VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.11.1] [DrPinkCake]

[felicemastronzo]

That's precisely what I was saying would be a mistake.

If the game is going to treat you as having an affair with Sage regardless of whether you have an affair with Sage, what does the "choice" not to start an affair with Sage really mean?

I mean, if we play out your scenario, what are the possible end points?

1. Everyone believes MC/Sage is a thing: This makes those trying to avoid Sage feel railroaded. As I mentioned before, it's Maya/Josy 2: Redhead Boogaloo.
2. No one believes MC/Sage is a thing: The much foreshadowed confrontation with Chad becomes a nothing burger, despite all the blatant actions by MCs on the Sage path.
3. Non-Sage-path MCs easily prove their innocence, Sage-path MC have to deal with a major crisis: This avoids railroading the players, but then again, what was the point of accusing non-Sage-path MCs in the first place? It's also a major branch, making it extremely resource intensive.
4. Both paths face major crisis relating to Chad for other reasons, Sage-path MCs get additional scenes dealing with their affair: This seems like the best case by far, and you'll note that it gets nothing out of having Mel/Sarah lie about the MC and Sage.

Rather than offer a branching path only to force you back onto the rails at the first opportunity, I think it would be better to say the MC is young and horny and thus DOES fool around with all the LIs. Keep the narrative unified until we get to a point in the story where the choices we make can actually be reflected by the game around us.

Or just accept the branch and only have the MC accused of cheating with Sage when he did.

the third point would not be forced.
It is credible that Chad still has some suspicions about MC, regardless of whether it is true or not.

also even if there was nothing between Sage and MC, the fact of having to "prove" it to Chad could reopen their relationship

 

[Holy Bacchus]

You need to confront her and to have previously used Quinn's restaurant. I think accepting Quinn's invitation at the end of episode 3 might also be one of the requirements, but don't quote me on that.

Well, I will quote you on that and say that you don't need the Quinn/Riona threesome. The requirements are as chronomate has detailed.

DPC has the power to make more or less anything happen, but that does not mean he can make it happen well.

The problem is that Sage and the MC passionately kissing is a legitimately big deal to Chad (either because he does have genuine feelings for Sage buried deep down, or because letting such a public challenge go unanswered would undermine the useful fiction that he cares about Sage). It would be a very natural spark to ignite a new conflict between Chad and the MC... if it happens.

If DPC wants that conflict either way, he will need a backup spark that can start the conflict for non-Sage-path MCs, or suppliment the conflict for Sage-path MCs. But that creates a new problem. If the backup spark is a minor issue, it will make the subsequent conflict feel utterly overblown - much like the MC angrily storming out on Maya and Josy felt hollow when players had declined to interact with them much. On the other hand, if the backup spark IS a big deal, it will run the risk of overwhelming the original spark. Those on the Sage-path could feel that their connection with Sage is being trivialized, because the overall story won't have anything to do with their actual relationship.

In short, I think trying to force both paths through the same events risks satisfying neither side. Better to either unify the path leading up to those events, or customize the events for each path.

The one thing I can think of that might create this conflct between Chad and the MC, even if it is just for appearances on Chad's side, could be if the MC and Sage start hanging out a bit more as it seems like they might after the conversation in ep 5 if you're not FWB with Sage. Perhaps the MC and Sage will hang out a couple of times very publicly, and then during one of these times Chad will appear to confront the MC and accuse him of trying to "steal his girl". This could also happen on the FWB path as well, with the MC and Sage spending more time together in public places, and each version would have some variations in dialogue and renders, i.e. a kiss on the FWB path, but not on the friend path.

I've long felt that Maya and Josy have had a much larger impact on the MC that the other girls. I'm not sure if that was a conscious choice on DPCs part, or that all the girls will wind up sucking the MC into a vortex of drama and they just happened to be the first in the queue.

As with many other topics, I'm hopeful Episode 6 will finally point us towards some answers.

After M&J, it's hard to see how anyone other than Bella is going to have drama that could even get close to their level. Sage has a boyfriend who doesn't seem interested in her, and Jill doesn't seem to have much in the way of personal problems, so both are relatively tame by comparison. Only Bella seems to be suffering from some kind of deep emotional trauma that could be very dramatic for her story and greatly affect her relationship with the MC.

