- Jan 11, 2020
- 52
- 13
You have to purchase them from the NPC by the Sultry Plateau. If you turn from the portal, there is a path that is further right than the path that leads to the Harpy's.
Unreal Engine Breeders of the Nephelym [v0.761.52] [DerelictHelmsman]
- Thread starter DragonL
- Start date
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- Tags
- 3d game 3dcg adventure animated big ass big tits character creation creampie fantasy female domination female protagonist furry futa/trans futa/trans protagonist handjob harem lactation lesbian male protagonist management monster girl oral sex pregnancy religion sandbox tentacles titfuck trainer vaginal sex
- Aug 12, 2017
- 38
- 100
Seems like a lot of the different color variants got removed in the latest update. I remember reading in the patch notes that he had to rework the hair physics system so I wonder if that's why. The bee girls seem to only have one skin tone now. 
Looks like derelict has remove community created skins (i don't know for why reason) from nevest version, because I too noticed that lots of the skins disappeared. Here is archive with all presets, which exist in old versions and recently added. Move folder to "AppData\Local\Radiant\Saved" with replacing files, and enjoy.Seems like a lot of the different color variants got removed in the latest update. I remember reading in the patch notes that he had to rework the hair physics system so I wonder if that's why. The bee girls seem to only have one skin tone now.
And useful tip: you can combine skins between different races. Using this method I created about 10-15 new skins for different races
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- May 2, 2019
- 6
- 68
An enormous amount of bitching and moaning about it not being a real game, and then an even larger amount of bitching when I start turning it into one.
I do read this forum, seeking out negative critique that I don't get on Patreon on Discord because believe it or not I care about feedback. However, what no one understands is how difficult it is for a developer to please everyone.
Ask 10 people what they want out of this game and you will get back 100 different answers, some of which clash and cannot mutually exist.
This response is to set the record straight. I work on this game night and day, development is slower now because the code has reached a point where I can't just add things willy nilly without consequences. The last few engine versions have not been very good, and I have been chasing down bugs. There is so much more that goes into each build than what's on the release notes. I write this game from scratch in C++, by myself, in addition to making most of the art.
There is a curse with breeding games, and it's not lazy developers. It's the harsh reality of having to deal with making hundreds of thousands of animations for just a small set of races. Admittedly, I was not prepared for dealing with that when I first started this game. I decided to impose harsh restrictions to enable animation sharing, and it is the only reason this game exists.
It's fine that there is harsh criticism here, but please keep it constructive and don't spread lies about my character as a developer. I have never been out to scam anyone, having the freedom to develop this game means far more to me than money, but unfortunately we live in a world where you have to pay to be alive.
Don't forget I give away my latest content for free when it's time to update the pubic build. I could have charged $20 on Steam, but I made it free saying to myself "no, I already make a generous amount on Patreon". I am even toying with the idea of releasing the final version of the game for free, and completely open sourcing it for modders to take over. Patreon to me has always been a tip jar, donate if you like it or not, I don't give a shit.
I do read this forum, seeking out negative critique that I don't get on Patreon on Discord because believe it or not I care about feedback. However, what no one understands is how difficult it is for a developer to please everyone.
Ask 10 people what they want out of this game and you will get back 100 different answers, some of which clash and cannot mutually exist.
This response is to set the record straight. I work on this game night and day, development is slower now because the code has reached a point where I can't just add things willy nilly without consequences. The last few engine versions have not been very good, and I have been chasing down bugs. There is so much more that goes into each build than what's on the release notes. I write this game from scratch in C++, by myself, in addition to making most of the art.
There is a curse with breeding games, and it's not lazy developers. It's the harsh reality of having to deal with making hundreds of thousands of animations for just a small set of races. Admittedly, I was not prepared for dealing with that when I first started this game. I decided to impose harsh restrictions to enable animation sharing, and it is the only reason this game exists.
It's fine that there is harsh criticism here, but please keep it constructive and don't spread lies about my character as a developer. I have never been out to scam anyone, having the freedom to develop this game means far more to me than money, but unfortunately we live in a world where you have to pay to be alive.
