VN Ren'Py Best Friends [Ch.10.1] [Faenon]

[Berlioz-7]

This whole story takes place over a matter of months not some in game days. Emma is on estrogen therapy and she mentions it earlier in the story that it makes her emotions all jumbled. She's been with the MC her entire life and now they even live together. They both keep going through their shares of relationships and are both realizing neither are able to form the bond with others that they have within themselves. Male MC has even started to accept that he might be open to something else with other Trans LI's as opposed to the uncomfortable flirting he had received back at the cafe with Claire. I think this story is very human and realistic, especially when dealing with a character as overwhelmed as Emma is and I think expecting them to not ever have had their views on sexuality changed is what would have been completely unrealistic for me.

 

[Lord Volt]

Enjoyed this so much I purchased it on Itch. Anyways. Vicky can fuck the hell off. Thanks, love you dev!

 

[lkta]

So through her teenage years she realizes, and becomes, her true self, a woman, who at no point during that time has any interest in boys.

She is still very enthusiastically only interested in girls, something she confirms to her friends, family, herself, and the audience at every occasion, and yet within the course of a week she is suddenly head over heels about boys; supposedly one specific one.

It is not a week though is it. A full year has passed by the end of chapter 8 and previously spending time together as male friends is a bit different than actually living with someone who is always there for you during a huge change in your life. Not hard to see that relationship develop into something deeper over time.

Very rare a game (or in this instance completely kinetic novel) will get me to part with my money whilst still in development but was more than happy to buy this on steam.

 

[Crimsonfiend76]

So through her teenage years she realizes, and becomes, her true self, a woman, who at no point during that time has any interest in boys.

She is still very enthusiastically only interested in girls, something she confirms to her friends, family, herself, and the audience at every occasion, and yet within the course of a week she is suddenly head over heels about boys; supposedly one specific one. A person who she has known for years, spent tens of thousands of hours being very close to, so much so that they know each other better than anyone. Yet we are supposed to believe that she somehow is suddenly attracted to him, as though a switch has been flipped. Something that in all that time she has never even entertained the idea of being a possibility. That's ludicrous. That much time with that person, at some point she would have definitely thought about it, if it were indeed even remotely true.

She has continued to encourage him to be with women that she knows he enjoys being with, and is genuinely sorry for him when he breaks up with the girlfriend he loves. Despite all that, and every indication to the contrary, she is just all of a sudden sexually attracted to him, and whole internal monologues are devoted to that major inexplicable shift. Seems to me it's a plot device to throw in a "twist", and is completely out of place. It doesn't fit Emma's personality, anything we know about her, the history they have shared, her prominent sexual orientation, or any other aspect of the story.

It makes no sense, and ruined the story for me. If the female lead and the male lead simply remained, as the title suggests, Best Friends, rather than shoehorning in a romance between them which seems so out of place it halts the whole story, then I would have loved to continue reading. As it sits, I don't know if I can. I will probably continue to do so, in the hopes that the entire storyline of them being anything more than friends is summarily dropped (I can hope), but I'm no longer optimistic.

That's funny since I had the complete opposite reaction. From the onset I had hoped as the male MC was supportive and there for the trans MC, they both learned more about themselves and what it means to be their true selves. If that meant the male MC through his exposure to more trans girls allowed himself to be more sensitive to their issues while also being open minded into potentially dating them, then great! In the same way, I liked to see life through the trans MC's perspective... Dealing with every day issues and bigger existential ideas such as re-orienting or how they perceive themselves and the world around them... From simple things like music, fashion, and new hobbies to more substantial ideas like who they are attracted to, or whether they now consider themselves gay, straight or even pansexual...or if it even matters in the short term who they thought they were attracted to compared to who they are now drawn to.

That said, I am also a bit of a sucker for romantic stories involving childhood or longtime friends, and even if this would be a somewhat different kind of potential romantic story between longtime friends, I thought it might be interesting to see them explore their changing feelings for each other.

