VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.11.1] [DrPinkCake]

[zoyle]

I kinda disagree with that. I have to mention that i have only seen friend path so i don't know if she becomes more assertive on the other. Right now she doesn't strike me as a person who would say no, mainly because of her blind belief and desperation for that tuition, at least not without getting Josy or MC involved. That being said it probably won't happen because there's a certain 3 letter acronym missing in the tags.

If anything, on the relationship path you learn more about exactly how vulnerable and alone Maya is. If you enter the 3 person relationship, there's a scene where Josy needs to meet with her dad who has brought her stuff from home. This scene can happen if you are friends with them (Josy will ask the MC to come). If they are in a relationship, MC agrees w/o you getting a prompt.

In the relationship, after Josy's dad leaves, the player is given an option. They can accompany Josy bringing her things back to the dorm room. This leads to a nice conversation and what is probably the best sex scene in the game between MC and Josy. Alternatively, MC can tell Josy that he's gonna go back into the party and find Maya (who did not come along becasue she didn't want to upset Josy's dad). If you choose that path, there's a scene with MC and Maya where she confides to him how sad she was because seeing Josy's dad be supportive and forgive her reminds her that her parents don't treat her that way, and that Josy, MC and Derek are all she has. MC and Maya then successfully have sex, only to have Josy walk in on them afterwards. That decision is tracked in the character bios and in the end-of-chapter summaries for Maya and Josy, so it's being tracked going forward.

 

[xsssssssss]

It's likely the only thing that could 'save' Sage as leader of the sorority and possibly the sorority itself is if she initiated discovery of what was going on and brought it to the authorities in the first place. That changes the entire axis of the interaction.

I wouldn't be super surprised to see the plotline go something like Quinn pressures Maya > MC learns from Maya > MC takes wildly inappropriate thing (probably thing that isn't on Josy's list at all) to Sage > Sage is tipped off and starts to learn what's going on. Whether the various people along the way confide in or believe the MC is, of course, not necessarily guaranteed, but given that Maya's lesbian with no experience outside the MC, I would bet that causes some resistance that Quinn wouldn't expect and would cause even a Friends-only MC to learn about it.

That might save sage’s college career but not her role or sorority.

I don’t see Plotline going that way. It really doesn’t make any sense for someone using the services to want to go to sage. My guess is that events with bigger bads above Quinn will interrupt her attempts to bring maya into the fold. sage will find out eventually on her own as will maya and that your level of involvement will affect your relationship with them. We’ll likely get involved in saving hots from exposure and personally I hope I can help my girl Quinn survive it.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Is it though? Do we know for sure? I wouldn't ever start something like this personally (and I'm tempted, time stops me) without actually having the complete story at the minimum noted out with a clear direction/idea of plot points, endings etc. I know AVN's are not professional in terms of the game/writing industry, but to start one with no clear idea of where it's going, just making it on the fly seems...sloppy at best.

DPC has said that they have all the major story beats planned out in terms of both what they are and when they will happen, but everything else is made up as they go. So they basically write each episode as they come whilst also incorporating some of the major story elements along the way in whatever episode they are planned to be in.

 

[zoyle]

The storyline is self defeating because Quinn invites Maya to join the HOT's and yet we know that Maya doesn't have the personality to whore herself out.

Yet on the opposite side of that she is semi selling her soul/body to get into the sorority by doing things with the MC. The only saving grace of that side is that she actually likes the MC so those might be things she would willingly do anyway.

I think you're overlooking the extra layer of tension from Maya considering herself a lesbian. That she is considering doing this stuff with MC - who she clearly cares about and is the first guy she's ever been attracted to - despite, uh, being in direct conflict with her own sexual identity, is a significantly bigger choice than just 'mess around with a guy to get into the sorority'. The early dirty scenes with Maya make it pretty clear she has some significant mixed feelings about even being attracted to a guy in the first place.

