VN Ren'Py Abandoned Catching Heat [v0.5.0] [deepglugs]

caxhub

Engaged Member
Aug 22, 2019
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Download android v0.4.0 APK
P/s: Request Link Android Game at my
 
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deepglugs

Member
Game Developer
Feb 1, 2018
348
561
oh, so the package we download here is just a preview. altering the values doesn't do anything.
A cool concept, would be interesting to see a live version of the AI.
But yea that would require Gigs or at least a Dedicated Server.
I do have a server set up for live dialog generation. However, I haven't put it to production yet because doing so would limit the game's lifetime. Also it's hard to follow a set story when AI generates all the dialog. The other issue is latency. For larger models it can take several seconds (up to 20) to generate a single sentence and that's for just one player. Now imagine thousands of players at the same time and I think you get the point.

Images take a much shorter time to generate (1-2 images per second), but right now there's already a way to custom builds of the game via . However because of the compute costs custom builds are only available as a benefit for supporters. If people want to try it out though, I wouldn't mind making builds for them in low volume. I think the tags available to modify are limited, but that can be expanded if it's a feature people want.
 
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fzdc

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Jul 25, 2017
1,655
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I do have a server set up for live dialog generation. However, I haven't put it to production yet because doing so would limit the game's lifetime. Also it's hard to follow a set story when AI generates all the dialog. The other issue is latency. For larger models it can take several seconds (up to 20) to generate a single sentence and that's for just one player. Now imagine thousands of players at the same time and I think you get the point.

Images take a much shorter time to generate (1-2 images per second), but right now there's already a way to custom builds of the game via . However because of the compute costs custom builds are only available as a benefit for supporters. If people want to try it out though, I wouldn't mind making builds for them in low volume. I think the tags available to modify are limited, but that can be expanded if it's a feature people want.
i know what you mean. I've been a premium member at AIdungeon for a year now.
their AI used to be free and open to everyone, but as the website got more popular, they had to implement a premium version and a daily limit for Free users. I think it had around 1mil stories generated by that time.
 
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Raptus Puellae

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2020
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lookin at preview 5

glimpsing over the tag "monster girl"...

dear uploader, that's a dick move, they may not be the prettiest but I wouldn't call them monsters
 
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Vengel

Member
Oct 21, 2019
125
453
Yeahhh ...
First of all there is nothing neural in the computing neural networks ... scientist get's a real laugh when they hear about that. It's just some developers back in the days wanted so look and sound fancy. The same goes for the term AI - right now all it does is create "urban legends" and a lot of investments. There is no real AI ...
Second - the so called "AI generated" images based on templates and a lot of free flow painting approach are used by military and special services structures since ... forever. And they produce very very good images. Even 3D ...

You failed!
Move along!
 

Doragor

Member
Sep 9, 2018
215
528
It looks terrible and the text to speech makes it worse

The fact you used the same model and hair for all female characters doesn't help either.
 

Joeburqa

Member
Aug 4, 2019
278
733
Yeah, none of that makes it any better. Best to test things like this and improve them before releasing an inferior product. It's not really bragging if you're using awesome hardware/software to produce lesser content than the relatively inferior hardware/software can produce. I could potentially be a good football player but that potential is irrelevant in the real world. Potentially being able to create awesome things does not mean awesome things are created. All you did was confirm that it's better for content creators to stick with what actually works because advancements are not sufficient to justify the change.
that's a bad idea. if no one ever tried to do something that could potentially do better because it could also potentially fail all technological advancement would stop. there would never be anyone trying to push further because what we have now is acceptable. im not saying this looks good, but telling someone to stop trying to accomplish something else because you don't like it in its current form and to just stick to the status quo is very dumb.
 

Joeburqa

Member
Aug 4, 2019
278
733
It's a good analogy because potential without improvement is just that, potential. One can have potential all day but potential by itself means nothing. You clearly did not fully understand the analogy. I also didn't tell you to stop so don't put your misunderstandings on me. I meant exactly what I said so go back, read it again, and drop the bullshit passive aggressive stance. You're making improvements to the industry overall, cool, do you want a cookie for that? I'm gonna tell you like it is, it's not my fault if you don't like it. The visuals for your game suck. That's a fact not an opinion. I don't care if you like that or not and I'm clearly not the only one saying it. They will improve as the technology you're using improves. Cool. I didn't say I wouldn't keep an eye on it. If you're gonna tear at feedback just because you don't like the way it's presented then this isn't the forum for you and you're just gonna continue to get more and more salty as time advances. Actually, due to your whiny little attitude with your response to me, I could not give a flying fuck less about your game or your contributions to the industry. It's been doing just fine without you and it will continue to do so whether or not you passively fellate yourself over your work. Nobody is scared of honest feedback but most people definitely won't continue giving a toss about a dev who can't comprehend simple words. You clearly cannot handle brutally honest feedback appropriately and choose to make grievous misunderstandings the core of how you respond. I'm also not concerned with how little you'll be impacted by one person walking away. Respond to this or don't, I don't care, I won't be reading it anyway. Good bye!
"All you did was confirm that it's better for content creators to stick with what actually works because advancements are not sufficient to justify the change."

