VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.11.1] [DrPinkCake]

[Rinbael]

I'd say so far Jill is the only LI who doesn't rely on MC for emotional support. If anything thing she's been an anchor of support for him not vice versa. That speaks a lot about how strong she is as a person.

I agree that Jill does seem very strong as a person but I think alot of that is because she doesn't seem to have any kind of drama or baggage compared to the other LIs but I would be surprrised if that doesn't change further into the story.

 

[Ugimonaa]

I agree that Jill does seem very strong as a person but I think alot of that is because she doesn't seem to have any kind of drama or baggage compared to the other LIs but I would be surprrised if that doesn't change further into the story.

Who knows, anything can happen, like Acting Lessons *coff coff*

 

[felicemastronzo]

Going to address these at once, so here goes.

Maya does not seem to come across as envious of Josy. When she sees Josy and her Dad reconcile with each other it wounds Maya because of the strained relationship with her Dad. She has a longing for such a thing with her own Dad as I get the sense that she was probably quite close to him, like he was her rock throughout most of her life but then when he found out about her, that bond was shattered and she yearns to repair it because she probably views those times through rose-tinted glasses and sees them as mostly good. This longing for reconciliation with her Dad would only be envy if she resented Josy for what she has with her Dad, but she doesn't resent Josy as she says that she is happy for her.

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With regards to her being "weak" because she relies on other people, some people are just like that where there is often a person or people in their life they view as being their "rock", the one(s)who keep them grounded, who are there for them in times of need, and who, generally, don't judge them too harshly and support them. To put such trust in another person is a sign of great strength, not weakness, because you're opening yourself up to them and trusting, hoping that they will accept you for you, taking that brave step to face possible rejection by putting yourself out there. People who don't put such trust in others, who try to be this lone wolf that doesn't need anyone, are more often the weak ones because they're scared to let others in and thus keep everybody at arms length which can lead to them being very lonely people.

Maya simply feels like the world is against her which is a sign that she views herself as the problem, as though being who she is is why so many things are, in her words, "unfair". She doesn't seem to have great sense of self-worth which could be another reason why she attaches herself to others as they give her a feeling of being worthy. Now that she's in college she'll hopefully gain more confidence as most people do, but there's nothing that's really wrong with her right now, she just needs to find herself and now she has the chance to do so, away from her controlling parents.



Her Dad issued her an "ultimatum" and is using this to withhold her tuition, and he is the one that was keeping Maya from seeing Josy for some time now. His visit to Maya's dorm was most likely to pressure her to accept this ultimatum and she either refused or didn't give an answer which is what made her more determined to join the HOTs for the "free tuition" so that she wouldn't have to accept or refuse his ultimatum.

So Maya was not the cause of her relationship with Josy breaking down, it was her Dad and he is still an obstacle in their way.

I want to make some premises before continuing the discussion:

1) i don't hate Maya, when I see a weak person (or character...) I hope he finds the courage to raise his head. accroding to me she is not evil, she has not bad intentions, but I consider her severely limited by her weakness. maybe I was wrong to use the term envy, but i don't like her reaction in front of the happiness of her loved one
2) Maya's father is wrong and I hope he finds out in time. someone will have to face him, i hope Maya herself, but more likely MC
3) i believe that it honors the quality of the game all these discussions about the characters and their behaviors

going back to the subject:
I disagree about your reconstruction. Let's admit that the father completely controlled Maya's life while she was under her terroir, i don't think is full credible, but go on

if the problem in Maya-Josy relationship was only Maya's father, she should have called Josy at her first day at BR, to tell her how she was waiting for her. instead she remains hidden, MC is waiting for Josy every time, Maya?


her Dad (who has a wrong position) keep pushing because he didn't give up on his daughter, the opposite would be worse. in the same way Josy didn't give up on their relationship

if you never make a decision, in the end you live the decisions of others

 

[alex13_zen]

Does anyone else dislike sad and emotional scenes before sex scenes? I felt so bad for Maya in ep5 and then bang, let's have sex. Emotional scenes definitely have their place but the timing should be different in relation to sex scenes (not precede them).

