Ren'Py Big Brother: Another Story Rebuild [v0.09.00] [Aleksey90]

[Nemo56]

It cannot be said that Eric is a poorly written character because clearly there are people who like his character and also people who despise him

I tend to disagree with the argumentation here, since there's people who despise any other guy than the MC in their VNs. That is not proof that all of them are well written.

But thanks for the list. Some of them I know and I would not necessarily share your opinion about them, it helps to understand what you are expecting.

In VNs I don't see any villain as challenge, since all you do is click click click which is not a challenge.
If you actually have to perform specific tasks to defeat him and can also lose, then it can be a challenge.

 

[khumak]

It cannot be said that Eric is a poorly written character because clearly there are people who like his character and also people who despise him, but he surely fulfills his objective of spice things up.

Examples of NSFW games with good antagonists, in addition to there being games where the protagonist is the bad guy or Villain who corrupts, there are those that challenge the protagonist.

Being liked and being well written are not the same thing. You can have a well written character who is intended to be disliked. Thomas Covenant the unbeliever would be the best example I can think of for that. I hated the main character in that series but I still feel he was well written.

You can also have a poorly written character who is liked by a significant number of people. I would say the most common example for this would be one dimensional but very attractive characters. People like them because they're hot and/or badass and they really have nothing else to them. They're usually a Mary Sue (whether male or female). So there's no hero's journey, no struggles, no need for friends, no weaknesses, etc. The story is a foregone conclusion. Whoever the bad guy is, the protagonist is going to defeat them effortlessly. Any character played by Scarlett Johansen I'm going to like because she's a goddess. Doesn't matter if she's poorly written.

To me a well written character has certain requirements that must be met for them to achieve that status.

- Can not be one dimensional. Must have both flaws and redeeming qualities. Barring possible exceptions for a super villain like Sauron, they can't be pure evil and they also can't be pure good.
- They should have people they care about and are willing to accept some personal risk to protect.
- Should have more than 1 goal guiding their actions, ideally competing interests that make them a more complex character
- For a protagonist, the hero's journey is absolutely required. They should experience failure on a regular basis and they should need help from their friends. Mary Sue's need not apply (whether male or female).

To me Erik pretty much fails all of that. He's pure evil. He has zero redeeming qualities. He has nobody he genuinely cares about. He's basically an overpowered, one dimensional villain.

To be fair, Max is ALSO not a well written character IMO. He's also one dimensional. His motivations are purely selfish. He doesn't really seem to genuinely care about anyone as long as he gets his dick wet. The only part of the above that fits for him is the fact that he does fail and have to struggle to get what he wants so he sort of meets the hero's journey part.

None of this has anything to do with whether they are liked or not. I don't like either Erik or Max. But Max is the protagonist so if I have to root for either Max or Erik I'm going to choose Max. I'm basically choosing between pure evil vs an annoying little jerk.

 

[Shiva0067]

No problem with the wall of text hahaha I read it all, thanks for taking the time to explain your point of view.

I understand your perspective better and I would totally agree with your points but for me a villain is not a negative thing for this particular game.

Let me explain, I completely share the example you made of the Lord of the Rings, I hate that nonsense, especially when the writer wants to get creative and surprise the reader by wanting to be original he/she ends up ruining it.

but Sauron or Saruman were great, they were the challenge and after the struggle and agony comes victory and satisfaction.

For this game I understand that it bothers many players Eric but when you get rid of him you relax and take a weight off your shoulders and your relationship with women improves with new options, in fact the MC is more mature.

As Albert said to Bruce Wayne in the Batman movie "Why do we fall sir? So that we can learn to pick ourselves up. Bruce Wayne: You still haven't given up on me?"

Challenges are necessary because overcoming them is satisfying and you can grow the relationships between the characters and what is difficult to achieve tastes better in the end.

The Eric Character was NOT a villain like Sauron or Saruman. He was an attempt to change to story and avoid what it was originally created to be. The 'struggle and agony' were a series of events that didn't need to happen and caused problems that damaged the story.

