VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.11.1] [DrPinkCake]

[felicemastronzo]

Two scenes flags ? It's kinda obvious from the start she's more fond of Dik MC. Ep1, first time they meet in Hot'shower, the MC can only be involved if he has at least 2 Dik pt. She confesses liking his daring behavior. Maybe you don't remember but even during dialogues she usually reacts more positively to Dik's responses.

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In others words, the Chick/Neutral MC made DIK's choices and acted like a DIK. Throughout the first 4 episodes, every opportunity to get closer to Quinn requiered DIK Affinity ( Sage path Ep4 scene in her dorm), DIK Affinity choice ( Threesome Ep3 & Sex scene on the roof Ep4), Dik responses (Cumpetition Ep2) or Dik points (Hot shower Ep1). Sure a Chick/Neutral MC can unlock nearly all those scenes but in order to do it, the players can't choose the Chick options/responses. The signs were obvious from the start.

Honestly it's kinda out of a character for a Chick MC to use the restaurant and leave Maya behind to shamelessly fuck Quinn & Riona. DPC didn't close the option for a Chick/Neutral path because he probably felt it was way too soon to deny lewd scenes for players, especially considering the Full Chick path is kinda poor in term of content. The same way a Dik MC can still fuck Josy in Ep2 and Maya in Ep3. But we're in the second season now, he has to shorter the ramifications and make the Affinity more relevant. We can't have everything forever. Sure, it could be handled better. In the same spirit, I would say it makes little sense that fucking Riona & Camilia in Ep5 requires accepting the restaurant offer. Both are on friendly term with the MC no matter what and clearly find him attractive. As for Quinn, her appreciation toward the MC remains consistent, if you want to have fun with her you must be Dik.

And why in the hell a Chick MC on M&J path would want to start a semi-sexual/romantic relationship with Quinn ? Quinn aka the second person Maya despises the most ? Her of all people ? Dating 5 different girls isn't messy enough ? Does it even sound moral or smart to you ? It isn't. To quote the MC :

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You're angry but DPC actually spared you a lot of useless drama.

I'm not so sure DPC will be so lenient ...

at the limit then it was the sex with Quinn that had to be "blocked" and not the whole scene

the problem with the affinity is that it is not constant in the game, you may have been Chick all the time until chapter 4/5 (taking the number from Quinn, going to the restaurant and taking drugs on the roof) having chosen to be just friends with J + M and then between Caleb, Tybalt and Tommy find you DIK for the big date with Quinn.

so I would not be looking for narrative coherence (because you can carry on an MC chick much more bastard than the DIK one), it is a choice to diversify the games, to create crossroads on the contents. okay, it's not a problem, but it's not a law written in stone, it could have gone differently without problems

 

[shazba]

Count me as one of those people.

It honestly didn't and still doesn't make sense that she only accepts on the DIK path and because of just 2 moment/scene flags; taking her number and fucking her in Ep 4. Yes, there's also the M&J relationship flag which some people said was because she somehow through intuition knows they have a thing, but whether you're with M&J or not and whether you have sex with her in Ep 6 or not, she'll make a reference to Maya being his "soon-to-be girlfriend", so no matter path you're on, she thinks there's something going on between them so why should this stop her on the non-DIK M&J path?

The other thing is that someone playing a Neutral or partly CHICK run can take her number, use all her services, win the cum-petition, have a threesome with her and Riona, stay with Sage and get part of the scene with her in her room, and have sex with her in Ep 4 yet be rejected, whilst someone on a DIK run can take her number, not use any of her services, lose the cum-petition on purpose, not have a threesome with her and Riona, not stay Sage and not have the scene with Quinn in her room, and have sex with her in Ep 4 yet they don't get rejected.

In these scenarios, the outcome doesn't really seem to fit what the player could have done as you'd think that a MC who's done everything they can with Quinn would have their offer of help accepted regardless of Affinity or status since all of these other things can be done with any Affinity and status, so locking it to that here and putting such minimal requirements of prior decisions just doesn't seem right in my opinion.

it is absolutely not clear how being in the trouple can be an obstacle for Quinn.

let's start from the fact that Quinn can't know, in fact nobody knows except the participants and Derek. but even if she knew why would that stop her? indeed it would be one more reason, the fact that MC was the Ken doll of the barbie Maya has always been something that has amused her ..

I continue to see the strong will to mark the path, in my opinion, canon with M + J compared to the others

Jade, Cathe and Quinn are on the other path, they are the consolation prize

Hmm you really did take that Quinn rejection hard in Ch.6, didn't you! Seriously though I've seen you argue this a few times and you do make some good points about Quinn rejecting MC's help even if the interactions with her would suggest otherwise. Previously I've disagreed with you, because I do think affinity/status is a key mechanic and kind of affects the way Quinn (and other characters) relate to the MC in important ways, and that Quinn prefers the DIK personality, so I view it as a necessary condition. But seeing you lay out the opposite, above - i.e. that you could really avoid a lot of key Quinn interactions and still have her accept your help if only you're on the DIK path - has made me think you might be onto something. I guess my suggested fix though would be that both DIK affinity AND all the Quinn interactions should be necessary to have her accept MC's help, rather than make either sufficient on their own.