I think what you see with Maya (and, indeed, with the MC and many other characters in this game) is an illustration of just how powerful peer pressure is in social situations with young people. Maya probably doesn't look at doing sex stuff to get into the HOTs as prostituting herself - she looks at it as being pressured to do what everyone else is (presumably) doing, which is why warning her that Quinn is up to no good might make her more likely to think no, everyone else ISNT doing this particular thing. And many people - men and women, especially young ones, and especially isolated and insecure young ones - will do things they DEFINITELY know they shouldn't do when receiving sufficient peer pressure. Maya's situation and personality are VERY similar to exactly the kind of person that is easy to influence in this manner: She doesn't have many friends, she feels isolated from her family, she thinks joining the sorority will save her. Quinn is going to manipulate her on exactly that basis with peer pressure, and many people - especially girls like Maya - will give in, go along, and do things they regret. For many people, that's basically the story of their social lives in late high school and early college, and that's especially true in the greek scene where hazing and peer pressure are particularly pervasive forces.

Precisely. Yet some folk have the impression that DPC is the greatest writer to have ever lived and written a VN....


Almost definitely 100% yes.


Hahahahah brilliant.


Also very accurate. She trusts the MC not to take advantage in that situation, even more so if Josy was involved. All we can go off ultimately is how DPC has written the characters. Using this information, no way in hell would Maya ever become a whore just for the tuition, no matter how desperate she was. Just wouldn't happen. I could actually see (as much as I hate writing this) Josy being more inclined.

But as someone else mentioned, there is no 3 letter tag on this, so regardless, it probably isn't going to happen either way, even if there will be a dilemma and drama to the effect of.

The only place here I'd disagree with you is motive. I'd agree Josy has a more openly sexual personality, but the game goes out of its way to make clear that her dad and her have made up and he's saved to pay her tuition. She doesnt NEED the money.

The game is set up to make us believe that Maya does need the money in order to stay in school. Maya has a motive that Josy doesn't and it makes all the difference.

 

[Cndyrvr4lf]

Again, that is the nature of fictional stories but you just have to roll with it and accept it for what it is. It's like in the Austin Powers movies where they make that tongue-in-cheek jab at the Bond movies by pointing out how they could just shoot Austin Powers in the head when they have the chance rather trying to use some elaborate, over-the-top method of killing him.

What can he tell her? "I fucked Camila's ass through a glory hole after I called up Quinn"? I don't think that's quite what Maya was looking for when she asked the MC to be honest with her and the MC has the good sense to keep that to himself, not just because of how Maya would react to that, but also because he doesn't know the full story of why Camila did that. He just knows that it happened after calling Quinn which causes him to be wary of her and he simply tells Maya to be wary as well which is really as much as he can do at this point.

There are a million ways to have that conversation without telling Maya everything. I guess I would rather ruin my relationship with Maya by telling her everything than allow her to walk blindly into a situation where she could get hurt. I'm not that selfish to endanger someone over a desire to get my dick wet.

 

[Phynix]

If anything, on the relationship path you learn more about exactly how vulnerable and alone Maya is. If you enter the 3 person relationship, there's a scene where Josy needs to meet with her dad who has brought her stuff from home. This scene can happen if you are friends with them (Josy will ask the MC to come). If they are in a relationship, MC agrees w/o you getting a prompt.

In the relationship, after Josy's dad leaves, the player is given an option. They can accompany Josy bringing her things back to the dorm room. This leads to a nice conversation and what is probably the best sex scene in the game between MC and Josy. Alternatively, MC can tell Josy that he's gonna go back into the party and find Maya (who did not come along becasue she didn't want to upset Josy's dad). If you choose that path, there's a scene with MC and Maya where she confides to him how sad she was because seeing Josy's dad be supportive and forgive her reminds her that her parents don't treat her that way, and that Josy, MC and Derek are all she has. MC and Maya then successfully have sex, only to have Josy walk in on them afterwards. That decision is tracked in the character bios and in the end-of-chapter summaries for Maya and Josy, so it's being tracked going forward.

So minus the sex, i didn't miss out on anything really. Probably too early for any major changes in her personality.

