Yes, this is exactly what I mean by players not liking the changes. Content is first released as freely available, then gets locked behind unlocks. This makes perfect sense for testing purposes, but players feel that their stuff gets taken away.
Unreal Engine Breeders of the Nephelym [v0.761.6] [DerelictHelmsman]
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mckHH
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this is extremely true, I know of an old patreon that used to belong to a group called cowchop that got converted to a new and defunct group by one guy called muscle party, which has been inactive for years now and still rakes in over 200bucks a month because of the old subscribers of the cowchop, for a total of 6-7 years
RubyZeronyka
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How in the world does that makes perfect sense? If you add new quests to do, that is supposed to bring you something NEW as a reward in order for you to get invested in doing the new stuff for. That's basically the reason on why you would want to do the new quest at all on the first place. The vast majority of developers and studios when they update their games with new content, that is usually how they do it and is for a reason. You have new content available but that requires you to do something new to access, well, the NEW content.
In the case of BotN, let's see the changes and why the way they were added felt like a fukedupery:
- Added Pawsmatti with the sex positions learning system. Dev only added ONE new sex position and locked being a fukton of grind having to learn how to do doggy, missionary, cowgirl.... Yet somehow the player is perfectly capable of doing those on wild sex, but on the breeding yard? Yeah, that you have to learn. System would be amazing if we kept all the OG positions and had to learn the Lap Dance one, it would feel lacking to only have ONE single new sex position but I bet NOBODY would complain on the system being in place. Hell, if the dev actually cared he could have left the OG positions the way they were and unlock the new pairings he added later, which felt like NEW content cause certain pairings couldn't do Missionary at first but then all pairings were able. If dev actually cared he would have taken advantage of that but he didn't and just slapped the grind on.
- Added the Reaper system so you couldn't jump from the Hivelands to the Moaning Crag, basically preventing you to explore areas you are not supposed to reach before the intended time. Again, that system would be amazing if the inaccesible areas were NEW ones, like for example having a lava lake in there that has island that is inaccesible until you do the quests and unlike before you can't swim on lava precisely cause that would grant you access. Did dev do that? No, he locked behind hours or days IRL of grind to get to the demons area which before you could access from minute 1. Now unlocking demons don't feel like something nice as it did before, it feels like a headaching incovenience that nobody asked for and the only new area he added was the seraphim heavens which he announced a while ago he had plans to do so and nobody complained, until he started with the cockblock gates which meant locking them so having seraphins being moved felt like an extra grind. Sure, he made the bunnies to be something you could unlock and interact with on minute 1 but placed them in such an unthinkable place for the player to explore that many miss them entirely cause simply nobody would naturally go down a river expecting to find a new species appearing in there.
And I could go on but don't feel like turning this into a bigger textwall, if you wanna have something being tested or changed in the base progression at least you don't become a dick and let save files to carry over versions. So if you have a file with dragons you make the file to work on newer versions not forcing players to start over because your dickheadedness can't work with the idea of players not wanting to test mandatorily the new shit you're forcing them to do if they start a new playthrough, but no. Of all games I have played, both indie and studio made, BotN is the only one in which previous saves refuse to load on newer versions, also happens to be the only one in which newer saves load perfectly fine on older game versions without things getting corrupted the fuck up lol.
RubyZeronyka
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Which has been precisely my main point of criticism with BotN since I started playing it and noticed the fetish this dev has for making his playerbase to suffer by making them grind for ages to get nothing new. He adds a couple of nice things to then lock one of them and another 10 already existing ones from before behind some extra grind that nobody asked for, nobody needs, nobody wants and makes the game actually a boring thing to put yourself to "play". Frankly if he has so much time to add the stupid progression BS he has time to add meaningful NEW content to justify having to do the grind for. Like that bloody Pride quest which is hard AF to pull but hey, that in a way feels like something NEW. Pride is there and she won't have sex with you until you give her a demon that is hard as balls to get but at least is a grind you get to smash some NEW booty you know. I find that quest way too grindy to be worthy, specially for how despicable Pride is personality wise, but that's just me having frictions with that personality, not something I find genuinely bad XD
But bruh, locking my beloved dragongirls behind having the please that stupid centaur girl by giving her a special warg? FUKOFF! I would be delighted to do that quest if she was guarding that lower area because somehow there a new variant of dragons started to spawn and she guarded those dragon variants cause they were special somehow. IDK, it would feel like it was worth doing that quest for while still having the previously available dragons still being there.