Don't forget I give away my latest content for free when it's time to update the pubic build. I could have charged $20 on Steam, but I made it free saying to myself "no, I already make a generous amount on Patreon". I am even toying with the idea of releasing the final version of the game for free, and completely open sourcing it for modders to take over. Patreon to me has always been a tip jar, donate if you like it or not, I don't give a shit.
"I do read this forum, seeking out negative critique", but complains about people bitching and moaning in the first sentence.
I have an issue with this because as far as I can tell, you working on this project alone is a self imposed limitation, not a money limitation or anything. So it's kind of weird to be proudly proclaiming you work on the project alone while it sees little progress, even by your own admittance. Most of the people talking about slow progress here are blaming you working on the project alone after all. I don't think anybody expects a single person to do much better, so you're a bit off base there.
Well to be clear/devils advocate here, you don't need to set out to scam anybody to scam them. Nobody is the bad guy in their own mind. But there sure are a lot of shitty people in the world who make excuses for why their behavior is okay, right? At the end of the day, are you living up to your promises (Rhetorical question here)? That's what matters.
Oh wow, we should all bow before your greatness/generosity huh.
I've gotta say overall, I wouldn't rate your "character" very highly after this post. You spent a lot of time talking about how difficult things are for you, and insulting people criticizing your game. Then you try to add in how generous and wonderful you are with the final message. You proved the people attacking your character right with this post. This was your chance to be like "Sorry I fucked up" and talk about how you'll do better, but all I'm seeing is "My life is so hard" and no mention of you taking/talking about any action to quicken the progress of the game.
TLDR: You posted here just to attack people and try to garner sympathy from those same people in the same damn message.
Constructive criticism time:
What you just did was the opposite of what you should be trying to do as a game developer. The only part of your message that was potentially useful to anybody that had concerns about you and the game development is when you said "Admittedly, I was not prepared for dealing with that when I first started this game." Focus more on that, but do it with stuff that we actually have concerns about right now. And then don't just stop at mentioning issues, talk about how you plan to fix them. If you're not capable of fixing them, then the people with those concerns could be on to something huh?
The next time you post here if you're game, I recommend you try to ease concerns, not reinforce them or create new ones. I'm actually pretty surprised you'd post a message like this here. I'll try to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're having a bad day, cause this post was just a bad idea all around. Like, it's shockingly easy to pacify people here, but you did pretty much nothing to ease tensions, actually I feel like you've made things worse.
What part of this message was supposed to garner a healthier relationship/dialogue between people here? We all know game development is hard, we all know you're working on the project alone. Most the people with concerns here are well aware of those things. You didn't really address any of the actual issues with this post. What was your goal? To be understood? Mentioning things we already know.
Try understanding your fanbase. If you want people to be understanding of your problems, be understanding of theirs. You have the power, you have the responsibility to start things off right. What's easier/more realistic, a legion of people all behaving well or one developer behaving well? This is the pace you just set for conversation here. My response could have been completely different if your message was different.
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Oh Mr Dev so you were here well let me give you that constructive criticism you are looking for. About this part instead of asking what people want, why not come up with an idea, ask a dichotomous question and proceed with the winning answer simple as that but who cares about feedback from here we are not patrons so you will not take this into account
Iirc you are working alone in this project by self-imposition alluding to the problem that the "breeding season"(i dont remember the name :V) team had so in this section you have to accept the criticism of slow advances for not wanting to compartmentalize the development of the game.
Well here is the only way where the not patrons can throw shit and not be banned for writing criticism and not praise you blindly like on your discord channel
You contradict yourself with the previous paragraph "but unfortunately we live in a world where you have to pay to be alive." charge on Steam that it doesn't matter here
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- May 2, 2019
- 6
- 68
No one should feel attacked or insulted by anything I wrote. I am not here to fight with anyone. My posts are not meant to be harsh, and they are only for me to get a better understanding of why many have felt to need to go so far as to label me lazy, incapable, and a scammer.
I meant it when I said I come here to read alternative opinions. I thrive off of negative criticism, and it's welcome just as much as praise. It's the not the bitching and moaning itself, but the contradiction of demanding gameplay and then hating builds that add it. You can imagine how frustrating that is to read.
