VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.11.1] [DrPinkCake]

[Moni23]

I think this is kind of a short-sighted view, in all honesty. Do we really want all our MCs to be blank slates, amorphous blobs who have never had anything interesting happen to them until the start of the game? I personally don't think so. That would make a lot of the games much more boring. Player characters deserve depth as much as the love interests do.

By and large I agree with you that player agency should be more impactful than forced character backstory, but there will always be limits imposed by what is necessary for the narrative. To give an example, I've seen numerous people talking about this game gripe about how they wish they had an option to not join the DIKs because they were mad about the various hazing measures or thought Tommy was an asshole or whatever. Like, what? Did you not notice the frat's name in the title of the game? Joining is kind of the whole point. At a certain point, you can't satisfy everyone who's gonna play the game by giving them infinite choices to suit how they might want to play; hell, I saw one guy in another thread claim a game would irreparably break his immersion if he saw his character eating foods he didn't like because he would never choose to do that. And yes, that's obviously an extreme example, but I think it illustrates my point well. No matter how many choices you offer, no matter how insane the branching becomes, you can't make everybody happy.

The main problem with Zoey is that she isn't actually a character - she's a plot device. She exists to be a source of relationship drama in the second half of the game; the first half is all about the MC choosing whether or not to be in a relationship, but the second is about loyalty. And it's easy to navigate that, drama-free, if you can just ignore every other girl in the game. So here's one that, even if you have zero intention of dating her, will cause drama just by existing due to past history. Of course, the problem here is that you can choose to not date any of the main girls - but if you do that, where's the drama? So it can't just be a happy reunion that causes current girlfriends to get suspicious, there has to be a whole bunch of mixed feelings so there's drama on the others route as well. This game is a soap opera, it exists to manufacture drama.

A big part of the problem with that, however, is that while Tremolo the character clearly feels lots of complicated feelings for Zoey... we the audience do not. We didn't experience his life. We didn't see the everyday interactions between them. We got glimpses here and there, but the majority of their interactions are in the interlude, which mostly focuses on her being on the other side of the country and which many people just kinda skipped because they were bored. So, yeah, we didn't exactly experience the conflicting feelings our player character did when she finally showed up again. Most people rejected her out of hand, and the people who did want to flirt with her weren't exactly about to do that while already on a dedicated route anyway, since we'd had 8 episodes to get to know the main girls and half of one to get to know Zoey.

I'll compare Zoey's introduction to the beginning of Fallout 4: our protagonist's spouse is murdered in front of them and their son is kidnapped, and now they have to explore the post-apocalyptic wasteland to get him back. That's a compelling narrative in game, but the player doesn't really have time to form an actual attachment to either one before it happens, which means that hey the time you have actual agency you don't really care about following the quest beyond some sense of completion.

I don't know at what stage of development DPC had all the Zoey stuff more or less finalized. I suspect he knew from the beginning he wanted to do the dramatic return of the ex storyline, but I don't remember exactly when the first mention of her was - I think it might've been at dinner with Bella? It's been a while since I played S1 though. But if I were to rewrite this game with all the knowledge we have now I would, among other things, give Zoey more prominence. Bring her up in more conversations, maybe have a couple flashbacks, that sort of thing. It might be awkward to fit in and make her eventual return more predictable, but it would give players more attachment to her as a whole.

I also think that starting the game at her departure, rather than in a random convenience store(DPC's favorite way to open games), would have been a great way to explain several of the weaker plot elements. Tremolo attends B&R not because he has a specific goal or path in mind, but because he feels like it; wouldn't this be better if he was doing it to find a fresh start after his first love moved away? He develops crushes on Josy and Maya regardless of player input - again a plot point to create drama; wouldn't this make more sense if he was just trying to rebound after Zoey left? His experience with Zoey would also explain his sudden need to make a choice at the end of Episode 8, something that a lot of people felt was forced and out of place; if it was triggered by a sudden reminder of how his relationship with Zoey ended before he could express his deeper feelings and a desire to avoid making that mistake again, wouldn't that have felt much more natural?

Obviously I know that's all retroactive, and a lot of media would be better on the second attempt once collective knowledge and opinion has been gained. But I do think that the core problem with Zoey's inclusion doesn't have anything to do with player choices surrounding her. I mean, think about it this way: let's say that when she shows up Tremolo has absolutely no prior attachments to her, meaning your interactions with her are solely down to your choices as the player. Would getting with her feel as meaningful? Or would it be a more shallow choice to pursue a woman you just met because she's attractive? That's a fine and dandy reason at the start of the game, when every girl is in that boat, but halfway through the story? Doesn't work.

