Fair enough.
Personally, I think Quinn craves feeling in control of the situation at all times. She pays lip service to people in positions of nominal authority, but she won't let them interrupt her agenda and she clearly considers her own judgement superior. Even the people Quinn seems to like (such as Riona, Tommy, or the right sort of MC) are treated more like children than peers. Basically, she's an extreme narcissist.
To me, Quinn's reluctance to kiss is one of the less interesting manifestations of this phenomenon. It's a bit cliche to say love is a weakness, but I think that's how Quinn sees it: a boyfriend is someone who might cause her to do something against her own interest, whereas a casual boy toy is harmless (or even a symbol of her prowess). So Quinn always makes it clear that anyone she's fooling around with is the latter.
Quinn's stubborn insistence on her own rectitude is the more interesting aspect of her character, IMHO. Consider the scene where Tommy visits her at the end of Episode 7. He wants her to apologize for ditching the DIKs at the Hell Week party and she refuses. Why? It would mollify him so he'd be far easier to control going forward, and we know Quinn has no trouble lying to people's face. So why stonewall Tommy like that?
The simple answer is that she thinks admitting to a mistake would be a sign of weakness so she must insist she was right - even to the point of absurdity. Perhaps she's even begun to believe the hype herself and genuinely thinks she's infallible. Either way, apologizing would undermine her reputation and thus cannot happen.
But I think there's more to it than that; I think Quinn is terrified of what it would mean NOT to be in control of the situation. Back in Episode 2 Josy explained she'd tied up so much of her hopes and dreams into getting into B&R that is was devastating when it looked like she was rejected. I think something similar has happened with Quinn.
I think the way a young Quinn dealt with growing up in a drug den was promising herself that she wouldn't be one of the "losers." She wouldn't be one of the sheep who live boring lives, or one the 'pigs' enforcing that life. She wouldn't be one of the burnouts drugging themselves into oblivion. She wouldn't be one of the expendable small fry that come and go without anyone noticing. Quinn told herself she was going to be to be one of the movers and shakers, a real criminal mastermind.
That's why she reacted so badly when Riona suggested scaling back. That's why she shows no interest in a CHICK MC. And that's why she can't just admit she shouldn't have ditched the DIKs. The problem isn't admitting she made
a mistake, it's admitting that
her entire criminal empire is a bust and she has no idea how to fix it. Quinn is just psychologically incapable of handling that truth at the moment.
That's how I see it, anyway. Your mileage clearly varies.
We have different perspectives but that's what makes the discussion interesting so I appreciate the effort you take to explain your thought process
I think it's pretty fair to say that you and I agree on most material things about Quinn, i.e. the things she does, the obvious mistakes she makes and missteps she takes, but we have some key differences on our views of her motivations for those actions. The biggest disagreement I have with what you laid out so succinctly is Quinn's motivation for entering the drug business. Your view is that a younger Quinn, having grown up in the apparent abusive environment she did, at some point resolved to basically become queen bitch of shit mountain. I've seen this expressed a few times by a few different people, but I have to fundamentally disagree with that take. I think the game itself reveals that Quinn is not maneuvering herself to become a mover and shaker, or some kind of criminal mastermind, rather it seems to clear me that Quinn is trying to stay as far removed from that world as she can. That might seem like a ridiculous assertion, but let me provide evidence for this.
I've said before in the past that if Quinn was to have a real path, become an actual love interest, that the rain scene would be the very first scene on her path. It's an incredibly dense and interesting scene, and I've watched and analyzed it more than any other in the game, and for more time than I'd care to admit
In case it's been a while since you've seen it, and for the benefit of those who are reading this and haven't, let me set the stage briefly. Quinn goes to meet an old associate of her dad's, Buddy, to make a money drop and order a resupply of the drugs she peddles. When she arrives to the meeting spot, the apartment-slash-drug den that she grew up in, she bumps into an addled junkie that is probably her mom but who doesn't recognize her, despite the makeup on her face mimicking the tattoo that was on her dad's face. The following conversation ensues between Quinn and Buddy:
Quinn and Buddy said:
Quinn: "I'm here."
Buddy: "... What are you wearing? Are you trying to look suspicious?
Quinn: "It's raining."
Buddy: "Then get an umbrella. So? Go ahead. Present."
Quinn: Hands over the bag. "It's all in there."
Buddy: "I know it is. You're not dumb enough to show up with less. Wait here."
Quinn: While waiting, Quinn looks around the place where she grew up and traces her finger over markings on the wall showing her growth as a kid. Her expression is stoic, but might be a little wistful or nostalgic too.
