VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[felicemastronzo]

Hey Moskyx, I understand what you are saying but I disagree with the idea of the BAD characters being judged too harshly in the context of the game and its nature. The game's purpose isn't to judge and take a moral high ground per se: it already does highlight relatively serious issues [cheating, homophobia, sexism, rich-poor divide... and many others] and does so in often touching and meaningful ways, but the game is here to entertain rather than educate. There are many different types of people in the world, and equally depicted in this game, and we cannot expect everyone to follow the same strict code of ethics that you seemingly wish to impose on the future story. "It is a problem" if you perceive it at such. If others view [real] life differently, then who are we to judge?

if we talk about prostitution (it is not known if voluntary, but it would not seem so) and drugs there is not much subjective

then, in a porn game, some compromise with one's morality must be done, for example in half of the games with incest there is a rape ... but this does not make rape a subjective or acceptable matter

 

[xsssssssss]

if we talk about prostitution (it is not known if voluntary, but it would not seem so) and drugs there is not much subjective

then, in a porn game, some compromise with one's morality must be done, for example in half of the games with incest there is a rape ... but this does not make rape a subjective or acceptable matter

Of course there’s subjectivity about opinions on validity of prostitution and use of drugs.
The existing prostitutes all seem to be willing participants. If the new ones end up being forced that’s a different matter.

 

[moskyx]

Hey Moskyx, I understand what you are saying but I disagree with the idea of the BAD characters being judged too harshly in the context of the game and its nature. The game's purpose isn't to judge and take a moral high ground per se: it already does highlight relatively serious issues [cheating, homophobia, sexism, rich-poor divide... and many others] and does so in often touching and meaningful ways, but the game is here to entertain rather than educate. There are many different types of people in the world, and equally depicted in this game, and we cannot expect everyone to follow the same strict code of ethics that you seemingly wish to impose on the future story. "It is a problem" if you perceive it at such. If others view [real] life differently, then who are we to judge?

I'm not judging, but it doesn't matter if they don't see any problems. When someone plays with drugs and prostitution, chances in real life are that they might end burned some way or another. Very few people are able to get away with it unharmed. So I expect to see some serious consequences. There's no need to be moralists about it, just realistics. This is not a parody nor a light-hearted game, it aims for some level of realism so those kind of problems are to be expected and have been already hinted. Now, if you don't think a prostitution scheme with college girls might become a problem for the ones involved, then it's obvious we don't see real life in the same way. I surely expect DPC shows us some serious things related to that, but yeah, that's only my expectation, I don't want to impose my views (nor could I, btw).
Also, take Narcos or any other 'fictional' work about crime. It's pure entertainment, I don't think they are trying to educate and you might even feel attracted to the 'dark side way of life', but sure you can see where that code of ethics of theirs leads them. Life is the way it is, you can take it as you want but in the end some choices can potentially bring you more (and more serious) problems than others. It has nothing to do with trying to moralize, just showing probable consequences.

 

[moskyx]

Of course there’s subjectivity about opinions on validity of prostitution and use of drugs.
The existing prostitutes all seem to be willing participants. If the new ones end up being forced that’s a different matter.

Even if you are doing that work voluntarily, problems might arise. There are tons of things that could go wrong, even accidentally. Now it's just up to DPC if he wants to explore that dark path or not

 

[felicemastronzo]

Of course there’s subjectivity about opinions on validity of prostitution and use of drugs.
The existing prostitutes all seem to be willing participants. If the new ones end up being forced that’s a different matter.

Mona (not sure of the name) wants to get out and it doesn't seem so easy. Camilla is the only one who admits to doing it voluntarily, but it matters up to a certain point

 

[xsssssssss]

Mona (not sure of the name) wants to get out and it doesn't seem so easy. Camilla is the only one who admits to doing it voluntarily, but it matters up to a certain point

Sarah/melanie/camilla/riona all seem ok with it and the benefit it likely provides.
We don't know that Mona wants out or was forced or what even happened. She may have agreed voluntarily and then backed out at the last minute. She may have agreed but not liked Stephen's behaviour. The whole thing could be a red herring and have no relation to prostitution.