Let's try this another way. A new 'Lord of the Rings' film series gets announced, and people get excited. The start is the same until we reach Bree. The Director decides to 'Subvert our expectations' by changing the 'Strider' character. Instead of going to Rivendell immediately there is a whole new story about Sam finding this new character to be awesome and joins a campaign to conquer the North and create a kingdom before continuing the actual quest. Merry and Pippin of course talk about how GREAT it is that they are all ignoring the dangers and join in. Several trips to Brothels while leaving Frodo behind could be added for the shock value as well. Has this improved the story? No, it is NOT needed, and damages what the original story should have been. Yes, some people might enjoy the new bits, but has it really added anything of value? I would say NO.

The Original game did NOT need the EVIL Scum Eric character to create struggles to overcome. We have the issue of the Cameras and where the equipment to run them is located (why wasn't there a hidden room with a server to be found). That could have been used to create a 'struggle' with the family working to keep the house and not have it taken back by the 'mysterious' guy who gave it to them (was it the father?). The Eric character MIGHT have been a part of this, but SHOULD have had a harder time becoming so powerful and influential so quickly.

For additional issues there are Lisa and Alice. We might have needed to save one or both of them form BAD situations. Alice might be in danger of ending up working for (being enslaved by) Kate's mother. Perhaps there is a group of boys at Lisa's school that are abusing girls, and we need to work as a family to save her (and Olivia).

Heck, the EVIL Scum Eric Character could have been used (on his own) as well. Just have there be issues at work (harassment and WORSE) and the family join together to overcome this. The character could have remained as a MOSTLY unseen danger and the story would have been better (in my opinion). Yes, we would have lost some (MOST) of the Voyeur scenes, but new 'Family Fun' scenes might have replaced them.

In the end EVIL Scum Eric was and is not really needed as he appeared in the original game. In this version I am hopeful that he will be handled FAR better. Of course, we need to wait and see how things progress, but as I say I AM hopeful.

Now as a side note I wonder if others think it strange that the second camera we add in this game will be in the Bathroom? While it does give a way to see more 'NAUGHTY' things early, I would think that the Pool area is a better choice. A slower progression in (nudity) camera placement just feels like a better option to me (though I DO want to see some more 'NAUGHTY' bits).

Just some thoughts (and another wall of text). -SIGH-

P.S. This insanity has been brought to you by the Chocolate Chip Cookies for a better tomorrow Commitee.

 

[khumak]

The Original game did NOT need the EVIL Scum Eric character to create struggles to overcome. We have the issue of the Cameras and where the equipment to run them is located (why wasn't there a hidden room with a server to be found). That could have been used to create a 'struggle' with the family working to keep the house and not have it taken back by the 'mysterious' guy who gave it to them (was it the father?). The Eric character MIGHT have been a part of this, but SHOULD have had a harder time becoming so powerful and influential so quickly.

Fully agree with this. I have no problem with a villain like Eric existing. But he starts off too powerful and has nothing redeeming about him. If he had started as a more typical boyfriend who doesn't have near mind control levels of power over Ann and there was a struggle for dominance between him and Max, that would have been much more interesting IMO.

For additional issues there are Lisa and Alice. We might have needed to save one or both of them form BAD situations. Alice might be in danger of ending up working for (being enslaved by) Kate's mother. Perhaps there is a group of boys at Lisa's school that are abusing girls, and we need to work as a family to save her (and Olivia).

Yeah I definitely think Kate's mother was a huge missed opportunity as someone who could have developed into a villain who could have been overcome in a much more satisfying manner for an adult game than Eric. I do think both Alice and Lisa are better characters for an adult game than Ann is since they both have their own motivations for advancing naughty parts of the story line without Max having to corrupt them into it. I really wish the story revolved a lot less on blackmail.

Now as a side note I wonder if others think it strange that the second camera we add in this game will be in the Bathroom? While it does give a way to see more 'NAUGHTY' things early, I would think that the Pool area is a better choice. A slower progression in (nudity) camera placement just feels like a better option to me (though I DO want to see some more 'NAUGHTY' bits).

Well from Max's perspective I think the bathroom makes perfect sense. It's the one place in the house where ALL of the females in the house are guaranteed to be completely naked on a regular basis. Naked trumps bikinis every time...

 

[Ntwaidumella]

I know... you know... they know

Spoiler

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[Master Bates Games]

The Original game did NOT need the EVIL Scum Eric character to create struggles to overcome. We have the issue of the Cameras and where the equipment to run them is located (why wasn't there a hidden room with a server to be found).