 

[Ugimonaa]

Does anyone else dislike sad and emotional scenes before sex scenes? I felt so bad for Maya in ep5 and then bang, let's have sex. Emotional scenes definitely have their place but the timing should be different in relation to sex scenes (not precede them).

I honestly liked that part. You could consider that as "consolation sex".

 

[ename144]

I'd say so far Jill is the only LI who doesn't rely on MC for emotional support. If anything thing she's been an anchor of support for him not vice versa. That speaks a lot about how strong she is as a person.

I agree, but with a caveat. Jill seems to look to Bella for emotional support; Bella's the one she runs to when she's afraid she made the wrong call by reporting Chad, and Bella's the one she talks to about dating the MC.

Combine that with Rinbael's point that Jill hasn't had a lot of drama in her life lately, and I suspect Jill might well wind up turning to the MC for emotional support if a rift develops between her and Bella (perhaps when Bella's backstory comes out). Just how much support she gets might depend on how close the MC is to Jill vs Bella.

 

[AvatarStormBringer]

I honestly liked that part. You could consider that as "consolation sex".

Oh that is true alright, especially when you're drunk.

 

[Rinbael]

I agree, but with a caveat. Jill seems to look to Bella for emotional support; Bella's the one she runs to when she's afraid she made the wrong call by reporting Chad, and Bella's the one she talks to about dating the MC.

Combine that with Rinbael's point that Jill hasn't had a lot of drama in her life lately, and I suspect Jill might well wind up turning to the MC for emotional support if a rift develops between her and Bella (perhaps when Bella's backstory comes out). Just how much support she gets might depend on how close the MC is to Jill vs Bella.

It could also be way worse if the MC is also romancing Bella and Jill at the same time. Especially if she catches the MC and Bella fooling around.

 

[Ugimonaa]

Oh that is true alright, especially when you're drunk.

Exactly

 

[Holy Bacchus]

I want to make some premises before continuing the discussion:

1) i don't hate Maya, when I see a weak person (or character...) I hope he finds the courage to raise his head. accroding to me she is not evil, she has not bad intentions, but I consider her severely limited by her weakness. maybe I was wrong to use the term envy, but i don't like her reaction in front of the happiness of her loved one

Let's imagine a scenario where someone has just recently lost their Dad, and to them their Dad was their rock, someone who they have a lot of fond memories of and who they had a very strong bond with, but now they're gone. This person then sees their best friend, their partner, or someone else close to them enjoying a nice moment with their own Dad. They may feel happy for that person, but then the sadness creeps in and the longing to have that kind of warm, tender moment with their Dad again, but they can't because they're gone.

This is basically what Maya seems to have felt in that moment; sadness at the fact that her relationship with her own Dad will likely not be like this again and the longing for it to be like that again. It's not a selfish emotion, it doesn't mean she doesn't care for Josy in that moment, it just brought up strong emotions in Maya that were painful and she needed a moment alone to deal with them and that's a perfectly normal things for people to do.

2) Maya's father is wrong and I hope he finds out in time. someone will have to face him, i hope Maya herself, but more likely MC

Maya standing to up to her Dad would be such a great moment, especially on the throuple route because if her Dad had a problem with her being with a girl, just wait until he finds out she wants to be a girl and a guy.

3) i believe that it honors the quality of the game all these discussions about the characters and their behaviors

I do too.

going back to the subject:
I disagree about your reconstruction. Let's admit that the father completely controlled Maya's life while she was under her terroir, i don't think is full credible, but go on

if the problem in Maya-Josy relationship was only Maya's father, she should have called Josy at her first day at BR, to tell her how she was waiting for her. instead she remains hidden, MC is waiting for Josy every time, Maya?

her Dad (who has a wrong position) keep pushing because he didn't give up on his daughter, the opposite would be worse. in the same way Josy didn't give up on their relationship

if you never make a decision, in the end you live the decisions of others

I would say that, given Maya's somewhat shy nature and her general reluctance to really be honest with the MC, Maya does show signs that her Dad was very controlling.

In abusive relationships like this, whether it be a domineering parent or a domineering partner, they're essentially conditioned to be more docile, to not stand up for themselves and to do as they're told, as well as to be less expressive of their own thoughts and feelings out of fear of recrimination. Despite this, the person under the thumb of the abuser will often still have an affection for them because the abuser will occasionally show them affection and make them feel like only they can provide this feeling. They damage their self-worth whilst also making themselves out to be the only one who sees them as worthy.