 

[Deleted member 2739658]

That's not a plot hole, that's bad writing. DPC is presenting us an option (tell her EVERYTHING what you know) but then the dialog doesn't match the option given because the natural outcome of it would ruin his planned plot. So the problem lies in the way he presents that option and that's completely a writing issue which results in me hating and feeling disconnected from my MC who's not responding the way I've chosen for him to response. And this is just one of the several times this happens (probably the most blatant one, though, but all of them keep adding up to the point I just can't take my MC seriously, and all the intended drama becomes an awkward comedy).

Regarding Sage, I already said that MC might think she knows it so there's no point on telling her. That's a logical assumption I would understand. From a playing perspective, would it be fair and natural to have an option to tell her anyway? Sure, but here DPC never gives us that option so we just go with the flow and don't give it too much thought. So in terms of immersion this doesn't effect me as much as Maya's convo: I'm never allowed to tell Sage and, even if I think that option should be there, I can see a reason why my MC wouldn't feel the need to tell her. And this helps DPC to keep the story going to the conflict point he's planned. That's OK. But that Maya scene is terrible for players who choose to tell her. Even if in the future this mild warning helps Maya to step out of problems, what we were thinking was to avoid those problems completely by telling her now all the truth behind Quinn's offer. And we were thinking that only because DPC used the word EVERYTHING wrote "tell her what you know". He could have used other words, he could have made Maya totally dismiss our warning. Instead, he chose to make our MC absolutely uncapable of doing what the player was induced to think he would do.

--
Edited for precission thanks to crabsinthekitchen

There are alot of problems with the story in this game. I agree with you about it feeling unnatural that the MC wouldn't explicitly tell Maya about what Quinn was doing. The whole dialogue feels very contrived. One of the problems that I've had with it is that the characters seem to be under the impression that the only obstacle to getting the scholarship is passing the Scavenger Hunt. It's blatantly obvious that Maya will be required to prostitute herself for the scholarship. Or, that Quinn could assign Maya several graphic sexual task that the other pledges didn't receive. If you don't warn Maya about Quinn, or ask her to approach Sage, it's stated in the dialogue that she's in a three person team with Camila and Mona. Are they assigned the same sexual task? After the sex in the bathroom scene with the MC it doesn't appear so, he actually ask the girls if that was one of their task. That's completely implausible.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Umm, Stephen explicitly says they WILL be watching the tri-alphas, and Chad specifically warns Dawe that the counselors might learn about other things if they watch closely.

Spoiler: Pretty Much Exactly That

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

I know Holy Bacchus can get wrapped up in his theories sometimes, but in this case I have to agree the evidence is pretty conclusive. We know Quinn had a talk with Dawe about getting money that didn't go well. We know she had been selling drugs to the jocks, and Dawe in particular, and they recently stopped buying. We know Chad had warned Dawe about some activity they didn't want the school to find out about. And we saw Dawe meet with Quinn in the Episode 3 wrap-up monologue.

Now it's true that we can't conclusively rule out that there was another unshown meeting where those things were discussed. But with all the things we do know, and with a complete absence of any evidence to contradict it, I see no reason not to take the evidence as presented: when they met, Dawe told Quinn that he didn't want to buy PEDs from her anymore due to the increased risk of being caught.

Now it's possible other topics were discussed during that meeting as well. So if you're trying to say, for example, Dawe could still have asked Quinn to frame the DIK, I agree that is possible (though it seems unlikely). Beyond that, though, I don't see much to argue about here.

Thank you.

As Holy Bacchus said, it’s not about destroying the DIKs. IMO it’s probably about feeding her habit. The fate of the DIKs are at best and afterthought and at worst ‘collateral’ damage. If she is an addict, then her main concern would be her next fix.

When have we seen her mismanage her prostitution business? (Other than being abusive to the girls?). Business seems to be booming, so much so she’s looking to add as many as 6 extra girls to the ranks. Meanwhile we know she using her own drugs and it’s heavily implied at times that she is high outside of a party situation (fly on face).

That all said the one possible out is that her dealer is making unreasonable demands on sales quotas. But between selling the sugar pills to the Jocks and the 2k deal Rich, it’s hard to see how they are coming up so short.

I don't think Quinn would think of it in such callous terms as "collateral damage", because that implies she'd be OK with doing something for herself even it meant seeing serious harm come to the DIKs which I don't believe is the case.

