing affectionate stuff that doesn't include the MC? Isn't it because having it makes the characters feel more alive? Or is it for 'us fetishists' ...

Strawmanning to reinforce your biases while accusing the others of strawmanning, this conversation is so dumb, I swear...
I hope at least 3rd party just scrolling through are having a laugh.


I concede that this genre seems to be designed around self inserting, living your fan fic and/or compensating for whatever irl shortcomings(my interpretation) and it was bound I eventually find an Internet corner where I 'don't fit in with the crowd'.

I don't understand the general mentality the same way I don't understand youth and tik tok and thats OK. Me bitching and moaning has no bearing on your enjoyment of the game and the vast majority of Authors seem to agree with you. Whether the reason is taste, vision, or financial, it doesn't matter. The point is you have nothing to worry about.

Spoiler

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[NebulousShooter]

But it could also have been Misha. There is a backpack next to John in the hallway and this backpack is seen in Rusty's room in the last Freeroam event. Rusty got closer to Misha in EP8 and Rusty also takes Misha with him in his car. Furthermore, other Dorm Girls are also present at the party, standing next to John.

Because Camila is on the menu at Quinn's restaurant, she may have fucked some guy somewhere. At the party with the Cathy Cluck, not only was one toilet locked, but also the one upstairs. Who knows what all goes on in the basement, Tommy's room.

I think its easier to narrow it down to Camilla since most people assume Quinn's involvement in the cluck.

You are right, I totally forgot that a lot of the dorm girls are seen around at parties. I think DPC can pick any number of persons being the culprit and make it work, since he can always point, 'hey look, they were always there'. It might seem cliché, but it works.

 

[Deleted member 4374281]

So I had the option this time to pick "Other" for the relationship at the end of Season 2. I'm curious as to how that will pan out in comparison to the others. Will there be opportunities to build something with the relationships that you decided not to pursue? Or does it leave the door open to characters that your character hasn't been with such as the nerd girl that you can throw into danger during the roleplay sessions.

This is definitely one of those games where I have felt the need to have multiple versions running just to see where the story goes. There are so many freakin options that it has to be a pain in the ass to script. Telltale should have hired this guy. Imagine how much steamier Wolf Among Us would have been.

 

[ChipLecsap]

When you mentioned Bella and James, I expected you to bring up my theory about it, but it seems you forgot about it.

Besides since we already decided that Jilly bean is completely uninteresting and not worthy of our time, how about we discuss the fact that Josy wasn't a virgin and in fact seemed quite experienced with dicks.

I did, just not in this comment, but I referred to it, with the whole the "Flashback is suspicious. ".I really like that theory actually, so until its proven wrong, I go with that, instead of the DPC avoiding it for fear of controversy

And you didn't hear me complain about it did you? The fact that she has experience makes her Sex scenes very good, all of Josy Sex scenes are very good. although there are room for improvement, Deepthroat, and Anal. But I guess I have no other choice, tuna to teach her these by myself, not an ungrateful task IMO.
Josy problems comes from a different sources

 

[ChipLecsap]

One other thing I was wondering, why do you think Movies and TV show don't adopt the same dogma about not showing affectionate stuff that doesn't include the MC? Isn't it because having it makes the characters feel more alive? Or is it for 'us fetishists' ...

dude , really? .This is just a joke right ? .

 

[NebulousShooter]

dude , really? .This is just a joke right ? .

Maybe? Not really, genuinely curious why people have a problem with it in one medium vs the others. But like I said, I didn't consider the self insert angle, so that explains it. I don't understand it, but I sorta see why its that way ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[ChipLecsap]

Maybe? Not really, genuinely curious why people have a problem with it in one medium vs the others. But like I said, I didn't consider the self insert angle, so that explains it. I don't understand it, but I sorta see why its that way ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It is not just the self insert, although you admit your choices is based around what you want to see, because you know, that you can roll back and see an another version of it. .

In the other mediums, You are purely a Watcher. nothing more. yet, You will developing feelings. You gonna be more interested in one aspect than the other. You may dislike a character more then an another, or a certian storyline. But you don't have influence over it no matter What.
In a Video game, You are not just a Watcher, You get the chance to shape and influence the things for your own liking, In what kind of extend you get the chance to shape the things depend on the game.

Even if you dont do it as deep as some kind of Role-playing. Your choices will be your choices, based on your own feelings or likes.

That's the difference.

And surely there was movies, or tv shows, or even books, where you would like if a certain character would be removed, or getting less screen time, or the generality that if it was up to you you would like it to be diferent, or simply you would just like it better that way.
No other medium allow you this, except Video Games.

 

[LizaS]

Inb4 DPC decides to give her an ending in which MC becomes the new owner of the Pink Rose and Madame ends up being his main bitch.

Though the Others part branching worries me. If he opts to give each side LI a route of their own (like Quinn, Riona, Camila, Nora and etc.) it's going to be way too complicated to branch properly with all the choices and stuff.

Now you make me wonder...
after you choose "others" does Madame possibly appear among all the girls?


tell me no, tell me no, please tell me no

 

[NebulousShooter]

It is not just the self insert, although you admit your choices is based around what you want to see, because you know, that you can roll back and see an another version of it. .

In the other mediums, You are purely a Watcher. nothing more. yet, You will developing feelings. You gonna be more interested in one aspect than the other. You may dislike a character more then an another, or a certian storyline. But you don't have influence over it no matter What.
In a Video game, You are not just a Watcher, You get the change to shape and influence the things for your own liking, In what kind of extend you get the chance to shape the things depend on the game.

Even if you dont do it as deep as some kind of Role-playing. Your choices will be your choices, based on your own feelings or likes.

That's the difference.

And surely there was movies, or tv shows, or even books, where you would like if a certain character would be removed, or getting less screen time, or the generality that if it was up to you you would like it to be diferent, or simply you would just like it better that way.
No other medium allow you this, except Video Games.

Like I said, I'm relatively new to the genre, probably tried around 10ish Vn, not even finished all, so maybe I am the one that is applying unfair expectations, coming from other mediums.

Looking on the first page of every single thread and seeing the same 'Will it have harem and will all LI be virgins' sprinkle the occasional 'incest patch?' I can't shake the feeling that I'm not actually getting the author's vision but a curated version shaped around those expectations and the financial incentive.

Maybe I am wrong in even assuming that the author is trying to tell more, but I personally feel the genre could be so much more if it was not narrowed down to the same specific parameters, copy and pasted over and over that it makes you feel that if you played one VN, you played all of them.

 

[SamualHand]

I thought Camila, Riona, Quinn, Nicole and others kept their pussies just for me. The world is very unfair and cruel.

They told me the same.... so we are two at least. I'll call that cheating!

 

[BigbyWulfe]

this VN kills my ram. this is how you make a VN for now on thats how you make em. that said this is fucking awesome. the amount of detail and depth given to each character is amazing. truly amazing. a bit a drama touched with serious issues and comedy. several scenes caused me to bust a gut, i couldn't breath my face hurt and the following day my abs were so sore i could barely get out of bed. this is truly a masterpiece. i'm sorry but because of a certain scene in acting lessons straight up fuck that VN.