Honestly, I don't understand the neverending rants about the "hours of added grind" and "locked content".
I, personally, completed that quest chain twice, it was enough to fully enjoy it, and never try it again.
Just enter the cheats ("imma lazy sack", "all barns", "all sex positions" etc), and you are fine, and ready to do whatever you please. So, what's the problem?
RubyZeronyka
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The fact that THAT cheat basically makes content that was worth doing the initial "grind" to be skipped for starters? Before I didn't had to skip the base progression to access some stuff so it was worth seeing Fern grow into a full Alraune, specially having her grow from phase 1 to phase 2, then phase 3 in which she's a full grown one, the "imma lazy sack" cheat (which btw, such a nice name huh) basically skips the whole phase 2 of Fern. Not to mention that makes the interactions with any character added in that meanwhile pointless. Like before you had to sex Neela each time you wanted to activate a portal. By adding that cheat you basically have no reason to sex her anymore. Sure that's a way to play that basically half the players have to do now so they can at least enjoy the game, but it makes it feel extremely hollow in comparison as before. And even then there's still a big ass problem those cheats do not happen to be able to fix and it's the saves compatibility ones.Honestly, I don't understand the neverending rants about the "hours of added grind" and "locked content".
I, personally, completed that quest chain twice, it was enough to fully enjoy it, and never try it again.
Just enter the cheats ("imma lazy sack", "all barns", "all sex positions" etc), and you are fine, and ready to do whatever you please. So, what's the problem?
Let me illustrate on why. When you're trying to get a specific hybrid, it takes a bunch of tries to get the right one, one that is unique, then you wanna have those ones carried into a new update but guess what? You don't have a compatible save so you need to start things all over again until they reach the point you were, and even then, if you happen to capture the exact same variants that gave you the hybrids you liked, you still have to deal with that process which at best and cheating like crazy still takes a couple of hours to do so for every single save. Is a way to do things? Sure. But still one that yes or yes takes time and GRIIIIIND. What some people that still praise BotN don't fukin get is that even with cheats you can't solve the grind issue for the main reason that the dev wants to force you to grind one way or another and just added the cheats so people won't ditch the game entirely out of boredom to get to the nice parts that many are willing to pay for.
This whole situation only got alleviated a bit with the introduction of the gallery, and still the same base problem persists. The game by design was grindy, sure, breeding by logical reasoning is in a way a grind, but precisely because of that the grind should be something that at least it would be worth spending time on. Instead you end up having to hoard game versions just so you can keep playing your old saves or.... Start all over again and even with cheats having to GRIND your save file to get to the point you were before. Do you get why people complain about the grind now?
It is not because of the nature of the game is grindy by design, but is because the dev forces you to deal with a needlessly augmented version of it that gets worse each update, in a game that has many questionable odd restrictions like no male on male content, no anal, no balls for futas, etc etc
DatWanGai
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- Apr 15, 2019
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Agree with everything you said, except this part. There's nothing questionably odd about this. It's just a matter of preference. I for one am not a fan of male on male, anal or balls on futa. If I was making a game:
Male on male - is a absolute turn off for me and 100% wouldn't be in the game unless it was added by a 3rd party and even then it'll be a maybe at most.
Futa - in itself is a neutral for me, but I prefer ball-less futa because futa with balls is visually a slight turn off. And in terms of content, I enjoy futa x female, am neutral with futa x futa, but male x futa is a slight turn off and futa x male is pretty much the same as male x male for me. Also, a "futa" without a vagina is just a male with breasts, brining this up as I see them more and more in Western H games over Eastern ones. Verdict, I'm not opposed to Futa in a game I make but it would be restricted in reflection of my preferences, unless again a 3rd party handles it.
Anal - This one is a bit tricky. I don't care for anal in the first place, even male x female. It's not a turn on, it's not a turn off, nor is it neutral like futa for me. With M x F, it's a "Ok, but why though?" thing. Futa x Futa, I see it the exact same as M x M so it's a turn off. Futa x F is the same as M x F. Male x Futa....is where my brain goes "How do I process this?" In same cases, my brain sees it the same as M x F and in others M x M. So the inclusion of anal in a game I'm making would be depending and again restricted.
Extra credit:
Feet focus - I hate feet, I find feet disgusting. There's a higher chance of you seeing M x M in a game I make than any feet related actions.
Groping/playing with body - On the other hand I absolutely love this, and it will 100% be in any game I make. Accidental groping, playful groping, romantic groping, malicious groping. If it fits, it'll be there.
