VN Ren'Py Completed City of Broken Dreamers [v1.15.0 Ch. 15] [PhillyGames]

[RC-1138 Boss]

Going to annoy people with my updated version too.

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[beef-devourer]

The scene with Shanlon and Teri was outrageously long, and half of it could have been devoted to another scene with another girl; sex with Venus is tiresome and boring, enough of that please;
Sorry, I needed it off my chest. I'd been holding it for a long time.

I dare to revise this point: the scene with Shanlon was not really long, keeping in mind it was just her second scene.

The scene with Teri, a new chick, was long indeed. So long that we can lose the lewd action with Shanlon. The length might have been justified by Teri's importance for the story but who is she from both Jake's (protagonist's) and our (spectator's) standpoint - a one-off gratuitous and purposeless fuckmeat dropping out of nowhere. While Shanlon is a major story driver, Teri is a dispensable character. I forecast we will run into Teri again in the forthcoming chapter and our experience will be comparable to the Krista lewd scene. I'd be happy to be wrong.

Although I think that Teri, as opposed to Venus, can be endowed with a plot value and her scene length imbalance will be fixed. For example: Teri's kinship ties with Meredith could be revealed during a plot twist and this will affect the later chapters outcomes based on RPs with her. They even share a similar appearance so that twist won't look flimsy like an afterthought. But I doubt Philly will perform something like this.

As for Venus, I think I can strengthen your and my frustration by example:
Let's compare Shanlon's number of both lewd and non-lewd scenes with the number of Venus and then take into account the difference between S and V from the story importance point of view. Damn the results are really masochistically frustrating
I hope Philly will revise this flawed approach.

I could ask for less unnecessary cinematic scenes and more sex scenes and animations, but that's my personal preference and I wouldn't want it to seem like I'm trying to impose myself.

Do you mean occasional non-lewd animations of characters like with Katie at the very beginning or non-character ambient animations related to the city view, buildings, vehicle rides etc.?

 

[mr.AwesomeGameTaste]

I dare to revise this point: the scene with Shanlon was not really long, keeping in mind it was just her second scene.

The scene with Teri, a new chick, was long indeed. So long that we can lose the lewd action with Shanlon. The length might have been justified by Teri's importance for the story but who is she from both Jake's (protagonist's) and our (spectator's) standpoint - a one-off gratuitous and purposeless fuckmeat dropping out of nowhere. While Shanlon is a major story driver, Teri is a dispensable character. I forecast we will run into Teri again in the forthcoming chapter and our experience will be comparable to the Krista lewd scene. I'd be happy to be wrong.

Although I think that Teri, as opposed to Venus, can be endowed with a plot value and her scene length imbalance will be fixed. For example: Teri's kinship ties with Meredith could be revealed during a plot twist and this will affect the later chapters outcomes based on RPs with her. They even share a similar appearance so that twist won't look flimsy like an afterthought. But I doubt Philly will perform something like this.

As for Venus, I think I can strengthen your and my frustration by example:
Let's compare Shanlon's number of both lewd and non-lewd scenes with the number of Venus and then take into account the difference between S and V from the story importance point of view. Damn the results are really masochistically frustrating
I hope Philly will revise this flawed approach.


Do you mean occasional non-lewd animations of characters like with Katie at the very beginning or non-character ambient animations related to the city view, buildings, vehicle rides etc.?

It seems like Philly is trying to include more and more side characters,and brings in more and more secondary characters for sex scenes. He preferred to bring back Carli than give some other characters screen Time,as you said,Shanlon is far more important than Venus but gets less lewd and non lewd scenes.Oh,and Chandra was supposed to be a main LI right? but instead seems like Sasha will be getting some scenes again,even though she is a minor character. I mean she's hot,but I'd rather have some more main cast focused update.

 

[AlienEDM]

I don't understand why you people are complaining so much about side characters scene time. The game has right now 9 chapters and probably 5 left, which means we have too much game time ahead yet. In my opinion, Philly is doing a great job and everything is proportional so far.

 

[moskyx]

I might be wrong, but I'm under the teenie-weenie impression that you are slightly dissatisfied with the way the story has been going in the latest chapters? Hey don't sweat it! If you can't bear it anymore it I could take over the translation.