Ultimately, we come to the same thing. Players may have their own wishes, but DPC can't satisfy everyone. I never liked the whole San Diego thing. In an ideal world, I would have preferred Zoey to be present in the game from episode 1, as the girl the MC met in college. Or, if DPC was so keen to add a character from the past, she could have been a friend who never had sex with the MC and was forced to leave due to circumstances beyond her control, and now she's returned and feels like the MC is more than a friend to her. But then again, things could have been much worse. Zoey could have been a crazed sexual predator who pounced on the MC, disregarding his relationship. Or she could have been available only as an option for cheating and casual sex without a relationship, which would have been disastrous for me and probably would have made me quit the game. To sum it up, there are things about Zoey's story that I don't like, but overall I'm happy with what I have.

 

[maxthruster]

But then again, things could have been much worse. Zoey could have been a crazed sexual predator who pounced on the MC, disregarding his relationship. Or she could have been available only as an option for cheating and casual sex without a relationship, which would have been disastrous for me and probably would have made me quit the game.

Or she could've been a serial stalker who turns to arson out of insane fixation on the MC- oh, wait, that's been done already.

 

[Hahn1900]

Christmas with Derek
View attachment 5562288 View attachment 5562289

Christmas without Derek
View attachment 5562286

Is it weird to say i prefer the Derek-Christmas? There are enough girls in the game and enough time with them too... but there cant be enough goofy and good moments with Derek. Preferable goofy and fun times... not cutting of limbs times though.

 

[GFLfooget]

Merry Christmas Diks! And Happy New Year's When it Comes
View attachment 5561942 View attachment 5561943 View attachment 5561944 View attachment 5561945 View attachment 5561947

hot, mid, rotten teeth, hideous, mid

 

[Darkwen]

Merry Christmas Diks! And Happy New Year's When it Comes
View attachment 5561942 View attachment 5561943 View attachment 5561944 View attachment 5561945 View attachment 5561947

saved the best for last, Merry Christmas
Alady Merry Josmas

 

[Moni23]

I don't think there will be a separate route with Zoya. Especially after two renders of a pensive Zoya appeared.

I think that if Tremolo is already in a relationship with one of the five girls, the MC will cheat on her with Zoya, but he won't leave his main girlfriend. He'll feel guilty, maybe he'll tell her about the affair, and naive Jill will forgive him. The same goes for Bianca.

What you're talking about goes against the basic principles of building choice-based games. There's no point in having the player press the "return to Zoey" button and then... he don't return to Zoey. And I don't understand why Zoey and the MC of the "other" branch can't have a happy relationship. Yes, they'll have to get used to being a full-fledged couple instead of just friends who sleep together, but the MC faces similar challenges in other routes (such as Sage). In my opinion, the path of returning to Zoe through others looks like one of the easiest and safest in the game right now. There is no problem of balancing a triple relationship, she will not finish college 2 years earlier than the MC as Sage, there is no age difference and the prospect of the ex-husband's return, also Zoey is not involved with drugs and prostitution.

 

[treechild1]

saved the best for last, Merry Christmas
Alady Merry Josmas

Maya Christmas, Alady!

 

[Vill3m]

- Zoya isn't a relationship wrecker! -​

I don't think there will be a separate route with Zoya. Especially after two renders of a pensive Zoya appeared.

I think that if Tremolo is already in a relationship with one of the five girls, the MC will cheat on her with Zoya, but he won't leave his main girlfriend. He'll feel guilty, maybe he'll tell her about the affair, and naive Jill will forgive him. The same goes for Bianca.

If it's the "Others" route: They'll have the same hot, ledw scene, but they'll feel uneasy afterwards. Kind of like Sage after her scene with Camilla. When they thought they were just fucking friends, everything was fine, but they don't know how to play love yet. Ultimately, the "Others" route will remain with the other girls, including Zoya, but perhaps at the end of the game there will be a choice of ending with Zoya.

Let me repeat, I mean there won't be a separate storyline for Zoe. The story with Sage, for example, will continue, even if you chose to kiss Zoe in Season 11. This will only affect the bonus scenes and the game's ending.