It's also why I see it involving Jill in some way too (like my theory that whatever "happened" between them before is the reason her husband left), because there doesn't seem to be much solo drama around Jill and having hers linked to Bella's might be easier. But, at the same time, it might feel cheap to do so rather than giving her something of her own to deal with.

 

[xsssssssss]

personally I wonder if chad’s might be more annoyed at Sage not playing the perception of the doting girlfriend(which would be true regardless) more than whether she’s getting laid.
Easy to add some extra antagonism with MC on top of that if he is dik if they have another confrontation at some point.

 

[Wizard_Shiryuu]

That's precisely what I was saying would be a mistake.

If the game is going to treat you as having an affair with Sage regardless of whether you have an affair with Sage, what does the "choice" not to start an affair with Sage really mean?

I mean, if we play out your scenario, what are the possible end points?

1. Everyone believes MC/Sage is a thing: This makes those trying to avoid Sage feel railroaded. As I mentioned before, it's Maya/Josy 2: Redhead Boogaloo.
2. No one believes MC/Sage is a thing: The much foreshadowed confrontation with Chad becomes a nothing burger, despite all the blatant actions by MCs on the Sage path.
3. Non-Sage-path MCs easily prove their innocence, Sage-path MC have to deal with a major crisis: This avoids railroading the players, but then again, what was the point of accusing non-Sage-path MCs in the first place? It's also a major branch, making it extremely resource intensive.
4. Both paths face major crisis relating to Chad for other reasons, Sage-path MCs get additional scenes dealing with their affair: This seems like the best case by far, and you'll note that it gets nothing out of having Mel/Sarah lie about the MC and Sage.

Rather than offer a branching path only to force you back onto the rails at the first opportunity, I think it would be better to say the MC is young and horny and thus DOES fool around with all the LIs. Keep the narrative unified until we get to a point in the story where the choices we make can actually be reflected by the game around us.

Or just accept the branch and only have the MC accused of cheating with Sage when he did.

I understand your point, but I don't quite agree. I think there are three scenarios.

Sage path. Not much to say. I'm breaking with Chad so we might as well make it official kind of route. Pretty straightforward.

Other LI path with a MC who didn't have anything with Sage (Sarah and Melanie lie and have no evidence). Some drama with some LIs but nothing major. They should believe the MC's innocence.

Other LI path with a MC who had something with Sage. (Sarah and Melanie tell the truth and have evidence, maybe more than we think) That's the complicated stuff. Technically the MC can still fool around with anyone, specially after Maya's no strings attached last episode. But some LI (looking at you Jill) might not aprove. Jill knows we're dating other girls, but I don't know if that in her mind includes having sex with them. So despite not cheating on her she might want to stop it.

I don't think the it has to impact every LI route equally. It could still have a big impact on the story (demoting Sage, HOT trouble) but not affecting a Bella (to name one) path much.

 

[felicemastronzo]

I think it is too early for "jealousy" / "betrayal" problems with LIs

in the middle of the game it would be counterproductive to push a player towards a monogamous relationship, a little freedom must be guaranteed.
it is in everyone's interest, including DPC, that MC has interactions with the other LIs

 

[Wizard_Shiryuu]

I think it is too early for "jealousy" / "betrayal" problems with LIs

in the middle of the game it would be counterproductive to push a player towards a monogamous relationship, a little freedom must be guaranteed.
it is in everyone's interest, including DPC, that MC has interactions with the other LIs

I think the middle is the right time. Not locking until the end is pointless, and if you can't cheat (or there are no consecuences for it) there's also no good reason to play a faithful route.

 

[Manuka]

I finally did it. I mustered up the strength to do it, and I went full psycho this latest run through; I stole the money in Jill's room!

 

[Holy Bacchus]

I think it is too early for "jealousy" / "betrayal" problems with LIs

in the middle of the game it would be counterproductive to push a player towards a monogamous relationship, a little freedom must be guaranteed.
it is in everyone's interest, including DPC, that MC has interactions with the other LIs

Most people who play these games/VNs will likely be pursuing all the girls they can, not just one, because that's how most guys are; they want many different women without (much) consequence and these games let them live out that fantasy. So, to keep interest in the game for as long as possible, it can be very beneficial to allow players to continue having multiple relationships right up until the end, or near the end.

