- Apr 16, 2024
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And yet... I smell their familiar scent somewhere else.
I wonder if you really understood the meaning of my inner thoughts?
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- Thread starter Ryahn
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- Oct 23, 2023
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Maybe if I specialised in quackery and sorcery, but now I can't read minds, but I can guess it with body language but that's imperceptible in text chats but who knows what Elon Musk brain chip might offer but but but but but but.. butts? Hmm...
- Apr 16, 2024
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What is that in your reply? I didn't write anything like that~
- Nov 25, 2020
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As cool as Lorde sounds Lindema is literally chasing your across timelines to punish you for your sins across literal timelines fully knowing who grimm is and how immensely powerful he is. As much of a victim Grimm is his deeds can never be justifed with ignorance of just insanity.
That's cause bandersnatch doesn't shower
I fully beat bs2 and dlc3, but it left me more confused, if someone could give me an understanding of the whole story of bs2 and the dlc that would be greatly appreciated.
Outer ones (tentacles) want babies but Grimm got tired of them and went back to vanilla
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Basically
Pre black souls 1
Jabberwock in her curiossity and immensse boredom decidesss to make the blackest soul, or rather wishes to see the blackest soul so she puts a plan into action
She gives a fairy tale to Leaf, the one of the many children of Shub-Niggurath (Baphomet), likely due to her unique talent and the power of "change" which sshe uniquely possess.
Becoming obsessed with fairy tales and their authors, Leaf wants something more, she wants to make her own story, and she also likely wants to include her authors within it. She basically wanted to make fan fiction but unlike normal fans, Leaf was a bonafide god, he could make this fan fiction real.
On another side, The Crawling One (Nyarlathotep) somehow ends up on earth, and witnesses the romance of Lewis Caroll and Alice.
There is not specific mention of Lewis actually fucking alice, just that they might've been a little too close than normal student and teacher. The Dean naturally noticed this and seperated them. After a long time, Alice Hargreaves invites her new teacher to a party. Upon arriving there, he sees alice, but not his Alice, not the young and beautiful girl but a hag who has already married another man.
Completely shocked and betrayed, Lewis runs out, wishing that he could have his alice. 2 gods hear of this, Leaf and TCO, the latter of which ends up granting him that wish
Wonderland
Lewis (there is a possibility of this being grimm, basically leaf made grimm, then was stolen by TCO, who granted lewis' wish, and likely dominated grimm's personality for a little while)
Lewis, Alice, and the prayer master have tea parties and enjoy piece in wonderland, however, it's not all peaceful, Lewis and Alice become closer, too close for the prayer master's liking. Out of jealosy, he wishes for something to change, and this wish reaches the ears of someone with other plans. Mary Sue, finally finding out where her favorite author went 'invades' Wonderland and connects her garden, The lost Empire to it, creating a twisted game of her liking, and creating her magnum opus, Grimm.
TCO notices this, after all, it's making changes to its garden, and also killing its aspect (prickett). However, it decides to simply watch, especially after the masterpiece that Mary sue creates, which intruiges, but mind you, she is always watching (ending d, wonderland top left next to jabberwock, she's in the top right corner)
(a small note, after consideration i don't believe that Alice at this point is likely prickett, who tries to help Grimm after mary sue invades and steals wonderland, so TCO isnt obsesssed with grimm yet. Based on mabel'ss dialogue this rings true as she talks as if TCO only went insane during it's play in BS2.)
Black souls 1
The twisted game begins, Mary starts writing however she wishes, playing a game of endless adventure with Grimm and the tales of the authors which make up grimm.
It's unlikely that grimm kept his memories after each cycle, but possbility of instinct remaining isnt far fetched (grimm recalls ending c in bs 2 despite it being over tens of cycle of ago and having hiss memory wiped multiple time)
However, his strength remained, and it kept growing, allowing him to get all the fairy taless, and see the real mastermind, mary sue, who delightfully confessess her misdeads.
He defeats her, and becomes a "god" of the world. However, even an ending in which she is defeated is still an ending, one which entertains the real 'god'.