This can be quite common in devoutly religious households where one or both parents will literally put the fear of God into their children and it can be quite mentally scarring as they're taught that certain thoughts, actions, etc, are sinful and immoral. So when you have someone like Maya who find that she likes girls, it makes her feel bad about herself because she's wracked with fear and self-doubt. But Josy then dispells these feelings by not only making her feel good about herself, but by accepting and reciprocating Maya's feelings for her.

As far as their commitment to the relationship in these hard times goes, Maya was holding on much more to it than Josy was, most likely because of the fact that Josy was her first love. Josy, on the other hand, was either about to start her life over in another part of the country or straight-up dump Maya for the MC, so she seemed to have all but given up. We also don't know how much communication there was between them or who mostly inititated it, but we do know that they got into a lot of fights and disagreements so they seem to have still been in contact, and we know that Maya tried to contact Josy several times when her phone was taken away, so in that instance she was the one intitiating contact.

Maya now has the chance to make her own decisions and we're already seeing her do that with regards to joining the HOTs in the belief that she can get tuition and not have to rely on her Dad, and on deciding to keep things casual with the MC and Josy while they figure things, so she's showing signs of change already and hopefully she'll continue to improve.

 

[ename144]

I want to make some premises before continuing the discussion:

1) i don't hate Maya, when I see a weak person (or character...) I hope he finds the courage to raise his head. accroding to me she is not evil, she has not bad intentions, but I consider her severely limited by her weakness. maybe I was wrong to use the term envy, but i don't like her reaction in front of the happiness of her loved one
2) Maya's father is wrong and I hope he finds out in time. someone will have to face him, i hope Maya herself, but more likely MC
3) i believe that it honors the quality of the game all these discussions about the characters and their behaviors

going back to the subject:
I disagree about your reconstruction. Let's admit that the father completely controlled Maya's life while she was under her terroir, i don't think is full credible, but go on

if the problem in Maya-Josy relationship was only Maya's father, she should have called Josy at her first day at BR, to tell her how she was waiting for her. instead she remains hidden, MC is waiting for Josy every time, Maya?


her Dad (who has a wrong position) keep pushing because he didn't give up on his daughter, the opposite would be worse. in the same way Josy didn't give up on their relationship

if you never make a decision, in the end you live the decisions of others

I certainly agree our debates say something positive about the quality of the game.

As far as Maya calling Josy on Day 1 of B&R, it's important to remember that they had been apart all summer. That's supposedly when the problems began, but we know very little about the specifics.

We know Maya's father disapproved of the relationship and tried to break them up. We know from what Josy said that not being able to get together every week was a major problem for them.


To me, it makes a big difference just how hard it was for the two of them to communicate during that time. If Maya's dad went all out and they were forced to use complicated, indirect methods to communicate, I can see how the two would drift apart. Small differences in their viewpoints became magnified by the slow pace of communication and the 'noise' of speaking through intermediaries. By the time Maya was able to communicate with Josy directly again, the damage was done and their conversations had a lot of barbs, as they later mention.

In that case, I'm not sure how much of the blame should be on Maya. If, on the other hand, Maya could have called Josy at any time but chose not to because she wanted to preserve some sort of relationship with her father, that reflects more on Maya. It's obviously a lousy situation to be in, but if she really did love Josy it's not unreasonable to think she should have been willing to at least keep talking to her.

We may someday learn more about just what happened or how Maya's father behaved. Until then we're stuck speculating.

I'm inclined to give Maya the benefit of the doubt in the meantime. She says she is taking student loans, and the evidence seems to be that her family (Derek aside) show little to no affection for her. To me, that suggests Maya is still defying them, at least as much as she can. She may not be doing a great job of that, but I would call her inexperienced rather than merely weak.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

We may someday learn more about just what happened or how Maya's father behaved. Until then we're stuck speculating.

This is something I very much hope for. I'd like to see something akin to the MC's flashback about Zoey, or Bella' OMG flashback, where he's either talking to both of them or Maya specifically about what happened with her Dad and we get to see it in more detail. If it were to be in a similar vain to the Zoey flashback, we could see how Josy and Maya met and became friends, how/when Maya became attracted to her, how their relationship continued after the camping trip, how her Dad found out, and how they ended up arguing so much.