DPC can very easily keep all these relationships going until the last few episodes, even if the players have to make choices between certain girls that unlock different scenes, but there's no reason why we couldn't still be dating/seeing Maya, Josy, Sage, Jill, and Bella, with the occasional side pieces like Camila, Riona, Lily, Jade, etc.

 

[Mormont]

It is credible that Chad still has some suspicions about MC, regardless of whether it is true or not.

It's something Chad has never thought out properly like when he receives the note and pictures Chad right away assumes it's the MC doing I mean come on Chad the MC is pretty much just in the door and he thinks he is behind this big grand scheme but the jocks are more act now ask questions later types.

 

[felicemastronzo]

Most people who play these games/VNs will likely be pursuing all the girls they can, not just one, because that's how most guys are; they want many different women without (much) consequence and these games let them live out that fantasy. So, to keep interest in the game for as long as possible, it can be very beneficial to allow players to continue having multiple relationships right up until the end, or near the end.

DPC can very easily keep all these relationships going until the last few episodes, even if the players have to make choices between certain girls that unlock different scenes, but there's no reason why we couldn't still be dating/seeing Maya, Josy, Sage, Jill, and Bella, with the occasional side pieces like Camila, Riona, Lily, Jade, etc.

I believe that what we will do next, and also what we have already done, could have important consequences in the end of the game, but not immediately.

in this phase the more relationships we keep open and the more we can appreciate the work of DPC, the more we focus (with our choices) on a girl and the more we will see an "incomplete" storyline and limit our gaming experience.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

the third point would not be forced.
It is credible that Chad still has some suspicions about MC, regardless of whether it is true or not.

Except for the fact that if you don't give her guitar lessons and go down the FWB route, then the last interaction he had with Sage was the sparring session in ep 2, which means that it's been a whole week since they've been seen together in any capacity. Right now, if you're only friends, they haven't been seen together enough to warrant Chad's suspicion, so if he's going to become suspicious of the MC and Sage, or at least appear to be, it needs to be built up on the friend path and DPC could easily do that with the 2 of them hanging out in public on both the FWB and friend path.

I believe that what we will do next, and also what we have already done, could have important consequences in the end of the game, but not immediately.

in this phase the more relationships we keep open and the more we can appreciate the work of DPC, the more we focus (with our choices) on a girl and the more we will see an "incomplete" storyline and limit our gaming experience.

Exactly. Allowing players to sustain relationships with as many girls as possible for as long as possible makes the game feel that much fuller than if you're just pursuing one LI, and hopefully this game won't force that kind of choice upon us too early.

Also, I hope that we won't have to go too far back in the game to make different choices for certain LI endings. It was fine with AL because that was only 8 chapters, but if you have to go all the back to ep 3 to get a certain ending in ep 16, then that will be rather frustrating.

 

[felicemastronzo]

Also, I hope that we won't have to go too far back in the game to make different choices for certain LI endings. It was fine with AL because that was only 8 chapters, but if you have to go all the back to ep 3 to get a certain ending in ep 16, then that will be rather frustrating.

unfortunately I think that's inevitable.
already now the pact with M&J I think is a fundamental crossroads for some endings (not only for that of the "little harem")

but also guitar lessons, the slap in Tybalt could already be important turning points

such a long game will have problems with replayability

 

[Manuka]

I believe that what we will do next, and also what we have already done, could have important consequences in the end of the game, but not immediately.

in this phase the more relationships we keep open and the more we can appreciate the work of DPC, the more we focus (with our choices) on a girl and the more we will see an "incomplete" storyline and limit our gaming experience.

If the goal is to appreciate the work, of DPA, then playing each route would be a better idea instead of having more relationships. And despite what Holy Bacchus had said, I think most will be aiming at best for only two different girls because there is a bigger better playing experience when you get the full story of your choices (you can learn more about the character you like). DPA himself said that this game is not centered around sex. It just happens to have sex in it. So going for all girls is not the route you wanna take.

Moreover, there seems to be a great divide. You have your puritans lol who want to go with Jill (cough) but still need to go the Bella route. Then you got your Josie's, which makes you stay with Maya. But then there's Sage who kinda stands on her own. Then again she doesn't have much of a story as the others (yet), so people will most likely choose another girl to fool around with.