Going back to zero once again, perhaps grimm could tell something was deeply wrong at this point, his hatered remained to some extent as after ending c if you interact with leaf, he stares at her a bit too intensely, a reason even he doesn't know.
He finds about Shub, who was summoned by Glinda, Dorothy's former apprentice. Being a possible lead, he follows the black trial and baphomet, curiouss where it leads him.
Ending D ensues, you beat baphomet, who in pure indignance can't accept that, and begs leaf to let her out, leaf doesn't accept this however. At this point though, TCO has had enough, it had seen everything, it was never unable to interfere, it simply chose not to. It likely acted because of 2 reasons.
1. As much of a child Leaf is, she is a genius, her power of change is phenomenal, and with it sshe created grimm, an amelgamation of several souls into one, with potential to rival The Great and Old ones in power, even surpasss the, aswell as the ability to breed other Great ones.
It is likely at this point or somewhere along the line that TCO actually absorbed alice, altough the timing itself just needs to be after the eventss of black souls in order to prevent timeline plot holes.
Black souls 2
Like all Great and Old ones, TCO was in its own way interested in humans and grimm putting his usefuleness for the war aside, it too wanted to 'feel' and thus it created a game with the help of Node (Or Nodens)
(note, im not quite sure why node did this, bs heavily follows Lovecraft's writings, yeah sure, none of the gods ever fall in love with an undead being there either but node being of assistance to TCO here doesnt make alot of sense here, since they are enemies)
Anyways, im ssick of writing so summary;
Same thing happends, grimm realizesss there's a problem with the new place he's in (thought he doesnt remember that much at this point)
This is what happened along the cycless(cannonical number was 60 something i cant recall, in node's notebook)
fell in love with Grimm
Tco became obsessed with grimm
Other old and great ones were invited to wonderland, who have come to know the masterpiece that is Grimm
Node asks mabel (Yog-Sothoth) for help in helping grimm escape. Mabel initially rejects the idea, however she changes her mind, and suggests a plan that's to node's benefit, that is, turning Grimm into a creator, using Grand guignol. (mabel's motive is to prevent the war between the great ones, as it will wake up The Idiot, or azathoth, while node's motive was being grimm's one and only supporter)
Node also brings in prickett on her plans
Wonderland becomes quite famous due to the spectacle that TCO is pulling, the great 4 elemental old ones however arent quite keen on joining, they prevent their followers, children and likely allies from joining, Kuti however doesn't follow this instruction.
Anyways, the new cycle begins, this time however, mabel and her garden. the chaos dungeon is there. This will allow grimm to grow much stronger.
(If you're curious as to why TCO never stopped mabel, it likely couldn't yog is practically THE old one 2nd only to azatoth, stopping it was practically unlikely. Though in the end, grimm becoming stronger was benefical to it, even if it became stronger than TCO, grimm was still in love with his darling alice, someone he'd never harm right?)
Also, ending G is initiated, grimm discovers red hood, and journey's through the mad world with some real sanity
(if you werent aware, sen isnt sanity, it's sendam is the full name, reverse that and you got madness)
Grimm recovers the memories of Lewis and his past (the hotel scene).
Grimm 'reaches the end' of the story once again, and starts another cycle, but with more clarity, he knows who this is, Alice Liddel, or rather, The Crawling One
Ending G happends (also likely ending F at some point?), however, Grand guignol is a thing, grimm can never escape as long as it exists.
Grimm remains ignorant of how he can actually escape, that is until finds a certain door which he cant open, advising him to go into the chaos dungeon.
Beating the old king, Mabel honestly tells about her plans of making him into a creator, aswell as showing interest in what he will do.
you know the drill, grimm discovers the graveyard and winterbell, goes through the mansion and recovers more of his past.
(it also has strange lore implications, there is an 'audio' log of lewis' interregation after he 'killed' the 3 sisters. Also GG is the one who keeps giving you hints. Though i havent seen it personally, apperently you can get some interview with leaf where she explain the mansion itself was a torture chamber for lewis meant to degrade him mentally)
He goess down the stairs with mabel, who educates him more on the situation that's happening outside.
Then her death scene happends, she "betrays" him to ease the suffering her death would've normally caused (altough, betrayal hurts plenty aswell, so im honestly not sure if that was the best solution) and Mabel is killed by GG.
