VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.11.1] [DrPinkCake]

[Laport Deminis]

I don't think this is the place for serious discussions....

but just to answer: I don't think it is, but for me it's right, it's not a porn game that has to change people's conscience.

Maya's father is such a stereotype that anyone would hate him, he doesn't bring any reflection, and Maya is so passive in her struggle that it doesn't lead to any self-affirmation

Maya in the story is not a lesbian, she is a girl who likes Josy, in the same way she doesn't like men but maybe she likes MC. there is no general principle.

it's a story where gays hide, always and from everyone, while non-gays make constant "homophobic" jokes or allusions to bromance (Dawe and BigA)

the fact that there are gay characters doesn't make it progressive in my opinion.

Why not? We have serious arguments here all the time.
Of course is a porn game, not a political manifiesto, but that doesnt mean it doesnt have a political inclination. You considered a conservative story, that is a political inclination. Of course is not going to change anyones mind,but if you missred the political inclination you are going to loose track of whats going on. We have an arguemnt on this forum about Maya's dad where a lot of people seriously defended him. We had more than one argument about Maya's issues where a lot of people question her for many things, including her issues with her dad. That was my point.

And stereotypes are used to make a statement, that's how it works, from cartoons to books, to movies. Also victims are by definition a passive agent in narrative fiction. To call Maya passive is questionable, but the fundamental thing is that being a victim means that at some degree you are being passive.

No, it's not that there are gay people, is that the main conflict goes around homosexual vs homophobic. I am not saying that this is an antiracist story couse Jacob is black, couse that is not a political statement and this story is not. Is the main conflict who defines a story and the main conflict is sexual discrimination, both characters have really obvious traits who defines them and the main protagonist has taken one clear side.

"it's a story where gays hide, always and from everyone, while non-gays make constant "homophobic"" And the way that issue is presented is how you know what kind of narrative is predominant in a story. Any doubts we could have about that were finish after ep 7 ending.

 

[The Pink Royce]

Who cares about this loving, caring crap.We're here to fap not to feel, we only need one trait bro, those damn glorious tits
View attachment 1232536

I was gonna say she's the prettiest i mean

Wow, you've done it! You have found an actual positive trait for Maya.

but then i remembered thats not a personality trait .

[...]

I remember when I finished playing this game, and came here with my thoughts and was greeted with dalli saying the wildest shit in the world. I was distraught (I believe it was the Tommy and Quinn raped Maya theory). But now it's funny to me.
[...]

yea it was other way around Maya raped Quinn and Tommy
(what ? i took some vitamins from Dali)

Maybe you were not present on the first part of this argument, 4 or 5 months ago. It wasn't a joke back then. I asume it wasn't a joke right now.
But thnks for the love. A little too gay for me.

You gonna use this picture you gonna get attention ... just saying

Don't worry bruv, it ain't gay if you #nohomo afterward.

does it still count if i print it on a t-shirt ?

 

[Laport Deminis]

You gonna use this picture you gonna get attention ... just saying

Oh, actually, i love gay atenttion, they have no chance at all, but... where are you going to find females willing to treat you as a piece of sweet ass?
I am not that handsome so i have to settled with gays.

 

[felicemastronzo]

Why not? We have serious arguments here all the time.
Of course is a porn game, not a political manifiesto, but that doesnt mean it doesnt have a political inclination. You considered a conservative story, that is a political inclination. Of course is not going to change anyones mind,but if you missred the political inclination you are going to loose track of whats going on. We have an arguemnt on this forum about Maya's dad where a lot of people seriously defended him. We had more than one argument about Maya's issues where a lot of people question her for many things, including her issues with her dad. That was my point.

And stereotypes are used to make a statement, that's how it works, from cartoons to books, to movies. Also victims are by definition a passive agent in narrative fiction. To call Maya passive is questionable, but the fundamental thing is that being a victim means that at some degree you are being passive.

