VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.11.1] [DrPinkCake]

[felicemastronzo]

I'm sorry , MY english reached its limit. I' have to admit, I lost the track, I don't know what the Fuck you talking about. .
You say MC going talk to Maya and Josy, at the end of ep 6 is forced event, but him going to talk to Caty because he doing it for Diks. , and then spending the night there is not forced event, because its part of the storyline.
I really don't understand where you wanna go with this. its my lack of intelligence probably. but the Whole Hot's scavenger hunt was as much of part of the storyline as much of the Hell week. MC goes and check on Maya has as much of sense as him goind to go to talk to Caty, regardless if you swyp her up or not.
MY point is, you can't call one forced, while the other not forced. lets say its the linear storyline events.
But, I lost the track, sorry , I'm out of this conversation . You right I'm probably wrong , I move on.

But some players who have largely avoided both might not have wanted to spend the night with Bella and Jill, so is this not also a forced element? Just because the MC went there of his own volition doesn't mean it's any less forced than going to see M&J after Josy called him, especially if you weren't able to stay with Bella in Ep 4. By the logic of this anti-M&J brigade, the MC should have been able to decide if he went to Bella's or not since the problem they seem to have is that they don't have total control over what the MC does.

they are two completely different episodes.

MC willingly goes to talk to Cathe to defend Rusty, and he does so for the sake of the DIKs and therefore his own.
Bella and Jill do Mc a favor by letting him talk to Cathe, and then another favor by hosting him. in the affair MC is indebted to Jill and Bella. then if there is a relationship between them there will be some developments the next day, but it remains a favor that the two LIs do to MC.

in the other case, MC is called to console / help Maya who discovers that she cannot have the free tuition, here the problem is exclusively Maya's, even the scavenger hunt is part of the Maya storyline, MC is only marginally involved. here it is Maya and Josy who are indebted to MC who rushes to their request. but if MC has no relationship and no interest in either of them (and at this point if he confessed so to Derek it is practically official, it is no longer a deduction) the problem involves him marginally (as does Tybalt's blackmail, and Sage's disease) but is obliged to participate in it

 

[DavDR]

I think it's a lot of things. Doc has broken Cathy (currently) in the storyline ("Episode 6: Destroy All Redheads").

First of all, Cathy isn't handling the humiliation of the Cluck as well as she'd hoped, as seen by the dramatic change in her disposition toward her class. In this scene, it's pretty clear to me that they are talking about the affair that Jade explained to MC in the lecture hall, and hinted at in Jade's thought-comment during the scene just before Chad came in to face charges of bullying the MC (Jade thought something along the lines of "He'll side with Cathy but not his wife...bastard"). From a storytelling perspective there would be little reason for the character (Jade) to share this thought or the story with the MC unless there was to establish a plotline. Without context it would have been a throwaway line and potential plot hole.

The questions of "would Jade this" and "would Cathy that" aren't really germane since don't know much about them apart from their darker sides.

I believe that given all her depression since the Cluck, it seems likely to me that Cathy has confessed to Jade about the (very likely one-time drunken) affair. Jade's calmness is to be expected because she has long since forgiven "her friend" (which appears to be Cathy of course) shifting all the blame to her husband, and according to Jade to the MC, it happened a long time ago. All of this is building to the closing scene of the Episode

Spoiler

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In this context, the dialogue in the scene is more clear. If the previous unseen pieces of the conversation was Cathy "getting it off her chest" and confessing apparently one-time indiscretion, the rest of the conversation makes perfect sense. There is nothing dramatic enough about Cathy being at Bella's house for it to have anything to do with that. How heart wrenching can it be to tell a friend that two other friends and one of her students tried to console her the other night? Her emotional state at the moment in the scene would be out of context to anything that could have happened in the aforementioned scene unless we just start making up stuff, like Cathy feels guilty because Cathy, Bella, Jill, and the MC are planning a bank robbery (hehe).