Perhaps the mistake is considering what happens with Quinn in episode 6 as something consequential to the previous choices. Maybe it is to be seen as something that will instead have consequences in the future for which having Dik status or Chick status becomes fundamental.
I'm probably saying a bullshit, but maybe having sex with Quinn puts some sort of important line on what was before and what will be next. And it can also be seen in the next scene, when around the table with Sage she herself pushes a chair to make the protagonist feel, showing a side of herself that we have never seen before.
I don't know if I've made myself clear. I meant: rather than looking into the past of actions taken, perhaps helping Quinn is a key to opening up a whole range of future scenarios. A kind of "no turning back" thing.

That's what it seemed to me too.

The first thing to realize is people are asking the wrong question. "How do I get to fuck Quinn in Ep6?". Wrong question. The fucking comes later. The question that should be asked is, "How do I get Quinn to trust my MC and open up to him, even just a little?" Because that's what this is about.

When the mc offers Quinn help, she's not thinking, "OK, do I wanna fuck this guy again?". She's thinking, "Do I wanna lower my guard to this guy?" Of course she doesn't consciously think those words. People who have built a barrier around themselves subconsciously push people away, either by withdrawing (KRJ, sorry guys, she's gonna be a lotta work) or in Quinn's case, an aggressive, spiteful exterior.

Of course it's just a computer program so we can look at the variables to see what makes up the logic, and if we take those few conditions as standalone states that have no bearing on the mc's personality, it can lead us to question the logic.

But it's not that simple. Not for someone like Quinn.

Quinn accepting the MC's help is her opening up and trusting someone. That's not something she does. Even Riona, her closest ally, is often treated as a subordinate. Sage, her HOT mother, she keeps in the dark half the time. Tommy, her "friend"? She doesn't even tell him that she's ditching the DIKs big end of Hell Week party for the prep party, even though Sage told her to tell him or Rusty.

So who would she let her guard down to, for them to help her? Who does the mc need to be for Quinn to lower that guard. He needs to be someone she likes, and someone she feels she can trust.

Who does she like? She likes DIKs. Which ones? Certainly not the beta DIKs which make up most of the fraternity. She likes the kinda DIKs that take charge, handle shit, basically an alpha.

Who can she trust? No one.

When the mc said those words:

"Come with me, let me have a closer look at it."​

She responded with:

"I don't need your help."​

Of course she did. It's Quinn. Already putting those defenses up.

But here's the kicker. It wasn't Quinn that made the next step, it was the MC.

The MC who isn't a DIK by nature, or who's all wrapped up with M&J, or who never fucked Quinn on the DIK roof, that guy, he pathetically responds with:

"Hey! Wait!"​

"Quinn..."​

As she turns and walks away.

But the true DIK, who knows this girl, and isn't caught up in some convoluted threesome with a bunch of high maintenance drama queens, that guy, he doesn't wait for Quinn to walk away, he responds with:

"Yeah, I get it. You're strong and independent."​

"Bravo! Do this for me."​

And Quinn drops her guard for a bit. And the rest is history.

So it's not about Quinn being omniscient and knowing whether the MC is in a relationship with M&J. It's about the mc being more assertive at that moment in time. And the MC is the sum of all his actions and experiences.

 

[felicemastronzo]

The first thing to realize is people are asking the wrong question. "How do I get to fuck Quinn in Ep6?". Wrong question. The fucking comes later. The question that should be asked is, "How do I get Quinn to trust my MC and open up to him, even just a little?" Because that's what this is about.

When the mc offers Quinn help, she's not thinking, "OK, do I wanna fuck this guy again?". She's thinking, "Do I wanna lower my guard to this guy?" Of course she doesn't consciously think those words. People who have built a barrier around themselves subconsciously push people away, either by withdrawing (KRJ, sorry guys, she's gonna be a lotta work) or in Quinn's case, an aggressive, spiteful exterior.

Of course it's just a computer program so we can look at the variables to see what makes up the logic, and if we take those few conditions as standalone states that have no bearing on the mc's personality, it can lead us to question the logic.

But it's not that simple. Not for someone like Quinn.

Quinn accepting the MC's help is her opening up and trusting someone. That's not something she does. Even Riona, her closest ally, is often treated as a subordinate. Sage, her HOT mother, she keeps in the dark half the time. Tommy, her "friend"? She doesn't even tell him that she's ditching the DIKs big end of Hell Week party for the prep party, even though Sage told her to tell him or Rusty.

