VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.11.1] [DrPinkCake]

[xsssssssss]

'Asshole' is not a synonym of 'evil'. There's a huge difference between someone who does terrible and despicable things without any moral conscience, and someone who just acts like a bit of an arrogant prick. The MC on the DIK path would be the latter.

The different paths are something of a reflection of attitude but there are admittedly some grey areas there, such as smoking pot which this game considers a bad action when it really isn't, and rejecting Jade and Cathy which is seen as good likely due to the ethical issue of having an affair with a teacher, but neither should really be treated as purely bad or purely good.

Generally speaking, the DIK attitude would seem to be one where the MC is cocky, juvenile,and selfish, whilst the CHICK attitude would seem to be one where the MC is humble, mature, and selfless. Again, there are some grey areas here with regards to some of these personality traits given what we've seen of how the MC handles certain situtations, but overall when it comes to the choices, actions, and lines of dialogue specifically associated with these affinities, this is how these different sides to the MC generally come across.

So if Quinn, after potentially coming to grips with the harsh reality of her situation, were to present herself to the MC as genuinely sincere in her desire to "get out" of her situation, and shows some of that vulnerable, "scared shitless" side we've had glimpses of, as well as perhaps expressing some level of acknowledgement that what she did was wrong, I would think that the decision to help her get out of it is more likely to fall on the CHICK side and the DIK decision would be to tell her to sort her own mess out. Alternatively, a CHICK decision could be a sincere offer of help with no strings attached, whilst a DIK decision could be one where the MC will use/blackmail Quinn into doing something for them later.

Either way, in the event that Quinn could come to the MC for help and the player is presented with a choice, the CHICK decision is not likely to be one that rejects helping her because to not help someone in need would go against the general attitude of that affinity.

As far as i'm concerned
So DIK MC can be more reckless, thoughtless, less moral, less lawful
The Chick MC can be cautious, thoughtful, moral, lawful
if a character like quinn (somebody a chick refers to as evil) comes looking for help its going to be the more reckless/less lawful and less moral dik would be willing to help her whereas the lawful/moral chick would tell her she needs to face the consequences.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

As far as i'm concerned
So DIK MC can be more reckless, thoughtless, less moral, less lawful
The Chick MC can be cautious, thoughtful, moral, lawful
if a character like quinn (somebody a chick refers to as evil) comes looking for help its going to be the more reckless/less lawful and less moral dik would be willing to help her whereas the lawful/moral chick would tell her she needs to face the consequences.

If a downbeaten, downtrodden Quinn, who now sees the grave seriousness of her situation, were to come to the MC looking for help, not helping her would not be something that a "good guy" CHICK would do. You say that a CHICK MC can be "thoughtful", well then the "thoughtful" thing to do in such a scenario is to help her.

This is why this is a grey area, because being a CHICK MC doesn't make him a saint just as being a DIK MC doesn't make him the devil. A CHICK MC can want Quinn to face some justice for her actions but also not want to see any harm come to her and want to help her get out of her situation if such a chance were to arise. The MC might not like Quinn and he might have called her "evil" in an over-exaggerated attempt to protect Maya from her, but that doesn't mean he would callously throw her to the wolves if she was in dire need of help. How is that such a difficult concept to grasp?

I suppose the nature of the "help" could be the issue, and if she wants him to help her sell drugs or do some other criminal acts to get her out of the hole she's dug for herself, then that gets back into that moral grey area. But if it's about finding her an out that doesn't cross over into criminal territory, then I see no reason why a CHICK MC wouldn't or shouldn't help her.

 

[cryhwks]

Personally I don't like Quinn, on a base level, I think she looks like a 35 yo, that's just smoke 2-3 packs of cigarettes a day since she was like 16 or something.

And from everything I've seen of her, in the words of the Joker "You get what you fucking deserve." I just have zero sympathy for drug dealing pimp.

 

[xsssssssss]

If a downbeaten, downtrodden Quinn, who now sees the grave seriousness of her situation, were to come to the MC looking for help, not helping her would not be something that a "good guy" CHICK would do. You say that a CHICK MC can be "thoughtful", well then the "thoughtful" thing to do in such a scenario is to help her.