 

[Cndyrvr4lf]

I think you're overlooking the extra layer of tension from Maya considering herself a lesbian. That she is considering doing this stuff with MC - who she clearly cares about and is the first guy she's ever been attracted to - despite, uh, being in direct conflict with her own sexual identity, is a significantly bigger choice than just 'mess around with a guy to get into the sorority'. The early dirty scenes with Maya make it pretty clear she has some significant mixed feelings about even being attracted to a guy in the first place.

I think what you see with Maya (and, indeed, with the MC and many other characters in this game) is an illustration of just how powerful peer pressure is in social situations with young people. Maya probably doesn't look at doing sex stuff to get into the HOTs as prostituting herself - she looks at it as being pressured to do what everyone else is (presumably) doing, which is why warning her that Quinn is up to no good might make her more likely to think no, everyone else ISNT doing this particular thing. And many people - men and women, especially young ones, and especially isolated and insecure young ones - will do things they DEFINITELY know they shouldn't do when receiving sufficient peer pressure. Maya's situation and personality are VERY similar to exactly the kind of person that is easy to influence in this manner: She doesn't have many friends, she feels isolated from her family, she thinks joining the sorority will save her. Quinn is going to manipulate her on exactly that basis with peer pressure, and many people - especially girls like Maya - will give in, go along, and do things they regret. For many people, that's basically the story of their social lives in late high school and early college, and that's especially true in the greek scene where hazing and peer pressure are particularly pervasive forces.

The only place here I'd disagree with you is motive. I'd agree Josy has a more openly sexual personality, but the game goes out of its way to make clear that her dad and her have made up and he's saved to pay her tuition. She doesnt NEED the money.

The game is set up to make us believe that Maya does need the money in order to stay in school. Maya has a motive that Josy doesn't and it makes all the difference.

She is deluding herself then. I guess I was spared all that by not being involved in the greek scene when I went to school. I also have never really cared what others thought of me as a person. Honestly I have only really worried about what I think, after all I'm the only person I have to see in the mirror everyday. As long as I am happy with who I am that's good enough. I just can't understand how someone could be so wrapped up in what someone else thinks about them that they would sabotage themselves in order to achieve that.

 

[xsssssssss]

maybe

but it's theoretical, why would Quinn take all the blame?

In that theoretical scenario, She may want to protect her people as Best she can.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

There are a million ways to have that conversation without telling Maya everything. I guess I would rather ruin my relationship with Maya by telling her everything than allow her to walk blindly into a situation where she could get hurt. I'm not that selfish to endanger someone over a desire to get my dick wet.

What is exactly makes the MC selfish in this situation? He fucked Camila through a gloryhole, but how does he know that she didn't do that of her own free will? How could he know that Quinn is making her do it? All he knows is that he called Quinn and then he fucked Camila. That's it. He doesn't have the full the context so there isn't much to really tell Maya. All that's really happened is that he got sex after he called Quinn and it's made him a little wary of her. He has no reason to suspect that Maya is in any kind of danger with Quinn, but just that Quinn is a bit dodgy and Maya should also be wary.

 

[zoyle]

Precisely. Yet some folk have the impression that DPC is the greatest writer to have ever lived and written a VN....


Almost definitely 100% yes.


Hahahahah brilliant.


Also very accurate. She trusts the MC not to take advantage in that situation, even more so if Josy was involved. All we can go off ultimately is how DPC has written the characters. Using this information, no way in hell would Maya ever become a whore just for the tuition, no matter how desperate she was. Just wouldn't happen. I could actually see (as much as I hate writing this) Josy being more inclined.

There are a million ways to have that conversation without telling Maya everything. I guess I would rather ruin my relationship with Maya by telling her everything than allow her to walk blindly into a situation where she could get hurt. I'm not that selfish to endanger someone over a desire to get my dick wet.

But as someone else mentioned, there is no 3 letter tag on this, so regardless, it probably isn't going to happen either way, even if there will be a dilemma and drama to the effect of.

MC isn't necessarily a user of the service and doesn't necessarily have that information to share with Maya in the first place - you can refuse the number, and you can also accept it and never use the service. The warning scene is placed (intentionally, I imagine) prior to any opportunity for you to use Quinn's services so that there don't have to be branches of MC's warning based on what he knows so early in the game. He tells her what any playthrough would know (Quinn's up to no good) prior to having access to any more specific information.