I stand by the view that Quinn is not a bad person, she simply makes bad choices, and you can see several instances in which she seems to understand the seriousness of those choices, like in ep 3 during the discussion with Riona and in ep 5 during the discussion with Tommy. Particularly with Tommy, his reaction wounds her because she didn't take the whole thing seriously and thought she could easily smooth things over, just like how she thought she'd get a big pay day out of the Preps, but she underestimated both of these things and you can see how it affects her.

I also don't believe she is an addict to the drugs, at least not to a self-destructive extent. If she's an addict to anything, it's to the power she feels she has over others. We also don't really know if the drug portion of her operation is what's really causing the most problems because in ep 3, her and Riona are talking about the money that the girls bring in and about how Melanie and Sarah are pulling in a lot from that but they're somehow still short, which is why, if you bought both Riona and Camila, Quinn suggests calling the MC for the threesome. So the prostitution stuff is also being mismanaged, not just the drugs.

Quinn's naive and arrogant, but she's not evil and callous. She plays a tough girl but isn't that tough deep down and I think we might see a bit of that when she goes to see her dealers in ep 6.

 

[Deleted member 2739658]

Mona (not sure of the name) wants to get out and it doesn't seem so easy. Camilla is the only one who admits to doing it voluntarily, but it matters up to a certain point

I've, unfortunately, had lot's of IRL experience with the world of prostitution through my work. Nobody grows up wanting to be a prostitute. The vast majority of girl's, and boys, who enter into prostitution are psychologically manipulated into it by pimps. Maya does actually meet the criteria. First there's the enticement, she needs the scholarship. She's also an introvert, alienated from her family and friends. This and some other factors, like the use of physical and sexual abuse, make her a fairly easy target. We don't know enough about Camila and Mona, but Rionna also seems to share many of the traits.

The one glaring point is that Josy states that she's going for the scholarship too, and that makes no sense at all. Josy's characters main focus is her love for her Father, and in the beginning of the game we learn that she's been living in fear that she's lost that love through her parents divorce and the introduction of Monica and Tommy into her family. Josy is also outgoing, forming a new friendship with Jill on her first day of classes as just one example, so she's not emotionally isolated enough to be vulnerable. She would also never risk being diminished in her Father's eyes, especially after the reconciliation scene in ep5.

 

[Deleted member 2739658]

Extortion is possible though I don’t recall an specific hints that it might be the case. Whereas we know Quinn is taking an injectable drug. Only illicit injectable drugs I know of are pretty addictive. People with addictions do crazy things.



As Holy Bacchus said, it’s not about destroying the DIKs. IMO it’s probably about feeding her habit. The fate of the DIKs are at best and afterthought and at worst ‘collateral’ damage. If she is an addict, then her main concern would be her next fix.

When have we seen her mismanage her prostitution business? (Other than being abusive to the girls?). Business seems to be booming, so much so she’s looking to add as many as 6 extra girls to the ranks. Meanwhile we know she using her own drugs and it’s heavily implied at times that she is high outside of a party situation (fly on face).

That all said the one possible out is that her dealer is making unreasonable demands on sales quotas. But between selling the sugar pills to the Jocks and the 2k deal Rich, it’s hard to see how they are coming up so short.




Actually respect Tommy in this scene. He’s mad, but he here’s her out, he doesn’t touch her and in the end he tells her to go fuck herself. (in his own words).

One other thing I note is he doesn’t put his hands on her. One of the things I dislike in episode one and two is when the MC gets angry with Quinn he grabs her. I don’t think the is supposed to be as abusive as it looks but in neither instance is their any justification for it

Quinn and Riona are constantly arguing about Quinn's poor decisions regarding the prostitution business.

 

[felicemastronzo]

I've, unfortunately, had lot's of IRL experience with the world of prostitution through my work. Nobody grows up wanting to be a prostitute. The vast majority of girl's, and boys, who enter into prostitution are psychologically manipulated into it by pimps. Maya does actually meet the criteria. First there's the enticement, she needs the scholarship. She's also an introvert, alienated from her family and friends. This and some other factors, like the use of physical and sexual abuse, make her a fairly easy target. We don't know enough about Camila and Mona, but Rionna also seems to share many of the traits.

The one glaring point is that Josy states that she's going for the scholarship too, and that makes no sense at all. Josy's characters main focus is her love for her Father, and in the beginning of the game we learn that she's been living in fear that she's lost that love through her parents divorce and the introduction of Monica and Tommy into her family. Josy is also outgoing, forming a new friendship with Jill on her first day of classes as just one example, so she's not emotionally isolated enough to be vulnerable. She would also never risk being diminished in her Father's eyes, especially after the reconciliation scene in ep5.