This is why this is a grey area, because being a CHICK MC doesn't make him a saint just as being a DIK MC doesn't make him the devil. A CHICK MC can want Quinn to face some justice for her actions but also not want to see any harm come to her and want to help get out of her situation if such a chance were to arise. The MC might not like Quinn and he might have called her "evil" in an over-exaggerated attempt to protect Maya from her, but that doesn't mean he would callously throw her to the wolves if she was in dire need of help. How is that such a difficult concept to grasp?

I don't see anything callous about a chick MC wishing her the best and advising her that doing the right thing is her best course of action. That seems perfectly in keeping with chick traits we've seen.
Taking risks, embracing conflict, helping her avoid a degree of justice that seems perfectly in keeping with Dik traits we've seen.

 

[felicemastronzo]

If a downbeaten, downtrodden Quinn, who now sees the grave seriousness of her situation, were to come to the MC looking for help, not helping her would not be something that a "good guy" CHICK would do. You say that a CHICK MC can be "thoughtful", well then the "thoughtful" thing to do in such a scenario is to help her.

This is why this is a grey area, because being a CHICK MC doesn't make him a saint just as being a DIK MC doesn't make him the devil. A CHICK MC can want Quinn to face some justice for her actions but also not want to see any harm come to her and want to help her get out of her situation if such a chance were to arise. The MC might not like Quinn and he might have called her "evil" in an over-exaggerated attempt to protect Maya from her, but that doesn't mean he would callously throw her to the wolves if she was in dire need of help. How is that such a difficult concept to grasp?

I suppose the nature of the "help" could be the issue, and if she wants him to help her sell drugs or do some other criminal acts to get her out of the hole she's dug for herself, then that gets back into that moral grey area. But if it's about finding her an out that doesn't cross over into criminal territory, then I see no reason why a CHICK MC wouldn't or shouldn't help her.

Quinn doesn't need an extra drug dealer and in case she wouldn't ask MC, which she has no reason to trust him particularly.

MC would only be involved in case of serious danger, in which case if MC were Chick he would not leave Quinn (and the others involved) alone but he certainly would not tolerate the business that created all these problems, Quinn should at least promise to give up all.

if MC were Dik he would help her anyway but he would probably do it for the adrenaline or to gain something (even in sexual terms). I don't think a real partnership, mainly because it would be complicated to manage


however, there are two other possibilities.

Quinn could blackmail MC into helping her (there are many possibilities: the relationship between Maya and Josy, some MC adventure ...), in that case Chick or Dik would make little difference

and finally, if at that moment MC had access to family money (which one?), the help could simply be financial

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Quinn doesn't need an extra drug dealer and in case she wouldn't ask MC, which she has no reason to trust him particularly.

That's not likely to happen anyway and it's not what I'm saying when I refer to her potentially seeking his help.

MC would only be involved in case of serious danger, in which case if MC were Chick he would not leave Quinn (and the others involved) alone but he certainly would not tolerate the business that created all these problems, Quinn should at least promise to give up all.

if MC were Dik he would help her anyway but he would probably do it for the adrenaline or to gain something (even in sexual terms). I don't think a real partnership, mainly because it would be complicated to manage

This is pretty much what I've been saying and how I look at it. Quinn's in over her head, and we the audience/player have seen signs that she knows this but continues with the tough girl act. So if Quinn or others are put in harms way because of her actions, a CHICK MC will want to help her if it means protecting others and Quinn to an extent since not liking her doesn't mean he would want to see her harmed.

however, there are two other possibilities.

Quinn could blackmail MC into helping her (there are many possibilities: the relationship between Maya and Josy, some MC adventure ...), in that case Chick or Dik would make little difference

and finally, if at that moment MC had access to family money (which one?), the help could simply be financial

Blackmail's certainly a possibility and definitely something Quinn is capable of, so I could see that happening. But even if his "help" were to start off in such a way, there's still scope for a softening of the relationship to the point where a DIK/CHICK choice can be made.

Overall though, I just don't have such harsh feelings towards Quinn as some others do and I understand that people like this aren't always bad people. Majority of the time, people like Quinn just need to be shown there's another way and to be given the support and compassion to better themselves which is why I really hope we see something like that for her.