So who would she let her guard down to, for them to help her? Who does the mc need to be for Quinn to lower that guard. He needs to be someone she likes, and someone she feels she can trust.

Who does she like? She likes DIKs. Which ones? Certainly not the beta DIKs which make up most of the fraternity. She likes the kinda DIKs that take charge, handle shit, basically an alpha.

Who can she trust? No one.

When the mc said those words:

"Come with me, let me have a closer look at it."​

She responded with:

"I don't need your help."​

Of course she did. It's Quinn. Already putting those defenses up.

But here's the kicker. It wasn't Quinn that made the next step, it was the MC.

The MC who isn't a DIK by nature, or who's all wrapped up with M&J, or who never fucked Quinn on the DIK roof, that guy, he pathetically responds with:

"Hey! Wait!"​

"Quinn..."​

As she turns and walks away.

But the true DIK, who knows this girl, and isn't caught up in some convoluted threesome with a bunch of high maintenance drama queens, that guy, he doesn't wait for Quinn to walk away, he responds with:

"Yeah, I get it. You're strong and independent."​

"Bravo! Do this for me."​

And Quinn drops her guard for a bit. And the rest is history.

So it's not about Quinn being omniscient and knowing whether the MC is in a relationship with M&J. It's about the mc being more assertive at that moment in time. And the MC is the sum of all his actions and experiences.

I don't think I understand

I agree with your premise: the point is to gain Quinn's trust, sex is a consequence of it

DPC choose a series of conditions for Quinn to trust him, to me these conditions do not seem so absolute and objective, they are a choice.

moving the problem from conditions to MC's response does not change anything ... MC responds like this if it has certain flags ..

the game doesn't have this rigidity on affinity at all and more normally, a very Chick MC may very well have sex with Jade and show the video.

every now and then, however, affinity, or other conditions, suddenly become insuperable constraints. as players we have to accept it but we can also not consider it right

 

[Holy Bacchus]

it is absolutely not clear how being in the trouple can be an obstacle for Quinn.

let's start from the fact that Quinn can't know, in fact nobody knows except the participants and Derek. but even if she knew why would that stop her? indeed it would be one more reason, the fact that MC was the Ken doll of the barbie Maya has always been something that has amused her ..

I continue to see the strong will to mark the path, in my opinion, canon with M + J compared to the others

Jade, Cathe and Quinn are on the other path, they are the consolation prize

The game even seems to make it clear that it's not an obstacle when Quinn calls Maya the MC's "soon-to-be girlfriend" after they had sex the previous night. This, to me, seems to blow a hole in the presumption that her refusing his help on the M&J path is because she thinks they have a thing and doesn't like that because she clearly thinks that even if you're not on the M&J path and even if you've avoided all optional Maya interactions.

For me, this is another example of this game being more on-rails than it might seem and not really reflecting the different array of choices and directions accurately.

Hmm you really did take that Quinn rejection hard in Ch.6, didn't you! Seriously though I've seen you argue this a few times and you do make some good points about Quinn rejecting MC's help even if the interactions with her would suggest otherwise. Previously I've disagreed with you, because I do think affinity/status is a key mechanic and kind of affects the way Quinn (and other characters) relate to the MC in important ways, and that Quinn prefers the DIK personality, so I view it as a necessary condition. But seeing you lay out the opposite, above - i.e. that you could really avoid a lot of key Quinn interactions and still have her accept your help if only you're on the DIK path - has made me think you might be onto something. I guess my suggested fix though would be that both DIK affinity AND all the Quinn interactions should be necessary to have her accept MC's help, rather than make either sufficient on their own.

As I've said, I just think her reaction based on a few flags doesn't accurately represent how you could have interacted with Quinn overall. You can have CHICK Affinity and do the threesome with her and Riona where the MC almost kisses her and she looks like a deer caught in surprisingly affectionate headlights and then stay with Sage where she tells him Quinn might like him, so the game seems to be indicating that being a CHICK with Quinn is no big deal until this point in Ep 6 where it suddenly and surprisingly becomes an impedement.

It's similar in a way to M&J rejecting a DIK MC even if that DIK MC has done everything with both those characters and has as much RP as they can get with them because how is this distinction, which is purely just a game mechanic, enough to completely change their minds when what they've seen and known of him is the exact same as the Neutral and CHICK paths? The roadblocks this game puts in place due to affinity and status often don't make sense and just seem completely abitrary in order to force people to experience other paths to see this other content rather than basing it more on the sum total of the MC's actions.

In others words, the Chick/Neutral MC made DIK's choices and acted like a DIK. Throughout the first 4 episodes, every opportunity to get closer to Quinn requiered DIK Affinity ( Sage path Ep4 scene in her dorm), DIK Affinity choice ( Threesome Ep3 & Sex scene on the roof Ep4), Dik responses (Cumpetition Ep2) or Dik points (Hot shower Ep1). Sure a Chick/Neutral MC can unlock nearly all those scenes but in order to do it, the players can't choose the Chick options/responses. The signs were obvious from the start.