 

[Dr. Mick]

That's funny since I had the complete opposite reaction. From the onset I had hoped as the male MC was supportive and there for the trans MC, they both learned more about themselves and what it means to be their true selves. If that meant the male MC through his exposure to more trans girls allowed himself to be more sensitive to their issues while also being open minded into potentially dating them, then great! In the same way, I liked to see life through the trans MC's perspective... Dealing with every day issues and bigger existential ideas such as re-orienting or how they perceive themselves and the world around them... From simple things like music, fashion, and new hobbies to more substantial ideas like who they are attracted to, or whether they consider themselves gay, straight or even pansexual...or if it even matters in the short term who they thought they were attracted to compared to who they are now drawn to.

That said, I am a bit of a sucker for romantic stories involving childhood or longtime friends, and even if this would be a somewhat different kind of potential romantic story between longtime friends, I thought it might be interesting to see them explore their changing feelings for each other.

I would have had no issue whatsoever with the male MC deciding that he was willing to date or be involved with trans girls; would have been great to see him and Claire get together. If by supporting and living with his longtime best friend, who has transitioned, he finds that his horizons have expanded, that's great. The male MC coming to think of all women as women, and that leading to him being open to new experiences was something I did see coming. It doesn't mean that the two of them have to hook up though. What I don't like is the dramatic shift out of nowhere for the female MC. She has never expressed even the slightest interest in guys, quite literally rolling her eyes or saying Eww whenever the idea was brought up through the first two thirds of the novel. Then in the course of an evening she goes from having no interest whatsoever to suddenly being overly sexually attracted to the male MC. It makes no sense.

Would have been great if they remained best friends, and went on the journey together, as friends, without having to fall into the cliche of becoming a couple.

 

[Dr. Mick]

It is not a week though is it. A full year has passed by the end of chapter 8 and previously spending time together as male friends is a bit different than actually living with someone who is always there for you during a huge change in your life. Not hard to see that relationship develop into something deeper over time.

Very rare a game (or in this instance completely kinetic novel) will get me to part with my money whilst still in development but was more than happy to buy this on steam.

They were already the best of friends, spending time with each other for hours a day most days, and even sleeping at each others houses regularly. Even through the course of the first semester together, there is no indication that the female MC is interested in the male MC in that way, or as anything more than a best friend. Quite the opposite in fact; any suggestion of the two of them being a couple us summarily dismissed. Then suddenly, in the course of one evening, that is completely flipped on its head.
The two of them developing an even deeper relationship from living together is certainly feasible, but still doesn't mean it has to become one of sexual attraction. They could simply be the absolute best of friends; so much so that they are like family, and it could be that they are as close as brother and sister.

I don't know about later chapters, because after the unexpected and ill-conceived shift in chapter six I stopped reading. I may look to see how it concludes once it is completely finished, however I'm not optimistic after the misdirection that happened in six. Oh well; it was a really good story up to that point.

 

[Dr. Mick]

This whole story takes place over a matter of months not some in game days. Emma is on estrogen therapy and she mentions it earlier in the story that it makes her emotions all jumbled. She's been with the MC her entire life and now they even live together. They both keep going through their shares of relationships and are both realizing neither are able to form the bond with others that they have within themselves. Male MC has even started to accept that he might be open to something else with other Trans LI's as opposed to the uncomfortable flirting he had received back at the cafe with Claire. I think this story is very human and realistic, especially when dealing with a character as overwhelmed as Emma is and I think expecting them to not ever have had their views on sexuality changed is what would have been completely unrealistic for me.

Would have been completely believable that the time spent with the MCs going on the journey together would expand the male MC's understanding of all types of women. He loved Elly, and is really broken up that their relationship won't continue because she is moving overseas. The female MC taking hormones would certainly cause spikes in her emotional state, but it isn't going to make her sexuality do a flip. She spends the first five and a half chapters showing and telling everyone that she only has an interest in girls. Regardless of the pressure from others, she stays true to herself and maintains that throughout the first two thirds of the novel. Then in an unrealistic twist, after one night of drinking and a hug, she is suddenly and inexplicably sexually attracted to a guy. It doesn't make sense.