Why do I think this? We're currently finishing Act II, called "Smoke and Flame." It's about betrayal and its consequences.

The story is written according to Vogler's algorithm.
Following this algorithm, at the end of Act II, everyone cries, suffers, and feels very bad. And it's understandable why they do this: so that in Act III, triumph will come and everything will be fine.

So, mentally prepare yourself for the fact that relationships with some girls will temporarily end. These are: Lily (fell in love), M+J (J doesn't like M), Isabella (BDSM room and other problems), Jill, Sage (because of Jade), Nicole (son), Nora.
I'm waiting for a message from Quinn with the address of the motel; she has a bed in her room where you can eat broccoli.
View attachment 5562370

Ignoring the coke induced troll post, I wonder if you play the game with some Russian translation that you constantly refer to Zoey as Zoya?

 

[bgnikola991]

hi, i'm stuck on the first free roam in ep 11, it won't let me finish until i solve the puzzle box, but when i click on the puzzle box, an error occurs in the game code. Does anyone know a solution?

 

[Hahn1900]

hi, i'm stuck on the first free roam in ep 11, it won't let me finish until i solve the puzzle box, but when i click on the puzzle box, an error occurs in the game code. Does anyone know a solution?

 

[Josh M Spicer]

I get that mods might make the game easier on a UI level, but you can just use rick's walkthrough (or honestly probably the official one but I prefer rick's) and still play the vanilla game and be fine.

 

[Jukkado]

I think this is kind of a short-sighted view, in all honesty. Do we really want all our MCs to be blank slates, amorphous blobs who have never had anything interesting happen to them until the start of the game? I personally don't think so. That would make a lot of the games much more boring. Player characters deserve depth as much as the love interests do.

By and large I agree with you that player agency should be more impactful than forced character backstory, but there will always be limits imposed by what is necessary for the narrative. To give an example, I've seen numerous people talking about this game gripe about how they wish they had an option to not join the DIKs because they were mad about the various hazing measures or thought Tommy was an asshole or whatever. Like, what? Did you not notice the frat's name in the title of the game? Joining is kind of the whole point. At a certain point, you can't satisfy everyone who's gonna play the game by giving them infinite choices to suit how they might want to play; hell, I saw one guy in another thread claim a game would irreparably break his immersion if he saw his character eating foods he didn't like because he would never choose to do that. And yes, that's obviously an extreme example, but I think it illustrates my point well. No matter how many choices you offer, no matter how insane the branching becomes, you can't make everybody happy.

The main problem with Zoey is that she isn't actually a character - she's a plot device. She exists to be a source of relationship drama in the second half of the game; the first half is all about the MC choosing whether or not to be in a relationship, but the second is about loyalty. And it's easy to navigate that, drama-free, if you can just ignore every other girl in the game. So here's one that, even if you have zero intention of dating her, will cause drama just by existing due to past history. Of course, the problem here is that you can choose to not date any of the main girls - but if you do that, where's the drama? So it can't just be a happy reunion that causes current girlfriends to get suspicious, there has to be a whole bunch of mixed feelings so there's drama on the others route as well. This game is a soap opera, it exists to manufacture drama.

A big part of the problem with that, however, is that while Tremolo the character clearly feels lots of complicated feelings for Zoey... we the audience do not. We didn't experience his life. We didn't see the everyday interactions between them. We got glimpses here and there, but the majority of their interactions are in the interlude, which mostly focuses on her being on the other side of the country and which many people just kinda skipped because they were bored. So, yeah, we didn't exactly experience the conflicting feelings our player character did when she finally showed up again. Most people rejected her out of hand, and the people who did want to flirt with her weren't exactly about to do that while already on a dedicated route anyway, since we'd had 8 episodes to get to know the main girls and half of one to get to know Zoey.

I'll compare Zoey's introduction to the beginning of Fallout 4: our protagonist's spouse is murdered in front of them and their son is kidnapped, and now they have to explore the post-apocalyptic wasteland to get him back. That's a compelling narrative in game, but the player doesn't really have time to form an actual attachment to either one before it happens, which means that hey the time you have actual agency you don't really care about following the quest beyond some sense of completion.