No one has ever been banned on my Discord for negative feedback, and never will. That's entirely made up.
You are correct, I choose to work alone. Hiring people is not some magical switch you can flip to make your game get done faster. It comes with a ton of drama, excuses, and low quality work. Rather than develop the game, I would spend most of my time babysitting a team of subpar individuals looking to milk as much out of me as they possibly can. And that's the typical scenario, it could end up worse like Breeding Season.
You seem to have something against solo developers specifically. Perhaps others are what you claim, but it's invalid to slap those labels on all of us. Speaking for myself, and from the heart, I expect no one to bow to any aspect of me, or my philosophies. The Steam example was used only to show that I'm not all about the damn money. If that were the case, things would be very different.
Are there things I could do better? Absolutely. Have mistakes been made? You know it. However this idea that I am lazy, and a scammer is baseless.
What I read here screams of not knowing a damn thing about game development. You don't just download things off of the marketplace and tick a few boxes in the editor, it's full blown software engineering. It takes time, a lot of time.
I meant it when I said I come here to read alternative opinions. I thrive off of negative criticism, and it's welcome just as much as praise. It's the not the bitching and moaning itself, but the contradiction of demanding gameplay and then hating builds that add it. You can imagine how frustrating that is to read.
No one has ever been banned on my Discord for negative feedback, and never will. That's entirely made up.
You are correct, I choose to work alone. Hiring people is not some magical switch you can flip to make your game get done faster. It comes with a ton of drama, excuses, and low quality work. Rather than develop the game, I would spend most of my time babysitting a team of subpar individuals looking to milk as much out of me as they possibly can. And that's the typical scenario, it could end up worse like Breeding Season.
You seem to have something against solo developers specifically. Perhaps others are what you claim, but it's invalid to slap those labels on all of us. Speaking for myself, and from the heart, I expect no one to bow to any aspect of me, or my philosophies. The Steam example was used only to show that I'm not all about the damn money. If that were the case, things would be very different.
Are there things I could do better? Absolutely. Have mistakes been made? You know it. However this idea that I am lazy, and a scammer is baseless.
What I read here screams of not knowing a damn thing about game development. You don't just download things off of the marketplace and tick a few boxes in the editor, it's full blown software engineering. It takes time, a lot of time.
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Wow that underlined bit sounds familiar. Sounds like the usual Patreon business model.
And I don't have a problem with solo developers specifically. I do have a problem with solo developers that want to be praised for being solo developers though. Reminds me of the people who choose to have children, and then expect special privileges and to be praised for raising children even though it was their choice. If you wanna go solo, that's fine, just don't expect a parade, at least not until you're done. During development people will wish you'd hire more people, and that's a justifiable opinion.
Anyways I'm getting sleepy and I'll be too cranky to respond properly anymore, I'll have to chill till tomorrow, lol.
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In terms of constructive criticism, I can tell you outright why most people are complaining about a lack of gameplay:
This game lacks a core feedback loop. There is no notable reward or even change for most of the things you do. The introductory NPC never returns to town, you never develop relationships with other NPCs, and the only reward for bringing home new nephelym is the ability to ogle them, milk them, and breed them, all of which are limited scope situations that rapidly become tedious.
In terms of potential fixes, that's mostly up to you. For relationships, you already have a dialogue system in place, so it would just need a data tracking back end and character writing that feels at least vaguely meaningful. In terms of impact for work, this is potentially one of the simplest things you could do. It could be made more complex with a schedule system, wandering, etc., but that's not strictly necessary to give the player cause to interact with the NPCs more. Rewarding the player who manages a relationship could involve things like discounts at shops, new animations (which are certainly a lot of work, I'm aware), and possibly even showing up on your farm/outright living with you eventually.
Regarding the nephelym you bring home to the farm, that's a thorny issue of its own. Improvements to that lack of reward could involve allowing some to wander the farm, potentially at the player's discretion, and allowing for more interactions between the player and their nephelym. I'd suggest allowing them to help at the farm, but the game's lore doesn't allow for that as it is.