Now, you can maybe make an argument he should tell her later. I think the biggest problem with that is that most of the period where he should do that they're not speaking (eg episode 4). I'll repeat my question for Cndyr again: where, exactly, or what event do you think should spur the MC to be like 'no no, absolutely not Maya you have to GTFO from the HOTs because you are super in danger'.

 

[Cndyrvr4lf]

MC isn't necessarily a user of the service and doesn't necessarily have that information to share with Maya in the first place - you can refuse the number, and you can also accept it and never use the service. The warning scene is placed (intentionally, I imagine) prior to any opportunity for you to use Quinn's services so that there don't have to be branches of MC's warning based on what he knows so early in the game. He tells her what any playthrough would know (Quinn's up to no good) prior to having access to any more specific information.

Now, you can maybe make an argument he should tell her later. I think the biggest problem with that is that most of the period where he should do that they're not speaking (eg episode 4). I'll repeat my question for Cndyr again: where, exactly, or what event do you think should spur the MC to be like 'no no, absolutely not Maya you have to GTFO from the HOTs because you are super in danger'.

I did answer that you missed it. I am not going back to find it. We have added 10+ pages in just this series

 

[zoyle]

She is deluding herself then. I guess I was spared all that by not being involved in the greek scene when I went to school. I also have never really cared what others thought of me as a person. Honestly I have only really worried about what I think, after all I'm the only person I have to see in the mirror everyday. As long as I am happy with who I am that's good enough. I just can't understand how someone could be so wrapped up in what someone else thinks about them that they would sabotage themselves in order to achieve that.

I mean that's mostly a pretty healthy attitude but I have a hard time believing anyone who tells me they've never in their life experienced an unhealthy, dangerous peer pressure scenario. Even if you weren't popular or didn't have many friends, this stuff comes up. I was far from a popular kid in high school or college, but I still can tell you a story about when some friends of mine decided they wanted to find out what I was like when I was drunk (I never drink), convinced me to come out with a club with them and then pressed me to drink dramatically more than I intended, leading to one of the only nights of my life I literally don't remember. Peer pressure happens in almost every social scenario, but especially so with young people, and people who are lonely, insecure or isolated pretty much constantly make bad decisions because of it.

A big one in particular I think is that even if MC is using quinn's service he doesn't know where the money is going. The situation is very different if Quinn is arranging encounters with girls who want to participate and the girls are getting the money themselves, than if Quinn is actually pimping them. We know that's the case, but our MC has little reason to know that and even less experience with anything like that to work from. It's just not realistic to think he should be as certain about Quinn's bad motives as the player.

 

[xsssssssss]

A big one in particular I think is that even if MC is using quinn's service he doesn't know where the money is going. The situation is very different if Quinn is arranging encounters with girls who want to participate and the girls are getting the money themselves, than if Quinn is actually pimping them. We know that's the case, but our MC has little reason to know that and even less experience with anything like that to work from. It's just not realistic to think he should be as certain about Quinn's bad motives as the player.

The player isn’t certain of her bad motives. We don’t know where all the money is going yet.

 

[Craduco]

Bella needs a new hairstyle imo

 

[moskyx]

From a purely narrative/stylistic point of view, do you think that being able, as players, to watch some cutscenes our MC don't see is somehow damaging our gaming experience?

We're now discussing about Quinn's scheme and it's true that we the players know way more of it than any of our MCs thanks to those cutscenes. While this is how most of films and TV shows work, in those we are just witnesses of events, we don't have the option to play a part on them and it helps us to cope with the 'wrong' choices made by our favourite characters. But here, playing as a certain character, we have more inputs of what's actually going on than our character, and this can lead to some disappointment when we can't do what "we know" we should do. Obviously being able to have a broader look than our MC can be positive because it helps to create some tension and let creators show some power dynamics that are important to the story, but it can also lead to some negative issues as we're talking now.