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Now, jokes aside I feel you. I'm considerably underwhelmed myself with how little headway has been made lately; it looks as if Philly put the focus on certain secondary aspects rather than on advancing the plot, as well as I think he's made some debatable decisions concerning certain secondary characters and even Gloria. I'll just keep having faith becauseI know what he's capable of.

I'm still enjoying the game and have high hopes for its future so I don't plan on abandon the translation (heck, I'm not even dropping WVM's one even if that game is no longer what I look for)

The main problem with me is that I feel he's been focusing on developing certain skills and techniques rather than on delivering substantial, meaty updates, while requiring a time between updates that is IMHO is not reflected on the final product that we've been getting for the past year or so. Since Henry allegedly died, I think the story's "interlude" or transition has been dragged out longer than I personally would like. At first the release on Steam justified what happened, but the latest update wasn't influenced by Steam any longer. It's not worrying considering how reliable and trustworthy a dev Philly is, but it's nonetheless frustrating and it must be said if someone thinks so.

Also some additional thoughts on the SEX scenes:
I could ask for less unnecessary cinematic scenes and more sex scenes and animations, but that's my personal preference and I wouldn't want it to seem like I'm trying to impose myself. I would say however that since we only get 3 scenes on average per update, I'd deem it more satisfying to stop involving chicks no one gives a fuck about or whom we haven't even seen before (last update for example), and instead deliver more scenes with the girls we really care for.
The scene with Shanlon and Teri was outrageously long, and half of it could have been devoted to another scene with another girl; sex with Venus is tiresome and boring, enough of that please; dream sex with Gloria was... weird. Not what I would have liked for her, however important their dream connection clearly is.

Sorry, I needed it off my chest. I'd been holding it for a long time.

Shanlon and Teri scen was a big turn off for me. Not only it was way longer and kinkier than I usually enjoy (which is not important) but also it was inserted in a weird moment of the story. Our MC has just recovered after spending 5 days out and he just walks into the longest sex marathon of the whole game, all while he's (supposedly) looking desperately for missing Gloria. That's why in my canon playthrough he just ask Shanlon about the info, it just doesn't make sense for me to do anything else at that point (and of course not what he ends up doing if he agrees to stay).

In book 1, I got the feeling that lewd scenes where really linked and even subordinated to main story developments (except maybe Chandra's, as her 2nd and 3rd scenes also took place at weird moments), but that's not the case in those last chapters -at least I'm feeling that way. First, Shanlon gives us some apparently important data but somehow after 2 days we haven't still found a moment to take a look at it (although we can fuck Teri and herself, then Ellen/Katie and even Venus before going to the Pit and then also Abby after rescuing Gloria). The whole Pit thing being just a club and its boss releasing her so easily was a bit of a let down after so much hype (I get it had to be an easy move in order to keep the story going, but still), and Meredith's solo were... odd to say the least. Then we got the mech hunt rightly after (so we still can't look at Shanlon's data) and the whole dreaming sequences which not only were weird as almost any dream scene in a lewd game (at least here we have the link between Gloria and MC to give them some deeper meaning), but also its aftermaths felt lacking and plain, as ename144 has explained several times. And I'm not going to repeat again how I feel about Sasha. So yeah, I'm really hoping things finally speed up and pieces start to fit in soon enough. I also trust in Philly's abilities but I'm currently not as in love with the game as I was during book 1.

About Venus, I really like her as character, she's even interesting in her own way especially if Gloria beheaded her, but yeah, right now her scenes doesn't add anything else than yet another pointless lewd scene to pass some time

 

[beef-devourer]

I don't understand why you people are complaining so much about side characters scene time. The game has right now 9 chapters and probably 5 left, which means we have too much game time ahead yet. In my opinion, Philly is doing a great job and everything is proportional so far.

Well, me and mr.AwesomeGameTaste support Philly on Patreon so we have the moral right to whine and complain
Moreover we do it peacefully and strive to substantiate our concerns. It doesn't mean we are bitter haters, no we enjoy CoBD and just don't want our VN Nr.1/2/3 to degrade into a generic fuckfest framed with an inconsistent filler story.

In all honestly I don't find Katie's lewd scene number, given her significance for the story and the overall screen time, to be fairly proportionate compared to Venus' number: 3 full scope lewd scenes + 1 prelude versus 5 ones with Venus including that Victoria surrogate performance imagined. To say nothing of Gloria, but her situation at least can be justified.