Something a great many players have complained about, repeatedly, is the lack of varied body models and animations. The lack of models is a misguided complaint - it would potentially be more efficient to operate on a bethesda-styled system where you have varied (and more finely controlled) morphs of the same base model (a la CBBE and related bodies for Skyrim/FO4, with trait-based morphs dynamically applied on top as the game already does) sharing the same skeleton. Their complaint largely boils down to the current base model not being utilized to its full potential.
Obviously, creating new feral morphs requires a great deal of modeling work, and depending on how you do it, some animation work as well. That makes any new feral morph a longer term project that will impact further development elsewhere.
Animations are, unfortunately, an unfixable issue. Or, more accurately: the fix is complex and mostly boils down to creating different animations tuned to different scale combinations. There is no reasonable way to make a one-size-fits-all animation for this game, and so the best you can hope for is, as you've been doing, slowly adding variations and sub-variations depending on differences in scale. This obviously takes time and effort, and like adding new ferals, would result in an "empty" feeling update where players complain you aren't doing anything.
Overall, you're kind of in a terrible spot. Anything you do at this point will result in complaints, because updating and addressing some complaints leave other players feeling left out. As a developer, I'd personally be spending my time working on smoothing out the current content prior to implementing anything new, but it is not my place to dictate where you spend your development time.
This game lacks a core feedback loop. There is no notable reward or even change for most of the things you do. The introductory NPC never returns to town, you never develop relationships with other NPCs, and the only reward for bringing home new nephelym is the ability to ogle them, milk them, and breed them, all of which are limited scope situations that rapidly become tedious.
In terms of potential fixes, that's mostly up to you. For relationships, you already have a dialogue system in place, so it would just need a data tracking back end and character writing that feels at least vaguely meaningful. In terms of impact for work, this is potentially one of the simplest things you could do. It could be made more complex with a schedule system, wandering, etc., but that's not strictly necessary to give the player cause to interact with the NPCs more. Rewarding the player who manages a relationship could involve things like discounts at shops, new animations (which are certainly a lot of work, I'm aware), and possibly even showing up on your farm/outright living with you eventually.
Regarding the nephelym you bring home to the farm, that's a thorny issue of its own. Improvements to that lack of reward could involve allowing some to wander the farm, potentially at the player's discretion, and allowing for more interactions between the player and their nephelym. I'd suggest allowing them to help at the farm, but the game's lore doesn't allow for that as it is.
Something a great many players have complained about, repeatedly, is the lack of varied body models and animations. The lack of models is a misguided complaint - it would potentially be more efficient to operate on a bethesda-styled system where you have varied (and more finely controlled) morphs of the same base model (a la CBBE and related bodies for Skyrim/FO4, with trait-based morphs dynamically applied on top as the game already does) sharing the same skeleton. Their complaint largely boils down to the current base model not being utilized to its full potential.
Obviously, creating new feral morphs requires a great deal of modeling work, and depending on how you do it, some animation work as well. That makes any new feral morph a longer term project that will impact further development elsewhere.
Animations are, unfortunately, an unfixable issue. Or, more accurately: the fix is complex and mostly boils down to creating different animations tuned to different scale combinations. There is no reasonable way to make a one-size-fits-all animation for this game, and so the best you can hope for is, as you've been doing, slowly adding variations and sub-variations depending on differences in scale. This obviously takes time and effort, and like adding new ferals, would result in an "empty" feeling update where players complain you aren't doing anything.
Overall, you're kind of in a terrible spot. Anything you do at this point will result in complaints, because updating and addressing some complaints leave other players feeling left out. As a developer, I'd personally be spending my time working on smoothing out the current content prior to implementing anything new, but it is not my place to dictate where you spend your development time.
- Dec 29, 2018
- 449
- 865
In every thread for popular games there are people, who claim that devs are lazy and scammers, rarely it's true. Just ignore them.
As for harsh critique, it feels like you are a seriously lost on what to do next.
Some time ago I did some brain storming, just to think what can be done about BotN to make it more gamey, here: https://f95zone.to/threads/breeders...a-derelicthelmsman.2483/page-234#post-3300055
And there is some discussion after that.
p.s. Fall damage...why...?
I'm glad to see you read the forum here Derelict, you've made a great game. I don't think anyone can accuse you of being lazy with the massive amount of work that has gone in to BotN, but I do agree that the development is suffering right now.
