VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.11.1] [DrPinkCake]

[Oliver Wendell Homely]

Come on, this is getting ridiculous now. Episode 9 has been in development for over six months already, and it seems like we're still 1-2 months away from a release. I think that six months is too long even for the entire episode, let alone to only be at 80-85 % completion...

DPC has clearly let the scope of this game get out of hand, because there is no legitimate reason for why an update would require close to 5,000 new renders. My only conclusion is that he is spending an ungodly amount of time making scenes for every single secondary character in the game, and building free roam events that could be an entire game in and of themselves. And for what? Does it honestly make the game that much better?

It feels like this has been a trend ever since Episode 5, with each update essentially being centered around a couple of massive free roam events, with bits of story sprinked in here and there. The game has lost its direction, and has expanded to and unreasonable level where there is an absurd amount of content for things that don't matter to the overall story, such as mini-games, free roam events and too many secondary characters. I cannot claim, with my conscience intact, that I consider the recent episodes to have been so much better thant the first season of Being a DIK, even though they take 50 % longer to develop.

And before I get a ton of backlash, I realize that DPC delivers quality that is absolutely terrific, and I can enjoy all the content just as much as the next person. However, the current trend suggests that this game will soon be release on a once-per-year basis. Given the we probably have 8-10 episodes remaining, we're looking at completion in 2030. That is not reasonable, and DPC clearly needs to get back on track so that updates are release more frequently.

We are not waiting six (or more) months for an "update"; we are waiting for an episode. These are two completely different things. In BaDIK's story arc, each episode is a deliberately crafted section, each with its own conflict, climax (or multiple ones, har har), and drama. Each ends on a cliffhanger or major story note. In short, longer development times for subsequent episodes are inevitable with this kind of player-choice-led storytelling. The only other choice is for the developer to diminish subsequent episodes, which eventually will cause interest in the game to erode or even collapse.

The episodic approach of the game makes each release mandatory playing for most people. Small updates inevitably do not include many players' chosen love interest or they dislike that there's no real advancement of the story; as a result, pirate players start checking for updates much less frequently and those players who put their money where their mouths are stop their financial support because they no longer like the dev's work.

While it's true that DPC wants to improve the episodes by showing off his increasingly longer animations and more photorealistic renders, he is also telling an increasingly complex and sophisticated story with more and more characters. Also, as episode 9 is going to be the first after our romance choice at the end of 8, expectations will be high: expectations of good story and hot scenes, yes, but also expectations that our MC will get to spend lots of quality time with our new girlfriend(s). That's lots of required content, including at least one super hot lewd scene with the new girlfriend(s). On top of that, DPC needs to move all the non-sex-related storylines and events forward, creating plots that are likely to become increasingly varied as our choices accumulate. No doubt this is why DPC ended BaDIK on a major choice; he must have felt he needed to reduce the complexity of the story. This forced simplification in order to manage deadlines even happens to major game studios. Just look at what happened to Cyberpunk 2077 or Mass Effect 3.

All that aside, it amuses me enormously to see people on a pirate site complaining about the dev "milking supporters," and I never the same complaints made on Patreon, where the only supporters who matter are. Patrons are genuine supporters, not customers. Patrons are not simply buying a product. Like the patrons of art and culture in antiquity, Patreon patrons support artists. That means that patrons trust their artists to create their work as they--the artists--see fit. As long as the trust remains, the artist is going to do just that. If you really want to send DPC the message that you're not happy with the wait time, join his Patreon for a month, then cancel the next month after leaving him a note, saying: "This cow is now a bull. You will milk me no more, sir." Maybe DPC will get the hint and ask:

 

[Oliver Wendell Homely]

I've been saying that DPC is milking the development time for a while now. Glad to see there's some momentum behind this idea. A full year between episode releases is absurd. The man could easily create as good of a game (possibly even better) with a small staff supporting his efforts AND releases would be more frequent. Don't buy this bullshit of some "solo vision" that he can only achieve alone. He's not Joyce writing Ulysses, he's making an indie adult game, and his competitors are rapidly catching up (and passing) his work.

Something else to consider - Opening episodes of seasons have rarely been blockbusters and have usually been used to set up the rest of the season. There's a good chance the payoff for waiting a full year isn't as big as people think (not yet, at least).

