VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.11.1] [DrPinkCake]

[Wizard_Shiryuu]

There isn't if you go full DIK or CHICK because in that case there's only 2 Major Choices left before the other side of the scale is completely wiped out.



He didn't just overcorrect, he flat-out retconned it.

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Makes me wonder if we'll ever see this change implemented in ep 4.

I played both, but I don't remember right now. Does the kiss while leaving also happen in the thruple route? Are those screens for the flasback for the rejected route/the thruple route or both?

And people think my theories are crazy.

I mean, they are, but that's another issue .

Jokes aside I did mention that Sage was absent during the free roam and the only place we couldn't check were two locked rooms .

I know it won't happen, but there's no ingame reason to rule it out right now (maybe she was hiding from her father in a bathroom, who knows), and when you find her she's comming from the penthouse.

'sheep', obviously.

Anyway... it's not 'a plural of plurals'. A pair (or a group or team or squad or collection, etc) is a singular grouping of multiple objects. The subject (the shoes in this case) is then plural. "Pair" indicates multiple objects (specifically two). You don't say 'a pair of shoe' because there are multiple shoes. If you have multiple such groupings of objects, you would say 'pairs of shoes'.

Again, 'a pair of shoes' or 'a collection of baseball cards' or 'a group of people' or 'a team of athletes'. All correct. 'A pair of shoe' or 'a collection of baseball card' or 'a group of person' or 'a team of athlete' all sound ridiculous and are wrong.

Mathematics is plural, so a shortened version of it should also be plural. I don't know how you are making it that complicated .

 

[felicemastronzo]

you are making very unfriendly speeches for people calling from outside the commonwealth

 

[ChipLecsap]

I think what you've pointed out illustrates why the 'release a game a little bit at a time through Patreon' model just doesn't work with truly branching stories.

Skyrim maybe isn't the best example for my explanation, but let's go with it. With a 'released when it was finished' game like Skyrim, the developers could take the time to put everything in the game and have it all ready for the player when they began playing. No matter what choice you make or path you take in the game, that content is finished and waiting for you.

With a game that's put out in pieces like BaDik (or 99% of other games on this site), the creators are faced with two choices if they want truly diverging paths based on actual choices... either they have absolutely massive updates that take a very long time to release (that get bigger and bigger and bigger as more of that divergent content appears in the game) or they release content patches that do not have content for all choices and paths (thus locking a chunk of players out of that content). Basically, imagine if the Derek-Sage-Bella choices in Chapter 4 were released as separate content updates in that order... if you had chosen Bella, you couldn't play the first two updates and you'd just have to wait while others played the new content. Either way, you end up with a bunch of very, very unhappy Patrons and players.

So, the only real option is, as others have mentioned, the illusion of choice... either by having all roads lead to the same 'big' moments and eventual ending (as BaDIK will almost certainly continue to do), or as was the case with AL, simply swapping which characters appear in the same scene based on which choices were made (meaning the hospital, locked room, and funeral scenes all happened basically the same way but who was with you in those scenes changed).

Again, I don't think this is the fault of DPC (especially since, as others have mentioned, he's just one guy doing all this stuff himself)... it's just the cold facts of the release model of Patreon games.

on the other hand , in the case of BAdik and some other games that use financial support from fans method, you know what you're paying for.

you are not baited with fancy graphic, and lies, that you can only discover after you paid the full price for a game.
but, we do often forget that Badik is a visual novel, it is still give us way more choices, than other similar visual novels, way more actually.
all, in all. while there are stuffs that I may not agree, and these are based on my personal preference, the overall experience is well worth it. and I respect, and accept the creator decisions.
once he finished I planning to buy it, to show support to the developer who in my mind deserve it way more, than greedy EA, and other scam AAA studios.

 

[ename144]

I played both, but I don't remember right now. Does the kiss while leaving also happen in the thruple route? Are those screens for the flasback for the rejected route/the thruple route or both?

Maya and Josy will kiss when they reconcile on all paths, before the decision is made. After that, it depends. When Maya and Josy accept the MC, they kiss him in turn then kiss each other while the three hug. It's only when the MA is rejected (or doesn't try) that we get the infamous scene of them kissing as the MC walks away.

Likewise, the new image Holy Bacchus showed of them sadly watching the MC as he walks away is only shown on the MC friends route. I won't go so far as to say it is definitely a retcon, but it is clearly an effort to change our perception of what they felt about the MC walking away. (Which is good, because the original scene deserved all the flak its taken.)

 

[ChipLecsap]

Maya and Josy will kiss when they reconcile on all paths, before the decision is made. After that, it depends. When Maya and Josy accept the MC, they kiss him in turn then kiss each other while the three hug. It's only when the MA is rejected (or doesn't try) that we get the infamous scene of them kissing as the MC walks away.

Likewise, the new image Holy Bacchus showed of them sadly watching the MC as he walks away is only shown on the MC friends route. I won't go so far as to say it is definitely a retcon, but it is clearly an effort to change our perception of what they felt about the MC walking away. (Which is good, because the original scene deserved all the flak its taken.)