Had the story continued with the male MC coming to the conclusion that he is interested in women whether they are trans or cis, and the best friend dynamic being what helped him find that discovery, that would have been great and a wonderful development in the story. Changing a fundamental part of who the female MC is, just to fall into the trope of the two longtime friends hooking up, is poor writing and ruins the story.

 

[Berlioz-7]

I don't know what to tell you other than you should just move on and play something else. People's feelings change over time and it's not so hard to believe that a person who is transitioning starts having their sexual orientation changed. Is Emma's change sudden, sure. But she is also drunk by the point you mention and all she really says is it feels good when he holds her while making a comment about being kissed. The story is meant to end around chapter 10-11 per the developers steam comments so you cant exactly drag out the relationship development and im all for this seeing as the game is clearly focused on the relationship the 2 MC's have since literally every single other LI on both paths makes a comment about not wanting more. Elly is the one exception and even the developer said she ended up having a larger role than what was intended and he got carried away.

We're just gonna have to agree to disagree cause the game you would have wanted is in no way appealing to me. Just another college setting game with a dude whose best friend happens to be Trans and is dating on the side. I wouldn't have been as attached to Emma's character if that would have been the case then.

 

[Crimsonfiend76]

I don't know what to tell you other than you should just move on and play something else. People's feelings change over time and it's not so hard to believe that a person who is transitioning starts having their sexual orientation changed. Is Emma's change sudden, sure. But she is also drunk by the point you mention and all she really says is it feels good when he holds her while making a comment about being kissed. The story is meant to end around chapter 10-11 per the developers steam comments so you cant exactly drag out the relationship development and im all for this seeing as the game is clearly focused on the relationship the 2 MC's have since literally every single other LI on both paths makes a comment about not wanting more. Elly is the one exception and even the developer said she ended up having a larger role than what was intended and he got carried away.

We're just gonna have to agree to disagree cause the game you would have wanted is in no way appealing to me. Just another college setting game with a dude whose best friend happens to be Trans and is dating on the side. I wouldn't have been as attached to Emma's character if that would have been the case then.

I agree, and I do believe it's possible for people's feelings and in some cases who they are attracted to change over time. Likewise, I was also interested in seeing if this path both MC's find themselves on would at some point lead to them seeing each other differently... as more than just close friends that grew up together and know each other in one particular way in their pre-adolescent - adolescent years, and if there was a chance to see each other differently as adults. Whether they end up together permanently or even temporarily, It's still something I'd like to see explored.

 

[Leviashen]

Is it just me or is this game just kind of...boring? Granted I'm not too far in but so far all I've done is sit through a shopping trip and several dragging conversations about university and transitioning. Every dialogue between the male MC and an attractive woman tends to go the same way. With them teasing him, and him being like "I... erm..what?".

Does the pace pick up or the tone change at all going further in?

 

[Dr. Mick]

I don't know what to tell you other than you should just move on and play something else. People's feelings change over time and it's not so hard to believe that a person who is transitioning starts having their sexual orientation changed. Is Emma's change sudden, sure. But she is also drunk by the point you mention and all she really says is it feels good when he holds her while making a comment about being kissed. The story is meant to end around chapter 10-11 per the developers steam comments so you cant exactly drag out the relationship development and im all for this seeing as the game is clearly focused on the relationship the 2 MC's have since literally every single other LI on both paths makes a comment about not wanting more. Elly is the one exception and even the developer said she ended up having a larger role than what was intended and he got carried away.

We're just gonna have to agree to disagree cause the game you would have wanted is in no way appealing to me. Just another college setting game with a dude whose best friend happens to be Trans and is dating on the side. I wouldn't have been as attached to Emma's character if that would have been the case then.