you literally said its better to stick to what is used already and advancements are not significant to justify the change. that sounds like telling someone to stop to me. way to cry over something you don't want to steal.
 
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drfronkonstinmd

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Game Developer
Apr 1, 2020
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Oh hey, what happened here?

Just to clarify things, the images are not dynamically generated. That would blow up the game to over 2gb with the AI models and renpy just barely supports python3. Instead, the images are generated during the game build process.

Yes, the graphics look bad. I've taken one of the state of the art AI networks and have been improving on it, but it's not there yet. On top of that, I've rendered my own dataset of nearly 40k images to help train the network. This is probably less than half of the number of images used to train networks like this, but new training techniques I've just adopted should help with that.

I expect things to get better over time. If you've followed the project since the beginning (almost a year now), you'll know it's come a long way and I'm extremely happy with the progress and the capabilities that the technology already has.

I appreciate the feedback on the story and for those brave enough to even try.
As a programmer myself, the concept is amazing. I can't wait to see what this kind of tech is able to do a few years from now. We've spent decades trying to get 3d models to a point of complexity where they look as close to humans as possible and suddenly stuff like the DeepFake algorythm is creating realistic looking moving faces in 48h of training. This is the first time I've seen AI applied to full bodies though.

I'll test the game tonight.
 
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JCosmic

Newbie
Jul 27, 2017
87
71
I thought I was in 1999, playing EQ again. For a second, I caught myself looking at the ground while moving so my 56K modem wouldn't melt, drop my connection and leave my character running into a wall for five minutes.

Before anything, I want to point out one considerable flaw in your pro football player analogy. You stated that they were able to become professional by performing at a professional level in the public eye. True. But what you're overlooking is the fact that they just didn't wake up one day, walk onto a pro football team and rush for 200 yards and 3 touchdowns. What isn't in the public eye is the amount of hard work and physical training which gets them to that level. Without it, they're sitting on the couch watching NFL Network on Sundays.

On a serious note, I work in technology too, enterprise infrastructure technology architecture specifically, so I understand the preface of AI, super computing, virtualization and building fiber networks for high bandwidth high resolution video monitoring and all that jazz. But this isn't Tron. I mean ...it's porn.

Is this just a hobby? If so, then hell yeah - knock yourself out man, revolutionize digital imaging as we know it. Passion is the father of invention. If this is just a passion, don't worry about the critics and do your thing. On the other hand, you have a Patreon page, and people are paying you money, so I would assume this is more than just a hobby, and you're actually trying to get people to fund this? When you cross that line, you inherit a whole slew of expectations because you're selling a product. You have investors.

I've read your super resolution article and perused your project page and even though I think it's cool as hell, I still don't understand the allure. Here's why. You're trying to create (and sell) something that appeals to human beings on a sexual level ...that isn't made by human beings. We're not talking about cars coming off an assembly line, bots crawling the web for marketing revenue or any sort of automation-based production. This is sex. You're trying to sell a sex game, right? Sure, I do understand part of your efforts are for helping digital creators make content in a more conducive fashion, but I can't help but think that you're jumping the shark. It's like the PC hardware revolution a dozen years ago. Dudes building $4000 gaming PCs to run DX9 games that an e-Machine from Best Buy could run with ease at the same max resolution. I was one of those idiots.

I like what you're trying to do, and I wish you the best of luck. I do. Don't stop, man. But personally, I think you're putting the cart waaay before the horse here, and putting all your effort into minimizing the human aspect of erotic games, something that - in my opinion - will always need to have an extensive amount human involvement (including creativity and artistry) if it's going to be any good. Perhaps there is some other application where this would be better suited?