Don't even get me started on the lack of previews. He has 4000 images and he can't use any of them? Total nonsense.

But at least we get a Halloween episode in... November. That's cool.

ICSTOR? Is that you?

 

[Ilhares]

If you really want to send DPC the message that you're not happy with the wait time, join his Patreon for a month, then cancel the next month after leaving him a note, saying: "This cow is now a bull. You will milk me no more, sir."

While I don't believe I have ever accused DPC of milking (because I have seen some devs that seriously do), I will say this. The excuses/reasoning used on some delays, combined with him initially saying ep 9 was his intention to start with shorter/smaller episodes again, and looking at what's come out of him in the last several updates make me think..

"Sure, maybe he's not milking it yet, but he's sure getting a good feel-up of that teat."

 

[allanl9020142]

Where? The only dev who I've seen who has even come close to passing DPC in render quality is Ocean and his games are also on a very slow update schedule (although he appears to be speeding up). Both of his games though are at a very early stage so the stories do not compare to BaD yet, although I have high hopes for Summer's Gone.

No dev is even close to reach DPC's level of quality in both graphics and story.

I think I like Ocean's renders more. I mean I really like the aesthetics. In fact, it's the only reason I keep playing it. The writing is kind of cringe and forget about suspending disbelief, I'm throwing disbelief out the window.

 

[Cabin Fever]

200,000 units sold of FreshWoman on steam. Now Imagine those numbers for Being a DIK and DrPinkCake still cant hire a team. Really saying things like he wants to have control over his own game. He will be the boss. Everything that will be in the game is what he wants.
Really he should stop being greedy and hire people when his game probably sold more units than most Indie developers.
He is just milking people at this point and if he makes just 10% of what he makes now it will make no difference on the game.
Call him out people.

How to say "I'm just an impatient horny fapper with less than 2 brain cells and doesn't know the difference between project management and creating art" without saying "I'm just an impatient horny fapper with less than 2 brain cells and doesn't know the difference between project management and creating art".

It has never been about being a boss or how much more or less DPC can make. It has always been about creating what he wants to his own exacting standards, and the joy he derives from doing just that.

 

[Ilhares]

It has always been about creating what he wants to his own exacting standards, and the joy he derives from doing just that.

Going to disagree with you on the latter point. Once upon a time, maybe, but since he made the focus of it being his livelihood, it's not about the joy he derives, it's absolutely about the money. Just ask our boy SomboSteel about that one.

I've had to work on projects with other people before. Sometimes things can be done and work well. Often times it's a hindrance. When I agreed to take over hosting a game server for folks I made it clear that I would, but I had one simple policy. There is no 'rule by committee'. I will absolutely listen to people and their input, but I am not obligated to bow to their wishes at any point. I was really tired of people wanting to halfass certain things "just to get it done", where I feel if it wasn't done right, it wasn't done at all, it was just another layer of fuckups that had to be fixed.

Now you've got DPC, the man with his vision. He knows what he wants, he knows how he wants it done.
Finding somebody who'd want to help you on a project? Probably not too difficult.
Finding somebody who is also skilled/good at doing what you want to do? A little more challenging.
Finding somebody who shares your vision and complements it? That's more challenging.
Finding somebody who is all of the above, and gets the work reliably done on time? Good fucking luck.

As I understand it, DPC does have somebody else doing the 2D art, but their style is pretty unimpressive, almost all the girls look the same outside of a few minor cosmetic details. It also has absolutely zero impact on the game at large, so we neither gain nor lose anything here.

I would, in almost every scenario I can imagine, prefer having no help at all rather than the kind of help that I have to go through later with a fine-toothed comb to correct, due to any misunderstandings or disagreement on any particular point/method.

I sure was shit wouldn't be splitting the money I make to survive and feed a family with if I had to do that. 200% manpower does not result in 200% production speed, so it damn well isn't going to be worth 50% income loss (or whatever ratios may be used).

 

[Cabin Fever]

Going to disagree with you on the latter point. Once upon a time, maybe, but since he made the focus of it being his livelihood, it's not about the joy he derives, it's absolutely about the money. Just ask our boy SomboSteel about that one.