We'll see as the story plays out. I believe we'll discover that Cathy had a one-night stand with Jade's husband a LONG time ago that she has kept it buried and unspoken between her and her best friend until now. And in a fit of self-loathing given everything that has happened to her recently including her own personal choices (remember, Cathy is a seriously insecure woman on top of everything), she seems to have finally confessed one of the worst things a friend can do to another: cheated with her best friends husband. Perhaps Jade already knowing since the night it happened (as Jade explained to the MC) will help sooth Cathy's suffering. But probably not given the ending of the Episode. Just one more bullet that DrPinkCake fired into the back of Cathy's redheaded skull.

"I know, and it doesn't matter. None of that matters now. I'm not mad [at] you. I was upset but I'm over it." [she knew since day one and chose to forgive Cathy and blame hubby]
"You hate me. [this is Cathy projecting her feelings about herself. Cathy hates herself right now] You're my best friend."
"And you're mine.

OK this does sound like a probable scenario.

 

[felicemastronzo]

You don't consider bullshit a human response on occasion?

If I was unclear, I put it that bluntly to illustrate it from Josy's POV; the MC is obsessed over minor details that shouldn't matter to him (Josy being in a same-sex relationship), or blaming her for not somehow knowing the MC knew Maya. I definitely get why the MC was feeling so hurt in the moment and I don't hold it against him any more than I do Josy's anger (or Maya hiding her relationship, for that matter). Sorry if it seemed otherwise.

(Well, that assuming the MC slept with both of them, that is. As I said above, if the MC chose to respect Josy's relationship, and didn't make advances on Maya (as she originally asked him not to), then I really do think his histrionics are utterly uncalled for.)

no, but I consider the term "bullshit" much more negative than "perfect human response". it seemed to me an accusation against Mc and a defense for Josy

if they are equally guilty to you, I have misunderstood what you meant. Sorry

 

[ChipLecsap]

they are two completely different episodes.

MC willingly goes to talk to Cathe to defend Rusty, and he does so for the sake of the DIKs and therefore his own.
Bella and Jill do Mc a favor by letting him talk to Cathe, and then another favor by hosting him. in the affair MC is indebted to Jill and Bella. then if there is a relationship between them there will be some developments the next day, but it remains a favor that the two LIs do to MC.

in the other case, MC is called to console / help Maya who discovers that she cannot have the free tuition, here the problem is exclusively Maya's, even the scavenger hunt is part of the Maya storyline, MC is only marginally involved. here it is Maya and Josy who are indebted to MC who rushes to their request. but if MC has no relationship and no interest in either of them (and at this point if he confessed so to Derek it is practically official, it is no longer a deduction) the problem involves him marginally (as does Tybalt's blackmail, and Sage's disease) but is obliged to participate in it

and in both case the player does not have a choice but to participate. it is all comes to the simple fact that "I don't like x, y, so I dont want to be involved, but the game force me in to it". finally we can move on good talk

 

[Deleted member 506935]

If that portrait is Jill's sister then she's not the MC's Mom, she's his Great-Grandmother at least. The period for that clothing and style is about 1860 to 1910.

you are probably right, maybe the portrait is of one of the founders of the Uni.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

they are two completely different episodes.

MC willingly goes to talk to Cathe to defend Rusty, and he does so for the sake of the DIKs and therefore his own.
Bella and Jill do Mc a favor by letting him talk to Cathe, and then another favor by hosting him. in the affair MC is indebted to Jill and Bella. then if there is a relationship between them there will be some developments the next day, but it remains a favor that the two LIs do to MC.

in the other case, MC is called to console / help Maya who discovers that she cannot have the free tuition, here the problem is exclusively Maya's, even the scavenger hunt is part of the Maya storyline, MC is only marginally involved. here it is Maya and Josy who are indebted to MC who rushes to their request. but if MC has no relationship and no interest in either of them (and at this point if he confessed so to Derek it is practically official, it is no longer a deduction) the problem involves him marginally (as does Tybalt's blackmail, and Sage's disease) but is obliged to participate in it

If he stayed with Bella then it makes sense that he would stay there again, but if he stayed with Sage or Derek either by choice or because he was locked out of staying at Bella's then why stay there now? Isn't that a forced element for those not interested in Bella or Jill? Couldn't there have been a choice to avoid that and go back to Sage or Derek, or maybe even go to M&J if you're in the relationship with them?