I'm perfectly agree with you.

it is really difficult to judge the voluntariness of such behavior, and that the protagonists say they are counts up to a certain point.

Riona does not give the idea of being an happy girl and satisfied with the position in which she is

Maya was risking a lot, but I think now with Josy and possibly MC to watch over she should be fine

 

[Deleted member 2739658]

Well, if that is the case it should make Sage very much less likeable to such MCs who do think that Quinn is 'evil'. If MC does not condone Quinn aking advantage of gullible, poor, young girls for her prostitution ring, he shouldn't condone Sage turning a blind eye to it either. Especially, since she has the power to stop it.

I really hope that Sage is completely in the dark regarding this.

I'm sure she is. Look at the HOT pool party scene. After Quinn lays out what is expected to earn the scholarship (", , ,loose hips, earn tips") she tell's Maya to "Zip it" as soon as Sage enters the room. I also think that the reason she overhears Maya asking Sage to switch Mothers is that she's watching Maya to make sure that she doesn't talk.

 

[Deleted member 2739658]

I'm perfectly agree with you.

it is really difficult to judge the voluntariness of such behavior, and that the protagonists say they are counts up to a certain point.

Riona does not give the idea of being an happy girl and satisfied with the position in which she is

Maya was risking a lot, but I think now with Josy and possibly MC to watch over she should be fine

I think that Maya may already be turning tricks. On the morning after Josy arrives Quinn post a cluck on Rooster. It's a picture of her and Maya that looks like a hostage photo, really creepy. The cluck announces that Maya will be doing a special Scavenger Hunt event. If you go to the comments several of the HOTs are posting encouragement for Maya, but it's only the HOTs involved in the prostitution ring. Also, near the end of ep5 we get to see Maya's scavenger Hunt todo list. There's one entry crossed off that's just $100 with no explanation.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

The one glaring point is that Josy states that she's going for the scholarship too, and that makes no sense at all. Josy's characters main focus is her love for her Father, and in the beginning of the game we learn that she's been living in fear that she's lost that love through her parents divorce and the introduction of Monica and Tommy into her family. Josy is also outgoing, forming a new friendship with Jill on her first day of classes as just one example, so she's not emotionally isolated enough to be vulnerable. She would also never risk being diminished in her Father's eyes, especially after the reconciliation scene in ep5.

I think Josy's main motivation for wanting to join the HOTs and have them pay her tuition is so she doesn't have to use her Dad's money.

She states in ep 4 that she still hopes to be able to get the money from her Dad but wants to get the free tuition even if/when she gets it, and she'd be doing it "for Maya". The reason being, as far as I can see, is that if the HOTs offer were to be genuine, then Josy can stash her Dad's money away as a nest egg for when she finishes college in order to use it to start a new life elsewhere, free from debt. This benefits Maya because Josy is likely believing that they'll still be together and this would therefore help her (Maya) to escape her Dad more easily because they'd have the money to move far away from him after college.

 

[Deleted member 2739658]

I think Josy's main motivation for wanting to join the HOTs and have them pay her tuition is so she doesn't have to use her Dad's money.

She states in ep 4 that she still hopes to be able to get the money from her Dad but wants to get the free tuition even if/when she gets it, and she'd be doing it "for Maya". The reason being, as far as I can see, is that if the HOTs offer were to be genuine, then Josy can stash her Dad's money away as a nest egg for when she finishes college in order to use it to start a new life elsewhere, free from debt. This benefits Maya because Josy is likely believing that they'll still be together and this would therefore help her (Maya) to escape her Dad more easily because they'd have the money to move far away from him after college.

No, as I pointed out there's no way that Josy would risk being a whore in her Father's eye's. It may still be written that way but it will be another instance of where DPC has created a character and then made them behave in a way that's diametrically opposed to the character that he's created.

 

[Deleted member 2739658]

I think Josy's main motivation for wanting to join the HOTs and have them pay her tuition is so she doesn't have to use her Dad's money.