I honestly prefer to discover things at the same time as my character, it helps me to be more comfortable with the choices made because I feel I made the one I wanted to make with the info available at that moment, even if it proves to be a wrong one in the end. In AL we had that kind of POV narrative and, in that sense, it worked quite well. There were hints here and there so you can't say DPC was fooling you all the way, but we came to the shocking moment with the same info our MC had, so we could understand and share his shock. That's not gonna happen in BaDIK

 

[zoyle]

There's a lot of this 'piracy' word bandied around here. If the game was purely on Steam say for example, the game was pureluy obtained by 'buying' it...then this is a piracy site.

These games are few and far between. If you accept donations, you are giving your game away. It's free, therefore there is no piracy here. There is no legal jargon to agree to either. It's a free product that they accept donations for. If AVN devs have an issue with this, then maybe they should stop accepting 'donations' and make it purely a paywall product with DRM such as Steam. Even if they could give a dollar a month, some people are so obsessed and indoctrinated with Steam, they will still prefer to 'buy' it there.

However they won't, as they know most of their revenue stream (donated) comes from people on sites such as this. It's a double edged sword. Bottom line is, most AVN's are not sold, they are working on them anyway and accept 'donations' from admirers. DPC apparently whines his revenue stream keeps changing (my heart bleeds), well then maybe charge for your product and skip the donations. He won't (none of them will) as they know purely charging for it won't make them enough money (unless they do it purely for the actual fun of it, and that rarely lasts very long).

I do agree on many other points of your post especially no serious programer is ever going to put a porn game on thier CV.

Just my 2cents on this piracy issue.



Josy is all for committment btw. Read that scene again properly. It's Maya who is unsure of firm committment in case it goes wrong and she loses everything. Not Josy.

I just clicked on a notification and it took me back to this post of yours from a few pages back, but I think which girl expresses interest in 'moving slowly' depends on which girl you have sex with in Ep 5. The conversation about moving slowly emotionally starts via the phone calls and texts the MC makes from Isabella's house, and he makes those calls to whichever girl he had sex with. If he went with Josy and slept with her, she brings it up first. If he went with Maya and slept with her, she brings it up first. Then Maya is the one who elaborates further when they have the little gathering in the 2nd-to-last scene of the episode - I'd agree she's probably the instigator, but Josy also expresses the same fear of losing both her loves if it goes wrong in the dorm room before her sex scene. I'd agree Josy is likely to be commitment-ready faster, and there's a variety of good reasons for that, including that she's known the MC a lot longer than Maya, that she's not dealing with changing her entire sexual identity, and that she's not as isolated and dependent on the two of them the way that Maya is. Of course, that's likely to work in the opposite direction - Maya's probably going to be the one who emotionally invests the fastest, for all of those same reasons. That's the way it usually works out.

 

[felicemastronzo]

From a purely narrative/stylistic point of view, do you think that being able, as players, to watch some cutscenes our MC don't see is somehow damaging our gaming experience?

We're now discussing about Quinn's scheme and it's true that we the players know way more of it than any of our MCs thanks to those cutscenes. While this is how most of films and TV shows work, in those we are just witnesses of events, we don't have the option to play a part on them and it helps us to cope with the 'wrong' choices made by our favourite characters. But here, playing as a certain character, we have more inputs of what's actually going on than our character, and this can lead to some disappointment when we can't do what "we know" we should do. Obviously being able to have a broader look than our MC can be positive because it helps to create some tension and let creators show some power dynamics that are important to the story, but it can also lead to some negative issues as we're talking now.

I honestly prefer to discover things at the same time as my character, it helps me to be more comfortable with the choices made because I feel I made the one I wanted to make with the info available at that moment, even if it proves to be a wrong one in the end. In AL we had that kind of POV narrative and, in that sense, it worked quite well. There were hints here and there so you can't say DPC was fooling you all the way, but we came to the shocking moment with the same info our MC had, so we could understand and share his shock. That's not gonna happen in BaDIK

absolutely yes.

as long as they are flashbacks, it's not a big deal, we can always imagine someone telling MC about it.
but when they are private dialogues they distance us from MC, making it less natural to interact with his behavior

it is clear that we are not MC (NTR !!!!!!!), but we are responsible for him

 

[xsssssssss]

From a purely narrative/stylistic point of view, do you think that being able, as players, to watch some cutscenes our MC don't see is somehow damaging our gaming experience?