First, Mabel isn't dead, well, not really, YOG isn't dead, but mabel is, she is simply an avatar of yog, so if you liked her, there is a possiblity of her coming back
secondly, GG killed mabel for 2 reasons, 1, she made grimm stronger than he needed to be, preventing fusion, and 2, she told him far too much
thirdly, Mabel feels feelings for the first time
This is my headcannon about the situation, so you can ignore it as it isnt the actual lore breakdown, just some food for thought.
I think mabel let herself die. Out of the 3 people who love grimm, 2 of them tried to manipulate him, and prickett is honestly an outlier
I think mabel didn't want to become obsessed like TCO and Node did, simply wishing to die with this 'pure' emotion of affection and love.
Anyways, you go down the stairs, meet the playwright (he's the original writer of the actual theater play also called Grand guignol, somehow out of sheere anger for being plagerized and jealousy for not being the one chosen by GG, he somehow entered winterbell and tried to stop grimm.
You know the drill, you either let yourself become one with GG, becoming a new creator, and node supporting you as your only beloved in the war, or you win, take the power of creation for yourself, TCO tries to stop you, but node holds her back while prickett helps you out of the garden as you and red hood escape.
And as you know, (i forgot to write about it) Mary's curse still takes place despite it happening in the previous cycle, and red hood dies.
Anyone's free to correct me, though this should be true
You got it
I don't think TCO ever "absorbs" alice since her soul or whatever it is is still present in G end at the white space which is basically a prison outer ones keep things in for later (see victoria dialogue in BS 2).
There's a short dialogue on the radio between Mary Sue and some other characters (one of which is Mytyl) about how Lewis' mind is too unstable to mess with his soul and they ask Mary how she'll fix that. She doesn't say how she will do it, just that she has a good idea. You have to inspect again after getting the knife on horror route to hear all this.
I'm of the opinion the mansion is a recreation (like many things GG "creates") of the scenario Mary Sue used to break Lewis before merging him into Grimm. The killings are some of the actions Lewis took at that time.
Also, Mabel is giving hints, GG is basically just chatting at you. Mabel's notes are well written while GG's are childish and broken.
Pretty sure her goal was the opposite, make it as heavy as possible, based on her lore dump after old king. She betrayed him, then confessed her love for him, only to immediately die.
- Nov 25, 2020
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Fair point, however she had still given him closure intentionally after he tried to save her. Mabel's intentions were simply to make grimm a creator, his soul becoming darker serves very little purpose (though im still unsure of why they care about that so much, the darknesss of a soul servess very little purposse to power since a bs 2 beginning grimm is still someone who cannonically killed 85 million people and likely more, while being much weaker than his bs1 counterpart atleast in the beginning). I'm aware im stretching my point, i kinda want it to be true but only half assedly, since it's out of character than a bonafide god who felt emotion for the first time would be able to showcase that much empathy aswell.
Anyways, causing him as much pain as possible wasn't the intention, cause she could've tuck to her betrayer character and manipulate him more during their journey through winterbell.
Thank you and Phenir out for explaining this for me, I felt like you needed a Harver degree in order to get the story.
Pricketts sense of self and ego forming could have happend over various timeframes. The only thing i would tackle considering how possesive & calculating TCO seemingly was before it went mad. I dont think it would have handed over Grimm/Lewis to Mary Sue like that. Unless its also part of its "plan". Which is why i assume during the timeframe where Leaf managed to "invade" Wonderland because of Prayer Masters wish. TCO at that point already had to fight mentally against the love virus.
Going back to how TCO backstabbed & killed everyone who worked with it on Wonderlands creation. I cant see its massive ego allowing anyone else controle over something it owns or wants to use. Pre love infection that is.
We dont have a lot to go on besides Mabel, Node & ending F from Mary Sue herself. I got the impression TCO really just wanted to snatch all the children that would come out of Grimm & Eldritch gods breeding & utulize them as soldiers or a combat force. Because Mabel and other examples already showcased eldritch children are kinda like turtles. They either manage to get to the ocean on their own or get fucked by predators. The whole reveal of Node`s children being used as fodder at that point + all the black sludge eggs. Kuti tellings us for some reason her parents didnt want to join the invitation of TCO and forbid her and Oyster from visiting Wonderland.