She states in ep 4 that she still hopes to be able to get the money from her Dad but wants to get the free tuition even if/when she gets it, and she'd be doing it "for Maya". The reason being, as far as I can see, is that if the HOTs offer were to be genuine, then Josy can stash her Dad's money away as a nest egg for when she finishes college in order to use it to start a new life elsewhere, free from debt. This benefits Maya because Josy is likely believing that they'll still be together and this would therefore help her (Maya) to escape her Dad more easily because they'd have the money to move far away from him after college.

Also, one of the things that DPC has left manifestly unclear is that becoming a HOT does not earn the scholarship, working as a prostitute does.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

No, as I pointed out there's no way that Josy would risk being a whore in her Father's eye's. It may still be written that way but it will be another instance of where DPC has created a character and then made them behave in a way that's diametrically opposed to the character that he's created.

Josy doesn't know what's involved in this "free tuition" offer and neither does Maya. As soon as they find out, they won't want to do it, but right now Josy is not willingly going to "be a whore" because she doesn't know that that is what getting the "free tuition" entails.

So, right now, given that she's looking at this from an idealistic standpoint, her view is likely as I have stated; that by not having to use her Dad's money she can save it for later use in helping Maya to get away from her Dad after graduation.

Also, one of the things that DPC has left manifestly unclear is that becoming a HOT does not earn the scholarship, working as a prostitute does.

But that's the point. Josy and Maya probably think they just have to do some charity work, or get jobs, or pull their weight in some way in order to earn the tuition, but there's no way in hell they would ever suspect it involves selling their bodies and they'll both be opposed to it when the time comes.

 

[Cr4nkJunky]

Is this on a DIK route or something? I didn't get that in my run, might be funny to see.

You just have to wear the dildo helmet first, then you'll get this scene instead of your hand between her tights.

 

[ename144]

I think that Maya may already be turning tricks. On the morning after Josy arrives Quinn post a cluck on Rooster. It's a picture of her and Maya that looks like a hostage photo, really creepy. The cluck announces that Maya will be doing a special Scavenger Hunt event. If you go to the comments several of the HOTs are posting encouragement for Maya, but it's only the HOTs involved in the prostitution ring. Also, near the end of ep5 we get to see Maya's scavenger Hunt todo list. There's one entry crossed off that's just $100 with no explanation.

I took that to mean Maya had to give Quinn $100. The characters already say the list feels more like a shopping list and speculate Quinn is using some of those things herself. Given her money problems, demanding a large but manageable bunch of cash seems likely.

Whereas Maya turning tricks at this point seems highly unlikely. Given how deeply bothered she was by the sexual items we know are on the list in Episode 3, it's hard to see her having done more than that already without any comment.

 

[Darkdevil66]

I'm not judging, but it doesn't matter if they don't see any problems. When someone plays with drugs and prostitution, chances in real life are that they might end burned some way or another. Very few people are able to get away with it unharmed. So I expect to see some serious consequences. There's no need to be moralists about it, just realistics. This is not a parody nor a light-hearted game, it aims for some level of realism

Is it ? Keep in mind this game is above all a porn game. I know some people are more interested in characters and story and there's nothing wrong with that, but one of the main goal is still to provide a lot of sex scenes. Quinn's restaurant is big a part of it. Porn doesn't usually expose seriously dark and gritty's aspects of prostitution's world ( In hentai prostitution, rape, drugs and mind breaking are even tags some fans actually enjoy, but that's another debate. Man, there's even a Weinstein based game here ). The way the MC handle the whole prostitution thing isn't realistic from the start.

Honestly speaking, the Pink rose is more a brothel than a strip club at this point. The ladies have sex with VIP customers. There are clearly kind of hookers but neither players or characters have issues with it. Because none of them seem depressed, defenseless or forced to perform. The MC even started a sexting relationship with a hooker mom. Same thing for Quinn's restaurant. All interactions with the MC are portrayed as completely consensual. Camila enjoyed it so much she offered him anal freely, Sarah admitted being sexually aroused, Riona was the one suggesting the threesome because she likes him much more than others customers. All of them would have fucked him anyway. They actually did later. Even Quinn has an obvious crush for him and fucked him freely. Assman is so attractive that he doesn't have to pay anymore and hookers like it.

That's a poor way to represent relations between hookers and customers. But the point is, DPCK has never intended to be realistic about it. Yeah there will be issues with Mona and Burke. But Burke is portrayed as an unsympathetic and pathetic cheater lustful for younger women. The Mc on the other hand is too gifted to be realistic in any way. So does his relation to women.