....

I honestly prefer to discover things at the same time as my character, it helps me to be more comfortable with the choices made because I feel I made the one I wanted to make with the info available at that moment, even if it proves to be a wrong one in the end. In AL we had that kind of POV narrative and, in that sense, it worked quite well. There were hints here and there so you can't say DPC was fooling you all the way, but we came to the shocking moment with the same info our MC had, so we could understand and share his shock. That's not gonna happen in BaDIK

I prefer the being a dik approach. As long as non POV don’t overwhelm the POV ones I think they are very valuable in fleshing out the story of the world.

 

[Cndyrvr4lf]

From a purely narrative/stylistic point of view, do you think that being able, as players, to watch some cutscenes our MC don't see is somehow damaging our gaming experience?

We're now discussing about Quinn's scheme and it's true that we the players know way more of it than any of our MCs thanks to those cutscenes. While this is how most of films and TV shows work, in those we are just witnesses of events, we don't have the option to play a part on them and it helps us to cope with the 'wrong' choices made by our favourite characters. But here, playing as a certain character, we have more inputs of what's actually going on than our character, and this can lead to some disappointment when we can't do what "we know" we should do. Obviously being able to have a broader look than our MC can be positive because it helps to create some tension and let creators show some power dynamics that are important to the story, but it can also lead to some negative issues as we're talking now.

I honestly prefer to discover things at the same time as my character, it helps me to be more comfortable with the choices made because I feel I made the one I wanted to make with the info available at that moment, even if it proves to be a wrong one in the end. In AL we had that kind of POV narrative and, in that sense, it worked quite well. There were hints here and there so you can't say DPC was fooling you all the way, but we came to the shocking moment with the same info our MC had, so we could understand and share his shock. That's not gonna happen in BaDIK

Yeah I know I lose track of what the player knows vs what the MC knows sometimes.

 

[zoyle]

absolutely yes.

as long as they are flashbacks, it's not a big deal, we can always imagine someone telling MC about it.
but when they are private dialogues they distance us from MC, making it less natural to interact with his behavior

it is clear that we are not MC (NTR !!!!!!!), but we are responsible for him

I understand that wish but equally in this kind of game people usually want to be somewhat in control of the ending and they tend to react really badly to games that make them feel like they were gotcha'd and could not achieve the ending they wanted. If we only knew the things MC knows, had no other information about what was going on, and consequently people were less inclined to warn or protect Maya because Quinn seemed less threatening, you'd end up with a lot of people who wanted to wind up with Maya upset in the end that they had ruined that relationship before they knew what was what. That might be realistic, but it's not a great game experience. Think about how people felt and reacted when they found out they could not have a happy ending for every character they cared about in Acting Lessons (which, I note, is created by the same creator as this game! He's no stranger to serious bad outcomes for characters!)

It reminds me of how in other games and stories you frequently kind of know how things are gonna go. No one's ever written a huge game or a novel series about a hero who fails in the end and the bad guy wins. At worst maybe you lose some companion characters you care about or even the protagonist dies heroically, but you mostly know the good guys are gonna win, and if it's a series you usually know the good guy's gonna survive (Game of Thrones subverted so many expectations exactly because it's so singular in Not Doing This and making people feel insecure about every character's fate, and the main way it's able to do this is by not really having a protagonist).

People want agency and want to craft the story to their liking (and probably their fetish, in an adult game), but they don't want a bad ending, or at least they don't want a bad ending that they can't easily hit the back button a few times or reload a save from 5 minutes ago and make the opposite choice.

Like, one entirely realistic outcome for Being a DIK is that the MC doesn't make his relationship work with any of the girls. That's probably the most likely one! Most college relationships end, badly.

I doubt that's going to be featured as a good ending, though!