Which makes sense if they expect TCO invite being a pretense for a trap. With love and mortal pleasure being the bait.
I am not sure if BS3 will continue this plot point regarding the "Black Soul" and it importance in the overall story. But seemingly black aka tainted souls give you some sort of power up? They do mention the more corrupted you are the more desires you chase. So that power might as well go over people head. On top off the Black Trial seemingly sweeping all the Black Souls for a bigger purpose. Which also begs the question why Hein under the table sells them to you. Creating a even bigger black soul by absorbing them.
Mabel also mention this in regards to our vessel. As our body cant really contain our black soul any longer should we absorb even more power.
The most interesting inverse lore point about it comes froma Q&A that is found in the japanese wiki.
Toro mentions the shade/pure black appearence of Grimm is because our black soul is so intense & tainted that any vessel Grimm takes on will immidatly be enveloped by it. Maybe its only a excuse so they dont have to draw any facial features. But apparently us being a walking shadow is because of that.
Dont take it as fact tho thats just my 2 dimes towards the convo points.
At least there's something under those black depths if you're brave enough to peek.
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While TCO's ego is quite large proven by the fact of how it acts, it seemss to always let alot of stuff it should've go. It let Node bring back yog, the only entity rivalling if not surpassing it, not only that, yog brough it's entire garden and just connected it to wonderland without an ounce of permission. Then, Prickett and node made GG based on Leaf's power, there's no way it didn't know GG existed or what it was, and this is only something that occured AFTER several cycles since node 100% did not love grimm in the beginning, and GG and the chaos dungeon were never there from the beginning. You can argue that TCO assumed yog was simply there to participate in her breeding game, but her actions were far beyond a mere obserever, altough even if it wanted to act im not sure what it could've done to mabel, but the lack of interference confuses me. Then there's the fact that after ending g it practically did nothing, it had to have known it died and that grimm knew, the game itself was fucked at this point. It never cared about Grimm being a creator it just cared about grimm itself, so why it had waited for grimm to either fail ot kill GG is beyond me. Despite seemingly being egotisstical and controlling, it lets alot of people to it's devices.
Sure, but given TCO's behavior and the game's narrative we can conclude this, jabberwock speaks of an obsession about being a true creator and the color of souls to also be something applied to TCO. Great and Old ones have an almost child like curiosity towards new things, we've seen it with leaf, kuti, tco and mabel. It's desire to learn could equally be the same.
=
While to some extent the black souls narrative is a literal reference to dark souls, which has its own ideas about that, but im not quite versed in it exactly so i wont bother even trying to find out. It has to be included in the BS3 since its an incredibly pivotal part of the story, it all started because jabberwock wanted to see one. I'm not quite sure it's too tied too power itself since at some point during the cycles of Bs1 grimm accumulates a kill count of 85 million, many of which could've been his 'loved ones'. The black soul is a corruption of ones character. When Bs 2 begins grimm's power is comlpetely taken away, however you can't uncorrupt grimm, his soul had to have been blacker at the start of bs2 due to commiting more scenes and generally degrading his mind eve more.I am not sure if BS3 will continue this plot point regarding the "Black Soul" and it importance in the overall story. But seemingly black aka tainted souls give you some sort of power up? They do mention the more corrupted you are the more desires you chase. So that power might as well go over people head. On top off the Black Trial seemingly sweeping all the Black Souls for a bigger purpose. Which also begs the question why Hein under the table sells them to you. Creating a even bigger black soul by absorbing them.
Mabel also mention this in regards to our vessel. As our body cant really contain our black soul any longer should we absorb even more power.
The most interesting inverse lore point about it comes froma Q&A that is found in the japanese wiki.
Toro mentions the shade/pure black appearence of Grimm is because our black soul is so intense & tainted that any vessel Grimm takes on will immidatly be enveloped by it. Maybe its only a excuse so they dont have to draw any facial features. But apparently us being a walking shadow is because of that.