This is my point, that whether he does something willingly or because he gets roped in to it by another character, it's still something that is forced upon the player whether the player is interested in whatever character is involved or not because it's part of the main story. So those folks whining about not being able to avoid M&J might as well do so about everything in this game because you have to accept that there are certain things you simply cannot avoid and get away from.

 

[felicemastronzo]

and in both case the player does not have a choice but to participate. it is all comes to the simple fact that "I don't like x, y, so I dont want to be involved, but the game force me in to it". finally we can move on good talk

but why would Mc (and the player) not want to defend Rusty? when he goes to Bella to talk to Cathe he does it for his own benefit, should he give up because he doesn't like Jill?

it would be like complaining that MC has to study in the library with Maya and Josy.
or why he has to go to class and meet Maya and Josy.

 

[ChipLecsap]

If he stayed with Bella then it makes sense that he would stay there again, but if he stayed with Sage or Derek either by choice or because he was locked out of staying at Bella's then why stay there now? Isn't that a forced element for those not interested in Bella or Jill? Couldn't there have been a choice to avoid that and go back to Sage or Derek, or maybe even go to M&J if you're in the relationship with them?

This is my point, that whether he does something willingly or because he gets roped in to it by another character, it's still something that is forced upon the player whether the player is interested in whatever character is involved or not because it's part of the main story. So those folks whining about not being able to avoid M&J might as well do so about everything in this game because you have to accept that there are certain things you simply cannot avoid and get away from.

I rarely agree with you , but EXACTLY. this whole conversation doesn't have a standing. it's just bitching for the sake of bitching nothing more. Not to mention, HE actually not "drop everything to rush to Maya and Josy".
MC either finished the Bar scene, because of the Jill photo, and he is on his way home, or He is already Fucked 2 striper , and he is on way home.
or he is sitting home, I don't know what happens if you not go to the bar. but it is not more force than anything else in the game, this is simply just couple of people don't like them, so they don't even wanna see them in the game.

 

[Dashxp4k]

you can end relationships or never started due to less RP or affinity to LIs for example

"I'm to good for you route."

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DIK affiny route.

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Jill and Bella route.

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No Interest in Jill route.

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Jill route.

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"I'm to good for you route."

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No interest in Jill route.

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[Holy Bacchus]

but why would Mc (and the player) not want to defend Rusty? when he goes to Bella to talk to Cathe he does it for his own benefit, should he give up because he doesn't like Jill?

it would be like complaining that MC has to study in the library with Maya and Josy.
or why he has to go to class and meet Maya and Josy.

Maybe some players wouldn't, maybe some players think they've done enough to help and would just like to see how it plays out from here, or maybe some players don't want to stay at Bella's and do yoga with her and Jill and make pancakes just like there are some people who don't want to chat with Maya and Josy in class or study with them in the library. Do you see what we're getting at?

These people complaining about not being able to avoid M&J are only saying it because they don't like them, pure and simple, all the while not realising that there are forced moments with all LIs and that some people might not be interested in those but these people don't whine about it as much as the M&J haters.

 

[Pendrell]

Ya, for me she's definitely moving up the ladder. A lot of parody with the MC and Vinny, too - I get the feeling Vinny was likely Quinn's ex and there seems to be some foreshadowing that he'll play an antagonistic role moving forward.

Suspect there is definitely some more backstory between Quinn and Vinny to be revealed. There's clearly some kind of drug connection, but I agree it's possible they were also involved in some way. When MC takes Quinn back to his room, there is the beat where Quinn observes that he "got Vinny's old room", which was suggestive of something, I thought.

 

[DavDR]

With respect, I think you're reading things into her words and actions that are not there. Josy didn't drop the MC until AFTER he stormed out on her.

Josy asked the MC to meet her in the bathroom, and the MC immediately implied she lied to him about her "boyfriend." In response, she said she wanted to explain when she got here and that it shouldn't make any difference if her SO was a boy or a girl. It's only when the MC insists she should have told him all the specific details (including some rather private ones) that she snaps at him. And even after that exchange, her ultimate response is still "What are we going to do...?" [Emphasis mine.]

