Come on devs :/

[polywog]

Low self esteem? Really? You are the one portraying yourself as a old dinosaur with just about every tool skill under the sun. Sorry if I don't take people on the internet at face value, no one should. If you don't want people to address you as "old", maybe you shouldn't make such a big deal about it yourself either? idk.

Team Edward? Now this was funny, I had no idea what you was on about, so I had to google, it and tbh, it sounds like you know a lot more about the Twilight fandom etc than I ever will.

My first books outside of school, idk. My first brush with any kind of books/series that did enthrall and immersed in, is probably a book series about "Morgan Kane", which I started read about when I was around 12 or so. Immersion is nothing more than get involved/engaged in the story.

I was born before "boomers" horses were more common than automobiles, met and worked with a few stars of westerns. Address me as old all you want, the truth never hurt anyone. Do the math and try to imagine what you could do with that many hours of lifetime. I wasn't raised by a shoemaker, intended to take over the family business. I knew from the start that I would have to make my own way in the world. Started my first business when I was 11, and hundreds of others businesses and partnerships in more than half a century since, and I'm far from retiring. No offense if you're a shoemaker, when Bill Bowerman made a pair of shoes on a waffle Iron, I was impressed, but doing one thing your whole life would be way too boring. I like variety, and I've done a lot of things. I've only mentioned a fraction of the skills i've picked up in a lifetime. Learning electronics, building my own computer from scratch, including my own processors. Were you aware that there were 64bit computers, years before apple and others made 8bit machines? It's a very long list, but I don't want to brag.

Shortly after I joined F95zone, muttdoggy messaged me saying something to the effect of "You're obviously a brilliant guy, why are you wasting your time trolling dummies in a dump like this. I said I'm not trolling, I'm trying to encourage more people to make games, they aren't dummies, and this isn't a dump, it has some real potential. Other moderators have messaged, I introduced myself, at that time there were 10 of my games on here almost 2 years ago, I don't want a developer badge, i'm incognito here, my personal opinions are separate, unrelated and do not reflect the opinions of the teams that I work with. I want to be neutral, so I don't do reviews of any games, and I don't promote my games here. I do give likes to the games I've played or downloaded. I've defended some devs, from attacks that they didn't deserve, and called out a dev or two for telling outright lies about there being "no NTR in my game" when it was a sausagefest.
If people choose not to believe me, I don't care. If you learned something from me pay it forward, don't even thank me.
I want to see 50,000 games on this site. Get busy, team up, and make some games.

I did not read twilight, but two of my children did. They are all adults, capable of making their own choices, even if I don't approve.

 

[viewfinderlife]

I didn't say it was new, I said it wasn't popular before. You say it's common based on your experience, that I do not argue.
But how many examples can you give of books prior to the 1990s which compelled you to self-insert? Did you play for team Edward perhaps?

Captivating, enchanting, mesmerizing, these are redeemable, but not immersion... to baptize.
Make your world believable, even if it's fantasy. As realistic, or as mystical as you wish. But for god's sake, for the humanity, let us put and end to immersion.

That is literally any book you read that is a a work of fiction. maybe I'm misunderstanding how literal your use of compel means in regards to the reader, but if you don't generally self insert into the main character or characters you're doing yourself a disservice as the reader. You are not allowing yourself to experience the world or situations, or relationships, etc as the author did when they wrote it (a good author). So books before 1990? Thousands.

And don't take this as some personal sleight or anything, I'm just addressing the question you asked with some perspective. Everything is subjective reality, but not all opinions are challenges or attacks either, just wanted to be clear my intentions are taken properly.

 

[polywog]

That is literally any book you read that is a a work of fiction. maybe I'm misunderstanding how literal your use of compel means in regards to the reader, but if you don't generally self insert into the main character or characters you're doing yourself a disservice as the reader. You are not allowing yourself to experience the world or situations, or relationships, etc as the author did when they wrote it (a good author). So books before 1990? Thousands.

And don't take this as some personal sleight or anything, I'm just addressing the question you asked with some perspective. Everything is subjective reality, but not all opinions are challenges or attacks either, just wanted to be clear my intentions are taken properly.