 

[Wizard_Shiryuu]

I finally did it. I mustered up the strength to do it, and I went full psycho this latest run through; I stole the money in Jill's room!

I've never done it in any path. You don't really need money in this game and it's just antagonizing someone for no reason. If she deserved it at least...

 

[always86]

I believe that what we will do next, and also what we have already done, could have important consequences in the end of the game, but not immediately.

in this phase the more relationships we keep open and the more we can appreciate the work of DPC, the more we focus (with our choices) on a girl and the more we will see an "incomplete" storyline and limit our gaming experience.

I don’t think we are supposed to of chosen yet. The game is designed with the expectation that you see lots of sex scenes. The MC is working out what/ who he wants in life and he’s pretty open with all of the girls about it. In fact the only LI who doesn’t know he is dating others is Sage and technically she’s the one who suggested they be fuck buddies.

I think a choice will come possibly at the end of Season 2 depending how many episodes we get. He has had estimates that range from 12 to 18 I think. That’s another 7 episodes minimum but could wind up being 13 more. He could GRRM it and end with even more than 18. That being the case I think he will be cautious about locking us in to one character early on.

I for one would want a path where we get multiple specific scenes with each LI if we are forced to choose in order to flesh out the story. If we have 1 Bella sex scene and then the usual amount of plot, we’d essentially be missing and hours worth of stuff each chapter, maybe even longer.

 

[felicemastronzo]

If the goal is to appreciate the work, of DPA, then playing each route would be a better idea instead of having more relationships. And despite what Holy Bacchus had said, I think most will be aiming at best for only two different girls because there is a bigger better playing experience when you get the full story of your choices (you can learn more about the character you like). DPA himself said that this game is not centered around sex. It just happens to have sex in it. So going for all girls is not the route you wanna take.

Moreover, there seems to be a great divide. You have your puritans lol who want to go with Jill (cough) but still need to go the Bella route. Then you got your Josie's, which makes you stay with Maya. But then there's Sage who kinda stands on her own. Then again she doesn't have much of a story as the others (yet), so people will most likely choose another girl to fool around with.

there will be time to explore the individual routes. but for that you have to wait for the game to be complete.

and certainly on individual routes we will find inconsistencies, related to facts that have occurred or are known, but which actually belong to other routes.

we will get to know the plot better by wandering from one girl to another, we probably won't have the best of the endings, but still a wider vision.

but already now in fact Maya, Josy and Sage share "a lot of plot", in the same way Bella and Jill

 

[lemonfreak]

I've never done it in any path. You don't really need money in this game and it's just antagonizing someone for no reason. If she deserved it at least...

I did it once thinking it might be a render, reloaded immediately, would hate for Jill to take Tybalt's lie seriously.

 

[SpikeZg]

did someone posted Quinn & Cathy renders?

 

[Holy Bacchus]

there will be time to explore the individual routes. but for that you have to wait for the game to be complete.

and certainly on individual routes we will find inconsistencies, related to facts that have occurred or are known, but which actually belong to other routes.

we will get to know the plot better by wandering from one girl to another, we probably won't have the best of the endings, but still a wider vision.

but already now in fact Maya, Josy and Sage share "a lot of plot", in the same way Bella and Jill

Agreed. We already saw that with M&J and how the MC storming out didn't feel right for those who weren't really pursuing them, as did the feelings expressed by M&J towards the MC later in the episode.

You actually get a much more complete picture of things if you go with all the LIs and when you make other decisions, like taking Quinn's number which gives you a lot more insight into her operations.

did someone posted Quinn & Cathy renders?

Sorrow85 posted the Quinn one yesterday, and we haven't seen a Cathy one. Is that today's?

EDIT: Yes, it's Cathy today! Now waiting on either N7 or Sorrow85 to be the hero we need.

 

[SpikeZg]

Agreed. We already saw that with M&J and how the MC storming out didn't feel right for those who weren't really pursuing them, as did the feelings expressed by M&J towards the MC later in the episode.

You actually get a much more complete picture of things if you go with all the LIs and when you make other decisions, like taking Quinn's number which gives you a lot more insight into her operations.



Sorrow85 posted the Quinn one yesterday, and we haven't seen a Cathy one. Is that today's?

EDIT: Yes, it's Cathy today! Now waiting on either N7 or Sorrow85 to be the hero we need.

yeah, today, 20 mins ago