I would not say as a "retcon" at all. Because those images, are form the "Previously on BADIK" Segments. but i'm sure you all know this.

 

[Anthony11553]

Yeah the scene when you get rejected is pretty cringe

 

[Wizard_Shiryuu]

Maya and Josy will kiss when they reconcile on all paths, before the decision is made. After that, it depends. When Maya and Josy accept the MC, they kiss him in turn then kiss each other while the three hug. It's only when the MA is rejected (or doesn't try) that we get the infamous scene of them kissing as the MC walks away.

Likewise, the new image Holy Bacchus showed of them sadly watching the MC as he walks away is only shown on the MC friends route. I won't go so far as to say it is definitely a retcon, but it is clearly an effort to change our perception of what they felt about the MC walking away. (Which is good, because the original scene deserved all the flak its taken.)

The one I mean is when they kiss while the MC is leaving. This screenshot is from the DIK route, does this one happen in both cases? Does the "corrected" version in ep. 4 happen for both routes?

 

[felicemastronzo]

The one I mean is when they kiss while the MC is leaving. This screenshot is from the DIK route, does this one happen in both cases? Does the "corrected" version in ep. 4 happen for both routes?
View attachment 803052

another precaution for NTR-ultra-sensible?
the sense of the scene remains that

 

[ChipLecsap]

Yeah the scene when you get rejected is pretty cringe

Well, they reject you, not each other, so..... Suck for you I guess. . may be DPC assumed rightfully, that in the DIK path peoples will actually not care about them enough, to be bothered by this.
but turned out, that even the Massivest , Massive DIKs are gonna turn in to snowflake if two girls they dont give a shit about, kissing behind their back

 

[Wizard_Shiryuu]

another precaution for NTR-ultra-sensible?
the sense of the scene remains that

I don't know. I find it rude that two people who theoretically like/love you, but decided to reject you are making up in front of you just after dumping you, but not particularly NTR-ish.

 

[Tserriednich'sNen]

Hear hear! This guy gets it, follow his teachings and avoid needless trouble

You go your way, I'll go mine A pair of HOTs grown and flowered await


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[ename144]

I would not say as a "retcon" at all. Because those images, are form the "Previously on BADIK" Segments. but i'm sure you all know this.

No, they are from the scene where the MC follows Josy in Episode 5 (if he is on the friendship path). They are a flashback to the events of Episode 4.

The one I mean is when they kiss while the MC is leaving. This screenshot is from the DIK route, does this one happen in both cases? Does the "corrected" version in ep. 4 happen for both routes?
View attachment 803052

That is the original scene from Episode 4, and it will play any time the MC fails to start the three-way relationship (CHICK or DIK, regardless of why the girls turned him down, or even if he turned them down himself).

This follow-up image in the Episode 5 flashback with Josy will likewise happen anytime the MC was rejected regardless of why that was (assuming he went to see Josy's dad with her, of course). The dialog around it changes very slightly, but the render does not.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Maya and Josy will kiss when they reconcile on all paths, before the decision is made. After that, it depends. When Maya and Josy accept the MC, they kiss him in turn then kiss each other while the three hug. It's only when the MA is rejected (or doesn't try) that we get the infamous scene of them kissing as the MC walks away.

Likewise, the new image Holy Bacchus showed of them sadly watching the MC as he walks away is only shown on the MC friends route. I won't go so far as to say it is definitely a retcon, but it is clearly an effort to change our perception of what they felt about the MC walking away. (Which is good, because the original scene deserved all the flak its taken.)

It honestly feels like a retcon because we all know from the ep 4 rejection that they were sucking face when he left but then in the brief ep 5 "flashback" when he and Josy are talking, they're now not making out behind his back. Like, why do that when we know that's not what happened? It's an inconsistency likely intended to placate those that were pissed off by that kiss (which was just about everyone), but without actually changing what happened in ep 4, it still doesn't make it any better.

The one I mean is when they kiss while the MC is leaving. This screenshot is from the DIK route, does this one happen in both cases? Does the "corrected" version in ep. 4 happen for both routes?
View attachment 803052

That happens when the MC is rejected or if he chooses to stay friends. If he goes for "something more" they still kiss, but only after they've each kissed the MC.



The "corrected" version from that brief ep 5 flashback is for the rejected/friends route when the MC talks to Josy. So DPC has tried to a little rewrite of history here, but they should do the same with ep 4 for consistency's sake.

 

[lemonfreak]

I think what you've pointed out illustrates why the 'release a game a little bit at a time through Patreon' model just doesn't work with truly branching stories.

Skyrim maybe isn't the best example for my explanation, but let's go with it. With a 'released when it was finished' game like Skyrim, the developers could take the time to put everything in the game and have it all ready for the player when they began playing. No matter what choice you make or path you take in the game, that content is finished and waiting for you.