The term immersive is relatively new in the history of writing. MW cites it's first usage in 1929 (see attached)
I know what the word means, or once meant, but as you can see that is changing.
As you know, words evolve based on their usage. Today's usage of the word, especially when referring to games has shifted to
almost exclusively talking about 1st person, POV, and VR
further down the page, another example usage of immersive talking about a wine tasting experience being immersive.



The movie "Being John Malkovich" is an example of why self-inserting doesn't work.

John is trying to live his life, and strangers go through a portal self-inserting into his head
they interfere with his life and try to control the story
he gets mad and says "it's my life"

a game dev makes a game... it's their story (period)
people who self insert want to dictate the story. countless posts telling the dev how they should change the story of their life.

so my game starts out... girlfriend puts her career first, wants to sleep with her boss to get a promotion
self insert players scream NTR!! no it's not NTR we just broke up, she moved out, you didn't even see the guy
self insert players "loved her" and think I should have stayed with her. wut?
with her gone i'm now free to date every girl in town.
self insert players scream about my new gf being less attractive.
she's not my gf it was just a sleepover, she doesn't have a drawer, gfs get a dresser drawer
next girl is hot but not so bright.
self insert players are all yeah!!!
next girl is smart, not a 10
self insert players again liked the other girl better. just looking at the menu, it's not time to order yet
this goes on for 6 more girls. tons of hate mail for my taste in women
time passes in the game, and as in life women don't wait around while you decide. they move on with their lives.
self insert players scream NTR again. yes it's NTR that's why the game is tagged NTR. if you wanted that girl you should have made different choices. start over, or use a savegame
self insert players scream i don't want her now, she's used goods (can't erase what has been seen)

self inserters are nuts
they will never be happy with your game. don't encourage them

 

[Zippity]

That is literally any book you read that is a a work of fiction. maybe I'm misunderstanding how literal your use of compel means in regards to the reader, but if you don't generally self insert into the main character or characters you're doing yourself a disservice as the reader. You are not allowing yourself to experience the world or situations, or relationships, etc as the author did when they wrote it (a good author). So books before 1990? Thousands.

And don't take this as some personal sleight or anything, I'm just addressing the question you asked with some perspective. Everything is subjective reality, but not all opinions are challenges or attacks either, just wanted to be clear my intentions are taken properly.

The concept of self-inserting into a character isn't exactly a necessary component of reading Fiction or Non-Fiction... It will ALWAYS depend on how well the story is told, and the style of how it is told... It's the feeling of immersion overall, not necessarily self-inserting or relating to a particular character (protagonist or otherwise), that most readers are really looking for... Sure, relatability helps sometimes, but I've read plenty of books where I didn't relate (or self-insert) to any of the characters, yet still felt immersed in the story, both emotionally and mentally... It's the skill and talent of the writer/author to tell a story that compels the reader to keep reading, using various methods that appeal to varying folks... And since everyone is different, different people will be compelled by different things... And together with both story immersion and compelling content, you increase your chances of keeping a reader hooked and wanting to continue reading your stories...

Problem in this niche market, where any story elements are used in an Erotic/Adult Visual Novel and/or Game, is that a majority of writers are not skilled enough or talented enough to write good stories... While simultaneously keeping those erotic themes/events mixed into the story, in a way, that feels like a natural aspect of the story telling... Typically most writers in these things, instead, use the story elements as an excuse for the product rather then being the driving force... They come up with corny, stereotyped, and/or unoriginal stories/characters that just take you from one sex themed encounter to the next... They are incapable of standing on their own as a story, and tend to be uninteresting and/or are meaningless filler text...

Some developers have great story concepts and ideas in their heads, but just lack the necessary skill/talent to put it into words correctly... It will sound great in their heads, and they will probably understand their own writing just fine... But the moment the general public gets ahold of it, the flaws are noticed, experienced, and sometimes rejected... It's expected that the writer/author has all the information, as well as perfect insight into the story itself, but it's communicating those same thoughts and feelings, in the right way, to various readers, that is the biggest challenge for any writer (regardless of industry)... And that is where skill and talent come into play... Without them, the story will most likely end up suffering, failing to immerse the reader/s, and/or fail to get the intended results the writer was hoping for...

It's a tricky thing for most writers to do in this market... And it will heavily depend on the developers goals for the product as well...

Zip