Honestly it's kinda out of a character for a Chick MC to use the restaurant and leave Maya behind to shamelessly fuck Quinn & Riona. DPC didn't close the option for a Chick/Neutral path because he probably felt it was way too soon to deny lewd scenes for players, especially considering the Full Chick path is kinda poor in term of content. The same way a Dik MC can still fuck Josy in Ep2 and Maya in Ep3. But we're in the second season now, he has to shorter the ramifications and make the Affinity more relevant. We can't have everything forever. Sure, it could be handled better. In the same spirit, I would say it makes little sense that fucking Riona & Camilia in Ep5 requires accepting the restaurant offer. Both are on friendly term with the MC no matter what and clearly find him attractive. As for Quinn, her appreciation toward the MC remains consistent, if you want to have fun with her you must be Dik.

And why in the hell a Chick MC on M&J path would want to start a semi-sexual/romantic relationship with Quinn ? Quinn aka the second person Maya despises the most ? Her of all people ? Dating 5 different girls isn't messy enough ? Does it even sound moral or smart to you ?

See, this is another issue I have with this DIK/CHICK system as it makes people think these are black and white issues. Yes, the MC has to make some DIK choices to get certain scenes and moments with Quinn, but it doesn't make him a DIK nor does it not make him a CHICK either. People can have generally good personalities, demeanours, and beliefs, but can still do things which some people might find questionable, like if you found out that some upstanding pillar of the community was into BDSM; it doesn't take away from the good things they've done and the good person they are.

Just because someone on the Neutral or CHICK path might go to Quinn rather than stay with Maya doesn't necessarily make that a bad choice because you could say that a MC who is more like that may think it's best to give Maya some space and to let Derek look after her since he's her brother and is perhaps the better person to deal with this particular situation. Also, even if the MC is Neutral or CHICK, it doesn't mean they can't be curious of what Quinn wants nor does it mean they can't be like every other guy and very easily give in to sexy girls who want a piece of them. It also doesn't mean the MC wants a romantic relationship with Quinn either, but just that, if a Neutral or CHICK MC had a hot girl like Quinn start kissing them as she does in Ep 6, his status doesn't preclude him from being a regular horny dude who gets caught up in the moment. If people want to play him as 100% morally upstanding, fine, but being able to play him as someone who has some good morals but also thinks with his dick a lot of the time should also be possible.

I'm not so sure DPC will be so lenient ...

at the limit then it was the sex with Quinn that had to be "blocked" and not the whole scene

the problem with the affinity is that it is not constant in the game, you may have been Chick all the time until chapter 4/5 (taking the number from Quinn, going to the restaurant and taking drugs on the roof) having chosen to be just friends with J + M and then between Caleb, Tybalt and Tommy find you DIK for the big date with Quinn.

so I would not be looking for narrative coherence (because you can carry on an MC chick much more bastard than the DIK one), it is a choice to diversify the games, to create crossroads on the contents. okay, it's not a problem, but it's not a law written in stone, it could have gone differently without problems

That's another thing, she could have at least accepted his help and then it's the sex that becomes the difference. Maybe Quinn hops on a DIK MC but not a CHICK MC, or maybe the player gets a choice and are blocked depending on the M&J factor. For example, if you're CHICK and with M&J there's no option to accept, but if you're CHICK and turned down M&J then they can choose. Similarly, if you're with M&J but have DIK Affinity because it changed after that choice, you're also blocked from choosing it but not if you're not with M&J.

In any case, at least accepting his help would have been enough no matter what path you're on.

The first thing to realize is people are asking the wrong question. "How do I get to fuck Quinn in Ep6?". Wrong question. The fucking comes later. The question that should be asked is, "How do I get Quinn to trust my MC and open up to him, even just a little?" Because that's what this is about.

When the mc offers Quinn help, she's not thinking, "OK, do I wanna fuck this guy again?". She's thinking, "Do I wanna lower my guard to this guy?" Of course she doesn't consciously think those words. People who have built a barrier around themselves subconsciously push people away, either by withdrawing (KRJ, sorry guys, she's gonna be a lotta work) or in Quinn's case, an aggressive, spiteful exterior.

Of course it's just a computer program so we can look at the variables to see what makes up the logic, and if we take those few conditions as standalone states that have no bearing on the mc's personality, it can lead us to question the logic.

But it's not that simple. Not for someone like Quinn.

Quinn accepting the MC's help is her opening up and trusting someone. That's not something she does. Even Riona, her closest ally, is often treated as a subordinate. Sage, her HOT mother, she keeps in the dark half the time. Tommy, her "friend"? She doesn't even tell him that she's ditching the DIKs big end of Hell Week party for the prep party, even though Sage told her to tell him or Rusty.