Clearly she still saw the MC as more than a crutch to be discarded at that point. In comparison, Josy is fairly testy with Maya until they laugh over the diarrhea shit joke, and she still hasn't gotten close enough to tell her about the MC by the time of the library scene. Also, Josy is still trying to patch things up with the MC after that. Whatever Josy said in anger, she clearly cared about him to some extent.

As doing everything she could to encourage the MC's advances, I again disagree. At best, Josy took half the chances. It was Josy called an end to the first date, and she repeatedly poured cold water on things by bringing up her relationship or her own feelings of guilt. On those occasions, it was the MC who did everything he could to encourage her: begging her to stay on the line, letting him see her over the weekend, or saying she must be unhappy in her relationship while on the couch.

I'm certainly not exonerating Josy, but unlike felicemastronzo, I do see the blame split rather equally here. To me, it seems like both Josy and MC liked each other enough that they did things in the heat of the moment that they later felt guilty about. When the whole situation exploded, they both trouble processing that and occasionally took it out on each other.

That's more or less what the game will eventually explain, and IMHO it fits well. YMMV of course, but I don't think there's any evidence to support an interpretation that Josy was deliberately using the MC.

I couldn't disagree more. Josy's using the MC's emotions so she won't be alone.

The whole thing should have ended when the MC said, this is farewell. Why didn't it end there? Because Josy begged (while literally clinging to him) the guy that she knew had a crush on her, to just say Goodbye, not farewell.

Think about the MC's reflections as he lays in bed that night. He's confused. He has feelings for this girl that she has actively encouraged, touching him, hugging him, if you look at the scene in the beginning again it's clearly Josy who's sending signals that she wants to date him.

At the college it's Josy who calls the MC not the other way around. Why is she bothering him? If she has decided to leave, why bother this guy who already tried to walk away from this situation? The answer is, that she's not leaving. She just uses the threat of running away to say 'look at me' 'notice me' 'chase after me, I'm running away'. Again, the night of the date. The MC has listened to her problems. He is about to say goodnight and leave when she invites him into her bed.

Every time the MC tries to get away from her she plays on his feelings to get him to stay. To give her attention. To make her feel wanted. She eventually even offers him her body to get him to stay.

 

[ChipLecsap]

but why would Mc (and the player) not want to defend Rusty? when he goes to Bella to talk to Cathe he does it for his own benefit, should he give up because he doesn't like Jill?

I don't know?, you tell ME. Why there are peoples who don't like certain things?. What if I'm like Derek, like I don't want get involved, I rather go home and Fuck Josy , or goes to Sage. No, MC stand up, and does something because of the sake of the story, the same way , He goes to talk to "them" Because of the sake of the story. it's the linear storytelling, because it is a novel. You can't just pick one aspect, like this, and then goes on and on about justifying why one is acceptable, and the other one is not.
The same way you say, why would MC not want to help Rusty, the same apply to the Maya scene, because regardless of the deepness of the relationship which is up to you, HE develop a friendship with her, Why would He not goes to talk to them if they ask for him?! oh right because some players not liking them so it's forced.
this is a never ending circle as I see.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

I couldn't disagree more. Josy's using the MC's emotions so she won't be alone.

The whole thing should have ended when the MC said, this is farewell. Why didn't it end there? Because Josy begged (while literally clinging to him) the guy that she knew had a crush on her, to just say Goodbye, not farewell.

Think about the MC's reflections as he lays in bed that night. He's confused. He has feelings for this girl that she has actively encouraged, touching him, hugging him, if you look at the scene in the beginning again it's clearly Josy who's sending signals that she wants to date him.

At the college it's Josy who calls the MC not the other way around. Why is she bothering him? If she has decided to leave, why bother this guy who already tried to walk away from this situation? The answer is, that she's not leaving. She just uses the threat of running away to say 'look at me' 'notice me' 'chase after me, I'm running away'. Again, the night of the date. The MC has listened to her problems. He is about to say goodnight and leave when she invites him into her bed.