No, it's not that there are gay people, is that the main conflict goes around homosexual vs homophobic. I am not saying that this is an antiracist story couse Jacob is black, couse that is not a political statement and this story is not. Is the main conflict who defines a story and the main conflict is sexual discrimination, both characters have really obvious traits who defines them and the main protagonist has taken one clear side.

"it's a story where gays hide, always and from everyone, while non-gays make constant "homophobic"" And the way that issue is presented is how you know what kind of narrative is predominant in a story. Any doubts we could have about that were finish after ep 7 ending.

because I think they will cancel it by tomorrow...

caricatures, stereotypes are used in propaganda, advertisements and comedies (such as BADIK)
no father can identify himself in Maya's father (and if in theory he could do it, he wouldn't do it anyway, being crazy) so from this story he doesn't take anything from it

and similarly, what message should a gay get from Maya and Chad's behaviour? To hide, which is what a moderate homophobe would advise him to do (don't ask, don't tell).

I don't think that whoever defended Maya's father did it seriously, and I don't think that making Maya the symbol of homosexual emancipation will defend her from criticism.

about Maya's passivity I pass. I have spoken about it too many times already, asking for help and waiting for help does not fit in my concept of proactivity
Chad at least stands up to Sage, he does the bare minimum.

Do you really think that Maya's father vs Maya is the main story? It is as much as Tybalt, Lana, Lynette and Bella's husband.
It's the drama that serves to give depth to the characters. it has only this function

 

[DavDR]

I was gonna say she's the prettiest i mean



but then i remembered thats not a personality trait .



yea it was other way around Maya raped Quinn and Tommy
(what ? i took some vitamins from Dali)



You gonna use this picture you gonna get attention ... just saying



does it still count if i print it on a t-shirt ?

Well let's be generous, given the subject. I admit it's a stretch, but at least we can say something positive.

 

[JETracktor]

the way i see sexuality is like affinity bar in game you can be on ether extreeme streight /gay
View attachment 1232647
or you can be in the middle (like Josy) , Maya thinks shes on extreme but she probobly between it and the middle .
maybe a little closer to the extreme (just like Chad who is "trying" to be streight )

its a big bar and 95% of population are on just one extreme .

Then again i could be completly wrong .
there is no bar and god makes us all straight we just like to sin .

Spoiler

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There is no such thing (or should I say "It's very rare") like extreme straight /gay.
Good old Kinsey proved it long ago.

You must be registered to see the links

 

[Laport Deminis]

because I think they will cancel it by tomorrow...

caricatures, stereotypes are used in propaganda, advertisements and comedies (such as BADIK)
no father can identify himself in Maya's father (and if in theory he could do it, he wouldn't do it anyway, being crazy) so from this story he doesn't take anything from it

and similarly, what message should a gay get from Maya and Chad's behaviour? To hide, which is what a moderate homophobe would advise him to do (don't ask, don't tell).

I don't think that whoever defended Maya's father did it seriously, and I don't think that making Maya the symbol of homosexual emancipation will defend her from criticism.

about Maya's passivity I pass. I have spoken about it too many times already, asking for help and waiting for help does not fit in my concept of proactivity
Chad at least stands up to Sage, he does the bare minimum.

As long as we are polite is fine. That's the good thing of arguig with you felice.
Man, i know they were serious couse i was in that argument and they explicitly say they were serious and they actually believe it. They also used the same sentences that you used as a joke, thats why i reacted in the first place.

Ok. so let's sayd that Maya is the most passive victim who ever lived. It doesn't change any fundamental thing. Couse that's how power works. You hate your boss, but you need your work, so you accept watever shit he throws at you. You hate your local bully but you learn to avoid confrontation couse, what re you going to win? To being hit.
For right wing narrative passivness is lack of character, for left wing narrative pasivness is lack of power. Both have some point in general, but for some issues in some places one of themhas more reason than the other.
What Chad and Maya do? To lie, couse that's what you do when you can't be honest without facing repercussions. You can say: "But that's not the world in wich we live, people now can be openly gay". And yes it will be true in some places, in others it will not. But it doesnt matter couse that is not the LGBT narrative, the LGBT narrative is that they are actually being discriminate and the conservative narrative is that they are not. So if in one story you see people who cannot get out of the closet couse they face serious repercussions, true or not, that's exactly LGBT narrative.
So what's the messege that a gay should get? None, because the messege is not for them. They are not the problem, the problem is the people who actually discriminate them and the mesegge is simple: Dont.