So who would she let her guard down to, for them to help her? Who does the mc need to be for Quinn to lower that guard. He needs to be someone she likes, and someone she feels she can trust.

Who does she like? She likes DIKs. Which ones? Certainly not the beta DIKs which make up most of the fraternity. She likes the kinda DIKs that take charge, handle shit, basically an alpha.

Who can she trust? No one.

When the mc said those words:

"Come with me, let me have a closer look at it."​

She responded with:

"I don't need your help."​

Of course she did. It's Quinn. Already putting those defenses up.

But here's the kicker. It wasn't Quinn that made the next step, it was the MC.

The MC who isn't a DIK by nature, or who's all wrapped up with M&J, or who never fucked Quinn on the DIK roof, that guy, he pathetically responds with:

"Hey! Wait!"​

"Quinn..."​

As she turns and walks away.

But the true DIK, who knows this girl, and isn't caught up in some convoluted threesome with a bunch of high maintenance drama queens, that guy, he doesn't wait for Quinn to walk away, he responds with:

"Yeah, I get it. You're strong and independent."​

"Bravo! Do this for me."​

And Quinn drops her guard for a bit. And the rest is history.

So it's not about Quinn being omniscient and knowing whether the MC is in a relationship with M&J. It's about the mc being more assertive at that moment in time. And the MC is the sum of all his actions and experiences.

He may be a bit more assertive, sure, but to say that "the MC is the sum of all his actions and experiences" seems to contradict the notion that him being more assertive is the key factor here because if it's about the sum of his actions, then why can a DIK MC be rewarded for their offer help if they do very little with Quinn when a Neutral/CHICK MC is not rewarded even though they could have done everything? If his actions with Quinn are what build that trust you speak of, then his assertiveness in that moment is the least important factor in why she decides to accept his help.

 

[shazba]

I don't think I understand

I agree with your premise: the point is to gain Quinn's trust, sex is a consequence of it

DPC choose a series of conditions for Quinn to trust him, to me these conditions do not seem so absolute and objective, they are a choice.

moving the problem from conditions to MC's response does not change anything ... MC responds like this if it has certain flags ..

the game doesn't have this rigidity on affinity at all and more normally, a very Chick MC may very well have sex with Jade and show the video.

every now and then, however, affinity, or other conditions, suddenly become insuperable constraints. as players we have to accept it but we can also not consider it right

The point being, the MC needs to be a very specific character at the exact right time for Quinn to accept his help. He needs to be a certain person and act a certain way. He is the sum of all his actions up to that point, and based on who he is, he handles the situation differently, and based on how he handles the situation, Quinn responds accordingly.

And those actions that DPC has deemed a requirement for the mc to assert himself on Quinn, are:

• He isn't in a relationship with M&J (because that would be a different guy),
• he has already fucked Quinn for free (so he's more comfortable around her); and
• he's a DIK (so he has the kind of "do as I say" attitude).

"moving the problem from conditions to MC's response does not change anything"

That's actually huge. One the biggest arguments about Quinn not accepting the MC if he is in the M&J relationship is: How would she know? If the conditions are dictating the MC's behavior, rather than Quinn's response, any action the MC performed in the past (regardless of whether Quinn knows about it) could have been used as criteria for this branch.

Why isn't the game so exacting for every other branch? 'Cause not every branch warrants it. Some branches are more complicated than others. If you consider some of the other relationships:

• M&J: Individually they were easy to get involved with because both girls were hurting and the MC effortlessly made them feel good. Once the girls got together things got more complicated and criteria to stay in a relationship became more specific.
• Jill: She just needs Bella's approval. She's not moving fast anyway so it shouldn't be very hard to maintain that simple relationship. Now taking it to another level, that's a chore.
• Sage: She came on to the MC because he just happened to be there and she needed to feel desired. A very easy relationship to get in to because Sage needed it. MC just got lucky, could have been any guy that she asked to help her spy on Chad.
• Bella: This one is weird, others have said it too. She doesn't want a relationship. The MC keeps fucking pushing it, and slowly she's come around. Considering how hard it would have been to establish such a relationship in real life (a frigid middle-age woman who doesn't like a guy half her age eventually coming around and starting to have a sexual relationship with him while helping to set him up with another friend of hers), this should have been a lot harder to establish, instead it is easy to maintain the Bella relationship if you want. So this one I can't defend.
• Jade (since you mentioned her): She teaches Gender Studies and that's all we know. So she doesn't have access to many male students in her classes, she hates her husband and want to feel desired (kinda like Sages story) and the MC just happened to be at the right place at the right time. So it's an easy relationship if you make the time (i.e. do't go off with M&J instead).