 

[felicemastronzo]

That's not likely to happen anyway and it's not what I'm saying when I refer to her potentially seeking his help.



This is pretty much what I've been saying and how I look at it. Quinn's in over her head, and we the audience/player have seen signs that she knows this but continues with the tough girl act. So if Quinn or others are put in harms way because of her actions, a CHICK MC will want to help her if it means protecting others and Quinn to an extent since not liking her doesn't mean he would want to see her harmed.



Blackmail's certainly a possibility and definitely something Quinn is capable of, so I could see that happening. But even if his "help" were to start off in such a way, there's still scope for a softening of the relationship to the point where a DIK/CHICK choice can be made.

Overall though, I just don't have such harsh feelings towards Quinn as some others do and I understand that people like this aren't always bad people. Majority of the time, people like Quinn just need to be shown there's another way and to be given the support and compassion to better themselves which is why I really hope we see something like that for her.

I'm not particularly fascinated by Quinn.

but until her motives are clear to me, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt.

 

[xsssssssss]

however, there are two other possibilities.

Quinn could blackmail MC into helping her (there are many possibilities: the relationship between Maya and Josy, some MC adventure ...), in that case Chick or Dik would make little difference

and finally, if at that moment MC had access to family money (which one?), the help could simply be financial

I hope the blackmail possibility isn’t one he pursues as i’m Sure that would end very badly for her, though i’m Not sure that’s worse than changing her very nature of a chick conversion fantasy.

If we have family money I guess there could be varied options of the purpose of any financial help.

 

[AchedCroissant]

BTW where is the twins?

 

[felicemastronzo]

I hope the blackmail possibility isn’t one he pursues as i’m Sure that would end very badly for her, though i’m Not sure that’s worse than changing her very nature of a chick conversion fantasy.

If we have family money I guess there could be varied options of the purpose of any financial help.

what blackmail are you referring to?

it wouldn't be a conversion to Chick, too radical and making Quinn's character useless.
But at the moment Quinn is a real criminal, which is beyond being a negative character. get rid of the drug issue, her position would normalize enough.

I know it is my personal position, but I still believe that the restaurant issue is more serious for us than for DPC

 

[felicemastronzo]

BTW where is the twins?

Derek and Maya, which in fact everyone confuses

 

[AchedCroissant]

Derek and Maya, which in fact everyone confuses

Oh right I forgot xD yeah i remember I says to Maya them she have the good genes

 

[murphy88]

You will have to dump her in most routes, eventually.

Never!

 

[Holy Bacchus]

what blackmail are you referring to?

it wouldn't be a conversion to Chick, too radical and making Quinn's character useless.
But at the moment Quinn is a real criminal, which is beyond being a negative character. get rid of the drug issue, her position would normalize enough.

I know it is my personal position, but I still believe that the restaurant issue is more serious for us than for DPC

The one you suggested. You said Quinn could maybe blackmail the MC into helping her, with what we don't know, but it's a possibility.

I also find it amusing that some people (not saying you) think the possibility of Quinn turning a corner and becoming a slightly different character at the end would somehow "ruin" her character, as if she can't still be an edgy, provocative little minx, without also being a drug dealing pimp. "Saving" Quinn doesn't mean turning her into Mother Theresa, it would just be about resolving and removing those issues that are the worst parts of her character, but her personality can remain intact, albeit perhaps a bit softer than before.

 

[felicemastronzo]

The one you suggested. You said Quinn could maybe blackmail the MC into helping her, with what we don't know, but it's a possibility.

I also find it amusing that some people (not saying you) think the possibility of Quinn turning a corner and becoming a slightly different character at the end would somehow "ruin" her character, as if she can't still be an edgy, provocative little minx, without also being a drug dealing pimp. "Saving" Quinn doesn't mean turning her into Mother Theresa, it would just be about resolving and removing those issues that are the worst parts of her character, but her personality can remain intact, albeit perhaps a bit softer than before.

sorry

I thought he was referring to a particular reason for the blackmail

 

[xsssssssss]

what blackmail are you referring to?

it wouldn't be a conversion to Chick, too radical and making Quinn's character useless.
But at the moment Quinn is a real criminal, which is beyond being a negative character. get rid of the drug issue, her position would normalize enough.