 

[The Pink Royce]

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There is no such thing (or should I say "It's very rare") like extreme straight /gay.
Good old Kinsey proved it long ago.

You must be registered to see the links

its interesting and i should probobly read it but i... ummm .
( i have to help my landlady for better RP)

you sure this wasnt done on monkeys cause they are 95% bisexual ?
ether way i know im not on ether extreme so i wouldnt know from personal experince

my affnity bar exemple was just aid for visual . seems old Kinsey used something similar .

also where people see them self on that bar is ultimately up to them .

 

[LoDoN-]

does it still count if i print it on a t-shirt ?

Only while you are wearing it.

 

[The Pink Royce]

Only while you are wearing it.

i dunno sex in t-shirt maybe little to sweaty . but then i get #nohomo pass ... hmm tuff choice
could be usful in bars though .

edit : im not considering , is just an observation #nohomo , phew that was close

 

[felicemastronzo]

As long as we are polite is fine. That's the good thing of arguig with you felice.
Man, i know they were serious couse i was in that argument and they explicitly say they were serious and they actually believe it. They also used the same sentences that you used as a joke, thats why i reacted in the first place.

Ok. so let's sayd that Maya is the most passive victim who ever lived. It doesn't change any fundamental thing. Couse that's how power works. You hate your boss, but you need your work, so you accept watever shit he throws at you. You hate your local bully but you learn to avoid confrontation couse, what re you going to win? To being hit.
For right wing narrative passivness is lack of character, for left wing narrative pasivness is lack of power. Both have some point in general, but for some issues in some places one of themhas more reason than the other.
What Chad and Maya do? To lie, couse that's what you do when you can't be honest without facing repercussions. You can say: "But that's not the world in wich we live, people now can be openly gay". And yes it will be true in some places, in others it will not. But it doesnt matter couse that is not the LGBT narrative, the LGBT narrative is that they are actually being discriminate and the conservative narrative is that they are not. So if in one story you see people who cannot get out of the closet couse they face serious repercussions, true or not, that's exactly LGBT narrative.
So what's the messege that a gay should get? None, because the messege is not for them. They are not the problem, the problem is the people who actually discriminate them and the mesegge is simple: Dont.

they lie knowing they are lying, don't believe every stranger who writes on the internet

So Maya lied? Interesting... first time I've heard that one.

now let's see what Chad will do: if he confronts the problem or simply asks mc to keep his secret (which he has cleverly hidden by making out in the locker room of a gym normally frequented by his enlightened jocks friends).

Maya lacks power towards her father (and this power she gave to her father by continuing to trust him against all evidence), but it is not only from him that she hides, she hides from everybody. and then this lack of power, of character be it what it may, must culminate in a reaction

Maya's reaction is to kick Josy out of her life for the second time. and to give up again, and this is Josy's statement, not mine, then unfortunately Sage intervenes and forces her to be helped again.

you say that this story should push those who follow it to take Maya's side... except that in this it has statistically failed, considering the success the character has had.
but going even beyond this aspect (the players are all retrograde chauvinists except me, you and a couple of people I like), if I decide to defend Maya I don't do it for a sexual issue, that is completely marginal, you do it to defend a girl from an abuse. if the father had acted the same way because he wanted Maya to be a housewife and to have already 4 children, I would have defended her the same way
The social issue doesn't really come in, because it's not in the interest of the story that it comes in.

 

[The Pink Royce]

[...]
Honestly, mother and daughter should just have some good old make-up sex and so we can end all that drama between them
I just realised that my sentence can be very misleading if you don't know the context... Sorry incest fans

you mean landlady and younger roomate right ?