I was a Patreon of yours for a little over half a year, but decided to stop supporting at the end of May because I felt like there was no direction to development. Features were being added here and there, but I never saw any real plan to address the lack of core gameplay loop.
Then decisions like locking animations behind the new currency and implementing fall damage were also bad for gameplay. In a game where the only thing to do is sex everything, implementing mechanics that prevent you from accessing the only gameplay for no reward is not a good idea. I actually like the idea of being able to learn new positions from an NPC, even building a quest structure around them. But that needs to be a fully fleshed out game mechanic, and right now it's just an arbitrary barrier.
And why bother with fall damage? There are no enemies to run away from, or survival aspects that require you take care of your character, it doesn't fit in the game as it is. All it does is make navigating certain parts of the map more annoying (such as town down to your farm).
It sounds like you've hit the real limit of game development at this scale, which is man hours. It doesn't matter how good or efficient a developer you are, work takes time, and there are only so many hours a day you can contribute. The only way BotN can fully realize it's potential at this point is with a team of developers. If you really don't want to involve anyone else, I would recommend severely limiting the scope of what you work on, and picking specific features to fully develop before moving to something else.
Anyway, you've made a great game. Better than 99% of any other developers by yourself, and I wish you good luck continuing it's development.
- May 2, 2019
- 6
- 68
Thank you for the constructive feedback.
Falene will move in the next build, after conditions are met. None of the backend for that existed in 0.737, so that's why the current build is taking extra time. NPCs now store their state, and will react to recently having had sex with the player. In addition, the entire world can be affected by this state now.
My current focus for the next many builds is game progression. I want each area to be unlocked by fulfilling conditions around the world, fall damage was necessary to prevent access to areas like Moaning Crag far ahead of when it would be open.
Morphs driving a single mesh is how it works now. In fact, CBBE BodySlide was a huge inspiration for my character creator. This is cool because it allows players to customize the shapes as they see fit, though it does introduce animation clipping for more extreme body shapes.
This is the exact thing I am working on for 0.738. Slowly I have been laying the groundwork for this with buying sex positions, which is one attempt to reward the player for breeding the best Nephelym. It's far from finished, but that's the goal.
Falene will move in the next build, after conditions are met. None of the backend for that existed in 0.737, so that's why the current build is taking extra time. NPCs now store their state, and will react to recently having had sex with the player. In addition, the entire world can be affected by this state now.
My current focus for the next many builds is game progression. I want each area to be unlocked by fulfilling conditions around the world, fall damage was necessary to prevent access to areas like Moaning Crag far ahead of when it would be open.
I understand this complaint. The artist side of me hates the shared mesh system, but it is the best solution. Especially for a breeding game, where the benefits of sharing a mesh and animations are enormous.
Morphs driving a single mesh is how it works now. In fact, CBBE BodySlide was a huge inspiration for my character creator. This is cool because it allows players to customize the shapes as they see fit, though it does introduce animation clipping for more extreme body shapes.
Well, I know what I want to do for the game. I am lost on trying to figure out what my players want. As mentioned before it's impossible to please everyone, but it appears there are two camps. One that wants more gameplay, and another that only wants me to focus on the sex sandbox.
My development strategy is many small frequent builds, all working toward a larger goal. Only recently did I start focusing on gameplay outside of breeding though.
Fall damage is necessary to prevent access to areas until they are unlocked. It will make sense when the content is implemented to unlock each area, which I am working on now. It would be pointless to block off Pleasure Pastures if you could just jump down the cliff to get there.
Thank you for your replies. I'm glad to see you have a plan for what all these features are building towards. I like the idea of adding more meaning to exploring / unlocking the world, but would again caution on how you implement it. If pleasure pastures is suddenly walled off without a compelling new gameplay reason to unlock it (not just farming some resource or paying to open it) then it will feel like more of the existing game is being cut than anything new is being added.
I will keep an eye out for the next update and seriously consider restarting my support then.
- Aug 12, 2017
- 38
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Hey Dev,
Cool to see you on the forum. First and foremost I want to say thanks for the game. I was heartbroken with what happened with breeding season and your game filled the gap so to speak. I've never been a patron, but i'd be glad to buy the game or make a one time donation if you do indeed not charge for the final version.