I've had to work on projects with other people before. Sometimes things can be done and work well. Often times it's a hindrance. When I agreed to take over hosting a game server for folks I made it clear that I would, but I had one simple policy. There is no 'rule by committee'. I will absolutely listen to people and their input, but I am not obligated to bow to their wishes at any point. I was really tired of people wanting to halfass certain things "just to get it done", where I feel if it wasn't done right, it wasn't done at all, it was just another layer of fuckups that had to be fixed.

Now you've got DPC, the man with his vision. He knows what he wants, he knows how he wants it done.
Finding somebody who'd want to help you on a project? Probably not too difficult.
Finding somebody who is also skilled/good at doing what you want to do? A little more challenging.
Finding somebody who shares your vision and complements it? That's more challenging.
Finding somebody who is all of the above, and gets the work reliably done on time? Good fucking luck.

As I understand it, DPC does have somebody else doing the 2D art, but their style is pretty unimpressive, almost all the girls look the same outside of a few minor cosmetic details. It also has absolutely zero impact on the game at large, so we neither gain nor lose anything here.

I would, in almost every scenario I can imagine, prefer having no help at all rather than the kind of help that I have to go through later with a fine-toothed comb to correct, due to any misunderstandings or disagreement on any particular point/method.

I sure was shit wouldn't be splitting the money I make to survive and feed a family with if I had to do that. 200% manpower does not result in 200% production speed, so it damn well isn't going to be worth 50% income loss (or whatever ratios may be used).

I think we actually basically agree here. The only difference between us is how much DPC is driven by money. No doubt he is to a certain degree. But the point I was trying to make was that DPC is not milking, which is what the guy I responded to was saying. And I think we agree on that too.

 

[@blitz13@]

any news for continuing the interlude?except from these two scenes...

 

[DeFuZe]

any news for continuing the interlude?except from these two scenes...

no

 

[felicemastronzo]

what answer did you give yourself about the ten "minim" runs to see all the content of the next chapter?

let's start with the obvious 5, i.e., those resulting from the choice in the last chapter, and for simplicity's sake consider the faithful run as the basis
1 Bella
2 Jill
3 Maya+Josy
4 Others
5 Sage

To these are probably added the two variants
6 Bella bis, having also courted Jill
7 Sage bis, having had a relationship with Jade

and up to these 7 I am pretty sure, but after that?

there could also be a variation of Jill, in case we broke Bella's heart, but I don't see that as very likely

being there Burke could become important again whether or not we disclosed the footage of Jade again in the case of having courted Sage as well (8)

there could be a further variation of Quinn in others, depending on whether or not we have also courted Sage (9)

then there are some other situations that will probably have some development, but I don't see al need for a specific run:

there could be Zoey with the two variations depending on the one major choice in the interlude
there could be some consequence as to whether or not we were successful in rebuilding the DIKs' headquarters
there could also be Cathe's return, but she doesn't need a standalone run, there is room for her in Others (like Nicole and Lily we saw in the previews)
it should probably also have some consequence as we have been dealing with Heather

what else can you think of?

 

[FappingWorldwide]

what answer did you give yourself about the ten "minim" runs to see all the content of the next chapter?

let's start with the obvious 5, i.e., those resulting from the choice in the last chapter, and for simplicity's sake consider the faithful run as the basis
1 Bella
2 Jill
3 Maya+Josy
4 Others
5 Sage

To these are probably added the two variants
6 Bella bis, having also courted Jill
7 Sage bis, having had a relationship with Jade

and up to these 7 I am pretty sure, but after that?

there could also be a variation of Jill, in case we broke Bella's heart, but I don't see that as very likely

being there Burke could become important again whether or not we disclosed the footage of Jade again in the case of having courted Sage as well (8)

there could be a further variation of Quinn in others, depending on whether or not we have also courted Sage (9)

then there are some other situations that will probably have some development, but I don't see al need for a specific run:

there could be Zoey with the two variations depending on the one major choice in the interlude
there could be some consequence as to whether or not we were successful in rebuilding the DIKs' headquarters
there could also be Cathe's return, but she doesn't need a standalone run, there is room for her in Others (like Nicole and Lily we saw in the previews)
it should probably also have some consequence as we have been dealing with Heather

what else can you think of?