 

[The Pink Royce]

[...]
(which he has cleverly hidden by making out in the locker room of a gym normally frequented by his enlightened jocks friends).

Maya lacks power towards her father (and this power she gave to her father by continuing to trust him against all evidence), but it is not only from him that she hides, she hides from everybody. and then this lack of power, of character be it what it may, must culminate in a reaction

Maya's reaction is to kick Josy out of her life for the second time. and to give up again, and this is Josy's statement, not mine, then unfortunately Sage intervenes and forces her to be helped again.

you say that this story should push those who follow it to take Maya's side... except that in this it has statistically failed, considering the success the character has had.
but going even beyond this aspect (the players are all retrograde chauvinists except me, you and a couple of people I like), if I decide to defend Maya I don't do it for a sexual issue, that is completely marginal, you do it to defend a girl from an abuse. if the father had acted the same way because he wanted Maya to be a housewife and to have already 4 children, I would have defended her the same way
The social issue doesn't really come in, because it's not in the interest of the story that it comes in.

and also she's 18 and been living with her father her whole life ... it kind of has influence
not to mention the toll it takes on her psyche . only escape is Josy who lives far away and her brother
Derek who drinks assvodka for breakfast.

cmon guys cut her some slack . i know she didnt have to crawl out of hell like Rio or Quinn
but its not like she had it easier then avrg person .

 

[felicemastronzo]

and also she's 18 and been living with her father her whole life ... it kind of has influence
not to mention the toll it takes on her psyche . only escape is Josy who lives far away and her brother
Derek who drinks assvodka for breakfast.

cmon guys cut her some slack . i know she didnt have to crawl out of hell like Rio or Quinn
but its not like she had it easier then avrg person .

but I like Maya, but her faults are part of her, it's not that I have to consider her a new Joan of Arc!

Sage is my absolute favourite but I think she is a girl who would drive almost anyone who wanted to be by her side to the psychiatric ward (and not for the 3 out of 5 stars).

 

[The Pink Royce]

but I like Maya, but her faults are part of her, it's not that I have to consider her a new Joan of Arc!

Sage is my absolute favourite but I think she is a girl who would drive almost anyone who wanted to be by her side to the psychiatric ward (and not for the 3 out of 5 stars).

well i think you on to something about Sage , it turned Chad gay

 

[felicemastronzo]

well i think you on to something about Sage , it turned Chad gay

your judgement is homophobic!!!

but you might be right

 

[Laport Deminis]

they lie knowing they are lying, don't believe every stranger who writes on the internet

So Maya lied? Interesting... first time I've heard that one.

now let's see what Chad will do: if he confronts the problem or simply asks mc to keep his secret (which he has cleverly hidden by making out in the locker room of a gym normally frequented by his enlightened jocks friends).

Maya lacks power towards her father (and this power she gave to her father by continuing to trust him against all evidence), but it is not only from him that she hides, she hides from everybody. and then this lack of power, of character be it what it may, must culminate in a reaction

Maya's reaction is to kick Josy out of her life for the second time. and to give up again, and this is Josy's statement, not mine, then unfortunately Sage intervenes and forces her to be helped again.

you say that this story should push those who follow it to take Maya's side... except that in this it has statistically failed, considering the success the character has had.
but going even beyond this aspect (the players are all retrograde chauvinists except me, you and a couple of people I like), if I decide to defend Maya I don't do it for a sexual issue, that is completely marginal, you do it to defend a girl from an abuse. if the father had acted the same way because he wanted Maya to be a housewife and to have already 4 children, I would have defended her the same way
The social issue doesn't really come in, because it's not in the interest of the story that it comes in.