Scat - Yeah, nah.
Guro - Yeah, nah.
And ALL of these decisions would be perfected fine since I would be the one putting in the time and energy to make the game, while the players have the choice to avoid stuff they don't like by simply avoiding it or playing another game. So long story short, there's nothing odd about making a game aligned with your personal preferences.
RubyZeronyka
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And normally that would be okey, the thing is that before there used to be options for some of those stuff. In fact males got a huge cut in variety while they didn't looked that bad frankly. Not to mention that Breeding Season, the game that Derelict took direct inspiration had stuff like that, both for male on male and female on female. Yet it took him a lot of updates to add the latter.
IDK, if I'm truly honest.... There are times in which I get the impression Derelict didn't made this game from the start but more like someone else did it, had a completely different vision and it was the time for Derelict to build a playerbase to start inserting his many biases and turning the game into something else entirely. Who did the OG version I cannot say but knowing that Drages helped him and that appearently wasn't the only dev that worked for real on BotN regardless how much Dere himself wants to claim he did this all on his own, makes me think that in reality he just took the work of someone else in some way and began updating it, adding stuff of his own with his limited skillset and removing the ones he didn't liked. Cause him claiming he did things from the start.... Things just don't add up to prove that with so many contradictions happening. And frankly the more that I think about this idea the more that it starts to make some shocking sense....
DatWanGai
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- Apr 15, 2019
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And....your point is what exactly? If I make a game directly inspired by another game, I am in no way or fashion obligated to include the same exact content as that game. It would still be MY game, using MY time and would be made towards MY preferences. Changing their mind partway through production is a half-assed action (one I called out various devs for) but it's still a choice they are completely allowed to make.
100% Derelict did not do this on his own, total bs if he's saying that but if he's the only one claiming the game then sadly he's totally free to change stuff and "insert his many biases", commonly referred to as "preferences", as he sees fit. That's just the truth of the matter.
RubyZeronyka
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Exactly and again I'm not saying there's something wrong with having preferences in design as a dev, I'm making a game myself and I'm already having clear certain things won't be there. What is definitely wrong is starting with one concept and changing it entirely mid development like he did to fit his needs when he should have done that from the start. Unless of course he took the work of someone else and he released his personal barely modified version to make some cash, then later on with more experience keeping just the things that pleased him while claiming he did everything from scratch all along like he's been saying since I knew the game existed. And again, just because they're allowed means they won't get endless backlash for it cause is deserved.
What surprises me is how many people are willing to defend that guy when he's been acting like asshat since a long time ago by doing almost nothing, taking the credit of the work of people like Drages that worked for him on the background doing all the basic clockwork for him and yet the game he made feels that mediocre. Cause sure, when you have no idea of game deving the work of Derelict (or the so called "work" he did on the game) feels impressive but with enough experience, assets, and people doing the dirty work for you, I bet you that you can make a porny Skyrim with more features than current modded Skyrim and will be more polished and feature complete than what this guy does. But hey, I guess people don't like that we state facts these days....
Game is A: free and B: alpha which generally means not even feature complete. So random changes based on developer whim is more or less what's on the tin. Also make a better game for free, then we will have two.
While I do agree with the sentiment, and it is free...
The entire project is mismanaged.
It needs a new developer plain and simple.
But why would that work? What method would a solo project be all, "Actually there is a change of solo developer" instead of just doing literally any other thing?
A lot.
It is a list.
A solo developer that...
... A lone mechanic fixing my car wants to be paid everyday that my car is in the shop.
He's not fixing it, but holding it and making small efforts to do the job required, just enough to satisfy my desire for my broken car.
Now, this is clearly my fault for choosing the mechanic, but at the same time, the mechanic is a drain on society.
I don't know how else to explain it without covering every aspect of management.
mckHH
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- Dec 27, 2018
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Free game is free.
You are complaining that the corner street performer's performance isn't worth the coins others are tossing.
Also what I meant was that as a solo developer, there is absolutely no way to compel that developer to do something else then what they want, other then throwing money at them I suppose, but it seems that doesn't work either so?
Are you suggesting someone just ponys up a lot of money to do a buyout or something? Which would be silly when they could instead just, you know, make another game instead.
Do not give the dev money if this game isn't what you want, but, I mean, otherwise it's a free game?
Now we are getting somewhere!
What do we do?
You acknowledge there is a problem.
Tell us what the solution is?
Is there any birthing scenes or any intent to or is it still just oh you gave birth off screen?