Except for Bella, Quinn's relationship is way more complicated than the rest. She's got more baggage and she's more protective of herself. For such a complex character, she definitely should have been a main LI. Sage definitely doesn't fit the "bad girl" LI category. All of the LIs are simply just nice people (assuming Bella hasn't killed anyone). Quinn could have been the "bad girl LI".

He may be a bit more assertive, sure, but to say that "the MC is the sum of all his actions and experiences" seems to contradict the notion that him being more assertive is the key factor here because if it's about the sum of his actions, then why can a DIK MC be rewarded for their offer help if they do very little with Quinn when a Neutral/CHICK MC is not rewarded even though they could have done everything? If his actions with Quinn are what build that trust you speak of, then his assertiveness in that moment is the least important factor in why she decides to accept his help.

When you say a DIK MC who has very little to do with Quinn. Which experiences would you omit? You can't omit the sex on the roof with her, so right there we already have a significant bonding experience. Sure a Chick MC can do that too, but a Chick MC is not the same as a DIK MC, there's a personality difference. And that personality difference is part of the key to how the MC handles Quinn.

 

[travelman]

often she tells him how fun it is to provoke him because he always replies to her

Haven't tried DIK run yet, but I think it's made to be either way. Roof scene she can tease you and you can choose to not respond. She will tell you that this is why she likes you, because she can provoke him and there's no response. She also calls MC "fun pussy" which while I don't know, I quess she doesn't say that if you're DIK aff. Quinn seems to be written to like MC either way, at least thus far into 6 episodes, with only exception being library scene in ep6., but as mentioned before by shazba, it seems to play out that way because of way MC responds, not because of any "like" flags. Which tbh both can be viewed as good and bad approaches. I see both Holy Bacchus building up trust approach and shazba's assertiveness based on affinity argument as valid. Because she seems to be written to be ok with neutral/chick MC this whole time, it might seem jarring that she refuses help, but at the same time, she refuses help either way and it's the way MC responds that changes the outcome.
All the girls liking MC seems to be non-variable and linear thus far, they all want to jump on that dick, but it's way MC acts that changes outcomes. In some(Bella) it seems like actions build up mistrust/trust, with Quinn it seems that actions decide the outcomes, with Riona it's about "flags" and if you bought the restaurant(which as Holy Bacchus mentioned seems weird, because she seems to like chick MC if you show trust and then even help her with $$$$$), with Sage she seems to "I like annoying" even if you barely interact with her. Granted, I have to give it credit, it IS somewhat slightly written in a way where you can suspend your disbelief and see by the words they use in dialogues that it WOULD make sense, but at the same time it still feels a little schizophrenic, because of different treatment(thus far, we still don't know about how it will play out in later episodes).

 

[diegao]

Yeah that's the scene I was talking about the other day. That there is someone hanging around the house

Yeah, the first impression was that the lights outside were malfunctioning but no, you definitely see a shadow passing by.

What relieves me of this scene is that happens when the MC is alone and not with Bella!

 

[felicemastronzo]

The point being, the MC needs to be a very specific character at the exact right time for Quinn to accept his help. He needs to be a certain person and act a certain way. He is the sum of all his actions up to that point, and based on who he is, he handles the situation differently, and based on how he handles the situation, Quinn responds accordingly.

And those actions that DPC has deemed a requirement for the mc to assert himself on Quinn, are:

• He isn't in a relationship with M&J (because that would be a different guy),
• he has already fucked Quinn for free (so he's more comfortable around her); and
• he's a DIK (so he has the kind of "do as I say" attitude).

"moving the problem from conditions to MC's response does not change anything"

That's actually huge. One the biggest arguments about Quinn not accepting the MC if he is in the M&J relationship is: How would she know? If the conditions are dictating the MC's behavior, rather than Quinn's response, any action the MC performed in the past (regardless of whether Quinn knows about it) could have been used as criteria for this branch.

Why isn't the game so exacting for every other branch? 'Cause not every branch warrants it. Some branches are more complicated than others. If you consider some of the other relationships:

• M&J: Individually they were easy to get involved with because both girls were hurting and the MC effortlessly made them feel good. Once the girls got together things got more complicated and criteria to stay in a relationship became more specific.
• Jill: She just needs Bella's approval. She's not moving fast anyway so it shouldn't be very hard to maintain that simple relationship. Now taking it to another level, that's a chore.
• Sage: She came on to the MC because he just happened to be there and she needed to feel desired. A very easy relationship to get in to because Sage needed it. MC just got lucky, could have been any guy that she asked to help her spy on Chad.
• Bella: This one is weird, others have said it too. She doesn't want a relationship. The MC keeps fucking pushing it, and slowly she's come around. Considering how hard it would have been to establish such a relationship in real life (a frigid middle-age woman who doesn't like a guy half her age eventually coming around and starting to have a sexual relationship with him while helping to set him up with another friend of hers), this should have been a lot harder to establish, instead it is easy to maintain the Bella relationship if you want. So this one I can't defend.
• Jade (since you mentioned her): She teaches Gender Studies and that's all we know. So she doesn't have access to many male students in her classes, she hates her husband and want to feel desired (kinda like Sages story) and the MC just happened to be at the right place at the right time. So it's an easy relationship if you make the time (i.e. do't go off with M&J instead).