Every time the MC tries to get away from her she plays on his feelings to get him to stay. To give her attention. To make her feel wanted. She eventually even offers him her body to get him to stay.

You've basically just described a woman's behaviour and the effect they have on men, so what is the problem here?

 

[felicemastronzo]

If he stayed with Bella then it makes sense that he would stay there again, but if he stayed with Sage or Derek either by choice or because he was locked out of staying at Bella's then why stay there now? Isn't that a forced element for those not interested in Bella or Jill? Couldn't there have been a choice to avoid that and go back to Sage or Derek, or maybe even go to M&J if you're in the relationship with them?

This is my point, that whether he does something willingly or because he gets roped in to it by another character, it's still something that is forced upon the player whether the player is interested in whatever character is involved or not because it's part of the main story. So those folks whining about not being able to avoid M&J might as well do so about everything in this game because you have to accept that there are certain things you simply cannot avoid and get away from.

he is at Bella's, it's late and he's sleeping there
he went to Bella for his own problem, Bella then hosts him for a kindness that she gives to a "friend"

certainly there could have been this choice, like a thousand others, but it doesn't seem comparable to me

it is not a matter of choice, everyone might want to choose anything, you are comparing a situation in which MC finds himself for his own interest, which however does not entail any problems for him, to one in which he is forcibly involved out of friendship and which will have to face problems not his own.

 

[DavDR]

You somehow, Missing the whole Quinn's restaurant, Free tuition plot storyline. Regardless of your involvement with Maya, that is a storyline She is connected to it, so She calling MC after She finally find out its a lie, is a main storyline element, dont you think?
Yeah we could slice this down too, Why MC actually never tell Her what he knows. But it is what it is. But it was about time to have a conclusion to that storyline. I wonder where her journey lead from this

More dependency, lies, and manipulation?

 

[ChipLecsap]

he is at Bella's, it's late and he's sleeping there
he went to Bella for his own problem, Bella then hosts him for a kindness that she gives to a "friend"

certainly there could have been this choice, like a thousand others, but it doesn't seem comparable to me

it is not a matter of choice, everyone might want to choose anything, you are comparing a situation in which MC finds himself for his own interest, which however does not entail any problems for him, to one in which he is forcibly involved out of friendship and which will have to face problems not his own.

took me a while to figure out, but at this point I think you simply just Trolling, good Trolling I must say

 

[felicemastronzo]

I don't know?, you tell ME. Why there are peoples who don't like certain things?. What if I'm like Derek, like I don't want get involved, I rather go home and Fuck Josy , or goes to Sage. No, MC stand up, and does something because of the sake of the story, the same way , He goes to talk to "them" Because of the sake of the story. it's the linear storytelling, because it is a novel. You can't just pick one aspect, like this, and then goes on and on about justifying why one is acceptable, and the other one is not.
The same way you say, why would MC not want to help Rusty, the same apply to the Maya scene, because regardless of the deepness of the relationship which is up to you, HE develop a friendship with her, Why would He not goes to talk to them if they ask for him?! oh right because some players not liking them so it's forced.
this is a never ending circle as I see.

because by helping Rusty he is helping the DIKs and therefore himself, if Cathe severely punished the DIKs this would also harm MC

helping Maya, he will only help Maya (and Josy)

what I, you and any other player would like to do doesn't matter

you are making an absurd comparison to prove that Maya has the same weight and "bulk" in the history of other LI.

the ending of the first chapter is the grinding with Maya: inevitable
the ending of the third episode is the escape from Maya and Josy: inevitable
the final of the fourth chapter is the sentence of Maya and Josy on MC: inevitable
the end of the sixth chapter is Maya who explains how student debts work in BADIKland: inevitable

but the problem is clearly making pancakes with Bella, really a stretch

took me a while to figure out, but at this point I think you simply just Trolling, good Trolling I must say

no, I'm not doing this

 

[DavDR]

You've basically just described a woman's behaviour and the effect they have on men, so what is the problem here?

No, I'm describing a lying and manipulative woman.

 

[MoarDakka123]

Whoa, what's this about taking Quinn back to your room? I don't recall ever seeing that.