This might be a bit out there, but I’m thinking that some of the HOTs side girls may cause some variation.

If things advance with the Chad storyline, then a “strong” bond with Melanie and Sarah, or either one of them, could come into play. That is to say a DIK run where the player has been with them at every possible opportunity. We’ve already gotten a small variation already when Sarah grabs the MCs cock under the table during lunch with Sage and Quinn.

I think Melanie looks like that jock Alex’s sister. Alex seems to be close with Chad, maybe he and Mel have known him for a long time, which might explain how Melanie knows about Chad being a closeted homosexual. So maybe if you’re invested in them, you may discover some hint that relates to unsolved story elements.

In addition Riona is quite popular amongst some of the players, and she has her own mini-path with the stalking, texting, etc. She’s not as close with Quinn as she used to be, and with Lily worming her way in, one might just again get something there. Camilla is also her friend so maybe points with her also matters.

Other than that? Maybe if Nora starts teaching this episode then that could give some variation, but yeah I think you’ve covered most of it.

 

[Kassandara]

what answer did you give yourself about the ten "minim" runs to see all the content of the next chapter?

let's start with the obvious 5, i.e., those resulting from the choice in the last chapter, and for simplicity's sake consider the faithful run as the basis
1 Bella
2 Jill
3 Maya+Josy
4 Others
5 Sage

I guess there could be something about Maya+Josy IF you heavily favored other girl during season 2. The relationship could start to crumble down but honestly I don't see it happening myself so fast.

Also there could be major choices which can heavily impact a path and alter rest of the episode

 

[felicemastronzo]

I guess there could be something about Maya+Josy IF you heavily favored other girl during season 2. The relationship could start to crumble down but honestly I don't see it happening myself so fast.

Also there could be major choices which can heavily impact a path and alter rest of the episode

in fact since MC has yet to speak with Maya and Josy ,if he have chosen them, one of the runs could be theirs should a series of actions or relationships lead to a negative outcome

another very remote possibility: should the issue of Maya's loan be even seemingly closed they could begin runs dedicated only to Josy or Maya, and even these would be on dedicated runs tied to certain decisions

 

[znar25]

Hang in there everyone. Hope you are having a good weekend.

 

[lipe2410]

Hang in there everyone. Hope you are having a good weekend.
View attachment 2062221

It got so much better right now

 

[HikenNoAcee]

is the game stopped share update from F95 or dev doesn't update the game since 6 month ?

 

[felicemastronzo]

is the game stopped share update from F95 or dev doesn't update the game since 6 month ?

the developer updates the pateons on the status of development every Friday and someone reports this statement here in the thread
except when the release is really close, he never gets out of line with the release date

as far as we know so far definitely not before the end of October, probably November, but it could also be December

 

[Geralt From Rivia]

is the game stopped share update from F95 or dev doesn't update the game since 6 month ?

No, the development cycle has grown to 8 months at least due to the size of the updates, they have become huge. We are now nearing the end of the development cycle and we have about two months left at the most.

 

[HikenNoAcee]

the developer updates the pateons on the status of development every Friday and someone reports this statement here in the thread
except when the release is really close, he never gets out of line with the release date

as far as we know so far definitely not before the end of October, probably November, but it could also be December

thanks for spare time and answer mate <3

 

[seniorboop]

While I don't believe I have ever accused DPC of milking (because I have seen some devs that seriously do), I will say this. The excuses/reasoning used on some delays, combined with him initially saying ep 9 was his intention to start with shorter/smaller episodes again, and looking at what's come out of him in the last several updates make me think..

"Sure, maybe he's not milking it yet, but he's sure getting a good feel-up of that teat."

From what ive noticed this is seemingly the natural evolution of a VN.

"When I hit X patrons I can afford Y, resulting in faster updates!"
"After this upcoming update I plan to move to smaller, more reasonable updates."

How many times have you seen those statements and how many times has it been true?

I don't consider this milking though, at least not in DPC's case. Rather, I see this as the result of working in an environment in which scope is never kept in check.

IC$TOR is a prime example of milking whereas devs like DPC simply don't know when to stop. I wouldnt be surprised at all if the next update takes 10-12 months, the following update 11-13, so on and so on.

I think it ultimately comes down to the individual what their threshold is.