Except for Bella, Quinn's relationship is way more complicated than the rest. She's got more baggage and she's more protective of herself. For such a complex character, she definitely should have been a main LI. Sage definitely doesn't fit the "bad girl" LI category. All of the LIs are simply just nice people (assuming Bella hasn't killed anyone).

I do not agree.

I'm fine that in your opinion these are the conditions that bring MC closer to Quinn (even if the question of trust is quite forced, in the end Quinn doesn't reveal anything significant to MC, and absolutely not being seen by the HOTs covered in blood is better you too)

but I don't see any absolute and objective truth in it. it was not the only one of possible worlds

Does being with Maya and Josy make MC different? true, but it goes for any other choice, even having beaten Troy or not makes him a different person, even being in a romantic relationship with a particular girl like Jill makes him a different person. every choice makes us who we are.

then I open a brief digression: Mc can be in the trouple treating Maya very badly, worse than Quinn, with a strongly negative RP. which should make him Quinn's best friend. end of digression

then I don't think it opens the way to a real relationship with Quinn (nor with Jade or Cathe), they are just variations on the theme

 

[Gladheim]

Yeah, the first impression was that the lights outside were malfunctioning but no, you definitely see a shadow passing by.

What relieves me of this scene is that happens when the MC is alone and not with Bella!

I still think that with Bella the window is covered ... although some have said no. He would have to see that scene again to prove it.

 

[WhamBamKam]

Late to the discussion by a couple pages but for me the best non lewd scenes/moments are

1.Camilla trying to cheer up Mona during class
2.Anthony dancing
3. Bella lip bite
4. Tybalt slap slo-mo

 

[shazba]

I do not agree.

I'm fine that in your opinion these are the conditions that bring MC closer to Quinn (even if the question of trust is quite forced, in the end Quinn doesn't reveal anything significant to MC, and absolutely not being seen by the HOTs covered in blood is better you too)

but I don't see any absolute and objective truth in it. it was not the only one of possible worlds

Does being with Maya and Josy make MC different? true, but it goes for any other choice, even having beaten Troy or not makes him a different person, even being in a romantic relationship with a particular girl like Jill makes him a different person. every choice makes us who we are.

then I open a brief digression: Mc can be in the trouple treating Maya very badly, worse than Quinn, with a strongly negative RP. which should make him Quinn's best friend. end of digression

then I don't think it opens the way to a real relationship with Quinn (nor with Jade or Cathe), they are just variations on the theme

Yeah I agree there could have been heaps of conditions used all over the place to determine the MC's personality (sex with all the HOTs, being turned down by M&J or being the one that turns them down, cumming on Heather in the hot tub and so on). And definitely, a lot of those experiences would have had an effect on him.

But being in a throuple, that shit is next level, even if the game doesn't actually give you much time to realize how awesome (and potentially complicated) such a relationship would be. At the same time, you're in a relationship with Maya, a girl that Quinn has been taunting and fucking with since the game began. That would influence the MC's attitude towards Quinn too.

You could argue every single variable's use, or lack of use in each branch, but I think people just don't want to accept some things 'cause it doesn't turn out they way they like.

Just change the code, my game is totally butchered, mainly for laughs though.

 

[travelman]

Just change the code, my game is totally butchered, mainly for laughs though.

You should release you "alternative MC dialogue" mod

 

[shazba]

Yeah, the first impression was that the lights outside were malfunctioning but no, you definitely see a shadow passing by.

What relieves me of this scene is that happens when the MC is alone and not with Bella!

I still think that with Bella the window is covered ... although some have said no. He would have to see that scene again to prove it.

When the MC is getting a kneeling BJ from Bella, it feels like the camera is lingering from outside. It moves from left to right and feels creepy. I always feel like someone's watching whenever movies give this perspective. Not sure if it was just done for effect in the game or there was a peeping tom:

Spoiler: I can see yooou!

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You should release you "alternative MC dialogue" mod

I take the comments about DPC here with a grain of salt, but given what I've heard, I'm a little worried if I released a doctored version of his entire game he might sue my ass!

 

[felicemastronzo]

Yeah I agree there could have been heaps of conditions used all over the place to determine the MC's personality (sex with all the HOTs, being turned down by M&J or being the one that turns them down, cumming on Heather in the hot tub and so on). And definitely, a lot of those experiences would have had an effect on him.