Buddy: Buddy returns. "Did you say hello to her?" (Referring to the junkie woman Quinn passed on the way in)
Quinn: "She doesn't recognize me anymore."
Buddy: "Can't say I'm surprised. She comes and goes and I try to take care of her... but she has her cravings. I figured she would recognize you..." Buddy pauses and points to his face where Quinn's makeup has her dad's tattoo. "...you know.
Quinn: "It's not for her."
Buddy: "No, I know. It's for him. You always were daddy's girl." Buddy hands over a bag. "Here's your cut. It's a little bit less than usual, but I'm sure you understand why."
Quinn: "Come on. Don't do that..."
Buddy: "You know the rules. I treat everyone the same way. So... Wanna tell me about those problems of yours?"
Quinn: "It doesn't matter. I won't happen again."
Buddy: "Vinny doesn't have these problems."
Quinn: "Well, Vinny doesn't deal to the same crowd I do."
Buddy: "You have no clue how he operates. If you did, he wouldn't beat you in volume. So? The same as usual this time?"
Quinn: "Yeah...and..." Quinn pauses and looks away. "...add some coke."
Buddy: "Coke? You?"
Quinn: Still looking away. "Can you?"
Buddy: "No problem on my end. I'll tell Mick to add it to the drop-off."
Quinn: "Not too much. An 8 ball is enough."
Buddy: "Works for me. But I gotta ask... Why now?"
Quinn: "A customer wants it."
Buddy: "That's not what I meant."
Quinn: "That's the answer that concerns you." Quinn turns to leave.
Buddy: "Don't be late next time, you hear?"
Now, you tell me honestly after reading that conversation: does it sound like Quinn is making any kind of power play, does it sound like she's interested in crime or drugs at all? I'm going to unequivocally state that I don't think she does, I don't think Quinn wants any part of the drugs, and it appears to me that she's done everything she could to distance herself from them. But despite that, the circumstances of her upbringing, and her life, have led her into a bad situation that she is trying to handle the best that she can, which she admittedly does poorly but she's only human. There's some hidden, crucial context in this scene we're missing, which is the true reason that Quinn is involved with the drugs at all. It could be because, as Buddy says, because Quinn is a daddy's girl, or it could be some unseen debt or threat that's forcing her to deal, but regardless I think it's pretty clear that Quinn does not want to be a part of this business.
Quinn doesn't deal hard drugs. Buddy expresses surprise that she would even ask for some, and says "You?" as though Quinn has drawn this line in the sand with him in the past. Further, Quinn expresses absolutely no desire or ambition to sell as much volume as Vinny does, making bland excuses to Buddy about the crowd she sells to instead. Does this sound like someone who wants to be a criminal mastermind? Does this sound like someone who is interested in the business at all? I don't think it does.
As far as I can tell from this conversation, and from how Quinn deals usually, Quinn has absolutely no desire to be a mover and shaker, in fact she seems more than happy to "come and go without anyone noticing", as you put it. It's revealed in her conversation with Buddy that she could be dealing with harder drugs all this time, as evidenced by the fact that he added the coke to her drop easily, and that she's lagging behind Vinny who likely does deal harder stuff, but she doesn't appear to care. She's been against it in the past, effectively hamstringing her own earning potential. Why?
Because that's her line in the sand. Her principled stand. Because she's seen what that stuff does to people around her. Because Quinn isn't in this for money, glory, ego, pride, or ambition. She's not in this to hurt people or tear families apart like hers was. She's in this because she doesn't have a choice. We don't know why, but her back is up against the wall. What you attribute to narcissism, I attribute to desperation. Far from thinking she's in control, she knows she's spinning out of control. She's into something way too deep, because of the circumstances of her family, and she's afraid; so afraid that she'd even strike out at her closest friends if they think of screwing things up for her. She thinks she has a way out of it, a plan, but it's failing - she probably knows it's failing, which is why she's even considering selling the coke, but it's the only plan she has and she knows if she or Riona deviates from it, if she admits she's making mistakes and starts doubting herself or letting others doubt her, their heads will go under the water and they'll both drown. She'd do whatever she has to to stop that from happening.
And again I must reiterate that none of this excuses or justifies what Quinn has done or is doing. Just because she thinks she doesn't have a choice, which is what I'm arguing, does not mean that she couldn't be doing things differently or better. We all agree she could be, but again, she's only human.
So those are my views on Quinn's actions in light of that conversation. As you can see, we have very different start and end points on her character, but I think I can at the very least justify why I see things the way I do, as you have as well. It's up to everyone who reads Quinn's story to come to their own conclusion I think, and I'm eager to hear the different takes of this great character