Well dont trust me. I know i am right, i know they were talking serious. You think there are not homophobics? or that they dont masturbate?
And for sure is not the first time that a story with a progressive agenda fails and is face against a huge backlash. We have seen it once and again and again lately. Everyone were happy when DPC was making fun of feminist and gays but once he starts to put gay narrative on the menu suddenly some people start to become angry? What a surprise.
Of all the girls in the story the lesbian feminist is the most hated? What a surprise.
Also is clear that the story has "failed" with Maya. That's evident. She is a porn character, her main goal is todirectly please the player. And yet she is the less like it? Politics felice. We reach a point in wich people is no longer able to enjoy porn if it cames with a very naive political messege.

Of course they lied. A justified lied in the context of the story, that's the point. You will not openly say that you are gay in Arabia Saudita for example. And noone can blame you if you want to keep being alive.
Man we should not being argueing this couse it was explicit on the end of episode 7.

Ok about Chad kissing of the gym, that was stupid. It is a classic stupidity from comedy narrative.
You are exagereting, she didnt kick her out of her live and by that point she didn't had any option. Thats the point, she lacks power. That's the main trait of a victim. She doesnt have options. Well yeah, she could loose her scolarship and see how everyone around her get a degree a while she clean floors for a minimum wage to pay a loan she couldnt even use. Or she could talk with her father and since we know that fanatics are reasonable people he would understand her. Honestely you cant blame her for lying to her father.

I am sorry but i am lost right now. You know that the conflict is that Maya is lesbian?

 

[Hermith]

Well dont trust me. I know i am right, i know they were talking serious. You think there are not homophobics? or that they dont masturbate?
And for sure is not the first time that a story with a progressive agenda fails and is face against a huge backlash. We have seen it once and again and again lately. Everyone were happy when DPC was making fun of feminist and gays but once he starts to put gay narrative on the menu suddenly some people start to become angry? What a surprise.
Of all the girls in the story the lesbian feminist is the most hated? What a surprise.
Also is clear that the story has "failed" with Maya. That's evident. She is a porn character, her main goal is todirectly please the player. And yet she is the less like it? Politics felice. We reach a point in wich people is no longer able to enjoy porn if it cames with a very naive political messege.

Of course they lied. A justified lied in the context of the story, that's the point. You will not openly say that you are gay in Arabia Saudita for example. And noone can blame you if you want to keep being alive.
Man we should not being argueing this couse it was explicit on the end of episode 7.

Ok about Chad kissing of the gym, that was stupid. It is a classic stupidity from comedy narrative.
You are exagereting, she didnt kick her out of her live and by that point she didn't had any option. Thats the point, she lacks power. That's the main trait of a victim. She doesnt have options. Well yeah, she could loose her scolarship and see how everyone around her get a degree a while she clean floors for a minimum wage to pay a loan she couldnt even use. Or she could talk with her father and since we know that fanatics are reasonable people he would understand her. Honestely you cant blame her for lying to her father.

I am sorry but i am lost right now. You know that the conflict is that Maya is lesbian?

I think you take things way too seriously. Gay narrative and people being angry... I guess I missed a lot.

True, the conflict is about Maya's sexuality, but I still think that's stupid. This is a college full of liberal minded people not Saudi Arabia. I mean most of the girls in the story pretty much fuck with anything that moves so I don't really see who would actually judge Maya just for that. It's more like due to her upbringing she is the one making judgements about others calling the hots sluts (well she's not wrong) while still trying to join them and to be honest she is lowkey envious of them as they can be true to themselves.

It's a porn game and as a main LI there is no way she could "stay" lesbian. That's really a no brainer.

 

[The Pink Royce]

Well dont trust me. I know i am right, i know they were talking serious. You think there are not homophobics? or that they dont masturbate?
And for sure is not the first time that a story with a progressive agenda fails and is face against a huge backlash. We have seen it once and again and again lately. Everyone were happy when DPC was making fun of feminist and gays but once he starts to put gay narrative on the menu suddenly some people start to become angry? What a surprise.
Of all the girls in the story the lesbian feminist is the most hated? What a surprise.
Also is clear that the story has "failed" with Maya. That's evident. She is a porn character, her main goal is todirectly please the player. And yet she is the less like it? Politics felice. We reach a point in wich people is no longer able to enjoy porn if it cames with a very naive political messege.