People's feelings can certainly change over time; though it is usually not so abrupt or dramatic. As for sexual orientation changing during transitioning, that's largely a myth.
Gender identity and sexual orientation are separate. While HRT will make you more comfortable in your own skin, so you may experience an increase in libido and confidence, leading you to be more likely to pursue sexual relationships, it does not alter your sexual orientation or who you are attracted to; even the sister in the story acknowledges this, and makes a point of it.

The reason for my disappointment comes from the story falling into the trope or cliche of the main characters having to become a couple, rather than remaining friends.
Overall the story is not cliche, in fact, right up until halfway through chapter six I was ecstatic that it hadn't fallen into the cliche of friends becoming a couple, and then it happened.

All too often a good story, with great friends discovering life's mysteries and navigating its hardships together, is ruined by following the trope that they have to become a couple. It was thoroughly enjoyable for most of the story that the two main characters were remaining friends and didn't need to be more, it was one of the best parts about the storyline. Then suddenly they were sexually attracted to each other and going to become a couple. That's the cliche; friends can just be friends, best friends or otherwise; they don't always have to become a couple, or lovers, or even be attracted to each other. Especially when they've spent most of the story expressing that it was not the case whenever someone brought it up, and that they weren't interested in each other that way.

One drunken hug later, and the trope rears its ugly head. If the author/dev truly wanted to make a unique story, they should have remained friends. Period.
If you didn't see it that way, then we will indeed have to agree to disagree.

 

[someyoungguy]

If you folks don't want to hear any of my announcements on game availability I will stop posting. I apologise for any stress I have caused.

I think it could be helpful to change the colour of your text. As it is, the text is either barely readable or not readable at all on the majority of images if the text box opacity is low enough to allow seeing the image through it reasonably well.

 

[Berlioz-7]

One drunken hug later, and the trope rears its ugly head. If the author/dev truly wanted to make a unique story, they should have remained friends. Period.
If you didn't see it that way, then we will indeed have to agree to disagree.

But I do see it that way, it's just that it's not that serious. Throughout the entire beginning Emma is constantly teased with "your boyfriend is here" comments so I knew from then on who the real LI was. No other LI has served any purpose other than make the MC's realize just how comfortable they are with each other. Who cares if she's constantly saying she's straight. It's a game on a time crunch and it was a necessary plot device for the relationship to develop more in these last 2 or 3 chapters. I'm fine with it it's really not that big of a deal. They are best friends/soon to be lovers and I'm all for it. It's given me exactly what I anticipated and expected out of the game and I never harbored any other delusions as to who the main LI was going to be. Spaghetti is straight till it's wet after all and this is a porn game, there's no need to judge it so hard just for a plot device you don't like.

 

[ItsKindaComplicated]

She has never expressed even the slightest interest in guys, quite literally rolling her eyes or saying Eww whenever the idea was brought up through the first two thirds of the novel.

In the words of William Shakespeare "the lady doth protest too much." I think it goes back to her conditioning that growing up she was always 'supposed' to be a boy and boys are 'supposed' to act a certain way and like certain people. I think she also still had not fully accepted that she is a girl going so far as to say the idea of being with a guy was gay, which she had also likely been told was wrong. I can tell you first hand that I was told doing certain things sexually was wrong. Or if not wrong, at least gay with the implication that it was wrong. For years I thought that enjoying toys up my ass would make me gay. But now, as a grown adult with an understanding of the human body and of sexuality, I know that me enjoying my wife wearing a strap-on or me just going to town on myself does not mean I am gay. But rather that I am open to other experiences. But if you had asked me about that when I first discovered that i enjoyed it, I would have said "No I don't! I'm not gay!" Not because I was ashamed, but rather because I had been conditioned by society to think that way. But I am also in my mid 50s and lived through the AIDS crisis here in the United States and saw first hand how that stigma effected people I knew. Now I don't give a shit anymore and have walked into sex toy shops with my wife and asked people for recommendations of what my wife can use to get me off. I guess this is a long winded way of me saying that it took a long time to come to terms with that for myself and I believe that Emma is on a similar path. But I have faith that she will get there.