But being in a throuple, that shit is next level, even if the game doesn't actually give you much time to realize how awesome (and potentially complicated) such a relationship would be. At the same time, you're in a relationship with Maya, a girl that Quinn has been taunting and fucking with since the game began. That would influence the MC's attitude towards Quinn too.

You could argue every single variable's use, or lack of use in each branch, but I think people just don't want to accept some things 'cause it doesn't turn out they way they like.

Just change the code, my game is totally butchered, mainly for laughs though.

Is it possible that only the relationship with M + J is so binding?
an open, non-public relationship.

I understood that it is a "particular" and ambitious relationship, but that it has very few direct impacts (in a week and three chapters three real interactions as trouples: the united bed, the picnic and the final test of the scavenger hunt) and many indirect ones

any other relationship creates no impediment, M + J blocks Cathe and Quinn directly and Jade indirectly

playing with fire (doubly) by dating both Jill and Bella is not a problem

and this for me does not have a logical motivation, but a narrative one, M + J are the canon way, if you are on that road, too many distractions are not allowed, not only you must be worthy of it but you are prevented from being too unworthy of it

 

[Hahn1900]

i have to say, i hate shortcuts... what the hack does DPC mean?

 

[moskyx]

Maya: MC... this is my... girlfriend... Josy
MC: Girlfriend?
Josy: Maya?
Maya: Don't worry... this is MC. We're... close
Josy: ...

MC: ... *flashbacks of two threesomes he had earlier that day, sex with Josy and fingering Maya*
MC: You know, I wouldn't mind getting closer to both of you *removes shirt*
Josy: MC what the fuck are you doing?
MC: What? You haven't seen each other in a long time so you probably want to fuck each other's brains out. I'd love to join but I don't mind just watching if you're shy

*Show the Sage/Derek/Bella choice screen*

*orange dialogue doesn't actually exist in the game

It's fun and all but, honestly, it SHOULD be implemented in game just like that. I'm not even changing a comma. Then add some variations during next day's scenes where MC talks about the issue and, in a serious way without all the overacted drama, reflects about whether he could trust those girls who lied and hide some important bits of info to him, and maybe fantasize about the (impossible, as we now know) trouple, and the game would flow way better for those on that situation. We'll be rejected anyway but at least our MC would have acted more in line with how we tailored him so far

 

[shazba]

i have to say, i hate shortcuts... what the hack does DPC mean?

DPC stands for Dr PinkCake. The developer of this game.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

When you say a DIK MC who has very little to do with Quinn. Which experiences would you omit? You can't omit the sex on the roof with her, so right there we already have a significant bonding experience. Sure a Chick MC can do that too, but a Chick MC is not the same as a DIK MC, there's a personality difference. And that personality difference is part of the key to how the MC handles Quinn.

Every moment with Quinn, I feel, can build up her relationship with the MC in different ways, but whichever way you go, the game has seemingly made it seem as though she likes him on any path. travelman actually makes a good point about how she seems to enjoy a MC who doesn't give in to her provocations, resists her at every turn, and plays hard-to-get just as much as she enjoys a MC who is a bit more bold, daring, and confident at times. Since she seems to like both qualities, this seems to contradict the notion that one path has a personality she likes more than the other.

I've tended to put a lot of stock in the idea that doing things with Quinn builds the relationship with her, but looking at it from the perspective that travelman presents it would seem that doing things isn't perhaps as important as first thought. However, this just makes this moment in Ep 6 even more jarring because a DIK MC could just do those 2 required things and be seen as playing hard-to-get and Quinn likes that, whereas a CHICK MC can do everything with her and be seen as more bold and daring which Quinn also likes, and vice-versa. So if she likes both, then what really makes the difference? If it's just him being more assertive with her when she refuses his help, well then that's very weak to have everything be undone by a simple line of dialogue.

At the very least, as I've said, she could have accepted his help and then the sex was determined by Affinity, relationship status, and the like, and on the non-sex path you'd get that double-take look she gives when she leaves where it looked like she wanted to say something as it would show she appreciated the gesture but couldn't say it.

 

[felicemastronzo]

It's fun and all but, honestly, it SHOULD be implemented in game just like that. I'm not even changing a comma. Then add some variations during next day's scenes where MC talks about the issue and, in a serious way without all the overacted drama, reflects about whether he could trust those girls who lied and hide some important bits of info to him, and maybe fantasize about the (impossible, as we now know) trouple, and the game would flow way better for those on that situation. We'll be rejected anyway but at least our MC would have acted more in line with how we tailored him so far

it would have been the perfect dialogue for the MC DIK who had just returned from the threesome

crabsinthekitchen knows best

 

[Lostanddamned]

I still think that with Bella the window is covered ... although some have said no. He would have to see that scene again to prove it.

But the lights also flash when MC is with Bella in the library in chapter 6 (although I might be misremembering) and that angle from outside when

Spoiler

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make me think that there was someone outside spying on them and it might be used as a blackmail against them later on.