I don't know at what stage of development DPC had all the Zoey stuff more or less finalized. I suspect he knew from the beginning he wanted to do the dramatic return of the ex storyline, but I don't remember exactly when the first mention of her was - I think it might've been at dinner with Bella? It's been a while since I played S1 though. But if I were to rewrite this game with all the knowledge we have now I would, among other things, give Zoey more prominence. Bring her up in more conversations, maybe have a couple flashbacks, that sort of thing. It might be awkward to fit in and make her eventual return more predictable, but it would give players more attachment to her as a whole.

I also think that starting the game at her departure, rather than in a random convenience store(DPC's favorite way to open games), would have been a great way to explain several of the weaker plot elements. Tremolo attends B&R not because he has a specific goal or path in mind, but because he feels like it; wouldn't this be better if he was doing it to find a fresh start after his first love moved away? He develops crushes on Josy and Maya regardless of player input - again a plot point to create drama; wouldn't this make more sense if he was just trying to rebound after Zoey left? His experience with Zoey would also explain his sudden need to make a choice at the end of Episode 8, something that a lot of people felt was forced and out of place; if it was triggered by a sudden reminder of how his relationship with Zoey ended before he could express his deeper feelings and a desire to avoid making that mistake again, wouldn't that have felt much more natural?

Obviously I know that's all retroactive, and a lot of media would be better on the second attempt once collective knowledge and opinion has been gained. But I do think that the core problem with Zoey's inclusion doesn't have anything to do with player choices surrounding her. I mean, think about it this way: let's say that when she shows up Tremolo has absolutely no prior attachments to her, meaning your interactions with her are solely down to your choices as the player. Would getting with her feel as meaningful? Or would it be a more shallow choice to pursue a woman you just met because she's attractive? That's a fine and dandy reason at the start of the game, when every girl is in that boat, but halfway through the story? Doesn't work.

In my playthroughs, I always ended up leaving Zoey behind because she felt like a total intruder. She suddenly bursts into my story with the main girls, expecting an emotional connection that I, as the player, never actually built with her.
Since I didn't experience their past together myself, I felt zero obligation to treat her like a former lover, unless I planned otherwise from the vergy beginning. To me, the Zoey arc feels like a foreign object forced into the narrative, disrupting the relationships I actually spent time developing.

 

[Drevok]

In my playthroughs, I always ended up leaving Zoey behind because she felt like a total intruder. She suddenly bursts into my story with the main girls, expecting an emotional connection that I, as the player, never actually built with her.
Since I didn't experience their past together myself, I felt zero obligation to treat her like a former lover, unless I planned otherwise from the vergy beginning. To me, the Zoey arc feels like a foreign object forced into the narrative, disrupting the relationships I actually spent time developing.

I kinda roleplayed that part. If that happened to me and I were in a relationship and an old flame reappeared in my life, i doubt I'd break up to be with someone who broke up with me without even telling me. Especially in this situation because she just totally ghosted him with no explanation. I doubt I'd want someone that unreliable as a girlfriend. Friends? Yeah, sure, since they've been friends for a long time and because what she did wasn't totally unforgivable, but still reason enough not to break up with someone to be with her.

 

[Hahn1900]

I kinda roleplayed that part. If that happened to me and I were in a relationship and an old flame reappeard in my life, i doubt I'd break up to be with someone who broke up with me without even telling me. Especially in this situation because she just totally ghosted him with no explanation. I doubt I'd want someone that unreliable as a girlfriend. Friends? Yeah, sure, since they've been friends for a long time and because what she did wasn't totally unforgivable, but still reason enough not to break up with someone to be with her.

Yeah i cant like Zoey either... iam with you two on that, the whole thing how she went to San diego and after 8 months (or more) suddenly she wants to push the "restart" button with the MC... yeah... not gonna work like that. The interlude didnt helped to build a connection with Zoey, not one bit... for that DPC should have shown more of the time with the MC, not the time she spent with people who doesnt matter to the game one bit.

On top of that... what bothers me the most about her, yeah her grandma died bla bla bla bla bla... and she wanted to chase HER dream for her bla bla bla bla... guess what? Shge could have done exactly that a few months later and the MC was even ready to go with her after they graduated which was only a few months away... but nooooo "meh meh i cant stay here, there is nothing for me anymore, granny died... meh meh" who wants to be with a girl like that who runs away after life threw her a curveball. She was in love with the MC (though she realised that only later) but holding the ground for a few months more just and than go with the MC together was too much to ask for. Yeah... well... bye bye.