 

[Dr. Mick]

But I do see it that way, it's just that it's not that serious. Throughout the entire beginning Emma is constantly teased with "your boyfriend is here" comments so I knew from then on who the real LI was. No other LI has served any purpose other than make the MC's realize just how comfortable they are with each other. Who cares if she's constantly saying she's straight. It's a game on a time crunch and it was a necessary plot device for the relationship to develop more in these last 2 or 3 chapters. I'm fine with it it's really not that big of a deal. They are best friends/soon to be lovers and I'm all for it. It's given me exactly what I anticipated and expected out of the game and I never harbored any other delusions as to who the main LI was going to be. Spaghetti is straight till it's wet after all and this is a porn game, there's no need to judge it so hard just for a plot device you don't like.

In response to some of your points:

• Used to get the same teasing growing up with a family friend; went on for years, and we never ended up together.
• That kind of teasing didn't indicate that it was going to happen, to me at least; it seemed like a fun way for them to dismiss the idea, despite what their friends and family might say.
• They were already very comfortable with each other before they even went to Uni; it's a large part of why they ended up at the same school.
• I'm glad you got what you wanted out of it.
• It being an adult title has nothing to do with it. They could have easily been with any number of other love interests, or found their true love with someone else and committed to them. It being "porn" doesn't mean they are going to end up together in any capacity beyond friends.

Regardless of category, it was a good story. That's why the change hit so hard.
If somewhere past the halfway mark, approaching two thirds, a movie that you were very much enjoying suddenly introduced a plot device like this that you didn't like, would you just dismiss it and be okay with it?
What if A League of Their Own suddenly had the star player and the coach become a couple?
Or if the best friend in My Best Friend's Wedding, had ended up with the groom-to-be, rather than supporting him as his best friend?
Those movies would have been ruined, and that's how I felt about the plot device being used here. It cheapened the story, and made Emma (the female MC) seem like a lesser character; only there to be the male MC's love interest, rather than the center of the story, with them supporting each other as Best Friends.

We aren't going to agree, and that's okay. Simply wanted to say why I was disappointed in the direction the author decided to take the story, especially so late in the timeline.
There really isn't a point in continuing this. I didn't like it; you did. We disagree, and neither of us is going to change the other's mind.
So I will bid you farewell, hope you enjoy the conclusion, and have a good one.

 

[Dr. Mick]

In the words of William Shakespeare "the lady doth protest too much." I think it goes back to her conditioning that growing up she was always 'supposed' to be a boy and boys are 'supposed' to act a certain way and like certain people. I think she also still had not fully accepted that she is a girl going so far as to say the idea of being with a guy was gay, which she had also likely been told was wrong. I can tell you first hand that I was told doing certain things sexually was wrong. Or if not wrong, at least gay with the implication that it was wrong. For years I thought that enjoying toys up my ass would make me gay. But now, as a grown adult with an understanding of the human body and of sexuality, I know that me enjoying my wife wearing a strap-on or me just going to town on myself does not mean I am gay. But rather that I am open to other experiences. But if you had asked me about that when I first discovered that i enjoyed it, I would have said "No I don't! I'm not gay!" Not because I was ashamed, but rather because I had been conditioned by society to think that way. But I am also in my mid 50s and lived through the AIDS crisis here in the United States and saw first hand how that stigma effected people I knew. Now I don't give a shit anymore and have walked into sex toy shops with my wife and asked people for recommendations of what my wife can use to get me off. I guess this is a long winded way of me saying that it took a long time to come to terms with that for myself and I believe that Emma is on a similar path. But I have faith that she will get there.