The same is true of Shanlon: throughout the entire novel we meet her 5 times and have 2 short sightings during a TV broadcast and the following vehicle phone call in Chapter 5, whereas, as I said before, we have 5 lewd scenes with Venus. I don't even describe that Jake inexplicably neglects the significance of Shanlon's help in his investigation like moskyx briefly did it in the previous post.

When a character's story value, which is quite high, heavily deviates from this character's screen time and status while too much effort is put into lewd scenes with minor characters - this kinda spoils the experience and gives rise for concern. Accordingly I totally approved of Chandra's promotion up to a primary LI, even though she isn't my personal fav, because her status finally started to match her actual importance for the story. But not all characters are that lucky.

 

[mr.AwesomeGameTaste]

I don't understand why you people are complaining so much about side characters scene time. The game has right now 9 chapters and probably 5 left, which means we have too much game time ahead yet. In my opinion, Philly is doing a great job and everything is proportional so far.

You can love something and still see the flaws where they are. COBD is probably my favorite and I'd be the first to defend Philly when someone is talking shit but there is nothing wrong with minor criticism of certain aspects of the game.

 

[AlienEDM]

Well, me and mr.AwesomeGameTaste support Philly on Patreon so we have the moral right to whine and complain
Moreover we do it peacefully and strive to substantiate our concerns. It doesn't mean we are bitter haters, no we enjoy CoBD and just don't want our VN Nr.1/2/3 to degrade into a generic fuckfest framed with an inconsistent filler story.

In all honestly I don't find Katie's lewd scene number, given her significance for the story and the overall screen time, to be fairly proportionate compared to Venus' number: 3 full scope lewd scenes + 1 prelude versus 5 ones with Venus including that Victoria surrogate performance imagined. To say nothing of Gloria, but her situation at least can be justified.

The same is true of Shanlon: throughout the entire novel we meet her 5 times and have 2 short sightings during a TV broadcast and the following vehicle phone call in Chapter 5, whereas, as I said before, we have 5 lewd scenes with Venus. I don't even describe that Jake inexplicably neglects the significance of Shanlon's help in his investigation like moskyx briefly did it in the previous post.

When a character's story value, which is quite high, heavily deviates from this character's screen time and status while too much effort is put into lewd scenes with minor characters - this kinda spoils the experience and gives rise for concern. Accordingly I totally approved of Chandra's promotion up to a primary LI, even though she isn't my personal fav, because her status finally started to match her actual importance for the story. But not all characters are that lucky.

You can love something and still see the flaws where they are. COBD is probably my favorite and I'd be the first to defend Philly when someone is talking shit but there is nothing wrong with minor criticism of certain aspects of the game.

Well, don't get me wrong, I'm just giving my honest opinion on how I see the game project itself. I don't intend to offend anyone with my opinion, but I believe the game's plot needs to flow into other scripting branches, because if it flow just with the main characters and if it has scenes just with the main girls, it definitely will get pretty boring soon.

We're all friends here on this forum, so I hope you guys don't take offense at what I'm going to say: If you're supporting Philly on Patreon, I believe you should give feedback on this issue there on the patreon platform, so he can put the game up to your liking. That's my honest opinion. No resentment.

 

[mr.AwesomeGameTaste]

Well, don't get me wrong, I'm just giving my honest opinion on how I see the game project itself. I don't intend to offend anyone with my opinion, but I believe the game's plot needs to flow into other scripting branches, because if it flow just with the main characters and if it has scenes just with the main girls, it definitely will get pretty boring soon.

We're all friends here on this forum, so I hope you guys don't take offense at what I'm going to say: If you're supporting Philly on Patreon, I believe you should give feedback on this issue there on the patreon platform, so he can put the game up to your liking. That's my honest opinion. No resentment.

of course. I never mean any of my comments as an insult or being pretentious and didn't take yours as one as well.Just wanted to point out that I'm not just whining about Philly's work,but presenting my point of view,which might be wrong for others,I complain about Chandra's screen time,but since she's my fav,I'm biased and maybe she got what she deserves despite my opinion that she's not having enough.That's why I'm commenting here to express my opinion instead of bothering Philly on Patreon,cause I believe in his vision and that it's gonna come together at the end,even if some characters I personally like will not have as much time as I'd like for them to have.

 

[Aristos]

I'm really proud of being a fan of this game. The average civility of people following this thread has nothing to do with what you can find in other places

I dare to revise this point: the scene with Shanlon was not really long, keeping in mind it was just her second scene.