I know it is my personal position, but I still believe that the restaurant issue is more serious for us than for DPC

Your scenario of her blackmailing the Mc.

Mc uses drugs, so I don’t see why her dealing is real criminal beyond the pale. He may take it in some puritanical way but I certainly hope not. I don’t see the dealer being the major big bad but I guess we’ll see. Restaurant attempting to involve li’s i don’t think he’s not going to take non seriously.

 

[felicemastronzo]

Your scenario of her blackmailing the Mc.

Mc uses drugs, so I don’t see why her dealing is real criminal beyond the pale. He may take it in some puritanical way but I certainly hope not. I don’t see the dealer being the major big bad but I guess we’ll see. Restaurant attempting to involve li’s i don’t think he’s not going to take non seriously.

I wouldn't want to make a too serious speech, but personally between a joint and a syringe there is a big difference.
the joint on the roof is an acceptable nonsense, dealing hard drugs is criminal and very dangerous.

on the restaurant I know that my position is questionable, I will probably be wrong as I have often done.

on the involvement of LIs in the restaurant: in the end we talk about Maya (Josy seems very unlikely to me). narratively it could also be interesting but it would be too dramatic a turn which I don't expect

 

[Maviarab]

I wouldn't want to make a too serious speech, but personally between a joint and a syringe there is a big difference.
the joint on the roof is an acceptable nonsense, dealing hard drugs is criminal and very dangerous.

on the restaurant I know that my position is questionable, I will probably be wrong as I have often done.

on the involvement of LIs in the restaurant: in the end we talk about Maya (Josy seems very unlikely to me). narratively it could also be interesting but it would be too dramatic a turn which I don't expect

Agreed. I also won't make a big speech, I'd upset a lot of people in this thread given i imagine most are from the States (and the game seems likely set there also). I will say though there is one hell of a difference between taking and dealing.

Resteraunt I have no opinion on as long as the girl is doing what she is doing purely out of her own free will. (by that I mean 'purely'...not she is doing it of 'free will' but only because she needs her next fix etc. Think escort, not prostitute).

As for LI's, unless (as HB and I have said before) the 'corruption' and 'ntr' tags suddenly appear....then it isn't happening, not going to happen and it's pointless drama for something we already know isn't going to happen. It might start to (for more drama), but we will be make sure it doesn't get that far.

 

[felicemastronzo]

Agreed. I also won't make a big speech, I'd upset a lot of people in this thread given i imagine most are from the States (and the game seems likely set there also). I will say though there is one hell of a difference between taking and dealing.

Resteraunt I have no opinion on as long as the girl is doing what she is doing purely out of her own free will. (by that I mean 'purely'...not she is doing it of 'free will' but only because she needs her next fix etc. Think escort, not prostitute).

As for LI's, unless (as HB and I have said before) the 'corruption' and 'ntr' tags suddenly appear....then it isn't happening, not going to happen and it's pointless drama for something we already know isn't going to happen. It might start to (for more drama), but we will be make sure it doesn't get that far.

already with NTR I am more confused than before ... apparently in games if there is no Mc it is always NTR

what is strictly meant by the "corruption" tag?

in the Hentai field (the only one I know) would correspond to a permanent change in the "morality" / "sexuality" of a character

it does not necessarily go that far

 

[xsssssssss]

I wouldn't want to make a too serious speech, but personally between a joint and a syringe there is a big difference.
the joint on the roof is an acceptable nonsense, dealing hard drugs is criminal and very dangerous.

on the restaurant I know that my position is questionable, I will probably be wrong as I have often done.

on the involvement of LIs in the restaurant: in the end we talk about Maya (Josy seems very unlikely to me). narratively it could also be interesting but it would be too dramatic a turn which I don't expect

we don’t know what the harder drugs are or what angle he’s going for. Unless it’s a puritanical angle, all drugs is bad, it should be ok for to still be selling it if people are still smoking it

Restaurant is a house of cards that’s going to fall on her head regardless of whether girls make it to the menu.
Bad husband who also abuses position to pay for sex with students isn’t likely to not explode.
Plus You’ve Ashley who feels like a maya li setup ending for Derek, who is being involved.