I feel like the MC has to at some point get some more info on this because surely anyone in that situation would be a bit curious about their history, and considering he tried to ask Jill about Bella's husband, I could see him asking Maya more about her Dad and about her and Josy.

 

[xsssssssss]

This is something I very much hope for. I'd like to see something akin to the MC's flashback about Zoey, or Bella' OMG flashback, where he's either talking to both of them or Maya specifically about what happened with her Dad and we get to see it in more detail. If it were to be in a similar vain to the Zoey flashback, we could see how Josy and Maya met and became friends, how/when Maya became attracted to her, how their relationship continued after the camping trip, how her Dad found out, and how they ended up arguing so much.

I feel like the MC has to at some point get some more info on this because surely anyone in that situation would be a bit curious about their history, and considering he tried to ask Jill about Bella's husband, I could see him asking Maya more about her Dad and about her and Josy.

Personally i want less flashbacks.
There's ocassions where it useful but should be used very sparingly, otherwise it'll distract from current time.

 

[felicemastronzo]

Maya now has the chance to make her own decisions and we're already seeing her do that with regards to joining the HOTs in the belief that she can get tuition and not have to rely on her Dad, and on deciding to keep things casual with the MC and Josy while they figure things, so she's showing signs of change already and hopefully she'll continue to improve.

at the moment few signs in this sense

HOT's free tuition would be a mirage, and for a girl with a lot of trouble in managing an uninhibited sexuality, expecially a dick.., it would be a very hard route. she has to cheat like never before it seems to me more a desperate choice than a reasoned decision


I will be standing to applaud his first autonomous decision

 

[felicemastronzo]

Derek and John Boy are twins...

 

[mindern]

I agree that Jill does seem very strong as a person but I think alot of that is because she doesn't seem to have any kind of drama or baggage compared to the other LIs but I would be surprrised if that doesn't change further into the story.

Or she’s the other side of her “baggage”. Her being bullied in the past is a heavily referenced thing. It influences her behaviour with the MC and she stands up for him. “Does what she wished people did for her” when she reports Chad.

Now she’s organising charity stuff and campaigns for anti-bullying initiatives. I doubt she’s entirely “over” being bullied but it’s a nice change of pace that her emotional baggage is something she’s overcome rather than something she’s held back by.

I agree something will come up in the future though. I think she will have an emotional guy punch at some point but as it stands she’s relatively stable at the moment.

 

[Cndyrvr4lf]

Personally i want less flashbacks.
There's ocassions where it useful but should be used very sparingly, otherwise it'll distract from current time.

I don't mind the flashbacks if it actually serves a purpose as far as the story goes. However, a flashback just to enlighten us about a characters past that could be shared just as easily with a conversation? Waste of time and resources, granted it's not my time/resources. However we can't interact with anything/anyone and it doesn't advance the story so it really is just a waste IMO.

 

[lemonfreak]

I agree something will come up in the future though. I think she will have an emotional guy punch at some point but as it stands she’s relatively stable at the moment.

I know that's a typo but if DPC does show some arsehole punching Jill I will type angrilly on the internet

 

[Cndyrvr4lf]

I know that's a typo but if DPC does show some arsehole punching Jill I will type angrilly on the internet

Or earn another DIK Major Choice

 

[Rinbael]

Or she’s the other side of her “baggage”. Her being bullied in the past is a heavily referenced thing. It influences her behaviour with the MC and she stands up for him. “Does what she wished people did for her” when she reports Chad.

Now she’s organising charity stuff and campaigns for anti-bullying initiatives. I doubt she’s entirely “over” being bullied but it’s a nice change of pace that her emotional baggage is something she’s overcome rather than something she’s held back by.

I agree something will come up in the future though. I think she will have an emotional guy punch at some point but as it stands she’s relatively stable at the moment.

True. I forgot about her anti-bullying stuff she's my favorite out of all the main LIs because she seems to be the most normal and drama free out of everyone. She also seems to be DPCs favorite as well so I'm hoping any of the possible drama approaching isn't to bad and doesn't involve something like a house fire.