The scene with Teri, a new chick, was long indeed. So long that we can lose the lewd action with Shanlon.
[...]

Although I think that Teri, as opposed to Venus, can be endowed with a plot value and her scene length imbalance will be fixed. For example: Teri's kinship ties with Meredith could be revealed during a plot twist and this will affect the later chapters outcomes based on RPs with her. They even share a similar appearance so that twist won't look flimsy like an afterthought. But I doubt Philly will perform something like this.

Well, I understand what your saying, but I see that scene with them as a whole. Shanlon is watching and she joins in at some point if you make a couple correct choices. So for me everything starts the moment you go to that room with Teri, and ends with the MC cumming with both girls by his side. And it was long, toooooooo long. So much so that I remember someone (probably MrFriendly ?) writing right after playing that update something along the lines of "if you're not on Shanlon's route there isn't much for you".
Hey, if Teri's hypothetical kinship with Bitchface brings along a threesome with her cute hypothetical cousin I'm all in! Even though I give -100 fucks about that chick TBH.

As for Venus, I think I can strengthen your and my frustration by example:
Let's compare Shanlon's number of both lewd and non-lewd scenes with the number of Venus and then take into account the difference between S and V from the story importance point of view. Damn the results are really masochistically frustrating
I hope Philly will revise this flawed approach.

Exactly. Venus was a nice introduction early in the game, when sex with some of the main LI's was still precipitated. But at far as sex scenes go, at this stage she's just unnecessary and a pain.

Do you mean occasional non-lewd animations of characters like with Katie at the very beginning or non-character ambient animations related to the city view, buildings, vehicle rides etc.?

Yeah, occasional non-lewd animations, landscape pan shots, ... that stuff. They're amazing, but I suspect they affect development times more than I would personally like.
In the beginning of the game they were great, just the right number and reserved for special occasions. For instance, I still remember that sequence when the MC drives to face Gloria and Henry for the first time. It was superbly well made.

Shanlon and Teri scen was a big turn off for me. Not only it was way longer and kinkier than I usually enjoy (which is not important) but also it was inserted in a weird moment of the story. Our MC has just recovered after spending 5 days out and he just walks into the longest sex marathon of the whole game, all while he's (supposedly) looking desperately for missing Gloria. That's why in my canon playthrough he just ask Shanlon about the info, it just doesn't make sense for me to do anything else at that point (and of course not what he ends up doing if he agrees to stay).

In book 1, I got the feeling that lewd scenes where really linked and even subordinated to main story developments (except maybe Chandra's, as her 2nd and 3rd scenes also took place at weird moments), but that's not the case in those last chapters -at least I'm feeling that way. First, Shanlon gives us some apparently important data but somehow after 2 days we haven't still found a moment to take a look at it (although we can fuck Teri and herself, then Ellen/Katie and even Venus before going to the Pit and then also Abby after rescuing Gloria). The whole Pit thing being just a club and its boss releasing her so easily was a bit of a let down after so much hype (I get it had to be an easy move in order to keep the story going, but still), and Meredith's solo were... odd to say the least. Then we got the mech hunt rightly after (so we still can't look at Shanlon's data) and the whole dreaming sequences which not only were weird as almost any dream scene in a lewd game (at least here we have the link between Gloria and MC to give them some deeper meaning), but also its aftermaths felt lacking and plain, as ename144 has explained several times. And I'm not going to repeat again how I feel about Sasha. So yeah, I'm really hoping things finally speed up and pieces start to fit in soon enough. I also trust in Philly's abilities but I'm currently not as in love with the game as I was during book 1.

About Venus, I really like her as character, she's even interesting in her own way especially if Gloria beheaded her, but yeah, right now her scenes doesn't add anything else than yet another pointless lewd scene to pass some time

I subscribe to everything you wrote except for the complaint about how kinky Shanlon's scene was.
I'm usually not into that stuff either, and I avoid it on my "normal" paths (Katie solo, Ellen solo, Victoria love solo, Ellen+Victoria love, "harem" with all+decent MC), but I keep a special spellbound path where I'm a fucking asshole with everyone and Shanlon fits right into it

You can love something and still see the flaws where they are. COBD is probably my favorite and I'd be the first to defend Philly when someone is talking shit but there is nothing wrong with minor criticism of certain aspects of the game.