That's wonderful for you; truly. You are entirely correct in that enjoying anal pleasure does not make you gay, nor is it a "gay" sexual act.
If Emma (female MC) decided that she wanted to have anal pleasure from another trans woman, or a woman with a strap-on, dildo, vibrator, fingers, or a whole fist, that would be great, I'd be glad she was exploring her sexual pleasure, and absolutely none of it would change her sexual orientation. When you discovered and began to explore anal pleasure, did you suddenly find men sexually attractive? I'm guessing not, and yet the author decided that Emma was going to make that sudden switch.

Thinking it was "gay" might have given her an outward pause about expressing an interest in boys, if that was ever something she had indicated might be what she was interested in.
However, as this is a story, we are privy not only to what she says and does, but also her internal monologue. At no point does she ever express any interest in boys; there isn't even a passing fancy that she suppresses because she's worried about how it might be perceived. She simply has no attraction to or interest in men; this is evident in her actions, thoughts, and words.
She expressed some concern about what she was exploring with Claire's help, and how it might be interpreted. That was easily set aside, with some encouragement from Claire. Even in the middle of that, Emma expressed an interest in possibly exploring more with Claire, or other women. She wasn't talking or thinking about men.

That was my point. Her switch to suddenly finding the male MC sexually attractive is abrupt and seems wholly out of place.

 

[BenHatira]

Looks like i started the apocalypse in this thread, sorry about that !

 

[SirexArango]

I think it could be helpful to change the colour of your text. As it is, the text is either barely readable or not readable at all on the majority of images if the text box opacity is low enough to allow seeing the image through it reasonably well.

I also say the same thing
I thought it was a problem because I translated the game myself, but if you turn the brightness up a lot you can see it a little better. I wish

 

[Crimsonfiend76]

Enjoyed the latest update, so far it seems the one who has showed the most growth is Michael, from where he started to where he currently is, constantly thinking about being with Claire and Emma, even while having sex with Tia. I am almost certain if he didn't date Elly, he might have had a chance to date Kim. I do like seeing him admit to himself his feelings for Emma and Claire, and we'll see if he decides to take the next step and do something about that or if he will just keep his feelings bottled up.

On the other hand, I can't help but feel a little disappointed in Emma, it seems she has done very little in terms of work on herself since coming out initially. She even more than Michael seems to have a hard time admitting that she is actually gay for wanting to only be with a girl, cis or otherwise, and can't seem to grasp the concept of accepting she is a trans lesbian... assuming of course she doesn't actually develop feelings for Michael at some point. Michael so far has been the one to actually take what Claire was trying to say about trans girls being girls and his attraction to one shouldn't matter and isn't gay.

Meanwhile I can't help but feel that a part of Emma from back when she was Jon and only supposed to being into girls is still at play and somehow affecting how she processes what is straight and what is gay instead of just accepting her feelings for the person and disregard what they have between their legs. The one minor thing she did budge on from her dogmatic beliefs regarding her orientation was admitting finding Claire attractive and enjoying giving her a bj, and even swallowing. For someone who was adamant that cock = gay and that was something she was most assuredly not, it seems like she is starting to make some small concessions to her previously held beliefs.

Going forward, it will be interesting to see how Emma and Michael will continue and if Michael in the meantime might be ready to try dating or having his first real experience with a trans girl. On a side note, I believe this story could have been developed without needing to choose to play as either Michael or Emma/Jon. Players may end up losing out on important PoV/internal thoughts of the main protags and most people might not want to play the game twice and see much of the same content over again just to see those internal thoughts and some mutually exclusive H-scenes. I think since this is a KN, this would really benefit as integrating both routes into one cohesive path where the player gets to see everything, all scenes and have access to both of Emma and Michael's perspectives.

 

[Noskillinvolved]

Really enjoying this so far but I do have one thing to say to the dev: it is shush not sush. Almost as infuriating as those devs who use yeap when they mean yep. Whenever I see that I don't know whether to say yayp or yeep.