We're protecting the newbies
Mabel's statement could've carried both meanings, that grimm himself as a person is on the brink of collapse, and that his power will go with him aswell, which kind of fits. Even if she didn't it's still a true fact, at this point grimm has lost everything he ever could've cared about while committing countless more sins, the only thing that's keeping him from collapse is either a desire for revenge and/or the fact he has taken GG creator authorithy in the form of MAry Sue's Change ability
Another question if someone can answer and I'm going to try and not sound insane.
I got the G ending and beat the Old King but I'm still unable to access the dlc 3.
However, could the problem be that after getting the G ending, I reloaded an old save file, do I need to create a new game+ and restart everything (campfire, Prickett's ring, covenants) or am I missing something?
I got the G ending and beat the Old King but I'm still unable to access the dlc 3.
However, could the problem be that after getting the G ending, I reloaded an old save file, do I need to create a new game+ and restart everything (campfire, Prickett's ring, covenants) or am I missing something?
This goes down a slight rabbit hole to BS1 + BS2 lore snippets. But seemingly Mabel was already a collaborator with TCO since the Tea Party Adventures. As in not only was Uther Pendragon(Old King) involved but also its kin Arthur Pendragon. Uther/OldKing being refered to as a old enemy of Grimm & Jack o Box telling us some pre BS1 lore about how the Tea Party crew alongside Grimm fought against the Red Queen/Arthur Pendragon. Mabel mentioned she wanted to get revenge on Grimm initially during BS2 because he destroyed her nurtured champions. So whatever sort of backend deal these 2 had Yog was already part of it or intentionally lend her champions as actors to spy on TCO. Considering her whole motive is to prevent the all out war & if TCO had any plans to utulize Wonderland for the war then it would make sense.
And it woulndt have been easy to kill off Yog like the other 2 who helped TCO out to create Wonderland stage.
Regarding GG i think Mary Sues power really is just that special. The rewind/reset mechanic seemingly something other Outer Ones cant use to the extent Mary can. Because as we seen even if we manage to "defeat" the Alice flesh blob in G & kinda already get a happy ending. GG still acts on its own & rewinds the clock. We seen this set up BS1. C end we "kill" Mary Sue however the rewind still happens and Mary Sue in the follow up NG even mocks you for it. However that point isnt that strong considering she could have faked her defeat. What makes GG special is its function & TCO probably needed it as it was running out of actors to the point we use Grimms own children as fodder for the stage.
Well for the most part. The Dark Souls is tied to humanity as the first pigmy shared it so "hollows" become proper people. As the eternal grey & stagnation of immorality was normal before the first flame/souls was found. Dark Souls has been tied to matter, weight & the showcase of sharing & stealing souls.
In BS1 the only things that are adapted is the power to give and absorb souls. With the whole sin & corruption part coming more from Demon Souls. Because in DS1 you go hollow when you lose your willpower(you still can physically hollow but as long as your determination stays intact you will not lose your mind). While in DemonSouls you turn into a monster when the desire threshold is reached & your ego is consumed.
The main reason i think the Black Souls = some sort of forbidden or dangerous power up is because of how inverse they acknowdlege Grimms power to absorb souls & share them with the covenant systems. The most interesting thing the "outer one souls" Mabel sells us in the Chaosdungeons or gives us as a rewards at the Bossrush. Are also black & their description is interesting. So in turn for example if becoming tainted = potential to become a eldritch level entity. This would tie into Mabel trying to feed us all the blackest souls even those of outer ones to raise us into the "Creator" level entity she needs. Maybe the whole puprose of the Black Trial is to collect them for their own Outer One or to trim the weeds before they could become a problem in the powerbalance system of the Eldritch Gods.
While Jabberwock is a fucked up piece of patchwork. I think she is onto something with her whole goal to twist souls & her motivation to become a Creator of her own.
Yes its needs to be the follow up NG+ after G. So picking a different save file is the fumbled bag.
After reaching the G back end route and finishing it. The following NG on the same save file take the boat in carroll river to the door. Which will lead you to DLC3.
The folder in the game files should be pw protected. Thus you put in the code as the pw and you can look at all the bonus art
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This is what it looks like in the folder, and then after I try to extract it. Where do I actually insert the code?