100% agree.
CoBD was my favourite game since it was released until the latest BaDIK's updates. Now the orders would be reversed: BaDIK comes first, followed by CoBD.
I'm aware of the gripes about BaDIK expressed by many people; I even share some myself. But all in all it's a colossal project and a magnificent game, and if I'm to believe DPC works on his own, the amount of content and the quality he always puts out are just inconceivable.

 

[beef-devourer]

Some trivial thinking of the DA characters reincarnations in CoBD:

Gloria = Judy
A daughter figure to protect who can fall in love with Jake(s), inclined to unconscious provocative behavior towards Jake(s).

Chandra = Christina
A naughty little minx full of hidden anxieties due to her family issues, seems superficial but it's not that simple with her.

Victoria = Carli + Stella + Lynn
A sort of VIP prostitute in substance like Carli with distinctions in form as V doesn't fuck for money and serves as a SOCOM asset that tremendously "accelerates" a pace of negotiations and interrogations for Baynard's gain, willing to immediately get laid with Jake due to external interference in her mind like Stella, has exquisite manners and style of dress like Lynn.

Shanlon = Dragon + Lynn
Stuck up and short-tempered, at first sight she gives a false impression of a one-dimensional yahoo, contrary to Dragon she stands on Jake's side since their first encounter, she shares similar tastes in outfits and comparable philosophy of life with Lynn.

Ellen - shares some traits with Dragon but no more than that.

UPDATE:
Abby = Mido
A defenseless victim (for different reasons though) and fragile inside, a hostage of life circumstance she is unable to solve herself.

 

[AlienEDM]

Some trivial thinking of the DA characters reincarnations in CoBD:

Gloria = Judy
A daughter figure to protect who can fall in love with Jake(s), inclined to unconscious provocative behavior towards Jake(s).

Chandra = Christina
A naughty little minx full of hidden anxieties due to her family issues, seems superficial but it's not that simple with her.

Victoria = Carli + Stella + Lynn
A sort of VIP prostitute in substance like Carli with distinctions in form as V doesn't fuck for money and serves as a SOCOM asset that tremendously "accelerates" a pace of negotiations and interrogations for Baynard's gain, willing to immediately get laid with Jake due to external interference in her mind like Stella, has exquisite manners and style of dress like Lynn.

Shanlon = Dragon + Lynn
Stuck up and short-tempered, at first sight she gives a false impression of a one-dimensional yahoo, contrary to Dragon she stands on Jake's side since their first encounter, she shares similar tastes in outfits and comparable philosophy of life with Lynn.

Ellen - shares some traits with Dragon but no more than that.

Good one! I was thinking on create this comparison myself. You forget about Mido, Mrs Turner, Kira and Abby, though. I think Shanlon is more like Mrs Turner and Kira.

 

[AlienEDM]

Mrs Turner: Keep filming, Kira. I'm going to send this video to a called bitch Shanlon, to show her how to make things become really nasty.
Kira: Yes, ma'am!

Spoiler: Mrs Turner and Kira

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Shanlon: Oh, is that what you call "become really nasty", old hag? I see that you still have to much to learn yet. Don't you agree, Teri?
Teri: Yes! Ahh!

Spoiler: Shanlon and Teri

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[beef-devourer]

Good one! I was thinking on create this comparision myself. You forget to about Mido, Mrs Parker, Kira and Abby, though. I think Shanlon is more like Mrs Parker and Kira.

Possibly you meant M[r]s Turner - [ex]wife of bad guys' associate that gets relentlessly cuckolded?
Yet she is a sort of easter egg reference to the Dreams of Desire heroine. I wish there were [more] easter eggs in CoBD. Philly no longer roasts other adult VNs.

You are probably right about Mrs Turner's and Shanlon's personality interception, as for Kira why do you think they are soulmates to some extent?

As for Mido, I didn't attribute her to Ellen as I don't find their belonging to the same race as a sufficient reason to consider a reincarnation. I only judged by personality and attitude. But you gave me food for thought:

Abby = Mido
A defenseless victim (for different reasons though) and fragile inside, a hostage of life circumstance she is unable to solve herself.

 

[AlienEDM]

Possibly you meant M[r]s Turner

Yeah! Mrs Turner. I am sorry for my mistake! I have a lot of names in my head, so, I mistake sometimes. Correcting now...