Most of us here like to bitch and moan but few and far in between would discount what an great job you do. We bitch because we care because what you have made is awesome, especially for just an Alpha. There are always those who will want more and nitpick and throw shade. Just ignore them.
Your models, textures and animations are all excellent. Love all the different races you've added. I disagree with the fact that people think there isn't enough body variation. Clipping drives me crazy so the shared skeleton that I assume you use for each size variant is a great idea. Once you've added more to the core mechanics of the game to increase the overall experience i think it will be even more amazing.
A few suggestions that I would make after reading what has already been written are to invest even more in the Currency mechanic to reinforce the work and reward system. Earning shineys to buy sex animations was a good call, and if you are to continue that with unlocking areas or maybe even unlocking special skins or the ability to breed certain subtypes, then it will give players goal to work towards instead of just being given everything. Using the loyalty meter to have the nephilim produce more/better products and progeny would be another layer to add. WIth the blessed ones you could use repeated dialog events to raise their loyalty and unlock special features or items they can give you as well as maybe a lovers animation. Also the ability to purchase more barn capacity and an upgrade to be able to sort by colors or traits would be great.
Finally two observations i've made while playing. There is a weird protrusion in your mesh between the vagina and the anus on most models from a rogue vertice or maybe the weight system. Also in the lustwood the lag issues have been greatly reduced, however i noticed that there is a pool of water underneath the terrain that has nothing to do with the river? Could that be using some resources and is it there for a reason?
Much respect, thanks again for the game and keep working on it.
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- Aug 12, 2017
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Dude, you fuckin rock. Char presents work great, offspring don't seem to inherit some though. Maybe i'll mess around with the color tags to see if that fixes it. How does that even work between races? Are the unwraps for the textures the same or did you have to edit them to make it work properly?
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- Oct 25, 2017
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No offense, but this makes it sound like there's no one competent and that anyone you hire will try to scam you and require babysitting. How can you have such a negative opinion, and then onder why poeple have a negative opinnion about patreon devs (or you in particular).
If you are convinced any helper will scam you and be incompetent, then people can easily belive the same about you.
And yes, the gameplay is shallow. I don't consider unlocking sex positions a good mechanic, more like grind. It's not like the position add or change anything mechanically.
Make stats/traits have actual impact. Make breeding actually matter - inheritance of body parts, looks, colors. Then we can talk.
- Dec 29, 2018
- 449
- 865
Should it matter that much? Develop your game as you want and then gather feedback and adjust, release to release. It was obvious, the moment when you moved to community "wants", but away from steady gameplay development. Now it feels like you're getting back on track.
IMO, you are a bit too early in development to take community suggestions THIS seriously.
Always like that, good lewd games will always be plagued by fapers who want galleries without gameplay, and good sex sims will always be boring if you aren't into spending hours of your life building that perfect scene only to realise that it's morning already and you are too tired to be horny.
Sex is incredibly boring to be a centerpiece of design in a proper game, it should be a tool, high quality, but just a tool, one of several, develop tools first, poses and other "RGB Lighting" comes after.
p.s. How about paid "Supporter DLC" on steam or something like that? Maybe like Hunt and Snare devs do, release from Patreon comes to steam a week or two later, with additional fixes if needed. Not a fan of Patreon, but buying lewd games on steam regularly. And it's just handy to have updates automatically delivered.
I know "donate if you like it or not, I don't give a shit", but ending up with more money is better than with less, especially if people are willing to.
Was gunna say something similar to this the other day but figured I'd said enough and should sleep first, thanks for bringing this up. My message probably wouldn't have been as polite by that point : p
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- Dec 28, 2017
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I really like your work and I congratulate you I do not complain or anything I only support you even in patreon but with another name do not take the toxic and insulting comments I just wanted to congratulate you on your work even though I only have an opinion of the hybrids it should look more like Lizard man or gargolas or that my opinion but still relax and do not take your work very difficult since it is not good to stress for people who do not deserve your work and I do not speak English well in case you see bad words I use the translator