But at least DPC gave us the choices to actually shorten her exchange with the MC to a minimum... after the inital "comeback" talk... you can avoid her a lot, only a view crucial scenes are unavoidable, which is fine because they conclude the storyarch once and for all with her. The MC has to deal with those feelings and had to figure out what he felt to really move on, thats fine by me and works out well in the game.

But start again with her? There is nothing for that. Especially not if you are in a serious relationship with someone already... On the others path it somehow works a little better, and just to see "everything" i will use one of those others playthroughs for her... and i made a Bella cheating playthrough where i purchased Jill and Bella at the same time, broke Jills heart, and will reconnect with Zoey just to see how things will play out... scorched earth playthrough so to speak...

But overall, Zoeys path is one of my least favorites because it just doesnt work... If she would have come back earlier... like in episode 5 or so, that would be a little different already, or if the interlude would have been a total different thing instead of that bullshit San Diego thingy. But like it is now... i dont care for Zoey at all and she is more like an intruder and annoyance.

But to be honest... it was clear from the get go that she will comeback... but after episode 8 and than this shitty interlude was the wrong way DPC went there.

 

[maxthruster]

and i made a Bella cheating playthrough where i purchased Jill and Bella at the same time

Where do you shop and how much did they cost?

 

[HOBGTG]

i made a Bella cheating playthrough where i purchased Jill and Bella at the same time

 

[DIKHammer]

Where do you shop and how much did they cost?

Careful Better Cock Spock is working on increasing his credit limit to afford Bella

 

[Drevok]

Yeah i cant like Zoey either... iam with you two on that, the whole thing how she went to San diego and after 8 months (or more) suddenly she wants to push the "restart" button with the MC... yeah... not gonna work like that. The interlude didnt helped to build a connection with Zoey, not one bit... for that DPC should have shown more of the time with the MC, not the time she spent with people who doesnt matter to the game one bit.

On top of that... what bothers me the most about her, yeah her grandma died bla bla bla bla bla... and she wanted to chase HER dream for her bla bla bla bla... guess what? Shge could have done exactly that a few months later and the MC was even ready to go with her after they graduated which was only a few months away... but nooooo "meh meh i cant stay here, there is nothing for me anymore, granny died... meh meh" who wants to be with a girl like that who runs away after life threw her a curveball. She was in love with the MC (though she realised that only later) but holding the ground for a few months more just and than go with the MC together was too much to ask for. Yeah... well... bye bye.

But at least DPC gave us the choices to actually shorten her exchange with the MC to a minimum... after the inital "comeback" talk... you can avoid her a lot, only a view crucial scenes are unavoidable, which is fine because they conclude the storyarch once and for all with her. The MC has to deal with those feelings and had to figure out what he felt to really move on, thats fine by me and works out well in the game.

But start again with her? There is nothing for that. Especially not if you are in a serious relationship with someone already... On the others path it somehow works a little better, and just to see "everything" i will use one of those others playthroughs for her... and i made a Bella cheating playthrough where i purchased Jill and Bella at the same time, broke Jills heart, and will reconnect with Zoey just to see how things will play out... scorched earth playthrough so to speak...

But overall, Zoeys path is one of my least favorites because it just doesnt work... If she would have come back earlier... like in episode 5 or so, that would be a little different already, or if the interlude would have been a total different thing instead of that bullshit San Diego thingy. But like it is now... i dont care for Zoey at all and she is more like an intruder and annoyance.

But to be honest... it was clear from the get go that she will comeback... but after episode 8 and than this shitty interlude was the wrong way DPC went there.

Well, it's not so much that I don't "like" her but rather that I don't think I could fully trust that she's going to stay consistent about what she wants. I mean, she went from ghosting him and cutting him out of her life to saying that she's been in love with him for years. Talk about inconsistency.

 

[Znar26]

Sage is hot and high performance.

If you don't pick her path, she is going to get some one way or another.

https://f95zone.to/threads/being-a-dik-fan-art.29960/post-18982453

 

[Better Cock Spock]

Is it weird to say i prefer the Derek-Christmas? There are enough girls in the game and enough time with them too... but there cant be enough goofy and good moments with Derek. Preferable goofy and fun times... not cutting of limbs times though.

I'd be perfectly fine with a full Maya Squad Christmas, but goddamn did Derek absolutely ruin this one

hot, mid, rotten teeth, hideous, mid

Well... 1/5 isn't too bad when you got Bella right

Where do you shop and how much did they cost?

He's neighbors with DPC