Of course they lied. A justified lied in the context of the story, that's the point. You will not openly say that you are gay in Arabia Saudita for example. And noone can blame you if you want to keep being alive.
Man we should not being argueing this couse it was explicit on the end of episode 7.

Ok about Chad kissing of the gym, that was stupid. It is a classic stupidity from comedy narrative.
You are exagereting, she didnt kick her out of her live and by that point she didn't had any option. Thats the point, she lacks power. That's the main trait of a victim. She doesnt have options. Well yeah, she could loose her scolarship and see how everyone around her get a degree a while she clean floors for a minimum wage to pay a loan she couldnt even use. Or she could talk with her father and since we know that fanatics are reasonable people he would understand her. Honestely you cant blame her for lying to her father.

I am sorry but i am lost right now. You know that the conflict is that Maya is lesbian?

personally i hate Sarah . not only she's not as hot as she think she is she wants me to pay for sex ?
bitch you paying me ! think id have sex with Arieth before i had sex with sarah imo

 

[felicemastronzo]

Well dont trust me. I know i am right, i know they were talking serious. You think there are not homophobics? or that they dont masturbate?
And for sure is not the first time that a story with a progressive agenda fails and is face against a huge backlash. We have seen it once and again and again lately. Everyone were happy when DPC was making fun of feminist and gays but once he starts to put gay narrative on the menu suddenly some people start to become angry? What a surprise.
Of all the girls in the story the lesbian feminist is the most hated? What a surprise.
Also is clear that the story has "failed" with Maya. That's evident. She is a porn character, her main goal is todirectly please the player. And yet she is the less like it? Politics felice. We reach a point in wich people is no longer able to enjoy porn if it cames with a very naive political messege.

Of course they lied. A justified lied in the context of the story, that's the point. You will not openly say that you are gay in Arabia Saudita for example. And noone can blame you if you want to keep being alive.
Man we should not being argueing this couse it was explicit on the end of episode 7.

Ok about Chad kissing of the gym, that was stupid. It is a classic stupidity from comedy narrative.
You are exagereting, she didnt kick her out of her live and by that point she didn't had any option. Thats the point, she lacks power. That's the main trait of a victim. She doesnt have options. Well yeah, she could loose her scolarship and see how everyone around her get a degree a while she clean floors for a minimum wage to pay a loan she couldnt even use. Or she could talk with her father and since we know that fanatics are reasonable people he would understand her. Honestely you cant blame her for lying to her father.

I am sorry but i am lost right now. You know that the conflict is that Maya is lesbian?

I think you are wrong to read everything through the lens of Maya's homosexuality.

Maya is "hated" because she lied to MC even after he came out to her, and they weren't in saudi arabia but in their room. she used him to stay in Quinn's good graces. and in case the player was interested in Josy she became an insurmountable obstacle to having her soon after.

did she have her reasons for behaving this way? yes, but in the same way the rest of the world has reasons not to forgive her, forgiveness is never an obligation.

But these are not things that I say, these are things that Maya says when she asks him to give her another chance after she has wasted all the ones he has already given her, when she says that although he met her in her worst moment, he has remained close to her.

To think that she should be forgiven just because she is a lesbian seems to me as wrong as the opposite.

to say that she hunts Josy is exaggerated? ok, that she pushes her away for the umpteenth time is ok? that she blames her for going to the HOTs digging a ditch between the two?
Josy, who is also a lesbian like Maya, thinks that Maya has given up.

even this story that never has an alternative is not true, Maya runs into dead ends

she trusts her father after he prevented her from seeing her girlfriend and insulted her all her life for who she is. what did he have to do to prove himself untrustworthy? torture kittens in the living room dressed as a Nazi hierarch?

she doesn't like HOTs, she doesn't trust Quinn, but she thinks she's going to get a lot of money for going on a scavenger hunt....

she knows her dad has a key to her apartment and plays it cool for weeks....

just unlucky...