JC
 
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deepglugs

Member
Game Developer
Feb 1, 2018
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Second - the so called "AI generated" images based on templates and a lot of free flow painting approach are used by military and special services structures since ... forever. And they produce very very good images. Even 3D
Citation? Would love to see a 1858 example of a machine taking a stick pose and turning it into a human with tuneable parameters such as hair color, clothing, and even sex. Maybe something from the 90's if you can't go back that far?
 

deepglugs

Member
Game Developer
Feb 1, 2018
348
561
It looks terrible and the text to speech makes it worse

The fact you used the same model and hair for all female characters doesn't help either.
What didn't you like about the speech? Lack of emotion? The goal behind the single female character was to first make the technology work for one character. Once that was proven I added a few more models to the training set and finally added male models. Start small, scale up, prove each step.
 

deepglugs

Member
Game Developer
Feb 1, 2018
348
561
I've read your super resolution article and perused your project page and even though I think it's cool as hell, I still don't understand the allure. Here's why. You're trying to create (and sell) something that appeals to human beings on a sexual level ...that isn't made by human beings.
First, I super appreciate what you've said. The goal was to use AI as a tool like blender/DAZ studio/MSPaint to produce a vision and to tell a story. Hopefully, the tool, in the long run, would make it faster to produce images for VNs. I believe that this tool could be capable of delivering the vision in a way that humans can connect with the story in a deeply human way but CH is probable not it. Like an aspiring pro-football player, I've worked hard to try to tell my stories and to build the AI tools to help with the visual and audible part of the story-telling. I'm probably not going to make the NFL with CH, and I'm okay with that.

I understand that it is HIGHLY unusual for someone in this particular space to openly accept support for research and experimental products. I've been as transparent as I know how to be about the nature of what CH is and isn't. It definitely isn't a sex-game. It's not the intended adult visual-novel in graphics for the most part. Only with 0.5 is it anything more lewd visually than a rated R movie, but that's only if you really use your imagination. CH is a prototype vehicle. It's Elon's Starship. It is, in may ways, designed to fail hard and fail often (but without exciting explosions).

I'm okay with the outcome and feedback from CH. It was a fun project and I learned a lot that I've already applied to Euryale's Gambit and hopefully future stories. I got to meet tons of really-cool and really talented people who have helped contribute to this project directly or indirectly. That alone has almost made the hard work and personal expense worth it.

0.5 may be the last release of CH in this form. This type of work is kinda like my experiments with bitcoin: a couple years too early. I'm working on getting the important parts of the story into Euryale's Gambit.
 
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cewa

Newbie
May 9, 2018
23
24
Really cool concept but I think I'll hold off on trying it until the images the AI can generate are a little more passable
 
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JCosmic

Newbie
Jul 27, 2017
87
71
First, I super appreciate what you've said. The goal was to use AI as a tool like blender/DAZ studio/MSPaint to produce a vision and to tell a story. Hopefully, the tool, in the long run, would make it faster to produce images for VNs. I believe that this tool could be capable of delivering the vision in a way that humans can connect with the story in a deeply human way but CH is probable not it. Like an aspiring pro-football player, I've worked hard to try to tell my stories and to build the AI tools to help with the visual and audible part of the story-telling. I'm probably not going to make the NFL with CH, and I'm okay with that.

I understand that it is HIGHLY unusual for someone in this particular space to openly accept support for research and experimental products. I've been as transparent as I know how to be about the nature of what CH is and isn't. It definitely isn't a sex-game. It's not the intended adult visual-novel in graphics for the most part. Only with 0.5 is it anything more lewd visually than a rated R movie, but that's only if you really use your imagination. CH is a prototype vehicle. It's Elon's Starship. It is, in may ways, designed to fail hard and fail often (but without exciting explosions).

I'm okay with the outcome and feedback from CH. It was a fun project and I learned a lot that I've already applied to Euryale's Gambit and hopefully future stories. I got to meet tons of really-cool and really talented people who have helped contribute to this project directly or indirectly. That alone has almost made the hard work and personal expense worth it.

0.5 may be the last release of CH in this form. This type of work is kinda like my experiments with bitcoin: a couple years too early. I'm working on getting the important parts of the story into Euryale's Gambit.
I gotcha. Thanks for the clarity. I was totally onboard with this until I saw the Patreon page. That's when I started rolling my eyes. I thought, "Oh, another snake oil salesman." Working in technology infrastructure, I see it daily and it's annoying as all hell. Managed Service Providers constantly trying to pawn off "the next big thing" in security, networking or whatever, when in reality, all it really is, is re-branded processed cheese.

I was able to gain an appreciation for what you are trying to do after I delved into it a bit, but the thought that someone was trying to get other people to pay for an AI created sex game that was in dire need of improvement kept nagging at me. I thought it was highly unusual and incredibly suspect. It reeked of yet another "developer" trying to sell fool's gold, and writing it off like some huge revolutionary breakthrough in erotic entertainment.

I'm happy that's not the case. Good luck, man!

JC
 
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