You know, I always did wonder how Max is running a multi-camera live streaming site with nothing but a laptop lol. I doubt those tiny spy cameras he gets could encode the video and connect to the site to stream it by themselves.

It's even suggested that they have to be connected to something to work, so what are they connected to?

 

[WhiteFireDaemon]

I always assumed that part of setting up the website would be arranging for the use of a server. The laptop would've just been for accessing that.

 

[firevoodoo]

Without Eric this whole story would were forgotten years ago.

There would were no BBAS, PGN spin-off etc.

That’s just a clinical fact.

 

[always86]

How far has the rebuild got so far. I played the original and the original Another Story a lot so don’t really want to play again until things catch back up. (Appreciate that may well be years)

 

[Nemo56]

How far has the rebuild got so far. I played the original and the original Another Story a lot so don’t really want to play again until things catch back up. (Appreciate that may well be years)

There is some new stuff, but the things you know from the old build haven't progressed a lot so far.
We are somewhere in the middle of the spider prank / foot massage arc. Since the renders for the other cameras are still missing, only one camera can be set up so far.

 

[always86]

There is some new stuff, but the things you know from the old build haven't progressed a lot so far.
We are somewhere in the middle of the spider prank / foot massage arc. Since the renders for the other cameras are still missing, only one camera can be set up so far.

… So check back in a couple of years.

 

[Mysters90]

Over the past few days, a lot has been said here about the antagonists and their influence on the plot.
Many interesting observations were presented.
However, it was also noted that the plot twists and turns can be so complicated and twisted that the protagonist does not need an opposing character.
For example, in Bad Bobby Saga, there is no antagonist as such, but this does not make the main character's life any easier.
As for this game, thanks to the efforts of the author, there is no antagonist here. Why, you ask? Because the one you take for a classic villain is actually a gaslighter. He's just a pest - a great manipulator and trust player, who sometimes succeeds just for what he is.
In any case, now the blind will start to persistently prove that I am wrong.

And I'll just add that this story will only benefit if there is an antagonist in it, but they forgot to invite him.

 

[kaokao13579]

Over the past few days, a lot has been said here about the antagonists and their influence on the plot.
Many interesting observations were presented.
However, it was also noted that the plot twists and turns can be so complicated and twisted that the protagonist does not need an opposing character.
For example, in Bad Bobby Saga, there is no antagonist as such, but this does not make the main character's life any easier.
As for this game, thanks to the efforts of the author, there is no antagonist here. Why, you ask? Because the one you take for a classic villain is actually a gaslighter. He's just a pest - a great manipulator and trust player, who sometimes succeeds just for what he is.
In any case, now the blind will start to persistently prove that I am wrong.

And I'll just add that this story will only benefit if there is an antagonist in it, but they forgot to invite him.

Why I choose to play a sandbox game that hasn't many sex scenes in years, is because I want to beat the competition(Eric) through my own efforts an operations. From this perspective, the fake friendship route is the most resonable and fulfilling one.

 

[Nemo56]

In the rebuild there will only be one "pro" Eric path, it's unknown if it will be more like the true or the fake friendship path.
But in the old version it was planned for every path for him to be gone at some point (in the "true" path he would try to get rid of Max), so it's very likely that it will happen in the rebuild. Makes sense since most opportunities don't involve him at all. He'll return as nuissance later however, he's still Ann's boss after all. In the previous person this brought Ann closer to Max since she needed a shoulder to cry on.

 

[dreamlord666]

without eric game boring

 

[Lordildo69]

So what game has more content. this game or the original with mods?

 

[keer]

So what game has more content. this game or the original with mods?

the original with mods

 

[Mysters90]

Spoiler: I can see everything... (v.0.05)

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[sn1978a1]

i played rebuild version 0.04.02
21days passed in game...erik...mother fucker...when appear?
Hasn't it been implemented yet?

 

[Nemo56]

i played rebuild version 0.04.02
21days passed in game...erik...mother fucker...when appear?
Hasn't it been implemented yet?

Number of days don't mean anything, except for very few events.
He visited shortly. His story arc will begin in a later chapter, probably CH2.