With a game that's put out in pieces like BaDik (or 99% of other games on this site), the creators are faced with two choices if they want truly diverging paths based on actual choices... either they have absolutely massive updates that take a very long time to release (that get bigger and bigger and bigger as more of that divergent content appears in the game) or they release content patches that do not have content for all choices and paths (thus locking a chunk of players out of that content). Basically, imagine if the Derek-Sage-Bella choices in Chapter 4 were released as separate content updates in that order... if you had chosen Bella, you couldn't play the first two updates and you'd just have to wait while others played the new content. Either way, you end up with a bunch of very, very unhappy Patrons and players.

So, the only real option is, as others have mentioned, the illusion of choice... either by having all roads lead to the same 'big' moments and eventual ending (as BaDIK will almost certainly continue to do), or as was the case with AL, simply swapping which characters appear in the same scene based on which choices were made (meaning the hospital, locked room, and funeral scenes all happened basically the same way but who was with you in those scenes changed).

Again, I don't think this is the fault of DPC (especially since, as others have mentioned, he's just one guy doing all this stuff himself)... it's just the cold facts of the release model of Patreon games.

It's my own fault for not being clearer, I should have explained that my invocation of Skyrim was strictly limited to the blank slate MC and that no further implications should be inferred (should've learned for the whole Cercei thing I did a while back )

I personally have a problem with the whole illusion of choice thing because that seems to imply that, if the MC doesn't have a huge amount of control over events, they're essentially on rails. I disagree with this as I believe that controlling the MC's perception (and by extention, the perception of NPCs) is equally valid in most cases and, in the case of a visual novel, superior.

It honestly feels like a retcon because we all know from the ep 4 rejection that they were sucking face when he left but then in the brief ep 5 "flashback" when he and Josy are talking, they're now not making out behind his back. Like, why do that when we know that's not what happened? It's an inconsistency likely intended to placate those that were pissed off by that kiss (which was just about everyone), but without actually changing what happened in ep 4, it still doesn't make it any better.

Due to my well established laziness I'm not going to go back and confirm the context of those images but it seems entirely reasonable that, in the first case, we, the players were seeing what actually happened whereas, in the second case, we were seeing what the MC knew to have happened which, since his back was turned, is less than we knew.

I eagerly await the screenshots that show I'm wrong

 

[Warped77]

are making up in front of you.

Well, technically, it's behind you...

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Surely if iot was to placate or retcon as such...he'd just replace the render with the flashback renders. Would take him literally like 15 seconds.

Yeah, he should and he should also patch the Steam version with it too. The fact that they did that does make it feel like they heard all the complaints and showed a different version of that event so as to not show that controversial moment again. Unless this was right before the kiss, but that doesn't seem to work either because the distance the MC is from them in the ep 5 render is the same as in the ep 4 render, so it certainly has the feel of a retcon.

 

[ename144]

It honestly feels like a retcon because we all know from the ep 4 rejection that they were sucking face when he left but then in the brief ep 5 "flashback" when he and Josy are talking, they're now not making out behind his back. Like, why do that when we know that's not what happened? It's an inconsistency likely intended to placate those that were pissed off by that kiss (which was just about everyone), but without actually changing what happened in ep 4, it still doesn't make it any better.

I'm not disagreeing it changes the context of the original scene. I'm just saying it's possible DPC always intended to make it seem like the three had moved on in that moment only to later reveal that there were still a lot of lingering feelings. It's the sort of thing I could see him doing intentionally, even if I don't think it's likely in this case.

Either way, it's clear he decided to emphasize the change in Episode 5. That implies that either the change is indeed a retcon, or that the original scene was being widely misinterpreted and the future revelations needed to happen ASAP.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Due to my well established laziness I'm not going to go back and confirm the context of those images but it seems entirely reasonable that, in the first case, we, the players were seeing what actually happened whereas, in the second case, we were seeing what the MC knew to have happened which, since his back was turned, is less than we knew.

I eagerly await the screenshots that show I'm wrong

So you're saying that we saw in ep 4 was what he thought was happening behind him? That's even worse because it would means he thinks very little of them if he assumed they'd just start making out after they dumped him or he dumped them.

 

[ChipLecsap]

No, they are from the scene where the MC follows Josy in Episode 5 (if he is on the friendship path). They are a flashback to the events of Episode 4.

Oh, I didn't know that. Okay

 

[lemonfreak]

So you're saying that we saw in ep 4 was what he thought was happening behind him? That's even worse because it would means he thinks very little of them if he assumed they'd just start making out after they dumped him or he dumped them.

That's exactly the opposite of what I said

That's the point. We are largely on rails..not a lot you can do about that.

Again, depends on you're defining on rails. Those of us who've used scrappy's mod (which I only use of second playthroughs for the record) know that there are times in which the MC's Affinity/Status affect the interactions with the LIs, meaning that on a Chick playthrough an answer might be neutral whereas, on a Dik playthrough the exact same answer would result in RP-1