 

[AlienEDM]

You are probably right about Mrs Turner's and Shanlon's personality interception, as for Kira why do you think they are soulmates to some extent?

Because both Kira and Shanlon play dirty to get what they want... and both of them are nasty bitches(literally)! I just wonder if Philly will possible put Shanlon in the same BDSM submissive bitch position as Kira was in DA?

Spoiler: Kira

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[beef-devourer]

Yeah! Mrs Turner. I am sorry for my mistake! I has a lot of names in my head, so, I mistake sometimes. Correcting now...

Damn, reading your post I just realized I had misinformed you guys in my post above about a number of Shanlon's appearances. In fact it's 5+3 and not 5+2 - I missed out her canon appearance in the Donut adventure comics.

Because both Kira and Shanlon play dirty to get what they want... and both of them are nasty bitches(literally)!

Well, I wouldn't say she plays dirty with Jake at least, given that she is actually at risk while helping him, a wanted rogue ghost, behind Alexis' and Baynard's back. Her offerings look like a fair deal, whereas Kira tries to outsmart Jake to his detriment.
Also Shanlon isn't directly affiliated with any evil circle and stays relatively independent from both Alexis and Baynard as opposed to Kira who is an awakenings member. Although I agree that she rather plays dirty with Teri. But it's their inner relationship mess and I prefer not to sort a typical girl stuff out

Regarding the brutal sex addiction, Kira doesn't show a sign that she really enjoys getting fucked by that villain Matlock. She doesn't immerse in the action and seems to pretend only. Her only nasty deeds in my terms are her association with and membership in the awakenings. In other respects she looks like an ordinary girl.

I guess Mark Takagi didn't forgive Shanlon for humiliation and extremely bad attitude towards Katie and put her to his lowest tier

 

[Deleted member 3313072]

Damn, reading your post I just realized I had misinformed you guys in my post above about a number of Shanlon's appearances. In fact it's 5+3 and not 5+2 - I missed out her canon appearance in the Donut adventure comics.


Well, I wouldn't say she plays dirty with Jake at least, given that she is actually at risk while helping him, a wanted rogue ghost, behind Alexis' and Baynard's back. Her offerings look like a fair deal, whereas Kira tries to outsmart Jake to his detriment.
Also Shanlon isn't directly affiliated with any evil circle and stays relatively independent from both Alexis and Baynard as opposed to Kira who is an awakenings member. Although I agree that she rather plays dirty with Teri. But it's their inner relationship mess and I prefer not to sort a typical girl stuff out

Regarding the brutal sex addiction, Kira doesn't show a sign that she really enjoys getting fucked by that villain Matlock. She doesn't immerse in the action and seems to pretend only. Her only nasty deeds in my terms are her association with and membership in the awakenings. In other respects she looks like an ordinary girl.

I guess Mark Takagi didn't forgive Shanlon for humiliation and extremely bad attitude towards Katie and put her to his lowest tier

I just hate her. I hated her since Day 1, but yes, her treatment of my beautiful Katie certainly didn't help her any. Not my kind of character anyway, just like Meredith. Those sorts of people just nauseate me to the core; rich, pompous, arrogant, think they can do or say whatever they want. Fuck that! I'm not a douchebag in real life but if I was, and I played this game that way, Shanlon would be #1 and everything would be different.

I play like I am I guess. I want the romance, the love, the happy ending, and I do that with all the VNs I play. If Katie wasn't in the game, then it'd be Ellen.

 

[whichone]

Those sorts of people just nauseate me to the core; rich, pompous, arrogant, think they can do or say whatever they want.

Agreed, but what better form of retribution for them being such C U Next Tuesdays, than to have them completely at your whim?
Rich, pompous & arrogant, but desperately craving you.
You can do with them, as you please. Deprive them, or degrade them, if it suits you.
I think that's quite suitable.

It's certainly not romantic, but it is poetic justice.

 

[Deleted member 3313072]

Agreed, but what better form of retribution for them being such C U Next Tuesdays, than to have them completely at your whim?
Rich, pompous & arrogant, but desperately craving you.
You can do with them, as you please. Deprive them, or degrade them, if it suits you.
I think that's quite suitable.

It's certainly not romantic, but it is poetic justice.

Nope. I'd much rather have a loving, caring Katie by my side than some she-bitch from the spawning dens of hell.